PCEngineFans.com - The PC Engine and TurboGrafx-16 Community Forum

NEC PC-Engine/SuperGrafx => PC Engine/SuperGrafx Discussion => Topic started by: pcenginesupergrafxpcfx on November 12, 2011, 04:05:48 PM

Title: What's the difference between the Core Grafx and Core Grafx II?
Post by: pcenginesupergrafxpcfx on November 12, 2011, 04:05:48 PM
Is it just color?
Title: Re: What's the difference between the Core Grafx and Core Grafx II?
Post by: SignOfZeta on November 12, 2011, 04:47:50 PM
The case is actually a different mold, but basically, yeah. It's all cosmetic. The Core Grafx II was designed to match the Super CDROM2 add-on.
Title: Re: What's the difference between the Core Grafx and Core Grafx II?
Post by: pcenginesupergrafxpcfx on November 12, 2011, 05:19:06 PM
Oh that makes sence. What is it with NEC just releasing the same console with a different mold and/or color? :?
I'm still getting a Shuttle and RX though :dance:
Title: Re: What's the difference between the Core Grafx and Core Grafx II?
Post by: RR1980 on November 12, 2011, 05:25:10 PM
another difference is price. When the CGII came out the retail price is much lower than when the CG first came out. Same with the Duo/R/Rx
Title: Re: What's the difference between the Core Grafx and Core Grafx II?
Post by: pcenginesupergrafxpcfx on November 12, 2011, 05:32:56 PM
What year did the Core Grafx come out and what year the Core Grafx II? :-k
Title: Re: What's the difference between the Core Grafx and Core Grafx II?
Post by: Tatsujin on November 12, 2011, 09:33:32 PM
http://www6.airnet.ne.jp/wataru/pce/pce_mech.htm

PCエンジンコアグラフィックス (PI-TG3) 1989年12月発売
Core grafx December 1989

PCエンジンコアグラフィックスII (PI-TG7) 1991年6月発売
Core crafx II June 1991

:)
Title: Re: What's the difference between the Core Grafx and Core Grafx II?
Post by: RR1980 on November 12, 2011, 10:46:49 PM
http://www6.airnet.ne.jp/wataru/pce/pce_mech.htm

PCエンジンコアグラフィックス (PI-TG3) 1989年12月発売
Core grafx December 1989

PCエンジンコアグラフィックスII (PI-TG7) 1991年6月発売
Core crafx II June 1991

:)



Looking at the prices of all those pce hardware back in the day it's crazy the LT was actually more expensive than the Laser Active!
Title: Re: What's the difference between the Core Grafx and Core Grafx II?
Post by: SuperDeadite on November 12, 2011, 10:52:38 PM
Well the LA can't actually play games by itself, just an LD movie player with a giant whole in the front.
Title: Re: What's the difference between the Core Grafx and Core Grafx II?
Post by: spenoza on November 22, 2011, 10:24:56 AM
I wonder if the CGII implemented any cost savings via chip or board consolidation or anything like that. I know the different Genesis models varied some in terms of audio quality. Did the various PCE models have any differences in color or audio reproduction or did NEC/Hudson have better chip quality control?
Title: Re: What's the difference between the Core Grafx and Core Grafx II?
Post by: nat on November 22, 2011, 03:20:53 PM
http://www6.airnet.ne.jp/wataru/pce/pce_mech.htm

PCエンジンコアグラフィックス (PI-TG3) 1989年12月発売
Core grafx December 1989

PCエンジンコアグラフィックスII (PI-TG7) 1991年6月発売
Core crafx II June 1991

:)


You know, looking at those part numbers, I noticed something I've never noticed before. All the part numbers are "TG<something>" all the way back to the white PC Engine. Could TG stand for TurboGrafx, or does it mean something else obvious that I'm just having a brainfart on? Could it be, that even the JP PCE was originally to be called "TurboGrafx" but had a name change at some point along the way?
Title: Re: What's the difference between the Core Grafx and Core Grafx II?
Post by: Mishran on November 22, 2011, 03:37:38 PM
Being that every system after has "Grafx" in the name, who knows! :mrgreen:
Title: Re: What's the difference between the Core Grafx and Core Grafx II?
Post by: nat on November 22, 2011, 03:48:08 PM
That was my thought as well. I mean, it's a real possibility, right?
Title: Re: What's the difference between the Core Grafx and Core Grafx II?
Post by: roflmao on November 22, 2011, 05:00:44 PM
Very interesting observation, nat!
Title: Re: What's the difference between the Core Grafx and Core Grafx II?
Post by: farankoshan on November 22, 2011, 06:13:02 PM
I seem to remember that outputs are different on the two cores? I could be wrong, but doesn't the difference lie in something beyond aesthetic?

But, yes, the color swap shows that the biggest difference between them is a small one.
Title: Re: What's the difference between the Core Grafx and Core Grafx II?
Post by: SignOfZeta on November 23, 2011, 04:46:51 AM
No, There is no functional difference whatsoever.

I can't say for sure, but I think the PCBs are identical with the only change being the casing. There isn't as much junk to get rid of in a PCE as there is in a Genesis, Saturn, PS2, etc.
Title: Re: What's the difference between the Core Grafx and Core Grafx II?
Post by: Bonknuts on November 23, 2011, 07:00:18 AM
There's an audio upgrade (revision 6280A) in one of the CoreGrafx models over the original PCE. I believe it's the CoreGrafx model 1 because it came out about the same time as the SGX (which has the upgraded revision). So it's possible that CGII doesn't have this (I've never seen a Duo model with the A revision cpu). So that's a potential, albeit small, difference.
Title: Re: What's the difference between the Core Grafx and Core Grafx II?
Post by: Necromancer on November 23, 2011, 09:26:33 AM
There's an audio upgrade (revision 6280A) in one of the CoreGrafx models over the original PCE.

What does it do differently/better?
Title: Re: What's the difference between the Core Grafx and Core Grafx II?
Post by: Bonknuts on November 23, 2011, 11:28:13 AM
There's an audio upgrade (revision 6280A) in one of the CoreGrafx models over the original PCE.

What does it do differently/better?

 There's popping on the corresponding channel's DAC when volume is adjusted. It's relative to the size of the adjustment, but it can get pretty loud/noticeable if the change is large (in either direction, including turning 'off' the channel). So the revision cpu fixes this (since the audio chip is included in the same package as the cpu) and gives a little smoother audio. When I was creating a few different sound engines, I specifically wrote support for silencing a channel without the noticeable pop. So you can work around it if you're making your own sound engine/code. The one offender that stood out to me was Ninja Spirit (more apparent with headphones). Trust me, you don't want to notice it or you'll start hearing in other games/musics as well. Ignorance is bliss ;)
Title: Re: What's the difference between the Core Grafx and Core Grafx II?
Post by: spenoza on November 25, 2011, 02:58:37 AM
If you have a decent selection of hardware at home, could you check out this popping for us? I have a Core I, but that's it. I can't do any sort of comparison. It is also possible that the revision was incorporated into later CPUs without the model number change.
Title: Re: What's the difference between the Core Grafx and Core Grafx II?
Post by: Necromancer on November 28, 2011, 03:16:34 AM
Trust me, you don't want to notice it or you'll start hearing in other games/musics as well. Ignorance is bliss ;)

Nope, mine doesn't make any untoward noises.  *sticks head in sand*  :)
Title: Re: What's the difference between the Core Grafx and Core Grafx II?
Post by: Bonknuts on November 28, 2011, 11:37:25 AM
If you have a decent selection of hardware at home, could you check out this popping for us? I have a Core I, but that's it. I can't do any sort of comparison. It is also possible that the revision was incorporated into later CPUs without the model number change.

 I only have a white pce, supergrafx, and an original US duo. I did a bunch of test along with mednafen emulation author and the result is a selectable core for pce audio emulation (it emulates the pops and some of the other small behavior. The waveform output is inverted on the A revision too, but that could just be the amp circuit in general - but it does have a small impact when CD and ADPCM is accompanied with it. And other tiny small differences). We did a ton of testing, so I don't think there's anything else really to be found (but I encourage anyone to take up the task. The more tests, the better). There's somethings you can do on the A revision that you can't do exactly on the original revision, like streaming high playback sample rates and low cpu resouce - using the waveform memory as a small buffer. The original audio chip would allow this, but turning on/off the channel causes a LOUD buzzing sound. The original chip can use a work around by having another channel cause a reverse direction audio spike to cancel it out but it requires two channels to do the same trick the SGX using one. Though I digress, 'cause no games do this...