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NEC TG-16/TE/TurboDuo => TG-16/TE/TurboDuo Discussion => Topic started by: BigusSchmuck on November 01, 2011, 06:07:43 PM
Title: So whats the deal with the arcade card?
Post by: BigusSchmuck on November 01, 2011, 06:07:43 PM
Curious, I know it was made for Neo Geo ports and the ever so awesome Sapphire, but whats the story behind it? Why did NEC make so few games for it and what made them stop developing more games like Sapphire? Yeah I know they had another system (PC-FX), but come on, this thing could have easily competed with the likes of the next gen consoles at the time! Makes one wonder...
Title: Re: So whats the deal with the arcade card?
Post by: nat on November 01, 2011, 06:45:22 PM
Well, it had three or four times (or five or six times if you count the Super CD/Arcade CD hybrids) as many games as one of NEC's bona fide consoles (the SuperGrafx), so "few" is certainly subjective.
But I think you answered your own question; they had the PC-FX. The Duo was getting phased out in 1995/1996.
Title: Re: So whats the deal with the arcade card?
Post by: SignOfZeta on November 01, 2011, 08:02:38 PM
The AC didn't really take off because it was expensive and it was the end of the PCE's life. By the time it was released the user base had been fragmented from so many expensive-ass upgrades that only the most hardcore remained. Most of the good games for it were Neo stuff, and with the Neo CD out...they didn't make much sense.
And then there was the FX and the Saturn. And the fact that a lot of the famous PCE-era devs were going out of business.
The good/bad/weird news is that as pathetic as the AC selection was, it's still better than the FX library. :(
So...Super CD is where its at, basically.
Title: Re: So whats the deal with the arcade card?
Post by: thesteve on November 01, 2011, 08:23:39 PM
the fx has a few great games, but i agree, the acd has at least as many great games
Title: Re: So whats the deal with the arcade card?
Post by: T2KFreeker on November 01, 2011, 08:42:52 PM
All I know is that I thought Strider and Art of Fighting was cool as Hell when it came out. Most people hated Strider, but I liked it.
Title: Re: So whats the deal with the arcade card?
Post by: SignOfZeta on November 01, 2011, 09:39:54 PM
Yeah, I was extremely impressed with AoF. These days you can get better ports of all the Neo games somewhere else, probably on PS2. Hell, you can get the actual MVS carts for most of these games for less than $15.
Title: Re: So whats the deal with the arcade card?
Post by: Edmond Dantes on November 01, 2011, 10:16:40 PM
Yeah, all of SNK's major fighting games are on the PS2 as part of various "anthologies" and "battle archives."
I still bought Garou Densetsu 2 for my PC-E though just because I don't always have the PS2 hooked up, and its great to have another version of a game you're gonna play that much. Which is also why I own three different ports of Street Fighter II Champion Edition.
Getting back to the topic, I think the deal with the arcade card was NEC was trying to make their console able to compete, spec-wise, with the Super Famicom which was the reigning champion at the time. And perhaps it simply didn't work as well as expected, which is why they pushed the PC-FX instead... which also didn't perform as expected.
Title: Re: So whats the deal with the arcade card?
Post by: thesteve on November 02, 2011, 05:16:03 AM
games like zenki prove the FX is quite capable of producing arcade quality games. we just need more for it. saphire proved the arcade card as well
Title: Re: So whats the deal with the arcade card?
Post by: SignOfZeta on November 02, 2011, 06:18:30 AM
The FX hardware might have been a bit lopsided, but there was nothing really wrong with it. It easily could have done something like Sapphire or Fatal Fury Special or Kaze Kiri or Rondo, it just didn't.
All Zenki proves is how all beat-em-ups pale in comparison to the Kunio series.
Title: Re: So whats the deal with the arcade card?
Post by: thesteve on November 02, 2011, 07:29:48 AM
ok i dont know Kunio. as to the genre i not a big fan of beat-em-up's. i was however impressed with how fluidly the animations and game play went together, and the use of paralax.
Title: Re: So whats the deal with the arcade card?
Post by: T2KFreeker on November 02, 2011, 08:01:40 AM
Hmm, I had forgotten that Fatal Fury 2 was released on the Arcade Card. I still need to see that one in action.
Title: Re: So whats the deal with the arcade card?
Post by: Arkhan on November 02, 2011, 08:18:52 AM
Hmm, I had forgotten that Fatal Fury 2 was released on the Arcade Card. I still need to see that one in action.
I could make a video.
I have it, but it would be a crappy video. AKA: me holding a digital camera and hitting record while I play one handed.
Well, I could at least see it, so yeah, that would be really cool.
Title: Re: So whats the deal with the arcade card?
Post by: Necromancer on November 02, 2011, 12:00:09 PM
There's always .
Title: Re: So whats the deal with the arcade card?
Post by: Joe Redifer on November 02, 2011, 12:31:01 PM
I wish they would have focused on the Arcade CD instead of the PC FX. More people would have upgraded if they kept putting good games on there, but nobody was going to buy a PC FX because it didn't have any good games. I'd buy a SuperGrafx before I'd consider a PC FX. At least the SuperGrafx has games I want to play and isn't full of FMV anime garbage. The PC FX is a console that had appeal only to hardcore anime geeks in Japan. It never had a chance. Dumb ol' NEC (or whoever).
Title: Re: So whats the deal with the arcade card?
Post by: c0ldb33r on November 02, 2011, 02:24:00 PM
I have it, but it would be a crappy video. AKA: me holding a digital camera and hitting record while I play one handed.
Man get ahold of yourself. Yeah, Mai is hot but it's just a videogame!
DAMN!!!
Nice to see you c0ldb33r!
Title: Re: So whats the deal with the arcade card?
Post by: T2KFreeker on November 02, 2011, 04:58:57 PM
Oh wait, I just saw that World Heroes 2 was on the Arcade Card as well? What the Hell? Was it good? I'd play that all day!
Title: Re: So whats the deal with the arcade card?
Post by: Edmond Dantes on November 02, 2011, 05:11:20 PM
I dunno about World Heroes, but I'm able to compare Fatal Fury 2 to the version on the Playstation 2's Battle Archives release.
The only difference so far is that the shadows flicker and there are load times. Oh, and you have to play with a PC Engine controller. That's it. It seems to be a solid port.
Title: Re: So whats the deal with the arcade card?
Post by: SignOfZeta on November 02, 2011, 05:33:53 PM
I wish they would have focused on the Arcade CD instead of the PC FX. More people would have upgraded if they kept putting good games on there, but nobody was going to buy a PC FX because it didn't have any good games. I'd buy a SuperGrafx before I'd consider a PC FX. At least the SuperGrafx has games I want to play and isn't full of FMV anime garbage. The PC FX is a console that had appeal only to hardcore anime geeks in Japan. It never had a chance. Dumb ol' NEC (or whoever).
I've gotten to the point where I can't even tell if you are trolling or not. I think certain sentences in there are and others aren't? I have no idea.
I have it, but it would be a crappy video. AKA: me holding a digital camera and hitting record while I play one handed.
Man get ahold of yourself. Yeah, Mai is hot but it's just a videogame!
I think it was about $120 or so for the Duo, $20 or so more for the Pro. If anyone wanted to play Fatal Fury Special that bad they could just buy the Super Famicom version. At that point basically every gamer in Japan had a SFC, and the SFC actually had enough buttons on the standard controller.
Title: Re: So whats the deal with the arcade card?
Post by: Edmond Dantes on November 02, 2011, 09:56:04 PM
Yeah, but wasn't the Super Famicom port exceedingly bad? In general, The Super Famicom really wasn't a good console for fighting games (save for supposedly having the best home ports of Mortal Kombat 2 and 3, though why you'd even care in that case is a good question).
Though, RPGs are big in Japan, and the SNES had a metric ton of those.
Title: Re: So whats the deal with the arcade card?
Post by: Arkhan on November 03, 2011, 03:38:13 AM
Who says im looking at Mai!?
and, PCE had maor RPGs than the super famicom.
Title: Re: So whats the deal with the arcade card?
Post by: GohanX on November 03, 2011, 06:28:14 AM
Yeah, but wasn't the Super Famicom port exceedingly bad?
The SFC version was a pretty good port, but it was pretty obvious that it was a port to lower quality hardware. From what I've been told the PCE version is damn near arcade perfect, but I haven't played it myself.
Title: Re: So whats the deal with the arcade card?
Post by: PunkicCyborg on November 03, 2011, 07:21:29 AM
I have it, but it would be a crappy video. AKA: me holding a digital camera and hitting record while I play one handed.
couldn't you just set the camera on something?
Title: Re: So whats the deal with the arcade card?
Post by: BigusSchmuck on November 03, 2011, 07:40:40 AM
And I thought I was the only one who had a thing for Mai. ^^ Anyway, kind of curious now which looks better, pc engine fx games or arcade card games?
Title: Re: So whats the deal with the arcade card?
Post by: geise on November 03, 2011, 07:44:15 AM
World Heros 2 is so close to the neo geo it's kinda scary. They did an awesome job with the Neo Geo ports. It would've been nice if the arcade card received more love by Konami or Capcom. Some CPS1 ports would've been quite nice. I know Keranu could give two shits though since it's Capcom. :lol:
Title: Re: So whats the deal with the arcade card?
Post by: c0ldb33r on November 03, 2011, 08:13:14 AM
I always thought it was neat that they included the zooming in Art of Fighting. They couldn't do it in the Genesis or SNES versions.
Title: Re: So whats the deal with the arcade card?
Post by: Necromancer on November 03, 2011, 08:18:26 AM
I think it was about $120 or so for the Duo, $20 or so more for the Pro.
I know memory wasn't cheap, but was it really that pricey? The 32x had more memory for a similar price, so either Sega priced it knowing they have to sell many games for each 32x just to break even or NEC priced the ACs to turn a tidy profit.
Title: Re: So whats the deal with the arcade card?
Post by: geise on November 03, 2011, 08:30:59 AM
I don't remember there being that big of a price difference backthen. Not by $100 anyways.
Title: Re: So whats the deal with the arcade card?
Post by: T2KFreeker on November 03, 2011, 09:18:58 AM
Yeah, but wasn't the Super Famicom port exceedingly bad?
The SFC version was a pretty good port, but it was pretty obvious that it was a port to lower quality hardware. From what I've been told the PCE version is damn near arcade perfect, but I haven't played it myself.
Actually, the Super Famicom/Super Nes port of Fatal Fury was horrid! It really was about as bad as you could get for a 16bit port. Funny as it was, the CART version of the game for the SNES had load times, the framerate was god awful, and the sound was terrible. The Genesis version actually blew it out of the water. Before anyone really get's in a huff about the Genesis VS SNES argument, realize that this was not the SNES's fault, but rather that Takara really had no clue at the time and didn't utilize the SNES hardware resulting in a terrible port. The sound in the Genesis version isn't the greatest either, but the framerate was much smoother and the characters retained way more of their animation frames. Check it out.
SNES:
Genesis:
Title: Re: So whats the deal with the arcade card?
Post by: SignOfZeta on November 03, 2011, 01:43:21 PM
We're talking about Fatal Fury Special, the third game in the series. Fatal Fury 1 wasn't even made for PCE.
The SFC/SNES version of FFS is fine. It's letterboxed, like almost all 16-bit home ports were, and the sound is really "SNES"; so if you hate that muffled reverb, stay away. IMO it's substantially better than the Sega CD version, which suffered from severally cut animation.
As for the SNES not being a good system for fighters...excluding the Neo Geo, what was better? It was the best system for fighters for some time. The Genesis was by far the worst fighter system of the 16-bit years. The PCE was a fun distraction since it had the original home games like Flash Hiders, Advanced VG, and Asuka. It also had the best Neo Ports, but only for about a year. After that SNK stopped porting to concentrate on promoting the Neo CD, which didn't work, and by then everything was on Saturn.
The SNES had the most up to date home versions of Street Fighter II...except for when SFII' was released on PCE, which became irrelevant once SFII' Turbo came out a month later for 2,800 yen less. It also had Fighter History (two of them), Gundam Wing: Endless Dual, Turtles Tourniment Fighters, the Ranma games (one of the three was actually good) more Neo ports than the other systems, and a bunch of fanboy shite ranging from Mortal Combat to Pretty Fighter.
Title: Re: So whats the deal with the arcade card?
Post by: SignOfZeta on November 03, 2011, 02:05:36 PM
Regarding the price of the AC. Original sale price of the Duo version was ¥12,800, the Pro version was ¥17,800.
For some reference, most PCE games at the time were between ¥4800 and ¥6800. Most SFC games were ¥9,800, a Square RPG like Chrono Trigger was usually ¥12,800.
Back then an American dollar would buy you about 107 yen. Those were the days!
So at the time, straight up, the Duo ver was about $119, the Pro version about $166. Of course it wasn't possible to buy anything from Japan without getting slapped with a huge markup back then, so it would have been more. It wasn't long before they could be had at a discount or for used prices though, so $120 or so for the (much more common) Duo version was about average, from what I remember.
So basically a guy in Japan could buy the SFC version for $100, or a ACD+game+Avenue 6 for around $220. I liked Fatal Fury quite a bit, but I went with the Nintendo version. :)
Title: Re: So whats the deal with the arcade card?
Post by: BigusSchmuck on November 03, 2011, 02:23:45 PM
Quote
So basically a guy in Japan could buy the SFC version for $100, or a ACD+game+Avenue 6 for around $220. I liked Fatal Fury quite a bit, but I went with the Nintendo version
Still cheaper than buying a Neogeo and the game at the time. I remember Fatal Fury 1 for the snes, pretty terrible considering only player 2 can play as the bosses and only in vs mode. I wonder what the arcade card into looks like, guess I will find out when I get it...
Title: Re: So whats the deal with the arcade card?
Post by: Edmond Dantes on November 03, 2011, 03:57:14 PM
So basically a guy in Japan could buy the SFC version for $100, or a ACD+game+Avenue 6 for around $220. I liked Fatal Fury quite a bit, but I went with the Nintendo version
Still cheaper than buying a Neogeo and the game at the time. I remember Fatal Fury 1 for the snes, pretty terrible considering only player 2 can play as the bosses and only in vs mode.
Wasn't that how the Neo version worked? I remember you could only play as the three bros in one player mode. You could play two players and team up against a boss. That part was rad.
Now that I think about it, I really need to buy that MVS cart. It had the crazy arm wrestling thing in it too.
Title: Re: So whats the deal with the arcade card?
Post by: BigusSchmuck on November 03, 2011, 05:46:23 PM
Quote
Wasn't that how the Neo version worked? I remember you could only play as the three bros in one player mode. You could play two players and team up against a boss. That part was rad.
Now that I think about it, I really need to buy that MVS cart. It had the crazy arm wrestling thing in it too.
No took that out in the snes version, what I meant to say in vs mode, player 1 can be the 3 main characters only and player 2 can be the bosses. No teaming up, I was one of those unfortunates to own the old snes cart.... Anyway to get back on topic, anyone thought of doing some homebrew stuff with the arcade card? Might be interesting to see what people could come up with...
Title: Re: So whats the deal with the arcade card?
Post by: Edmond Dantes on November 04, 2011, 11:33:57 AM
The arm wrestling bonus rounds are in the PS2 version as well, if you don't wanna go through the trouble of getting a consolized MVS.
Title: Re: So whats the deal with the arcade card?
Post by: Liquid Snake on November 04, 2011, 11:37:46 AM
can anyone list complete AC games?
Title: Re: So whats the deal with the arcade card?
Post by: BigusSchmuck on November 04, 2011, 02:01:56 PM
http://www.pcecp.com/index.php?mode=catalog&action=normalsearch and http://www.pcecp.com/index.php?mode=catalog&action=search
Title: Re: So whats the deal with the arcade card?
Post by: SignOfZeta on November 04, 2011, 02:53:59 PM
Curious, I know it was made for Neo Geo ports and the ever so awesome Sapphire, but whats the story behind it? Why did NEC make so few games for it and what made them stop developing more games like Sapphire? Yeah I know they had another system (PC-FX), but come on, this thing could have easily competed with the likes of the next gen consoles at the time! Makes one wonder...
The division of NEC that sold the Duo basically went bankrupt shortly after the Arcade card was released. That is why there were no more games for it. End of story.
Title: Re: So whats the deal with the arcade card?
Post by: SignOfZeta on November 06, 2011, 01:25:25 PM
Curious, I know it was made for Neo Geo ports and the ever so awesome Sapphire, but whats the story behind it? Why did NEC make so few games for it and what made them stop developing more games like Sapphire? Yeah I know they had another system (PC-FX), but come on, this thing could have easily competed with the likes of the next gen consoles at the time! Makes one wonder...
The division of NEC that sold the Duo basically went bankrupt shortly after the Arcade card was released. That is why there were no more games for it. End of story.
No doubt. With all the money they pumped into the KOF '95 port and Sapphire's real-time 3D engine, how could they make a profit?
Seriously, this is not a true statement.
Title: Re: So whats the deal with the arcade card?
Post by: Supremo_Lagarto on November 06, 2011, 02:06:15 PM
Curious, I know it was made for Neo Geo ports and the ever so awesome Sapphire, but whats the story behind it? Why did NEC make so few games for it and what made them stop developing more games like Sapphire? Yeah I know they had another system (PC-FX), but come on, this thing could have easily competed with the likes of the next gen consoles at the time! Makes one wonder...
The division of NEC that sold the Duo basically went bankrupt shortly after the Arcade card was released. That is why there were no more games for it. End of story.
No doubt. With all the money they pumped into the KOF '95 port and Sapphire's real-time 3D engine, how could they make a profit?
Seriously, this is not a true statement.
I didn't say NEC went bankrupt, I said a small DIVISION of NEC (NEC Avenue). The Duo really was discontinued in 1994. Most of those games came out...
...in 1994.
Not a coincidence (companies don't design a lot of games for discontinued systems).
NEC itself is a huge company and has been for decades. They pulled the plug on the console division because it was no longer as profitable as their other divisions.
This is just reality.
Title: Re: So whats the deal with the arcade card?
Post by: SignOfZeta on November 06, 2011, 02:59:53 PM
A division of a company can't go bankrupt, only separate companies. They can be killed off or whatever, but bankruptcy is something that effects the entire company. What division are you talking about exactly?
There were dozens of games released after 1994 and almost none of them are Arcade Card requisite. This is because developers wanted to make any PCE game they released to have maximum compatibility with the existing userbase, and with poor ACD sales it made the most sense to release games as SCDs.
Title: Re: So whats the deal with the arcade card?
Post by: BigusSchmuck on November 06, 2011, 04:12:36 PM
If only NEC spent more time with the Arcade Card vs PC-FX things may have turned out different. Or better yet have a upgrade that made your PC engine into a PC-FX. Could have been interesting...
Title: Re: So whats the deal with the arcade card?
Post by: nat on November 06, 2011, 04:18:13 PM
Curious, I know it was made for Neo Geo ports and the ever so awesome Sapphire, but whats the story behind it? Why did NEC make so few games for it and what made them stop developing more games like Sapphire? Yeah I know they had another system (PC-FX), but come on, this thing could have easily competed with the likes of the next gen consoles at the time! Makes one wonder...
The division of NEC that sold the Duo basically went bankrupt shortly after the Arcade card was released. That is why there were no more games for it. End of story.
No doubt. With all the money they pumped into the KOF '95 port and Sapphire's real-time 3D engine, how could they make a profit?
Seriously, this is not a true statement.
I didn't say NEC went bankrupt, I said a small DIVISION of NEC (NEC Avenue). The Duo really was discontinued in 1994. Most of those games came out...
Where are you getting this information? Someone has sadly led you up the garden path.
NEC Avenue was not responsible for the Duo. NEC Avenue was an in-house software dev team that mostly handled arcade ports. NEC Avenue never went bankrupt, they were expanded into (or dissolved, and then integrated into, depending on who you believe) NEC Interchannel.
Either way, the NEC Avenue->NEC Interchannel mutation didn't happen until 1996 so I'm not really sure what your point is, assuming they had anything directly to do with Duo sales (which they didn't).
Quote
They pulled the plug on the console division because it was no longer as profitable as their other divisions.
This is just reality.
This isn't reality, and it doesn't even make any sense. How could NEC's console division have been discontinued in 1994 just as they were launching a brand new 32-bit platform? NEC's console division soldiered on with the PC-FX at the helm until 1998, when the plug was finally pulled.
Still, NEC Interchannel lived on despite console production ceasing. As a matter of fact, Interchannel still exists today despite the controlling interests having been sold off to a third party in 2004.
Title: Re: So whats the deal with the arcade card?
Post by: Supremo_Lagarto on November 06, 2011, 04:38:24 PM
There were no more Arcade card games after 1995 because there were no longer Duo's being produced as of 1994.
The division that produced the Duo console was dissolved in 1994 or early 1995. The Duo consoles themselves were not produced after 1994 (1993 in the states).
NEC Avenue was a subdivision of NEC (which designed and produced the DUO with Hudson), so naturally they were involved in the sale of DUO-related products, to suggest they were not is silly. My six button gamepad has NEC Avenue written right on it. It is not a software arcade port. It is a piece of hardware.
The NEC Avenue brand was retired in the mid 90's (because they didn't make enough money for NEC). Just like with any corporate subdivision, the personnel and resources were allocated somewhere else. The NEC Avenue brand was retired. Whether or not we consider NEC Interchannel to be the same subdivision is splitting semantic hairs and missing the point completely.
The PCFX 32-bit platform was not a console in the traditional sense; it was more of an attempt to create a multimedia center or computer. It didn't really fit into either category.
My whole point was that NO DUOS after 1994 = NO MORE ARCADE CARD GAMES.
I like like a company and its products and wish things had been different, but I can't change history to support my bias.
If only NEC spent more time with the Arcade Card vs PC-FX things may have turned out different. Or better yet have a upgrade that made your PC engine into a PC-FX. Could have been interesting...
The Arcade Card was still limited by the capabilities of the Duo, which was at heart an 8-bit system. The biggest problem with the PCFX is that they eliminated features that would have made it competitive with Sony and Sega, but did not redesign it to then be more affordable than what Sony and Sega were producing at the time. They also couldn't seem to decide what the PCFX was supposed to be or who their market was.
Title: Re: So whats the deal with the arcade card?
Post by: nat on November 06, 2011, 05:07:31 PM
There were no more Arcade card games after 1995 because there were no longer Duo's being produced as of 1994.
The division that produced the Duo console was dissolved in 1994 or early 1995. The Duo consoles themselves were not produced after 1994 (1993 in the states).
You might be right that there were no Duos produced after 1994 (I don't have any information either way), but there were certainly arcade card games produced into 1996, so I'm not really sure what you're getting after.
Quote
NEC Avenue was a subdivision of NEC (which designed and produced the DUO with Hudson), so naturally they were involved in the sale of DUO-related products, to suggest they were not is silly.
What's silly is claiming that NEC Avenue, a software development team, was responsible for marketing the Duo because the parent company is NEC Home Electronics.
NEC Home Electronics <> NEC Avenue.
It's like saying that Hudson Soft is responsible for marketing the latest Castlevania titles because they are part of Konami.
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My six button gamepad has NEC Avenue written right on it. It is not a software arcade port. It is a piece of hardware.
Your 6 button pad doesn't have "NEC Avenue" written on it, it has "Avenue Pad 6" written on it.
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The NEC Avenue brand was retired in the mid 90's (because they didn't make enough money for NEC). Just like with any corporate subdivision, the personnel and resources were allocated somewhere else. It didn't mutate into another subdivision, it was retired. Whether or not we consider NEC Interchannel to be the same subdivision is splitting semantic hairs and missing the point completely.
Yes, what is your point? You've stated NEC Avenue was responsible for marketing the Duo, and that they went "bankrupt" in 1994 thus ceasing production of the Duo and arcade card games alike.
However, NEC Avenue continued operations under the NEC Avenue name until 1996, so at least part of your statement certainly isn't accurate.
You then stated no arcade card games were produced after 1994, when in fact they were still being produced into 1996.
I don't even know what we're arguing here, other than the fact that you're clearly misinformed.
And then this....
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The PCFX 32-bit platform was not a console in the traditional sense; it was more of a computer or media center.
...is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever read.
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Just because we like a company and its products does not mean we get to invent the truth to support our bias.
You are the only one inventing "truth" here, unfortunately.
Title: Re: So whats the deal with the arcade card?
Post by: Supremo_Lagarto on November 06, 2011, 05:37:44 PM
My point was that the reason there were no (or very few) Arcade Card games being released, was that the Duo stopped production in 1994.
You might be right that there were no Duos produced after 1994 (I don't have any information either way), but there were certainly arcade card games produced into 1996, so I'm not really sure what you're getting after.
The fact that a handful of obscure titles slipped out past 1994 does not change the fact that software companies were not interested in developing games for a defunct platform. I'm sure we all understand this.
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What's silly is claiming that NEC Avenue, a software development team, was responsible for marketing the Duo because the parent company is NEC Home Electronics.
Anyone who thinks I claimed this has misunderstood me. "Bankrupt" was the wrong term for me to use as it implies insolvency and a subdivision cannot be fiscally insolvent. I should have simply said they were not making enough money, so the brand was retired and the resources and personnel were used elsewhere.
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Your 6 button pad doesn't have "NEC Avenue" written on it, it has "Avenue Pad 6" written on it.
Actually it has the NEC Avenue brand logo on it, because they produced and marketed it. It is also on the box. This is not difficult to verify. However, it does also say Avenue Pad 6.
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Yes, what is your point? You've stated NEC Avenue was responsible for marketing the Duo, and that they went "bankrupt" in 1994 thus ceasing production of the Duo and arcade card games alike.
I never said they marketed the Duo. I said they marketed a lot of the later products. When the Duo was no longer being produced, NEC Avenue was functionally dissolved or reorganized into a completely different subdivision. After that point there was little to no more support for Arcade Card Products.
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...is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever read.
You are the only one inventing "truth" here, unfortunately.
When one engages in a civil discussion, one usually avoids statements of this nature as they are unnecessary.
Title: Re: So whats the deal with the arcade card?
Post by: Edmond Dantes on November 06, 2011, 05:47:20 PM
I like like a company and its products and wish things had been different, but I can't change history to support my bias.
Sure we can! The Engine never died! NEC lives on! The only reason we haven't seen any new games since then is because of a terrorist plot! That's it, all the new Duo games are locked up in a secret underground base somewhere, and we have to rescue them!
The Playstation is a lie!
Title: Re: So whats the deal with the arcade card?
Post by: SignOfZeta on November 06, 2011, 08:06:19 PM
My point was that the reason there were no (or very few) Arcade Card games being released, was that the Duo stopped production in 1994.
As I said before there were dozens of PCE games released after 1994. Many of them were published by NEC themselves.
Bazaaru de Gozaaru no Geemu de Gozaaru, 1996 Dead of the Brain 1 & 2, 1999 Tekipaki Wakin - Love, 1997 Madou Monogatari, 1996 De Ja, 1996 Go! Go! Birdie Chance, 1996 Puyo Puyo CD 2, 1996 Doukyūsei, 1995 Linda 3, 1995 Private Eye Doll, 1995
There are more.
My point is that the Arcade Card fell out of popularity all on its own. It had zero to do with the PC Engine reaching EOL. Also, NEC Avenue/Interchannel/Home Electronics weren't needed to make an Arcade Card game anyway. See: Sapphire, 1995. Of the 60 or so games released after 1994, almost none of them are ACDs. They could have been, but they aren't. The reason for this is that most people wouldn't have been able to appreciate it, and the sales would have suffered. It has nothing to do with NEC. The SCD format was simply the most popular. Its the same reason Bomberman '94 and Bonk 3 were standard HuCards instead of Supergrafx HuCards. The PC Engine has more than one evolutionary dead end. (Part of the charm, IMO)
So your basic statement, that ACD games stopped coming because some specific group within NEC was dissolved or that production of new PCE consoles had ended is immaterial. Its not uncommon at all to continued to make games after a system goes out of production. Sega did it with the DC (Puyo Puyo 4, Sakura Wars 4) Nintendo did it with the FC (those crazy cart releases of FD games in the 90s) SNK did with the Neo Geo big time. I'm not sure how many years the AES was out of production when Samshow V Special was released. NEC did it with the Duo, see: Dead of the Brain, 1999, 5 years after (according to you) Duo production had stopped.
Title: Re: So whats the deal with the arcade card?
Post by: Necromancer on November 07, 2011, 05:21:38 AM
NEC Avenue and NEC Interchannel were unrelated and the PC-FX wasn't a console?!? Man, where do these people come from? :lol:
Title: Re: So whats the deal with the arcade card?
Post by: BigusSchmuck on November 07, 2011, 10:19:31 AM
Quote
NEC Avenue and NEC Interchannel were unrelated and the PC-FX wasn't a console?!? Man, where do these people come from?
From the depths of their nerd caves, thats where (mine so happens to be the phone room at work). ^^ Joking aside...
Quote
The Arcade Card was still limited by the capabilities of the Duo, which was at heart an 8-bit system.
That didn't stop the Playdia, it too was a 8 bit system. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Playdia
Title: Re: So whats the deal with the arcade card?
Post by: nodtveidt on November 07, 2011, 10:58:34 AM
Are we still on the bit war bullshit? That crap's been debunked to the point of ad nauseum ages ago.
Title: Re: So whats the deal with the arcade card?
Post by: BigusSchmuck on November 07, 2011, 11:07:38 AM
Quote
Are we still on the bit war bullshit? That crap's been debunked to the point of ad nauseum ages ago.
Hence my Playdia reference. It is a tired argument, just like the SNES vs Genesis arguments back in the day.
Title: Re: So whats the deal with the arcade card?
Post by: SignOfZeta on November 07, 2011, 02:22:51 PM
Why would anyone mention the Playdia as a pro-8-bit factoid? The thing was a collossal flop.
Title: Re: So whats the deal with the arcade card?
Post by: rag-time4 on November 07, 2011, 03:35:50 PM
I dunno about World Heroes, but I'm able to compare Fatal Fury 2 to the version on the Playstation 2's Battle Archives release.
The only difference so far is that the shadows flicker and there are load times. Oh, and you have to play with a PC Engine controller. That's it. It seems to be a solid port.
There is one major difference between the pce ACD port of fatal fury 2 and the neo geo version that i would like to point out to my Irem-loving friend, which is the redbook audio of the ACD version. To my fanboy ears, the music of teh ACD fatal fury 2 is heaven! Even ACD fatal fury special is a step down! The only tune i like better in the original neo geo version is joe higashi's stage.
Title: Re: So whats the deal with the arcade card?
Post by: Edmond Dantes on November 10, 2011, 05:18:21 AM
If I may revive this topic real quick, I always wondered something:
Why are there two versions of the Arcade Card? Is there even really a difference? Would anything bad happen if I tried to plug the Duo model into a briefcase?
Title: Re: So whats the deal with the arcade card?
Post by: SignOfZeta on November 10, 2011, 05:33:48 AM
The easy way to explain it is to say that the Pro version is for machines that don't have the Super System Card built in and the Duo version is for the systems that do (the Duos, Laseractive, and the Super CDROM2).
If you put the Pro in a Duo system it behaves the same as a Duo card since it just replaces the existing System 3.0. If you put a Duo AC in a "core" system it won't boot since there isn't any System on it.
Title: Re: So whats the deal with the arcade card?
Post by: GohanX on November 10, 2011, 05:44:51 AM
There is one major difference between the pce ACD port of fatal fury 2 and the neo geo version that i would like to point out to my Irem-loving friend, which is the redbook audio of the ACD version. To my fanboy ears, the music of teh ACD fatal fury 2 is heaven! Even ACD fatal fury special is a step down! The only tune i like better in the original neo geo version is joe higashi's stage.
Does anyone know if this is the same as the CD tunes on the Fatal Fury 2 Neo CD? That music really is fantastic, and I actually prefer the CD version because of it despite the loading.
Title: Re: So whats the deal with the arcade card?
Post by: Black Tiger on November 10, 2011, 05:50:18 AM
The Sega-CD, 32X carts and 32X CDs were all technically superior to Genesis cart games, but Genesis carts were more popular, so publishers stuck with them for most projects. It's the same reason why HuCards got mostly smaller scale games and that the SuperGrafx and ACD didn't take over: the SCD format was far more popular and more than good enough.
If I may revive this topic real quick, I always wondered something:
Why are there two versions of the Arcade Card? Is there even really a difference? Would anything bad happen if I tried to plug the Duo model into a briefcase?
The Arcade Card Pro contains both the hardware and BIOS upgrade that makes the PC Engine more powerfully 8-bit. The Arcade Card Duo only contains the major hafdware upgrades and the BIOS upgrades are magically transferred by some as of yet undiscovered method.
Title: Re: So whats the deal with the arcade card?
Post by: BigusSchmuck on November 22, 2011, 03:22:26 PM
Well, finally got my arcade card a few days ago, got to hand it to them, its pretty sweet. Now to find a decent 6 button controller without losing an arm or a leg.
Title: Re: So whats the deal with the arcade card?
Post by: rag-time4 on December 01, 2011, 02:32:02 PM
There is one major difference between the pce ACD port of fatal fury 2 and the neo geo version that i would like to point out to my Irem-loving friend, which is the redbook audio of the ACD version. To my fanboy ears, the music of teh ACD fatal fury 2 is heaven! Even ACD fatal fury special is a step down! The only tune i like better in the original neo geo version is joe higashi's stage.
Does anyone know if this is the same as the CD tunes on the Fatal Fury 2 Neo CD? That music really is fantastic, and I actually prefer the CD version because of it despite the loading.
The music of teh ACD fatal fury is a unique rendition probably not heard anywhere else, and definitely different from the Neo CD version.
You will notice that on ACD fatal fury 2, the travel music and certain others are chip tunes, whereas theyre redbook on Neo CD.
Title: Re: So whats the deal with the arcade card?
Post by: shubibiman on December 02, 2011, 05:33:58 AM
NEC Avenue existed even before the PCE existed as it was not only a game editor but also Video and music editor, as Asmik, Pack In Video and some others were.
Back to the point : the reason why the Arcade card didn't have more specific games is the same reason as to why the Supergrafx didn't get many games either : it was better for editors to develop games for a machine like a Duo than to limit it's selling possibilities to the few owners of the expensive Arcade card.
Title: Re: So whats the deal with the arcade card?
Post by: Necromancer on December 02, 2011, 05:49:42 AM
Exactly, shubi. Plus not that many game types desperately need the extra memory anyway; other than fighters and extra fancy cinemas, the SuperCD format was more than enough to compete (i.e. - Dracula X).
Title: Re: So whats the deal with the arcade card?
Post by: nat on December 02, 2011, 04:39:24 PM
Wait, I thought the Arcade Card didn't have any games because they stopped making them in 1994, at the same time NEC Avenue stopped making the Duo?
Title: Re: So whats the deal with the arcade card?
Post by: SignOfZeta on December 02, 2011, 07:33:57 PM
Heh, I guess we have to be realistic about what we are asking of developers. If they make their game Arcade Card requisite we are basically saying they need to fill 8x as much RAM with 8x as much shit, sell it to 1/8 as many people and somehow stay in business selling the games for the same price as a non-AC game.
This is the reason most system add-ons flop. Its amazing the PCE actually had two very successful ones (the CDROM2 and the Super System Card) before finally hitting a wall.
Title: Re: So whats the deal with the arcade card?
Post by: Supremo_Lagarto on December 03, 2011, 03:54:05 PM
My whole point was that development stopped on the Arcade Card games because the Duo was no longer in production as of 1994. Whether or not NEC Avenue is exactly the same as NEC Interchannel and the existence of the PCFX system is immaterial. Developers were not going to create a significant number of titles for a platform that was no longer being manufactured. It is a very simple point.
That doesn't mean there were absolutely NO GAMES made for the arcade card (or the Duo) after that point, it means there were not a significant amount.
Battlefield '94 In Super Battle Dream Fire Pro Female Wrestling Garou Densetsu 2 (Fatal Fury 2) Garou Densetsu Special (Fatal Fury Special) Ginga Fukei Densetsu Sapphire Jong Shin Densetsu Kabuki Itouryodan Mad Stalker Full Metal Force Madou Monogatari I Honou no Sotsuenji Ryuuko No Ken (Art of Fighting) Strider Hiryuu World Heroes 2
Most of these were released right around 1993 or 1994. The Duo stopped being manufactures in Japan around 1994.
NEC Avenue and NEC Interchannel were unrelated and the PC-FX wasn't a console?!? Man, where do these people come from? :lol:
That is not remotely similar to what I was saying and is taken completely out of context.
Before we chime in and rag on what person A supposedly said about something, look at what person A actually wrote and not what person B says that person A wrote.
And yes, I do revise my posts for punctuation, grammar, or other writing mistakes. That doesn't mean I'm being deceptive or changing the substance of what I've said after I have said it. It means that I am trying to be understood in polite conversation.
Peace everybody.
Title: Re: So whats the deal with the arcade card?
Post by: KingDrool on December 05, 2011, 04:40:01 AM
I'm glad this came up as I'm hoping to buy a briefcase unit soon. If I buy the Arcade Card Pro, do I still need a system card for SCDs, or does the Pro cover that?
Title: Re: So whats the deal with the arcade card?
Post by: SignOfZeta on December 05, 2011, 05:14:55 AM
The Pro does everything.
Title: Re: So whats the deal with the arcade card?
Post by: KingDrool on December 05, 2011, 05:20:17 AM
My whole point was that development stopped on the Arcade Card games because the Duo was no longer in production as of 1994. Whether or not NEC Avenue is exactly the same as NEC Interchannel and the existence of the PCFX system is immaterial. Developers were not going to create a significant number of titles for a platform that was no longer being manufactured. It is a very simple point.
I don't think it's that simple. If it is, then please explain why they continued to make so many SuperCD games after ceasing Duo production (50 to 100+ titles depending on the exact cut off date).
That is not remotely similar to what I was saying and is taken completely out of context.
Before we chime in and rag on what person A supposedly said about something, look at what person A actually wrote and not what person B says that person A wrote.
Oh, but that's exactly what you intimated. Here's what you said about NEC Avenue:
The division of NEC that sold the Duo basically went bankrupt shortly after the Arcade card was released. That is why there were no more games for it. End of story.
I didn't say NEC went bankrupt, I said a small DIVISION of NEC (NEC Avenue).
So if NEC Avenue was bankrupt/dissolved in '94, simple logic dictates that it couldn't possibly be the same company as (or a part of) the later formed NEC Interchannel. Not that it really matters - the fact remains that NEC Avenue was never responsible for the Duo and the brand soldiered on through the end of '96 (Madou Monogatari on the PCE) and into '97 with a couple PC-FX titles anyway.
Speaking of the PC-FX, here's your exact words regarding it as a console:
The PCFX 32-bit platform was not a console in the traditional sense; it was more of an attempt to create a multimedia center or computer. It didn't really fit into either category.
... which is absolutely ridiculous. The only multimedia capabilities it has are the ability to play music CDs and photo CDs, traits shared with the Saturn, PlayStation, and 3DO (all decidedly consoles).
And yes, I do revise my posts for punctuation, grammar, or other writing mistakes. That doesn't mean I'm being deceptive or changing the substance of what I've said after I have said it. It means that I am trying to be understood in polite conversation.
That's why you've removed the comment about how 'They claim these flash cards to work just like real hucards. They lied.', and added that it's just a case of 'defective memory'. Nope, no substantive changes there, just 30+ updates and spelling goof fixes. :roll:
Except for the Games Express games, but those kinda suck and should come with the system card included anyway.
Title: Re: So whats the deal with the arcade card?
Post by: SignOfZeta on December 05, 2011, 01:37:00 PM
Games Express shit doesn't count. The AC plays everything that is official (minus Altered Beast CD, which no sane person would actually want to play anyway).
Title: Re: So whats the deal with the arcade card?
Post by: Edmond Dantes on December 05, 2011, 11:33:38 PM
What is Games Express?
Title: Re: So whats the deal with the arcade card?
Post by: Necromancer on December 06, 2011, 02:13:56 AM
Yeah, but wasn't the Super Famicom port exceedingly bad? (Fatal Fury 2)
I don't know about the SFC port of Fatal Fury 2, but I have the US SNES port of Fatal Fury Special, and it is a great port. It's more balanced, too. Terry isn't useless at all.
Title: Re: So whats the deal with the arcade card?
Post by: Neo Rasa on December 15, 2011, 12:21:25 PM
It's true, the US version of SNES Fatal Fury Special was re-balanced and many glitches in the Japanese game were removed too. Fatal Fury 2 isn't really worth owning on SNES though it is notable for keeping almost all of the voice overs (though with much lower quality sampling than the Neo Geo of course).
The PCE CD FFS is the best though. The sprites are slightly smaller than the Neo Geo version and the backgrounds are SLIGHTLY less detailed but other than that the controls and speed are outstanding, one of the best fighting game ports ever.
I like Art of Fighting on the PCE CD much more than the SNES/Genesis ports as well. Unlike those the NEC system has some rad trickery that imitates the zooming in and out of the arcade version. Also like Fatal Fury Special ALL the animation is there from the arcade version. Great job.
Lady Sword...ugh. It's not an AWFUL game but it's just you and the monsters. There are people to talk to but you'll get sick of fighting monsters about half and hour in.
Title: Re: So whats the deal with the arcade card?
Post by: T2KFreeker on December 15, 2011, 12:37:57 PM
It's true, the US version of SNES Fatal Fury Special was re-balanced and many glitches in the Japanese game were removed too. Fatal Fury 2 isn't really worth owning on SNES though it is notable for keeping almost all of the voice overs (though with much lower quality sampling than the Neo Geo of course).
The PCE CD FFS is the best though. The sprites are slightly smaller than the Neo Geo version and the backgrounds are SLIGHTLY less detailed but other than that the controls and speed are outstanding, one of the best fighting game ports ever.
I like Art of Fighting on the PCE CD much more than the SNES/Genesis ports as well. Unlike those the NEC system has some rad trickery that imitates the zooming in and out of the arcade version. Also like Fatal Fury Special ALL the animation is there from the arcade version. Great job.
Lady Sword...ugh. It's not an AWFUL game but it's just you and the monsters. There are people to talk to but you'll get sick of fighting monsters about half and hour in.
What is this Lady Sword you speak of?
Title: Re: So whats the deal with the arcade card?
Post by: Chuplayer on December 15, 2011, 12:38:29 PM
It's true, the US version of SNES Fatal Fury Special was re-balanced and many glitches in the Japanese game were removed too.
Really? It's no wonder I liked it so much.
I got the XBLA version of Fatal Fury Special a few years ago, and it was so frustrating to play as my favorite character, Terry, and get my buns handed to me.
Title: Re: So whats the deal with the arcade card?
Post by: Neo Rasa on December 15, 2011, 12:49:07 PM
It's like Arcana but remove all the character classes and party dynamics and replace with boobs and ultra-violence.
Now, this isn't necessarily a bad idea for a game, but the game is just boring as hell without party members or a variety of weapons and equipment to play around with: the entire game is this forever.
Chuplayer the worst thing about those Neo Geo releases on XBLA was the laaaaag ugh. :( Also getting hate mail and a lot of ragequits cause I'd play Geese and just jump up and fire Shippukens a lot. I mean if someone's going to stand on the far side of the screen and shoot fireballs straight ahead over and over and never even block or sidestep what do they expect?
Title: Re: So whats the deal with the arcade card?
Post by: T2KFreeker on December 15, 2011, 01:08:46 PM
I need a list of all the Arcade Card games that released. I am curious.
Title: Re: So whats the deal with the arcade card?
Post by: Chuplayer on December 15, 2011, 01:11:23 PM
Battlefield '94 In Super Battle Dream Fire Pro Female Wrestling (WOWOW vs. JWP...) Garou Densetsu 2 (Fatal Fury 2) Garou Densetsu Special (Fatal Fury Special) Ginga Fukei Densetsu Sapphire Jong Shin Densetsu Kabuki Itouryodan Mad Stalker Full Metal Force Madou Monogatari I Honou no Sotsuenji Ryuuko No Ken (Art of Fighting) Strider Hiryuu World Heroes 2
Title: Re: So whats the deal with the arcade card?
Post by: Necromancer on December 16, 2011, 02:44:50 AM
That's the dirty dozen; there's also another twenty or so titles that don't require an Arcade Card but can use it to improve animation or cut down on loading.
Title: Re: So whats the deal with the arcade card?
Post by: BigusSchmuck on December 16, 2011, 03:07:43 AM
Like the Lunarish game called Gulliver Boy!
Title: Re: So whats the deal with the arcade card?
Post by: nat on December 16, 2011, 01:22:19 PM
I already linked to the list on PAGE 3 of this VERY THREAD, but since people can't be bothered to read a thread, let me link to it for you again:
Maybe I'll get to link to the list again when we reach page 11.
Sorry? 8-[ I did read the thread through from the beginning when I started posting responses. I'll remember this next time I need the list. I appreciate it.
Title: Re: So whats the deal with the arcade card?
Post by: nat on December 16, 2011, 01:50:08 PM
No problem. My tone wasn't directed at you specifically, it's just as I mentioned in the message on page 3, the "list of arcade card games" seems to be one of those things someone comes along every month or so and asks for. No one ever bothers searching. It was just a little ironic to me it happened twice in the same thread.
Title: Re: So whats the deal with the arcade card?
Post by: T2KFreeker on December 16, 2011, 02:51:09 PM
No problem. My tone wasn't directed at you specifically, it's just as I mentioned in the message on page 3, the "list of arcade card games" seems to be one of those things someone comes along every month or so and asks for. No one ever bothers searching. It was just a little ironic to me it happened twice in the same thread.
I just basically want the list as I am a new owner of said card. Strider looks like it's going to be a pain in the ass to get too, sadly. Played it back in the day and loved it. The extra levels were cool.