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Tech and Homebrew => Turbo/PCE Game/Tool Development => Topic started by: Arkhan on February 25, 2012, 06:05:05 AM

Title: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: Arkhan on February 25, 2012, 06:05:05 AM
Ladies, Gentlemen, and Necromancer,

I have uploaded what is now known as the Pyramid Plunder Public Beta (pppb). 

It can be found at

http://www.aetherbyte.com/downloadables/pppb.iso

This is a public beta. 

Pass it around, put it on a real disc, in a real unit, and play it.  Discuss any issues here.

The goal is to find any goof-ups and get them fixed so it's in good shape for a real release.


There is a bug that causes a full-hang of the game.  If you can track down, and recreate it 100% of the time, you've earned a free copy of the game when it's released.



You may notice other oddities, probably related to it being a debug mode of the game.  Post em here too.  Just in case.

Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: T2KFreeker on February 25, 2012, 06:53:50 AM
Oooh! This is awesome!
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: Opethian on February 25, 2012, 06:55:58 AM
brb gonna print up some awesome arwork and spine cards and sell on YJA... erm I mean thanks!
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: Arkhan on February 25, 2012, 06:56:46 AM
brb gonna print up some awesome arwork and spine cards and sell on YJA... erm I mean thanks!
lol k!
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: Bernie on February 25, 2012, 07:19:23 AM
I like it, the tunes are neato as well.  One thing I noticed right away is that sometimes when you walk over the little bits you are supposed to be picking up, I guess they are gold bars, that sometimes they dont pick up and you have to backtrack.  Specially when you hold down button I for walking fast/running. 
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: Arkhan on February 25, 2012, 07:48:29 AM
That's supposed to happen.

Running = cant pick up items.

:) 
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: Bernie on February 25, 2012, 08:08:25 AM
That's supposed to happen.

Running = cant pick up items.

:) 

Yeah, I kinda figured that, but didnt know for sure.  I did notice that sometimes it happens with just walking tho.  Thats how I first noticed it.  Maybe its cuz I am using Ootake for it, maybe cuz its beta, I dunno.  :)  Either way, bring it on.  :)
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: Arkhan on February 25, 2012, 08:10:28 AM
O_O, you miss pickups while just plain-walking?

That's new.  Can you poke at that some more and confirm it??

Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: TheOldMan on February 25, 2012, 11:12:20 AM
Quote
There is a bug that causes a full-hang of the game

That's a debug halt. If you press button II, you should be able to continue playing, but wierd things may happen :)

Quote
you miss pickups while just plain-walking?

Did you make sure to pass the center of the tile? It's not a pickup if you don't ....
You can't reverse too soon, or you miss the bar.
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: Keranu on February 25, 2012, 12:04:09 PM
Excellent job, Pyramid Plunder feels very professional! The controls are perfect and smooth, everything looks and sounds great!

I have a couple of suggestions/reports.

Firstly I agree with what Black_Tiger said in another post about the teleports: at the current speed, it interrupts the flow of the game. Also for safety's sake, it might be wise to halt the enemies during teleportation so the player doesn't have an unlucky run-in with the enemy upon arrival.

One potential problem I ran into was where I had one Ankh left on the screen but it was trapped by a mummy that kept repeating the same movement pattern. I tried running across the screen but he didn't seem to nudge. I died shortly after, not sure if there was anything I could do.

Quote
There is a bug that causes a full-hang of the game

That's a debug halt. If you press button II, you should be able to continue playing, but wierd things may happen :)
I encountered that too, thought it was a bug.

Quote from: Arkhan
you miss pickups while just plain-walking?
I thought this may have happened to me too on the first level. I don't think I was running, but I may have without noticing.
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: ParanoiaDragon on February 25, 2012, 12:38:48 PM
I love me some PP.  I agree with Keranu's statements.  Also, I'm wondering if there's a little bit nicer way of showing the names of the characters in those boxes.  Maybe some kind of simple border.  I know the names can't be there without the box, atleast, in those colors.  Also....I sware there was a mummy called Leon!  How did I see that, now all I get is the last mummy being called Hinky!  Also, I was totally expecting one to be called Minkey, as Inspecter Inspector Clouseau calls monkies. :D
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: esteban on February 25, 2012, 12:40:04 PM
I found the platinum Ankh that leads to the mini-game (a Zookeeper clone).

Hats off to you! That was totally unexpected and I really was impressed. (http://junk.tg-16.com/images/pcds.html)
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: ParanoiaDragon on February 25, 2012, 12:41:35 PM
Ok, just figured out how to get Leon :D
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: TheOldMan on February 25, 2012, 01:12:29 PM
Quote
Ok, just figured out how to get Leon
He pops out randomly one the title screen.....

Quote
I found the platinum Ankh that leads to the mini-game
Nope, not a zookeeper clone. And leon is involved...

Quote
but it was trapped by a mummy that kept repeating the same movement pattern.
That happens. But if he's following a known pattern, you should be able to trail behind him :)
If not, don't take so long to get all the bars :)


Quote
I encountered that too, thought it was a bug.
What were you doing? What board were you on? What numbers showed up n the screen????

That's the bug we're trying to find, and the more info on it, the better.
...................
And, until we figure out what is causing the bug, everything else is frozen. I'm not changing things until I know the bug is gone, because I don't want some minor change to throw off reproducing the bug. Once we can reproduce it, we can fix it.

Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: Keranu on February 25, 2012, 01:47:12 PM
Here's a screenshot the first time I encountered the bug. I believe it happened out of no where.

(http://i40.tinypic.com/im6psp.png)

And here's another instance that just happened to me. All I was doing was walking up. It looks as if the tile he's about to step on glitches or changes graphics, it reverted back to normal after I walked past it.

(http://i42.tinypic.com/2lllqqd.jpg)
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: ParanoiaDragon on February 25, 2012, 03:12:53 PM
Seems like he always pops up whenever I hold I during the loading & Title screens.  Haven't tested it further to see if it's only during the loading, or only during the Title screen, but he pops up every time for me.
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: TheOldMan on February 25, 2012, 03:25:47 PM
Quote
Here's a screenshot the first time I encountered the bug. I believe it happened out of no where.
Thank You. Now for some explanation of what you see....

The leftmost number is the ghost id. It happens on both ghost 1 (Blinky, I think) and 0 (Inky), so it is not
something ghost specific....
The next number is the tile value (024c). Note that it happens on the same tile both times.
The next two numbers are the tile coordinates (on the big map). So the ghosts are trying to walk through
the wall at 17,10. That happens to be the right side of the ghost house.

So the working theory (and glad you contributed evidence to it) is that there is a problem when the ghosts go to spawn. I suspect it has something to do with the ghost house being only 2 squares wide (Hey, I didn't make the boards) causing problems when a reverse event occurs....
The only other report I've had of this was on 2-4, where the ghost house is 2 squares wide, also.
.................................
Okay, we have a start. I will put in a full debug screen, so we can see everything I need next week.  In the mean time, see if you can repeat it with a particular pattern. If we can do that, I can get it fixed for good :)
Look for a newer release later in the week, at aetherbyte.

[For those who are interested, ghosts going through walls due to reversals has been a long-standing problem in the game. It's a large part of why it's not out yet :)]
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: Vecanti on February 25, 2012, 05:50:53 PM
Suck!  I haven't had it freeze once.  Guess I'm not going to win the free copy.  This has sucked hours from my life.  Haven't found any bugs yet.

Only thought is that the you have to get really close to the edge of the screen before it starts scrolling so you can't tell whats coming.  Get's my heart rate up!  Maybe an easy mode so it scrolls sooner? :)  Keeps it exciting though! (i know there's a map) 
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: touko on February 25, 2012, 07:07:45 PM
Eh i like it ..

This pac-man remake has great ideas, like run,teleport and radar, and i was surprised by sfx  :wink: ..
However the in game music is too reptitive i think ..

I applaud the big effort to renew the genre, which (with sound fx) is for me the great part .. :clap:
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: Keranu on February 25, 2012, 07:32:29 PM
However the in game music is too reptitive i think ..
I like the song, but I was wondering if there were plans to add new songs for each level to reduce the repetition. At least you can turn the music off with the select button.
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: touko on February 25, 2012, 07:40:17 PM
Yes, but I prefer by far the insanity, or atlantean in game musics, more likely to show the squirrel capabilities .
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: Vecanti on February 25, 2012, 08:00:12 PM
brb gonna print up some awesome arwork and spine cards and sell on YJA... erm I mean thanks!


http://pcedev.wordpress.com/2012/02/24/megaman-complete-casemanualgame/#comments

Somebody just did that to Megaman SCD that was release like a week ago. :(
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: grahf on February 25, 2012, 08:03:06 PM
Sweet. I gotta pick up some CD-Rs. I don't think I own any anymore.

I was thinking about ordering Insanity, but I might hold off until this is released - if it will save on shipping that is.
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: nodtveidt on February 26, 2012, 04:09:55 AM
Got a few pretty big gripes with this.

1. I'm not entertained. :( It's interesting at first but because the levels are so big, it gets redundant. Fast. Smaller maps would help a lot. I had to shut it off after the second level.
2. Scrolling thresholds are too wide. This is the same problem Exile II has.
3. Music gets irritating quickly.
4. No pause button.
5. The sprites aren't very impressive-looking.
6. The "teleport" detail looks amateurish. It would look better if you did some kind of melt-and-vanish effect rather than just having the screen scroll.

On the positive side:

1. The backgrounds are nice. The tilework is pretty damn good.
2. The sound effects are good. I don't think I heard them all though (never died).
3. The ability to run in the game is a very nice touch. Gives ya an additional sense of strategy.
4. The control scheme works beautifully. Y'all got that one spot-on.
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: esteban on February 26, 2012, 05:29:23 AM
OK, who is willing to send me a copy so Rover isn't the only one with a constructive critique (http://junk.tg-16.com/images/pcgs.html).

I'll be playing it on many hardware configurations TG-16+TG-CD, US DUO, JP DUO, CG+SCD. (http://junk.tg-16.com/images/pcgs.html)

I'll pay for shipping/materials.
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: roflmao on February 26, 2012, 05:58:07 AM
OK, who is willing to send me a copy so Rover isn't the only one with a constructive critique (http://junk.tg-16.com/images/pcgs.html).


I'll mail you a copy.  PM me your address and I'll try to get it out tomorrow. (http://junk.tg-16.com/images/pcgs.html)
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: Arkhan on February 26, 2012, 07:18:37 AM
I guess I could make the ghost houses bigger and see if it fixes things, lol.

1. I'm not entertained. :( It's interesting at first but because the levels are so big, it gets redundant. Fast. Smaller maps would help a lot. I had to shut it off after the second level.
If you aren't entertained by the concept of Pac Man, this won't help you either.

Quote
3. Music gets irritating quickly.
It's a beta.  There are going to be more songs to mix it up, lol.  Wouldn't be very useful to release a beta with the entire soundtrack!

Quote
4. No pause button.
It's coming.  Fixing the crashbug has to be done before any other things get added.

Quote
5. The sprites aren't very impressive-looking.
Aw, I thought Keranu did a good job on the stuff.  I drew the hero-guy, and the mummies though.  The mummies are kinda special looking.

Quote
6. The "teleport" detail looks amateurish. It would look better if you did some kind of melt-and-vanish effect rather than just having the screen scroll.
Another detail to be worked out after the crashbug.  I anticipate blinking him and scrolling him over, faster. 

Freezing the enemies while scrolling is a definite no-go.  That's part of the gamble of teleporting.
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: Keranu on February 26, 2012, 08:05:14 AM
Yeah I only designed the enemy sprites from level 2 and up. I was thinking though Arkhan, I can touch up on your player and mummy animations if you want so they don't look so "waggily" when they move. You know, like I did for Insanity X.
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: esteban on February 26, 2012, 08:20:29 AM
OK, who is willing to send me a copy so Rover isn't the only one with a constructive critique (http://junk.tg-16.com/images/pcgs.html).


I'll mail you a copy.  PM me your address and I'll try to get it out tomorrow. (http://junk.tg-16.com/images/pcgs.html)


You rock (http://junk.tg-16.com/images/pcgs.html). PM forthcoming.
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: Arkhan on February 26, 2012, 08:58:37 AM
Yeah I only designed the enemy sprites from level 2 and up. I was thinking though Arkhan, I can touch up on your player and mummy animations if you want so they don't look so "waggily" when they move. You know, like I did for Insanity X.

if you want to, lol.

I'm pretty shitty at animating.
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: esteban on February 26, 2012, 09:26:47 AM
Yeah I only designed the enemy sprites from level 2 and up. I was thinking though Arkhan, I can touch up on your player and mummy animations if you want so they don't look so "waggily" when they move. You know, like I did for Insanity X.


Could we have two or more selectable character sprites? Or, even better, make this unlockable.

And, for once in a video game, let's do something beyond "Stout Indiana Jones Plunders the Pyramids". Let's have a goddamn FELINE (he/she has to be CUTE) plundering the pyramid! And, for achieving certain milestones on each board, our hero should meow/purr.

And, I want FELINE MUMMIES (this is actually historically accurate!).

I AM SERIOUS. (http://junk.tg-16.com/images/pcgs.html) Seriously, I'm not kidding.

I'm sure other playable characters would be sweet, too (e.g. the goddess Isis, a 1972 Honda Civic Hatchback, a 5 1/4" floppy diskette, "Slinky" from Somer Assault/Mesopotamia, Seabloon, Anto, Ghostcloth or any of the characters/enemies from Neutopia (or Dungeon Explorer),  an undulating block of tofu, a crayon, a snowman, La Pinta, La Niña, La Santa María, a hopping cup of coffee that is always splashing, etc.)

Anyway, I'm so serious it hurts.
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: Arkhan on February 26, 2012, 09:35:35 AM
lol, well, the idea was kinda to keep one character for this, named Alabama Smith or something.
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: esteban on February 26, 2012, 09:41:31 AM
lol, well, the idea was kinda to keep one character for this, named Alabama Smith or something.


I hear you.

Hmmm, would you consider a hopping Moai as a playable character? I like the whole "Easter Island meets Egypt" mashup.

(http://junk.tg-16.com/images/pcgs.html)

Alternatively, if you want to keep the existing sprite, can you refer to him as "Herr Doktor Veelgüd" (a German national) in the documentation and have him addicted to morphine (his backstory).
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: Arkhan on February 26, 2012, 10:20:33 AM
lol.  wow.
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: ParanoiaDragon on February 26, 2012, 12:12:53 PM
I like Alabama Smith, I fully approve! 8)
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: nodtveidt on February 26, 2012, 01:12:35 PM
If you aren't entertained by the concept of Pac Man, this won't help you either.
Every time you give me an answer like this, I wanna hit you with a bag of Clue board games. :P The Pac Man concept isn't the problem. Pac Man is fine. The problem is the large maps... it draws out the levels too much and it gets stale. Of course, this is just my personal impression... others' mileage may vary.

Aw, I thought Keranu did a good job on the stuff.  I drew the hero-guy, and the mummies though.  The mummies are kinda special looking.
I don't know which ones were drawn by who. I just know that the main character and the enemies you run over after you touch the ankhs are rather dull-looking and could use improvement. Those are the ones I was referring to. Everything else looks fine.

Freezing the enemies while scrolling is a definite no-go.  That's part of the gamble of teleporting.
Good design strategy, though I wasn't suggesting making the game freeze... just making it look less amateurish by implementing a more impressive technique. Making him just float up or down, through solid walls, looks terrible. And give it a sound effect! hehe :)
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: Arkhan on February 26, 2012, 01:24:02 PM
Every time you give me an answer like this, I wanna hit you with a bag of Clue board games. :P The Pac Man concept isn't the problem. Pac Man is fine. The problem is the large maps... it draws out the levels too much and it gets stale. Of course, this is just my personal impression... others' mileage may vary.
The only reason I give this response is because some Pac Man fans have a different opinion on the fun-factor of the game...  So that leads me to believe pac man fans will like it, and pac man "eh its ok, I guess" people won't find much fun.

Plus, the large levels are part of the reason there is a dash button.  Backtrack with ease!

Quote
I don't know which ones were drawn by who. I just know that the main character and the enemies you run over after you touch the ankhs are rather dull-looking and could use improvement. Those are the ones I was referring to. Everything else looks fine.
Those are palette swaps when you hit the ankhs. 

Quote
Good design strategy, though I wasn't suggesting making the game freeze... just making it look less amateurish by implementing a more impressive technique. Making him just float up or down, through solid walls, looks terrible. And give it a sound effect! hehe :)
I wasn't responding to anything you had said there, lol.  Someone else said make the enemies stop moving when you teleport.  Adding an effect is jerkoff polish.  same with the sound effect that would go with it.

Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: nodtveidt on February 26, 2012, 01:29:28 PM
The only reason I give this response is because some Pac Man fans have a different opinion on the fun-factor of the game...  So that leads me to believe pac man fans will like it, and pac man "eh its ok, I guess" people won't find much fun.

Plus, the large levels are part of the reason there is a dash button.  Backtrack with ease!
Fair enough, I suppose. Doesn't seem to keep my interest though. Ah well... maybe I should try it again.

Those are palette swaps when you hit the ankhs.
I figured that part out already. :P The character designs are rather lacking, that's what I'm saying. They don't look as good as they could.

I wasn't responding to anything you had said there, lol.  Someone else said make the enemies stop moving when you teleport.  Adding an effect is jerkoff polish.  same with the sound effect that would go with it.
"Jerkoff polish"... hehe. :D Such "jerkoff polish" can make the difference between a "meh... it's alright" game and a "hey this is cool" game.
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: Arkhan on February 26, 2012, 01:38:28 PM
Keranu said he could give the hero and mummies some treatment, so, we'll  have to see how that goes.  But, you only played two levels so you didn't even see the other enemy types... you're missing out.


"Jerkoff polish"... hehe. :D Such "jerkoff polish" can make the difference between a "meh... it's alright" game and a "hey this is cool" game.

Jerkoff polish is best left for when the core of the game is operating properly.  Otherwise you just jerked off all over a pile of shit.  etc.

:)

Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: futureman2000 on February 26, 2012, 01:41:54 PM
If you hold button I with turbo on (middle selection on the turbo-switch), then you can get a decent speed boost while still picking up the gold bars.
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: Keranu on February 26, 2012, 01:48:57 PM
I like the way the teleports look as is, I just think they should be faster or more instantaneous to not interrupt the flow of the game. I love the arcade look of the game. The main character looks cute and 80's, Arkhan did a great job on his design!

I agree with Nod though about the boards being big, it does feel like a drag when you're on the other side of the board collecting gold without a enemy in sight; it takes away from the Pac Man feel. And when there's five stages of this for each level, it does make me want to quit playing after the first couple screens. I don't think it's necessarily a problem with the board size, maybe the ghosts need to pursue the player more (and I assume they do as the game progresses).
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: Keranu on February 26, 2012, 01:49:20 PM
If you hold button I with turbo on (middle selection on the turbo-switch), then you can get a decent speed boost while still picking up the gold bars.
Yeah I noticed that too by tapping the button! Fun technique.
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: Arkhan on February 26, 2012, 01:52:12 PM
If you hold button I with turbo on (middle selection on the turbo-switch), then you can get a decent speed boost while still picking up the gold bars.
Yeah I noticed that too by tapping the button! Fun technique.

I was waiting for people to catch it.  :)  It's like the pussy-way to play, but still fun!

I notice myself that the ghost-AI is semi-retarded at times and doesn't chase you much.   The diabolical level maps later on kind of make up for it, but I could see the ghosts getting a bit smarter/harder.

I'm glad the "arcade look" is achieved successfully, as that is the idea.
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: Keranu on February 26, 2012, 02:10:25 PM
For what it's worth, I caught the bug on 1 - 4 yet again.

(http://i44.tinypic.com/6qyz9i.jpg)
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: Vecanti on February 26, 2012, 02:43:55 PM
Just had my first crash.  Maybe the mummy half out of the spawn area is telling?  I don't know.

EDIT:
Just thought I'd add that after the crash I kept pressing I and it went frame by frame. Slowly the mummy walked through the wall and eventually came through the wall and back on the main game screen.  The game un-froze and started playing again!  It takes like 16 key presses (frames)  I just added 3 frames after the initial freeze.  I happened to do a save state when it first froze.  

This is how it first froze:
(http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg192/scaled.php?server=192&filename=2rh1fd5.jpg&res=medium)

This was later when I pressed the I button several times:
(http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg526/scaled.php?server=526&filename=2w32o01.jpg&res=medium)

Several more I button presses:
(http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg404/scaled.php?server=404&filename=noysg5.jpg&res=medium)


Here it starts playing again, you can see "High Score" comes back but the 2 on Wal 024C error is still there.

(http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg577/scaled.php?server=577&filename=5agdb8.jpg&res=medium)
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: Vecanti on February 26, 2012, 03:42:45 PM
Reproduced it on 1-5 again.  Same thing, freezes when the mummy is stuck in the wall.  If I keep pressing I the mummy, frame by frame, walks through the wall and then the game resumes.  

(http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg205/scaled.php?server=205&filename=zkhle1.jpg&res=medium)

Just adding a 2nd pic as it further through the wall.
(http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg528/scaled.php?server=528&filename=121cv29.jpg&res=medium)
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: Keranu on February 26, 2012, 04:16:54 PM
Yeah it unfreezes for me too after pressing I like 5-10 times.
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: Arkhan on February 26, 2012, 04:43:10 PM
Yeah, so we see here, it is a case of mummy-on-wall + me making tiny ghost houses.

:)

In other news, how are you people liking the maps?  Are they too douche-tastic?  Things that seem like a good idea to me, may be a punch in the dick to everyone playing.
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: ParanoiaDragon on February 26, 2012, 04:49:03 PM
Just had my first crash.  Maybe the mummy half out of the spawn area is telling?  I don't know.

EDIT:
Just thought I'd add that after the crash I kept pressing I and it went frame by frame. Slowly the mummy walked through the wall and eventually came through the wall and back on the main game screen.  The game un-froze and started playing again!  It takes like 16 key presses (frames)  I just added 3 frames after the initial freeze.  I happened to do a save state when it first froze.  


That is neither a crash, nor a bug, it's a feature!! :D
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: Arkhan on February 26, 2012, 05:18:45 PM
lol.

BEST FEATURE EVER.
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: Arkhan on February 27, 2012, 03:17:33 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paganitzu

Looks like someone beat me to the punch on Alabama Smith.

I thought I'd heard the name before.  Damn.

Maybe I can contact the guy and get permission to use the name.  Seeing as it's a shareware game and all..

hmmm :)
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: spenoza on February 27, 2012, 07:47:32 AM
You could go for Mississippi Joe instead, or something like that. There are lots of combinations that are just as good as Alabama Smith.

Also, I concur that there is a need for some smaller, faster-paced levels to help the game pace. Either that or slightly modified enemy AI routines for the larger levels.
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: Arkhan on February 27, 2012, 07:57:18 AM
Alabama Smith has the best ring to it though.

I could shrink the maps.  That seems to be the concensus so far.  The levels are too big and the ghosts are too dumb.
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: futureman2000 on February 27, 2012, 08:15:52 AM
Seems that shrinking the maps would make this just like pac-man. I wonder if there is some element that could be added to the game that would make traveling the maps quicker, but without making the game easier. Something like a whip that lets you collect bars down a row, along with faster or more numerous mummies.
Also, I suggest "North Dakota Dale" for the protagonist.
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: Necromancer on February 27, 2012, 08:22:32 AM
I can't wait to play this tonight.  8)

As for the name, esteban already gave you the best one: Herr Doktor Veelgüd.  Umlauts, f*ck yeah!
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: ParanoiaDragon on February 27, 2012, 08:57:55 AM
Montanna Jones!  AHHHHHHH, already taken!  :D http://www.gamefaqs.com/3do/569469-montana-jones

All seriousness aside, I really like the idea of a whip that you can pick up, that has a limit number of times it can be used, that stretches the screen to get a full line of bars!
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: nodtveidt on February 27, 2012, 09:05:25 AM
You could name him Gerald, and he could also appear in a platformer. :)
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: Arkhan on February 27, 2012, 09:11:35 AM
if his names geralds, this game needs WAY MOOAR COMTINTS

Alabama Smith is the best, but a recent game also uses the name, so it is out.

How about Arizona Joe
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: Black Tiger on February 27, 2012, 09:13:14 AM
Instead of only shrinking the maps, how about keeping them as an alternate quest/mode and make the smaller maps the "normal" game?
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: Mishran on February 27, 2012, 10:19:07 AM
Haven't had a chance to try this yet, but hopefully I can remedy that tonight. How about Dakota James? :-k
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: Arkhan on February 27, 2012, 11:16:37 AM
Texas Tim!

Dallas Dave?

Oklahoma Hank?

Vegas Roy?

loolol
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: Mishran on February 27, 2012, 11:39:56 AM
Wisconsin Willy!
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: Vecanti on February 27, 2012, 01:02:54 PM
Indiana Bones
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: Arkhan on February 27, 2012, 01:04:28 PM
This isn't a porno.
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: Vecanti on February 27, 2012, 01:26:06 PM
I guess should stop trying to find the cheat code to unlock it then.
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: Keranu on February 27, 2012, 01:48:24 PM
Texas Tim!

Dallas Dave?

Oklahoma Hank?

Vegas Roy?

loolol
LOL Oklahoma Hank.

Nebraskan Dan.
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: Mishran on February 27, 2012, 02:02:27 PM
This isn't a porno.
Mine wasn't meant to be dirty...
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: guyjin on February 27, 2012, 02:04:08 PM
dangit, don't have any CD-rs, and I can't figure out how to get any emulators to read a flunking iso... :evil:
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: Arkhan on February 27, 2012, 02:27:27 PM
dangit, don't have any CD-rs, and I can't figure out how to get any emulators to read a flunking iso... :evil:

Mount that shit in Daemon Tools, and use Ootake.  It'll recognize the virtual drive as a real drive, and boot that shit. 
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: Arkhan on February 27, 2012, 02:27:48 PM
KANSAS KEEN

im pretty sure I can't use Keen without getting butt f*cked by id.
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: Keranu on February 27, 2012, 04:41:28 PM
dangit, don't have any CD-rs, and I can't figure out how to get any emulators to read a flunking iso... :evil:

Mount that shit in Daemon Tools, and use Ootake.  It'll recognize the virtual drive as a real drive, and boot that shit. 
I use Alcohol 52% for mounting ISOs these days. Daemon Tools kept giving me blue screen errors whenever I had it installed on Windows XP, just a fair warning.
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: roflmao on February 27, 2012, 04:46:27 PM
I've been using MagicDisc (http://magiciso.com/tutorials/miso-magicdisc-overview.htm) for the past year or so and it's been working great.  Easy as pie to use as well.

EDIT: I haven't tried using it with a PCE emulator.  It's just what I use whenever I want to play one of my games that requires a CD. I hate having to dig out old CD/DVDs so I've just ripped a bunch of them and have them as ISOs on my hard drive.  (also handy for my netbook, which doesn't have a disc drive)
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: ParanoiaDragon on February 27, 2012, 05:35:41 PM
Indiana Bones

Already exists.  There's a dog grooming place in my area, I think it's a chain, though, possibly a local chain, rather then nationwide. It's called Indiana Bones & the Temple of Groom, I kid you not!
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: Keranu on February 27, 2012, 05:37:34 PM
Indiana Bones

Already exists.  There's a dog grooming place in my area, I think it's a chain, though, possibly a local chain, rather then nationwide. It's called Indiana Bones & the Temple of Groom, I kid you not!
lmao
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: Vecanti on February 27, 2012, 05:41:12 PM
Indiana Bones

Already exists.  There's a dog grooming place in my area, I think it's a chain, though, possibly a local chain, rather then nationwide. It's called Indiana Bones & the Temple of Groom, I kid you not!

Oh my god.  I would love a photo if you ever happen to get a chance someday. 

Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: ParanoiaDragon on February 27, 2012, 07:35:20 PM
Ask & ye shall recieve!  I just googled it.  Next time I'm around it, I'll try to remember to take my own pic.
(http://kennymcnett.com/me/blog/uploaded_images/indianBones-755074.html)

That's actually the old location, I'm pretty sure they moved down the street a bit.  Also, across from the old location is a place called Nothing Bundt Cakes!
(http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lgtzrunEC01qa2mov.jpg)

And down the street is "I can't believe it's a law firm?!"  kidding, but those are kinda Simpson'ish, makes me think of Yogurt Nook & A lot to do about Nuts!

Also, when my dad was a kid, his family was on a roadtrip somewhere in the south, & they saw a place called something along the lines of "Tough Steaks & Muddy Coffee", so my grandpa just had to eat there because he loved the name.  My dad said the food was really good, though, I have no idea if the place is still around, that was probably in the...40's or possibly 50's I'm guessing since my dad said he was a kid at the time.
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: Arkhan on February 28, 2012, 01:51:22 AM
Louisiana Lou?
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: touko on February 28, 2012, 02:08:48 AM
Bannana joe ??

bonky bob ???

Captain nibbles ??
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: Arkhan on February 28, 2012, 02:10:32 AM
Honkey Harold?
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: touko on February 28, 2012, 02:11:57 AM
Hobby-want shinobi ??
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: KingDrool on February 28, 2012, 03:10:45 AM
Tennessee Williams.

You're welcome. ;)
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: spenoza on February 28, 2012, 05:45:16 AM
Montana Max is already taken. I like Arkansas Joe. Sounds better spoken than it looks, though.
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: Arkhan on February 28, 2012, 06:35:06 AM
California Chris!

Georgia Gary?

Pyramid Pete?

Oklahoma Jackson
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: guyjin on February 28, 2012, 06:54:40 AM
Rhode Eylund!
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: touko on February 28, 2012, 06:57:16 AM
Billy babeloula (she's my babyyyy) .
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: lord_cack on February 28, 2012, 09:01:34 AM
I second Gerald.... but if he has to have a goofy name lets go with...., nope got nothing Gerald would be awesome :dance:
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: spenoza on February 28, 2012, 09:42:13 AM
Pyramid Pete is pretty good. Stays with the theme, too. It is just the right amount of corny to go with all the retro.
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: Arkhan on February 28, 2012, 10:24:17 AM
Yeah Pyramid Pete, or Spelunkin' Steve
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: ParanoiaDragon on February 28, 2012, 04:40:28 PM
I second Gerald.... but if he has to have a goofy name lets go with...., nope got nothing Gerald would be awesome :dance:

Does Arky even know who Gerald is? :)
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: Arkhan on February 28, 2012, 05:14:44 PM
are we talking about Geralds?
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: Vecanti on February 28, 2012, 06:25:16 PM
Pat McRotch

Ophelia Teats 
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: lord_cack on February 28, 2012, 09:14:17 PM
are we talking about Geralds?

No, Gerald is the name of Player Two in Jungle Bros.

The lead characters name is JB, the Second player (his Bros.) is named Gerald
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: Arkhan on February 29, 2012, 12:26:10 AM
Justin Bieber and Gerald!!1!1!11
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: Arkhan on March 01, 2012, 02:54:09 PM
UPDATED MAIN POST.

NEW IMAGE TO DOWNLOAD WITH DEBUG SCREEN.

GET IT. WHUTTTTT
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: Vecanti on March 01, 2012, 03:24:50 PM
(http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg4/scaled.php?server=4&filename=34fgtj5.jpg&res=medium)
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: Keranu on March 01, 2012, 04:44:41 PM
Wow, cool glitch. Or is that some sort of strobe light dance party mode you unlocked?
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: spenoza on March 01, 2012, 04:53:07 PM
Wow, cool glitch. Or is that some sort of strobe light dance party mode you unlocked?

It can't be a dance party mode. There's no disco sparkle ball.
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: Vecanti on March 01, 2012, 05:19:17 PM
I thought maybe that was the debug screen?
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: Arkhan on March 02, 2012, 12:27:07 AM
I can't see the picture you posted, lol.  WHAT IS IT.
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: Vecanti on March 02, 2012, 01:59:18 AM
I can't see the picture you posted, lol.  WHAT IS IT.
Weird, I uploaded it to tinypic, changed it to imageshack now.  Did you see any of those other pics I posted earlier in the thread?  Oh well, I thought this was the new debug screen.  :)
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: TheOldMan on March 02, 2012, 03:02:03 AM
Quote
Oh well, I thought this was the new debug screen.  :)
It is. And it is telling me a few interesting things. I oopsed and forgot to print the level, though :)
Did you find a pattern to reproduce this?
FYI, I've been saving the screen shots, so I can refer to them :)

[In case you are really interested. That line at the bottom tells me the problem happens in the 'at home' state.
But what's interesting is none of the flags are set. It appears to be a problem just walking back and forth....
Or I didn't dump the right flag. More work needed, I guess....]
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: Vecanti on March 02, 2012, 06:33:01 AM
Yeah, I can reproduce it pretty easily on level 1-5. Just get a mummy or  two in the home area then I go to the top of the screen and walk up and down over and over on the same 2 squares at the regular walking speed and wait for the mummy to come out of the wall.
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: TheOldMan on March 02, 2012, 07:37:38 AM
Quote
Yeah, I can reproduce it pretty easily on level 1-5
Perfect! I will make sure -I- can do it this weekend. If it works out, the bug should be gone fairly soon :)
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: Arkhan on March 02, 2012, 09:11:04 AM
I can do it here too.   :) Gave it a shot.
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: Vecanti on March 02, 2012, 05:31:01 PM
Here's level 1-4

(http://i44.tinypic.com/10f6g6a.jpg)
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: Vecanti on March 02, 2012, 05:57:40 PM
I found one way to freeze it ever single time on level 1-5.  

You have to have one of the things that pauses the mummies.  So as soon as level 1-5 starts, press II to freeze the mummies right away, now go to the right and get the first cross to turn the mummies purple and get that first mummy right there.  Now once the timer runs out it will freeze.  First I thought I had to be running against a wall, but it seems it will freeze no matter what.  

If you keep pressing I to unfreeze the game and then press II again right away (if you still have one of the mummy pause things) then you can freeze the game again.

EDIT:

Same thing on 1-4 and 2-5 so far as well.
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: Vecanti on March 02, 2012, 06:21:43 PM
Here is level 2-5:
(http://i44.tinypic.com/2cz7gr6.jpg)

After the pink scorpion came through the wall he got stuck in the empty area :)

(http://i39.tinypic.com/2encnk9.jpg)
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: Arkhan on March 03, 2012, 06:28:07 AM
Vecanti: Master Bug Hunter
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: Vecanti on March 03, 2012, 10:26:14 AM
Vecanti: Master Bug Hunter
Well, it's actually a pretty fun game and I think it's more that I've spent too many hours playing. :)  Not a huge Pac Man fan, but I love Ms. PacMan ( I know that makes no sense probably ) and this reminds me a lot of Ms. Pacman on steroids.  With all the "weapons" and the added strategy of just being able to walk fast when needed, this games a gem.
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: Keranu on March 03, 2012, 10:54:31 AM
Yeah the bonus items are coming along nicely so far. I love the run bonus!
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: Arkhan on March 03, 2012, 12:28:03 PM
Vecanti: Master Bug Hunter
Well, it's actually a pretty fun game and I think it's more that I've spent too many hours playing. :)  Not a huge Pac Man fan, but I love Ms. PacMan ( I know that makes no sense probably ) and this reminds me a lot of Ms. Pacman on steroids.  With all the "weapons" and the added strategy of just being able to walk fast when needed, this games a gem.


just wait til you hear the rest of the music! :)

Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: esteban on March 03, 2012, 06:32:56 PM
Real Hardware --> SUPERCD+White PCE: I'm playing the older image of Pyramid Plunder + the music from Maniac Pro Wrestling and, surprisingly, they complement each other nicely (subsong 13, as I type this...). No, I'm not joking. (http://junk.tg-16.com/images/pcgLT.html)

I really think you should consider my earlier suggestions (especially incorporating Moai in the game, by any means necessary...)  (http://junk.tg-16.com/images/pcgRT.html)

Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: Arkhan on March 04, 2012, 08:37:27 AM
lol.

Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: spenoza on March 04, 2012, 06:49:48 PM
OK, finally had some time to sit down and get in some quality play time with Pyramid Plunder. Most of my observations have already been made by others, but I think I have a couple insights which are original.

1) The music is really interesting, though it does get a tad repetitive given how long it takes to clear such large levels.

2) The sound effects are retro AND appropriate. Same for the graphics. Good job!

3) I love the run ability, and I like that you have to stop running to pick anything up. It might be worth making a minor tweak to try and nerf the use of the medium turbo speed to both run AND interact with stuff.

4) The level scrolling is too loose. I can get WAY too close to the edge of the screen before the level scrolls over. This makes it very difficult to know if it is safe to wander into off-screen territory. The mini-map helps, but if you're looking at the mini-map you're not looking at the screen.

5) I find the mini-map most useful to figure out where the enemies are when I get a power pellet and to figure out where the rest of the level is relative to me. It is not as useful in the moment when I'm trying to figure out what's off-screen immediately in the direction I'm headed, in part because that's a little too imminent for me to want to try to switch focus.

6 a) The levels are just too big. The ability to run helps, but when you're doing actual work, picking up pellets, nabbing baddies, and trying to actually grab the power-ups that float on-screen, you have to be walking, so you are inherently slow going about the real business of the game. Between how long it takes to clear the level and the enemy AI, the levels start to drag about 1/3 to 1/2 in. The Pac-man AI works well for small boards, but it gets quite lost on these larger levels

6 b) I like the IDEA of big levels, and I think there can be a place in the game for them, but they're likely to need a bit of reworking. Perhaps a more aggressive AI that is quite different from Pac-man, more off-screen wrap locales, and faster warps. Basically, if there's a way to speed up play on the larger levels, either by ensuring there's a steady stream of power-ups to speed up the characters or warps, wraps, and other shortcuts to zip around the level, then they'll become more interesting and more challenging. I do like some of your big map layouts, and I hope you don't scrap larger maps altogether so much as find a way to make them work a little better, perhaps intermixed with smaller, faster levels.

6 c) Maybe the larger maps could be challenge levels. Have a series of smaller (but still possibly bigger than a single screen, in some cases) maps and then have a huge map as a challenge map. Might be worth playing with the idea of more than 4 enemies, and even a second respawn base, on the bigger maps. That would also let you introduce more AI routines. It could be quite dangerous and cluster-f*ck-y, but it could also make for more opportunities to score big points taking down enemies with power pellets. Any changes like these, however, would probably require lots of extra play-testing, so that's a major drawback.

7) The combination of the late level scrolling and the fast movement power-up is almost as dangerous as it is useful. It is great fun as long as you're staying on your current screen, but as soon as you have to move to a new area and scroll the screen, it becomes quite dangerous, because of the small view distance and the high rate of speed. Might be nice to have the run button (as in the button that makes you run, not the Run button) slow you down when you have the speed power-up as a way to give you some finer control back.

8) Some of the enemies seem very reluctant to leave the enemy base/home. I had one game where one of the baddies spent almost the entire latter half of a level just wandering back and forth in the base and not popping out for me to either flee or kill.

9) Because the levels are so big, currently, it can take the ghosts of the enemies a really long-ass time to get back to the base to respawn.

10) The ghosts are adorable. I love their bouncy locomotion.

11) The little Indiana Jones jingle at the start screen is a cute homage, but it REALLY doesn't mesh well musically with the title theme that immediately follows it.

12) I think your engine is technically sound. Everything looks and sounds good, and everything plays pretty well, at least until the screen scrolls or until I've played half the level and am starting to get a little burned out on the level taking too long to finish.

13) Is there any chance you could/would implement a little bit of a control buffer? Let me see if I can explain what I mean. If I'm walking down a corridor to a T intersection, where I can go either left or right, if I don't push left or right I just stop and run in place. OK, that's cool. If I hit left or right a square early but don't hold it, I also stop. It might be nice if it buffered the last direction press for a few milliseconds/a full map square until it can actually perform the desired direction. That way you could just tap left or right as you get close to the intersection and if your timing isn't perfect you don't just run into the wall and stand there. I tend to prefer tapping the Dpad to holding the Dpad in these constant motion-type games, and if the directional presses aren't buffered just a little, it makes the tapping style of play a little harder vs the holding style, IMO. I realize this is kind of an esoteric complaint, but it was salient for me.

14) It was interesting to try and figure out what the power-ups do. Some of them are more valuable than others, but they do add a nice variety to the game.

I guess I'll post again if I have any other thoughts on the game. So far I'm pretty impressed. I do hope this title continues to mature nicely.

Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: Arkhan on March 05, 2012, 12:53:43 AM
1) The music is really interesting, though it does get a tad repetitive given how long it takes to clear such large levels.
Yeah.  There are more tracks coming to switch it up some.  If the maps get shrunk and become faster to clear, this should be less of an issue.

Quote
2) The sound effects are retro AND appropriate. Same for the graphics. Good job!
Damn straight!

Quote
3) I love the run ability, and I like that you have to stop running to pick anything up. It might be worth making a minor tweak to try and nerf the use of the medium turbo speed to both run AND interact with stuff.
It's difficult to nerf that.  It's like the spinflip flying in Bonk.  It's up to the player to not be a sissy, I guess.  :)

Quote
4) The level scrolling is too loose. I can get WAY too close to the edge of the screen before the level scrolls over. This makes it very difficult to know if it is safe to wander into off-screen territory. The mini-map helps, but if you're looking at the mini-map you're not looking at the screen.
Anyone else besides Spenoza, and I think TheOldRover agree with this?  I've heard it both ways.  I guess it could be shrunk if enough people think it should be.


Quote
6 a) The levels are just too big. The ability to run helps, but when you're doing actual work, picking up pellets, nabbing baddies, and trying to actually grab the power-ups that float on-screen, you have to be walking, so you are inherently slow going about the real business of the game. Between how long it takes to clear the level and the enemy AI, the levels start to drag about 1/3 to 1/2 in. The Pac-man AI works well for small boards, but it gets quite lost on these larger levels

6 b) I like the IDEA of big levels, and I think there can be a place in the game for them, but they're likely to need a bit of reworking. Perhaps a more aggressive AI that is quite different from Pac-man, more off-screen wrap locales, and faster warps. Basically, if there's a way to speed up play on the larger levels, either by ensuring there's a steady stream of power-ups to speed up the characters or warps, wraps, and other shortcuts to zip around the level, then they'll become more interesting and more challenging. I do like some of your big map layouts, and I hope you don't scrap larger maps altogether so much as find a way to make them work a little better, perhaps intermixed with smaller, faster levels.
The big maps were a bit of a gamble, and I couldn't gauge their playability very well while making them.  That's what everyones testing is for :).  Alot of stuff that seems good on paper (the map editor) may end up being awful to play.   I looked at a few of the maps and can definitely see how some of them might be f*ckin annoying.  What I was thinking about doing was similar to what you see in the scorpion screen from Vecanti. 

Keep the maps big, but make sections that are fully blocked off and pelette-less, so they are mostly just decoration.   I tried to use as much of the maps as possible for pelette grabbing.  That may have been a mistake. :)

What makes the big maps drawn out is that I've put too many gold bars on all the maps, I think. 


Quote
6 c) Maybe the larger maps could be challenge levels. Have a series of smaller (but still possibly bigger than a single screen, in some cases) maps and then have a huge map as a challenge map. Might be worth playing with the idea of more than 4 enemies, and even a second respawn base, on the bigger maps. That would also let you introduce more AI routines. It could be quite dangerous and cluster-f*ck-y, but it could also make for more opportunities to score big points taking down enemies with power pellets. Any changes like these, however, would probably require lots of extra play-testing, so that's a major drawback.
I don't know if two houses would be a great idea (would require rewriting the ghost AI significantly, iirc).  What I might do is tweak it so the maps go from little to big with each world.

Quote
7) The combination of the late level scrolling and the fast movement power-up is almost as dangerous as it is useful. It is great fun as long as you're staying on your current screen, but as soon as you have to move to a new area and scroll the screen, it becomes quite dangerous, because of the small view distance and the high rate of speed. Might be nice to have the run button (as in the button that makes you run, not the Run button) slow you down when you have the speed power-up as a way to give you some finer control back.
Think of it like the hammer in Donkey Kong.


Quote
8) Some of the enemies seem very reluctant to leave the enemy base/home. I had one game where one of the baddies spent almost the entire latter half of a level just wandering back and forth in the base and not popping out for me to either flee or kill.

9) Because the levels are so big, currently, it can take the ghosts of the enemies a really long-ass time to get back to the base to respawn.
Yeah.  The ghosts are kind of derp.


Quote
11) The little Indiana Jones jingle at the start screen is a cute homage, but it REALLY doesn't mesh well musically with the title theme that immediately follows it.
That was the point, lol.

Quote
14) It was interesting to try and figure out what the power-ups do. Some of them are more valuable than others, but they do add a nice variety to the game.
They'll be explained in the manual, lol.

There are up to 5 enemies per world. 


So far, key things that need addressed:
---------------------------------------
Make the maps less brutal/tedious
Make the scroll point closer to the character
Make the ghosts less retarded

Yeah?

Fixing the ghost-crash-wall-doom is first though.
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: ParanoiaDragon on March 05, 2012, 03:53:02 AM
Quote
4) The level scrolling is too loose. I can get WAY too close to the edge of the screen before the level scrolls over. This makes it very difficult to know if it is safe to wander into off-screen territory. The mini-map helps, but if you're looking at the mini-map you're not looking at the screen.

For me, probably more then anything, this needs to be addressed.  It's like Exile 2, that's not a good thing :)  My second biggest gripe probably would be the large mazes.  I like the idea of there maybe being smaller mazes, & then a large trickier maze/boss level at the end of each world.
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: Arkhan on March 05, 2012, 04:04:35 AM
For me, probably more then anything, this needs to be addressed.  It's like Exile 2, that's not a good thing :)  My second biggest gripe probably would be the large mazes.  I like the idea of there maybe being smaller mazes, & then a large trickier maze/boss level at the end of each world.

Yeah.  The scrolling should probably be tweaked.


As for the maps, I can tone them down and make it so you don't have to get so many bars to win. 

That should make it better.  I hope.
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: KingDrool on March 05, 2012, 05:12:48 AM
Finally played it yesterday and really, really love it. Yes, the larger levels are a bit cumbersome; at least for the first few levels when there isn't really much challenge. I could stand to have more enemies on the map to add a bit of intensity, but perhaps that's just me.

Great job, though! Can't wait to play the final version.
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: Arkhan on March 05, 2012, 05:26:52 AM
Shrinking the maps and making them less retarded should make things more difficult.  These maps are poorly done.  They'd work great for D&D though (thats where my level experience comes from!)
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: spenoza on March 05, 2012, 08:15:04 AM
So far, key things that need addressed:
---------------------------------------
Make the maps less brutal/tedious
Make the scroll point closer to the character
Make the ghosts less retarded

Yeah?

Fixing the ghost-crash-wall-doom is first though.

Jya, das moesly eet.

What are your thoughts on the directional flexibility/buffering issue? I'm just curious to know what you think.
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: TheOldMan on March 06, 2012, 05:46:19 AM
Quote
I found one way to freeze it ever single time on level 1-5.
Okay, that one I can get to work all the time :o

There is something going wrong in the 'return to home' logic. By the time he hits the home base, he should have a new move ready - but he doesn't. I must have missed something somewhere. Or not updated that logic when I changed over to using a distance map for the homing routine.
I'm looking into it as tomorrows project :)
Hopefully, I'll have a new build this weekend - but don't hold me to that. Wife has plans for evenings this week, which cuts into my debugging time :(

..........
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I had one game where one of the baddies spent almost the entire latter half of a level just wandering back and forth in the base and not popping out for me to either flee or kill.
Thats related to the bug we are trying to fix. They actually -do- spawn, but immediately return to home base. (ie, they never get completely out of the ghost house)

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What are your thoughts on the directional flexibility/buffering issue?
No. Then you could do a bunch of moves, and they would play back, even if you -didn't- want them to.
The movement was carefully crafted to be like pac-man, and it works. If we change it much, you lose the ability to lose the ghosts with quick cornering.

And for everyone complaining about the scroll borders: That's the point of the scrolling! Use the radar to track the ghosts - it is accurate (1 pixel = 1 16x16 tile). It would lose a lot of challenge if you could see the ghosts coming from 5 or 6 tiles away.

Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: spenoza on March 06, 2012, 06:00:31 AM
Quote
What are your thoughts on the directional flexibility/buffering issue?
No. Then you could do a bunch of moves, and they would play back, even if you -didn't- want them to.
The movement was carefully crafted to be like pac-man, and it works. If we change it much, you lose the ability to lose the ghosts with quick cornering.

I appear to have explained this badly. I don't mean you queue up your moves. What I mean is that within a margin of, say, 3/4 to 1/2 a square of movement, your last directional input that was unable to be completed is implemented when it is possible. This is interruptable. This means as I approach a turn, within 3/4 a pellet (as a unit of space in the game) if I hit the direction early and I can't actually turn that direction yet because I'm still next to a wall, I will turn when I do get to where the open space is. If I change my mind and hit the other direction, as a more recent input, it will trump the waiting turn. That should have no negative effect on quick cornering at all, because your last input is still the priority input. The only time a controller input would be saved for any length of time at all would be if that move cannot be completed, you are within x distance of making that move a valid move, and the move hasn't been pre-empted by another input.

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And for everyone complaining about the scroll borders: That's the point of the scrolling! Use the radar to track the ghosts - it is accurate (1 pixel = 1 16x16 tile). It would lose a lot of challenge if you could see the ghosts coming from 5 or 6 tiles away.

This sounds like a rather poor attempt to do fog of war, which it really isn't since you have the minimap. If you are on a corner screen, you can see them coming from quite a distance depending on where you are, meaning the late scrolling seems a bit artificial as an attempt to introduce challenge. I found it far more irritating than I did challenging, and if the enemies had been more aggressive I would probably have found it to be more cheap than anything else.
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: Arkhan on March 06, 2012, 06:19:24 AM
I say the scrolling should be expanded 3 tiles for now.

Only because, the original Pac Man games didn't scroll L/R. They only went U/D, so you generally had a clear idea of where things were at and could survey the whole screen and move appropriately.   Usually, you can see all or at least half the ghosts on screen while you are playing..
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: TheOldMan on March 06, 2012, 06:45:51 AM
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What I mean is that within a margin of, say, 3/4 to 1/2 a square of movement, your last directional input that was unable to be completed is implemented when it is possible. This is interruptable. This means as I approach a turn, within 3/4 a pellet (as a unit of space in the game) if I hit the direction early and I can't actually turn that direction yet because I'm still next to a wall, I will turn when I do get to where the open space is. If I change my mind and hit the other direction, as a more recent input, it will trump the waiting turn. That should have no negative effect on quick cornering at all, because your last input is still the priority input.
Which actually means you will -always- be able to corner quickly, because your move will not take effect until you can. Pac-man turns require timing to get the most out of them.
It is possible, in both pac-man and pp, to actually turn when you are before or after the center point of the tile. If you turn early, you gain distance on the ghosts. If you turn late, you lose distance. It's all in -when- you turn.

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This sounds like a rather poor attempt to do fog of war, which it really isn't since you have the minimap. If you are on a corner screen, you can see them coming from quite a distance depending on where you are, meaning the late scrolling seems a bit artificial as an attempt to introduce challenge.
It's not the late scrolling that introduces the challenge: It's learning to use the map -before- you head into that new, unseen area. That's the whole reason the map exists.

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I say the scrolling should be expanded 3 tiles for now.
TO 3 tiles or BY 3 tiles?
If I could have found info on when Ms PacMan scrolls, I woulda used those borders.
How about it? Anyone know how far you have to be from the edge for a Ms PacMan map to scroll?
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: Arkhan on March 06, 2012, 06:55:17 AM
The screen only scrolls down/up and it scrolls as soon as Ms PacMan cuts the screen in half, basically.

The arcade one didn't scroll.  The screen was tall enough to not need it.
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: Keranu on March 06, 2012, 08:27:32 AM
And for everyone complaining about the scroll borders: That's the point of the scrolling! Use the radar to track the ghosts - it is accurate (1 pixel = 1 16x16 tile). It would lose a lot of challenge if you could see the ghosts coming from 5 or 6 tiles away.
I have to agree with spenoza on this one since I was having the same problem. The map is a nice feature, but it's hard to focus on the single pixel map ghosts while you're constantly running away from them. The scrolling doesn't bother me that much, the "surprise" value is kinda fun... maybe just expand it slightly.
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: Arkhan on March 06, 2012, 09:18:10 AM
I never have this issue.  Then again I play staring at the radar, lol.
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: nodtveidt on March 06, 2012, 11:40:01 AM
And for everyone complaining about the scroll borders: That's the point of the scrolling! Use the radar to track the ghosts - it is accurate (1 pixel = 1 16x16 tile). It would lose a lot of challenge if you could see the ghosts coming from 5 or 6 tiles away.
That is what is known as "bullshit difficulty". Challenge created from a technical flaw is not legitimate challenge.
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: Arkhan on March 06, 2012, 12:39:35 PM
That is what is known as "bullshit difficulty". Challenge created from a technical flaw is not legitimate challenge.

Uhmmmm..bullshit difficulty would be doing this without a radar.  You're given the means to avoid it.  This would be like complaining in Defender that you crash into shit because it scrolled on screen too fast.   Look at the radar and don't fly top speed into the unknown.

Also, it's not a technical flaw. 

Technical flaw would imply we've coded something wrong.  AKA: A bug, like the wall-glitch crashing.  This is us picking an arbitrary value and using it because it seems comfortable during testing.

Not to mention, I just fired the game up again.  It scrolls 2 tiles from the edges.  That gives you plenty of reaction time especially if you're watching the radar.

So, I am going to go out on a limb and call some of you sissies.  :)  You're not supposed to be pro at the game during

BETA TESTING.

also, you guys can handle dodging stuff in Blazing Lazers.  This is 2 tiles.  32 pixels.  With a radar to give you a heads up.  that's pretty decent for reaction-windows.

Just sayin'
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: TheOldMan on March 06, 2012, 12:54:21 PM
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That is what is known as "bullshit difficulty". Challenge created from a technical flaw is not legitimate challenge.
No, that is what is known as a play mechanic. Deliberately chosen values to force the player to split his attention.
I can easily change the scroll border to as many tiles as I like. There is no technical problem there. It's a deliberate decision. Sorry you don't like it.

I just don't understand the whole arguement here. Everyone says the levels are too big and boring. Fine. The first levels -should- be like that, so new players can learn how the game operates. Not everyone is a professional gamer.

Then people are saying the scrolling is too close to the edges. But if I make it 4 or 5 tiles, theres no need for anyone to pay attention to the radar. The same thing applies to smaller levels. Theres a reason the radar is there, and it was a concious decision. Shrink the levels and/or change the scrolling, and there's no need for the radar. Appreciate it for what it is, and learn to use it.
..........................................
So, how far has everyone gotten in it? Anybody make it to 3-1?  4-1?
What's your high scrore ?

Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: Arkhan on March 06, 2012, 01:12:08 PM
To be fair here, the levels don't need "shrinking" so much as they need some more dead-space where you don't have to grab anything.  I covered too much of the surface area of the levels with gold bars, making them completely tedious to deal with.  Some of them you almost walk on every tile for a bar.  It's too tedious.  I don't even like playing them and I made them.


Some dead space and thicker wall regions in some maps should help break up the monotony significantly.
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: nodtveidt on March 06, 2012, 01:49:19 PM
Well, I gave ya my 2c as an experienced game designer... do with it as you will. :)
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: TheOldMan on March 06, 2012, 02:18:51 PM
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Well, I gave ya my 2c as an experienced game designer... do with it as you will.

After 20+ years of making games for various systems, and teaching people how to do it, I've learned 2 things:

1) Don't sweat the tweaks until all the bugs are fixed. If you worry about tweaks first, you end up with a neat looking but unplayable game.
2) You can't please everyone. Don't even try. Do what you think is right.

And the mantra I program by, given to me by a college professor way back in 1987:

"Make it work -first-. Then go back and make it nice, if you have the time. No one will use a program that doesn't work, but lots of people will adapt if they like what the program does."
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: spenoza on March 07, 2012, 05:24:17 AM
OK, I'm getting slightly mixed messages from the two of you. We need to know something, here. Is this JUST a release to help find and squash bugs, or is this also an open call for suggestions and improvements? If you are not at all interested in what we think, subjectively, of the game experience, you need to tell us.

OldMan's staunch defense of the narrow scrolling margin is a little dismissive of the concerns I and at least one other have of the impact of that design decision on the gameplay experience. You two are making the game, so it is your call, clearly, but I would encourage you to at least be open-minded about our complaints, unless that's not the kind of feedback you want.

Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: nodtveidt on March 07, 2012, 05:45:15 AM
Old Rover's
You mean OldMan's. :D
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: Arkhan on March 07, 2012, 06:14:31 AM
Right now we're looking for bugs.  As in ACTUAL technical issues with the game.  Not "technical flaws" that are nothing of the sort.

There are no new characters being added (Sorry Esteban, lol), and no new glaring gameplay additions like boss battles or challenge stages.   That we plan on, at least.  

We are definitely taking note of concerns people bring up.  I am big on staying involved with the actual people who are going to be throwing money at us for this stuff.  

I agree that the maps are tedious and need fixed up.  I agree the warp speed should be faster.

I also agree that there are polish-elements that need added, and the reason I agree is because, duh, they are going to be added in when the time comes.  Why polish something you're still working on? :)  I've already got my plans for polish.  It includes new tunes, among some other things.  

One point I disagree with you all on is the scrolling region being too narrow.  In my opinion, 2 tiles (32 pixels) is plenty of reaction time for you to turn around and run away.  Between the radar and the 32 pixel window of opportunity, what more do you want?  How easy do you guys want the game to be, really?   Are you even trying the radar out?  

I watched people play it all day at the CCAG and not a single person complained about the scrolling.  I let people play it who can play Pac Man and Ms. Pac Man for hours without dying.  They did not seem to find any issue with it either. they were more preoccupied with getting acquainted with the radar and messing with powerups.  

Rover openly admitted that he played like 2 levels and shut the game off before voicing all of his criticism.  

I'm pretty sure if the scrolling is expanded to cater to the LCD, the game is going to be too easy, and boring for a different reason than tedious maps.  It'll be a snooze fest because the games too goddamn easy and you can just waltz through it on your first try without dying.

Right now, the scroll-complaint is in the minority.  Show me actual proof that it's cheap and ruins the game, and maybe it will be considered more.  Just because we disagree with one complaint doesn't mean we're not taking note of anything.  

To be blunt, 3 or 4 out of about 80 active commentors so far isn't exactly something I consider a pressing matter.  I'm sure we will experiment with expanding it a bit, but don't hold your breath on it being a top priority.

Map tedium however, is voiced by everyone I've shown the game to.  That's pressing.  It also might make the scrolling complaint less of a complaint for the complainers once we fix it.

Also, contrary to what may be implied by some, this is f*ckin' amateur hour.  We're not professional game designers (yet?).  We're not professional anything.  We're a bunch of dorks recreating games we think are fun, and doing it the best we can.  The only experience I have with game design is a Space Invaders clone, Insanity, some RPGs I made, and all of my actual gaming experience (which is pretty extensive).  I'm using my best judgement when it comes to gameplay mechanics, and then, I am gauging the general populous.

No game is flawless, anyway.  The medusa heads and neverending spawns in Castlevania don't stop people from enjoying all of the other parts of the game that make it worth buying and playing.
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: spenoza on March 07, 2012, 06:38:48 AM
Old Rover's
You mean OldMan's. :D

Yes, my mistake. I'll correct the original post.
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: TheOldMan on March 07, 2012, 06:39:26 AM
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In my opinion, 2 tiles (32 pixels) is plenty of reaction time....
I checked the actual defines. It's 3 tiles (48 pixels). It starts scrolling at the third tile from the edges.
It just seems like 2, because we display partial tiles.
That's easily tweakable, fwiw. Maybe even on a level-by-level basis.

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.....staunch defense of the narrow scrolling margin is a little dismissive of the concerns
Not dismissive of actual concerns: dismissive of the results of the choice of the margin. (ie, "bullshit challenge" and "technical flaw"). I gave reasons for why that value was chosen. I still haven't heard any reason why it should be changed, other than it makes the game harder (which was the intent).
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: spenoza on March 07, 2012, 06:51:30 AM
I gave reasons for why that value was chosen. I still haven't heard any reason why it should be changed, other than it makes the game harder (which was the intent).

Not all things that make the game harder are good ways to make the game harder. I never did reach a level where I felt I was in danger of on-screen enemies. I honestly got killed more times misjudging when power pellet would wear off (I could SWEAR what killed me was, several times, still flashing and not back to solid-color yet) than by any aggressive actions on the part of the enemies (never, by the enemies chasing me or cornering me, actually). I was never killed by off-screen enemies, I just found it inconsistent that my view was so limited when moving from one part of the screen to another, but not when I was in a stable area of the screen.

Also, Arkhan, I think you can only assume people have played the beta if they've posted about it. If they're playing it and not saying anything, they aren't part of the pool, and you can't assume that they're just silently happy. They may be equally silently disinterested.
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: Arkhan on March 07, 2012, 07:05:00 AM
Oh, so it is 3 tiles.  I thought that was what we went with like, 2 years ago.  :)  That's even better!   It does look like 2.  Maybe 2.5.  

Not all things that make the game harder are good ways to make the game harder. I never did reach a level where I felt I was in danger of on-screen enemies. I honestly got killed more times misjudging when power pellet would wear off (I could SWEAR what killed me was, several times, still flashing and not back to solid-color yet) than by any aggressive actions on the part of the enemies (never, by the enemies chasing me or cornering me, actually). I was never killed by off-screen enemies, I just found it inconsistent that my view was so limited when moving from one part of the screen to another, but not when I was in a stable area of the screen.
Some of the lack of enemy aggression is related to the current bug.  I honestly am wondering why you didn't mention the rest of this in favor of the scrolling.  If there is a timing issue with power pellet wear-offs, that is more pressing than the scrolling, isn't it? :)  lol.

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Also, Arkhan, I think you can only assume people have played the beta if they've posted about it. If they're playing it and not saying anything, they aren't part of the pool, and you can't assume that they're just silently happy. They may be equally silently disinterested.

I am not talking about the people on this forum.  I am talking about OTHER people I've shown the game to in person, which includes friends, other developers in other scenes that don't post on PCEFX, and the CCAG. I talked to as many people playing the game as possible and got their feedback.  Not a single person mentioned the scrolling except the small contained group here.
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: nodtveidt on March 07, 2012, 07:08:04 AM
Well, whatever. I won't voice my opinions anymore.
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: Arkhan on March 07, 2012, 07:17:59 AM
Well, whatever. I won't voice my opinions anymore.

well, when your opinions are calling things bullshit, referring to things as bugs that you know aren't bugs, and then waving the experienced game designer card around, what do you expect? lol

Just because we disagree with ONE thing you complain about doesn't mean you should get all pee pants that noone cares about your opinion.  It's not like the other shit you griped about wasn't taken note of.  This includes the crappy sprites you dogged on, that we're approved by your sprite artist, and are now being worked on a bit, by your sprite artist.
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: Black Tiger on March 07, 2012, 07:27:28 AM
One point I disagree with you all on is the scrolling region being too narrow.  In my opinion, 2 tiles (32 pixels) is plenty of reaction time for you to turn around and run away.  Between the radar and the 32 pixel window of opportunity, what more do you want?  How easy do you guys want the game to be, really?   Are you even trying the radar out?

I know you said that you don't plan to do any kind of challenge mode, but how about giving people the option of turning the radar off if they want to challenge themselves?



Quote
Right now, the scroll-complaint is in the minority.  Show me actual proof that it's cheap and ruins the game, and maybe it will be considered more.  Just because we disagree with one complaint doesn't mean we're not taking note of anything.

I haven't had the time to try the demo yet, but it doesn't sound like the scroll buffer will be an issue for me difficulty wise. I've played many games which felt as though the scroll point was too close to the edge of the screen and it doesn't always affect the difficulty.

But it does affect the feel of a game for me and I dislike the claustrophobia it induces. I get the same feeling from 3D games with terrible draw distances or playing 3D racers in the hood perspective. I'm sure that I'll enjoy the game either way, but I'd personally prefer the difficulty increased in other ways as scroll points are a pet peeve of mine.
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: nodtveidt on March 07, 2012, 07:31:44 AM
well, when your opinions are calling things bullshit, referring to things as bugs that you know aren't bugs, and then waving the experienced game designer card around, what do you expect? lol
I call it like I see it. And I didn't wave any card around. And if I did, it sure wouldn't be made of aluminum. :P
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: spenoza on March 07, 2012, 07:34:41 AM
Some of the lack of enemy aggression is related to the current bug.  I honestly am wondering why you didn't mention the rest of this in favor of the scrolling.  If there is a timing issue with power pellet wear-offs, that is more pressing than the scrolling, isn't it? :)  lol.

I'm not certain there is a timing issued with the power pellets, yet. I've not played quite enough. I suspect there might be, but I need more time to suss it out to see if it is just my perceptions. I don't wanna call "Gotcha!" on a bug that might not be. Bugs are different from opinions. Opinions I can speak freely. Bugs I don't want to misreport. Sounds like you're already hammering on the ghost behavior one. Don't want to have you chasing phantoms just yet with that known issue still out there.

Hey, I didn't mention the scrolling at CCAG, either, if you'll remember. I needed to sit down with it at home, spend some quality time.

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But it does affect the feel of a game for me and I dislike the claustrophobia it induces. I get the same feeling from 3D games with terrible draw distances or playing 3D racers in the hood perspective. I'm sure that I'll enjoy the game either way, but I'd personally prefer the difficulty increased in other ways as scroll points are a pet peeve of mine.

This also. Thanks, BT, for voicing something I was having trouble expressing.
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: TheOldMan on March 07, 2012, 07:53:52 AM
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how about giving people the option of turning the radar off
Good idea. And easy enough to do. I'll add it to the list - but it will have to be from the debug menu. All the buttons are in use :)

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...I dislike the claustrophobia it induces...
We're still discussing some changes to the border. But -maybe- we could add that to the debug menu too. I'll have to think about it some.

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I'm not certain there is a timing issued with the power pellets, yet.
I'm sure. I stepped frame-by-frame through that stuff. If he's colored in (and not blue/white) when your death animation plays, he changed back before you got him.
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: Necromancer on March 07, 2012, 08:01:01 AM
Are you even trying the radar out?  

Nope.  The Wii U experience doesn't really interest me.

Show me actual proof that it's cheap and ruins the game, and maybe it will be considered more.

Provide proof that it isn't cheap and improves the game experience.  Oh that's right, you can't prove 'fun'.
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: Arkhan on March 07, 2012, 11:43:20 AM
I'm not certain there is a timing issued with the power pellets, yet. I've not played quite enough. I suspect there might be, but I need more time to suss it out to see if it is just my perceptions. I don't wanna call "Gotcha!" on a bug that might not be. Bugs are different from opinions. Opinions I can speak freely. Bugs I don't want to misreport. Sounds like you're already hammering on the ghost behavior one. Don't want to have you chasing phantoms just yet with that known issue still out there.
SignOfZeta pointed out something similar at the CCAG, and it may be sorted out now, with regards to eatable-state stuff and ghosts.   I am more concerned with the ghosts operating properly than anything.   Map fixes are next. 


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Hey, I didn't mention the scrolling at CCAG, either, if you'll remember. I needed to sit down with it at home, spend some quality time.
I started explicitly asking people at one point.  I got lots of "who cares this is neat" and "this is fine" and "the radar is more important"'s.   There was even one guy that said we should make the border the screen edge.  But, I think that is a baaaaaad idea. 


Quote
But it does affect the feel of a game for me and I dislike the claustrophobia it induces. I get the same feeling from 3D games with terrible draw distances or playing 3D racers in the hood perspective. I'm sure that I'll enjoy the game either way, but I'd personally prefer the difficulty increased in other ways as scroll points are a pet peeve of mine.

This also. Thanks, BT, for voicing something I was having trouble expressing.
Yeah.  Well, it is hard to please everyone.  While I disagree and think they're fine, we're going to at least *try* some other options in an attempt to appease you guys, and any other potential sissie... i mean, gamers, who are a bit more claustrophobic.  :)

Nope.  The Wii U experience doesn't really interest me.
errr. It's not a separate controller.  It's just the top of the screen...I'm not sure how else to respond to this.


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Provide proof that it isn't cheap and improves the game experience.  Oh that's right, you can't prove 'fun'.
I already quoted some statistics and have received only a few scroll point complaints.   You've seen them all.  I want to see it being an a$$hole in action so I can have a better reason to change it than "3 or 4 people didn't like it".  I played it alot myself, and watched people play it and never really saw any cheapness. That's why I want to see it happen.

As it stands right now, there are more people who don't care or think it is a nice balance that adds a frantic thrill to running around. 

As for proving fun: the smiles, yells, and encouraging words from all the people who played the demo right in front of me are pretty good proof that this is fun and that people enjoy it.
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: Arkhan on March 07, 2012, 12:56:48 PM
new build is up.

go grab it at www.aetherbyte.com (http://www.aetherbyte.com/) ! :)

and see the new protocards while you are there. 
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: Necromancer on March 08, 2012, 03:59:53 AM
errr. It's not a separate controller.  It's just the top of the screen...I'm not sure how else to respond to this.

The obvious point was that you're trying to split the player's attention away from the main action.  I've yet to play a game where I enjoyed such an experience, but to each their own.

I already quoted some statistics and have received only a few scroll point complaints.   You've seen them all.

People saying they like it doesn't 'prove' anything, nor does it negate that others don't like it (and vice versa).  Most people think that Deep Blue sucks, so does that 'prove' that you're wrong for enjoying it?

I want to see it being an a$$hole in action so I can have a better reason to change it than "3 or 4 people didn't like it".  I played it alot myself, and watched people play it and never really saw any cheapness. That's why I want to see it happen.

You've never seen anyone go running towards the scroll side of the screen and run into an enemy?

As for proving fun: the smiles, yells, and encouraging words from all the people who played the demo right in front of me are pretty good proof that this is fun and that people enjoy it.

I can dislike part of a game and still love and enjoy the overall product (see Gotzendiener).  Can't you?

I think I'll join Rover in refraining from this circle jerk.  There's not much point in a discussion where I'm labeled as a moron or pussy for not liking one single aspect of the game play.
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: KingDrool on March 08, 2012, 04:49:27 AM
I didn't notice the scrolling after playing it for well over an hour. I rarely paid attention to the map either. You're all morons and pussies. ;)

Arkhan, IMO, you're doing a good job taking feedback and making adjustments based on that feedback. You don't need to agree with everyone's feedback either. I'll stick around in this thread and jerk you off.
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: Arkhan on March 08, 2012, 05:16:01 AM
The obvious point was that you're trying to split the player's attention away from the main action.  I've yet to play a game where I enjoyed such an experience, but to each their own.
Crap.  you probably won't like Atlantean much then.  


Quote
People saying they like it doesn't 'prove' anything, nor does it negate that others don't like it (and vice
versa).  Most people think that Deep Blue sucks, so does that 'prove' that you're wrong for enjoying it?
You said you can't prove fun. I think you can!

When the majority of people being asked are on the "do like it" side, and appear to be having fun, it leads me to believe the scrolling is probably not a huge concern and that the game is pretty good.  

There's always going to be the minority that finds some faults and will play a game, label it as "crappy design", and then dismiss it and refuse to play it.  Their loss.

Do you find fault with the scrolling too?  You haven't really said either way yet.  I am tallying up everyones thoughts.  I found one person externally who thinks it's a bit narrow too.  

Quote
You've never seen anyone go running towards the scroll side of the screen and run into an enemy?
No, I haven't, actually.  That's why the whole thing was a bit alarming to me.  Then again, everyone I watched playing it seemed to be all into the radar use and liked that aspect of the game.  It allowed them to avoid rape.

This may be a case of a different kind of crowd's reaction.  Most CCAG gamers are Apple ][/C64/Atari gamers, so maybe they're more accustomed to it.

That's why I just want to see the cheapness in action through normal play.  If I try to do it myself, I'm going to end up sort of forcing it to occur, and that isn't going to help me realize the problem.

Quote
I can dislike part of a game and still love and enjoy the overall product (see Gotzendiener).  Can't you?
Yeah, that's also why I am doing this.  I'd like to think people aren't going to throw the whole game out and bitch and trash it because of the scrolling.

It's just like what I said about Castlevania.  

Quote
I think I'll join Rover in refraining from this circle jerk.  
At least you aren't calling it a technical flaw (read: bug) when it isn't anything of the sort.  :)


Quote
There's not much point in a discussion where I'm labeled as a moron or pussy for not liking one single aspect of the game play.

Who said you're a moron?  I don't think I did.

My point is, since only like, 4 people have raised the concern, maybe those 4 or so people are being a bit wimpy and should give it a better shot.

It'd be like if people complain about all the bullets in blazing lazers or something and that they have to dodge too much.  You'd probably call them a sissy.

Some people are used to immediately being pretty good at games and walking through them.  Sorry to anyone like that who finds themselves dying with this game.  

Also, because we give a shit about all of you equally, we're coming up with ideas to tickle everyones weeners equally.   So allow me to reach into the circle jerk and touch everyone.

So, hows that for taking into account pretty much every goddamn concern you stupid, pussy, moronic queefs came up with?  :3  *hug*

hah, queef.  That's a fun word.

Ghosts need fixed first before we get to the other stuff, which now includes:

Less tedious maps
Scrolling tweaks
less retarded ghosts.
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: Black Tiger on March 08, 2012, 06:29:25 AM
Quote
When the majority of people being asked are on the "do like it" side, and appear to be having fun, it leads me to believe the scrolling is probably not a huge concern and that the game is pretty good. 

There's always going to be the minority that finds some faults and will play a game, label it as "crappy design", and then dismiss it and refuse to play it.  Their loss.

Rarely are single aspects an extreme love/hate maker for me. I'm sure that PP will still be lots of fun with the current scroll point. But it might be all the more enjoyable at another position.
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: Arkhan on March 08, 2012, 06:37:35 AM
Quote
When the majority of people being asked are on the "do like it" side, and appear to be having fun, it leads me to believe the scrolling is probably not a huge concern and that the game is pretty good. 

There's always going to be the minority that finds some faults and will play a game, label it as "crappy design", and then dismiss it and refuse to play it.  Their loss.

Rarely are single aspects an extreme love/hate maker for me. I'm sure that PP will still be lots of fun with the current scroll point. But it might be all the more enjoyable at another position.

that's why we're at least experimenting to see how it goes.
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: TheOldMan on March 08, 2012, 06:39:55 AM
Quote
Ghosts need fixed first before we get to the other stuff, which now includes:

Less tedious maps
Scrolling tweaks
less retarded ghosts.

Don't forget the faster warp (done)
and the pause screen (working on it.)
And ...what was that with the music?...
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: Arkhan on March 08, 2012, 06:57:04 AM
the rest of those were implied already.  I was noting the more prevalent stuff. :D

but:
Don't forget the faster warp (done)
We still need to make it look less "amateur", maybe. 

Quote
And ...what was that with the music?...
What about it? :)


Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: ParanoiaDragon on March 08, 2012, 07:31:19 AM
I'd say with the warp, to make it look better, maybe go to the Bomberman games.  In atleast one of them, when he finishes a level, he kind of gradually disapears line by line IIRC?  Maybe something like that, but obviously a little faster so as not to slow down gameplay.  Or maybe an ice skater twirl like in the Dungeon Explorer's! :D  Or you could just make him breakdance on his head when he warps.....that actually might be kinda cool! :-k
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: Arkhan on March 08, 2012, 08:05:50 AM
I am all for the ice skater twirl, because I love how stupid that effect looks.  (It was my planned idea for warp animation)

Anything flashy (painty/vanish stuff), wouldn't fit the cartoony theme of the game, imo.
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: spenoza on March 08, 2012, 08:17:04 AM
OK, so, I played a little of the new ISO and noticed a couple things off the bat.

I like the new scrolling margins. It just makes the game feel better somehow. I don't know if it was claustrophobia or what, but I really prefer the feel. For some reason, however, the top scrolling margin is still really narrow, like as in the original release. Kudos on being willing to play with the scroll margins to see how people feel. I really prefer them wider, but you gotta do what you gotta do.

Also, I don't know if this is intended (if this is original Pac-Man or otherwise intended behavior, let me know), but if I grab a power pellet and enemies come out of the spawn point after, they are not munch-able. That I get. Only the enemies that were already out can be nabbed. But if I grab another power pellet before the current one has worn off, they remain immune. Shouldn't getting a second power pellet reset both the timer AND enemy vulnerability?

Edit: Also, I feel like maybe the "Pause" power's timer is a bit on the long side. It buys a little too much safe time, and since it even pauses enemies in the spawn point, it exacerbates the existing problems with enemy behavior (which I understand will eventually be squashed). Have you tweaked the enemy behavior at all? I noticed, at least at first, the enemies were homing in on me and staying nearby. After playing a while they started keeping their distance again and didn't get anywhere near me, but up front at least it seemed they were raring to go, and I really found it a little more exciting, because of the potential danger AND the ease of getting them after a power pellet.
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: Arkhan on March 08, 2012, 08:28:34 AM
OK, so, I played a little of the new ISO and noticed a couple things off the bat.

I like the new scrolling margins. It just makes the game feel better somehow. I don't know if it was claustrophobia or what, but I really prefer the feel. For some reason, however, the top scrolling margin is still really narrow, like as in the original release. Kudos on being willing to play with the scroll margins to see how people feel. I really prefer them wider, but you gotta do what you gotta do.
Just because we disagree and think you're all sissies doesn't mean we won't try it anyways, :) lol.

If it ends up cheering up 4ish people, and doesn't turn the indifferent or "they're fine!" people to the  "f*ck THIS GAME" side, it's not like it's a big deal.   I'd still disagree and think they should be claustrophobic though.


Quote
Also, I don't know if this is intended (if this is original Pac-Man or otherwise intended behavior, let me know), but if I grab a power pellet and enemies come out of the spawn point after, they are not munch-able. That I get. Only the enemies that were already out can be nabbed. But if I grab another power pellet before the current one has worn off, they remain immune. Shouldn't getting a second power pellet reset both the timer AND enemy vulnerability?
That's what Zeta noted, and we haven't fixed yet.

Quote
Edit: Also, I feel like maybe the "Pause" power's timer is a bit on the long side. It buys a little too much safe time, and since it even pauses enemies in the spawn point, it exacerbates the existing problems with enemy behavior (which I understand will eventually be squashed). Have you tweaked the enemy behavior at all? I noticed, at least at first, the enemies were homing in on me and staying nearby. After playing a while they started keeping their distance again and didn't get anywhere near me, but up front at least it seemed they were raring to go, and I really found it a little more exciting, because of the potential danger AND the ease of getting them after a power pellet.
The pause timer is debug-tastic.  Expect all power-ups to be tweaked in the final release.  These are just arbitrary values to mess with them.

as for the ghost behavior, it's not going to be tweaked 100% til the bugs with the wall are fixed.  I anticipate them being more aggressive.
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: spenoza on March 08, 2012, 08:40:23 AM
I would poke around at some of the people who thought the original scrolling margins were just fine and see what their opinion of the new build is. Or, include an in game debug option to adjust the scrolling on the fly. That way people can see the different right up front and make their call. Sort of an A/B test.
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: Arkhan on March 08, 2012, 08:45:23 AM
yeah.

like eye glasses

Is it better with 1 *flips* or 2?


edit:
I am too impatient to wait and see what the rest think.

The scrolling regions are the same as they've always been.  We didn't change them.

The latest build should not be any different than the scrolling that was complained about.  

They will be changed, but now I am curious if they really are as bad, cheap, and bullshit as claimed.  

Experiments.
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: ParanoiaDragon on March 08, 2012, 01:11:38 PM
I am all for the ice skater twirl, because I love how stupid that effect looks.  (It was my planned idea for warp animation)

Anything flashy (painty/vanish stuff), wouldn't fit the cartoony theme of the game, imo.


I'm talking about this(2:50), seems like this would work in PP, but then again, maybe not if it's used constantly in a level, as opposed to just the end of a level like in Bomberman
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: Arkhan on March 08, 2012, 01:51:30 PM
Yeah that is kind of what I'd already had in mind.  It's a great cartoon style warp.
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: Bonknuts on March 09, 2012, 02:55:58 AM
I only played a little bit of the game, but I kind of liked the edge scrolling. I liked the claustrophobic feel it added (for this type of game, anyway). But I felt the enemies needed to be more threatening or such. Maybe more of them or aggro area where they pick up speed if you get within that radius. I dunno, I suck at making these kind of games and AI (I tried as a kid on my old Coco 2). Anyway, yeah - the edge scrolling part was good but nothing was threatening in the end result. I didn't play that far in, so maybe it changes?
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: Arkhan on March 09, 2012, 03:28:22 AM
The reason the AI is retarded right now is related to the wall-bug.

Once they stop becoming one with the wall, they'll be more dastardly.

Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: spenoza on March 09, 2012, 04:55:55 AM
I think any meaningful testing of the level of challenge the game presents, be it related to scrolling or otherwise, it contingent on getting that AI code fixed. Not much we can do for you until then.
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: Arkhan on March 09, 2012, 04:58:10 AM
I think any meaningful testing of the level of challenge the game presents, be it related to scrolling or otherwise, it contingent on getting that AI code fixed. Not much we can do for you until then.

which is why at least one person here (vecanti) is helping get that squashed. :)
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: Arkhan on March 09, 2012, 01:28:54 PM
New version up.

debug screen is accessed by holding select while pressing run, for those who didn't know.

This will allow you to tweak the border to your hearts content.

I play with the Radar off, and Scrolling at 0. 

Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: Vecanti on March 09, 2012, 04:11:36 PM

I play with the Radar off, and Scrolling at 0. 


 :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: Arkhan on March 10, 2012, 08:06:56 AM
has anyone else given the new scrolling a shot.
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: ParanoiaDragon on March 10, 2012, 07:19:29 PM
Sorry, lack of time!  After fiddlin' with the numbers, I'm thinking that 3 ain't so bad.  I suppose it could be 4, but......not 7!
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: spenoza on March 11, 2012, 05:18:39 AM
Yeah, my work week started yesterday so I won't have much free time until Tuesday to look at it.
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: Arkhan on March 11, 2012, 07:42:09 AM
Sorry, lack of time!  After fiddlin' with the numbers, I'm thinking that 3 ain't so bad.  I suppose it could be 4, but......not 7!

3 is the default that sparked complaints.

lol
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: ParanoiaDragon on March 11, 2012, 06:14:08 PM
Yeah I know, & I'm getting used to it, but like I said, 4 might not be so bad.  I'm thinking Exile 2 is a bit more scary in that department, since Sadler doesn't have a "run the hell away" button! :D
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: Vecanti on March 11, 2012, 07:20:20 PM
Here's one of the advantages of 3 vs 6.

When I'm playing I like to try to clear parts in sections.  So I just grabbed this as an example.

Basically just a starting point:
(http://i42.tinypic.com/nwaudt.jpg)


With 3 you can go through and clear a section and and not have it scroll away from the right edge at all.  You notice you can still see the wall on the right side as you clear the first set of rows.  So nothing can sneak up on you.  Basically you can clear out this section and not have to look at the radar as you can see anything come on to the screen.
(http://i39.tinypic.com/v79qv8.jpg)


This next pic is set with scrolling on 6.  You notice when you just want to clear this first section of lines on the bottom right that the screen moves over and you can no longer see the far right, so a mummy can sneak down the right side and you can't see.  So you might get mummies sneaking up on you on the right side and have to watch the rader more not less.
(http://i44.tinypic.com/11b5a1v.jpg)


I've found I like 3 because I tend to like to try clear teh levels in sections.  This varies for different levels of course.  Not matter what it is 3,4,5,6,7 it's all going to be a trade off to find the right strategy for each level. 

But I tend to like the fact that the levels are large though too.  They vary from ones you can clear in sections to ones you have to go in circles or ones that just make you come up with unique strategies.  So it keeps it interesting. 
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: touko on March 11, 2012, 09:33:32 PM
For that i tested, the only unpleasant thing i noticed, is maze is too large in the first level .
Why not expanding mazes throughout the game, when the difficulty increases ????
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: Keranu on March 11, 2012, 09:59:49 PM
For that i tested, the only unpleasant thing i noticed, is maze is too large in the first level .
Why not expanding mazes throughout the game, when the difficulty increases ????
This is what I had in mind as well. Keep the first two screens small enough for the player to remain interested in playing further, and expand the maps as the ghosts get faster.
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: touko on March 11, 2012, 10:09:06 PM
Yes, and why ghosts would not her bonus items, like a 2x the number of ghosts on screen,for exemple..
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: Keranu on March 11, 2012, 11:13:45 PM
That's good thinking, I like that idea a lot! Reminds me of some other games I can't think of at the moment... some items help you, others are a curse!
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: touko on March 12, 2012, 12:22:32 AM
It's just an idea, i'am not the guru of PP  :P, but i think it could be fun .
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: Arkhan on March 12, 2012, 02:55:18 AM
When I redo the levels, I plan to have them grow with each level.  :) 
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: Vecanti on March 12, 2012, 07:14:08 PM
Would be cool to do 1 level to represent each of the 3 Indiana Jones movies.  For the 2nd movie you could do the bridge scene.

Have two separate sections (right and left) and the only way to get across to them is a single long rope bridge you have run across and hope no enemies come onto.  Have water and crocs under it. :)

Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: abeaver on March 15, 2012, 04:54:22 PM
I had some time to play your game and I have a few suggestions:

- Perhaps to avoid abuse of the run button a cool-down timer could be implemented? That or maybe have a stamina meter that depletes during use and is refilled with time or by collecting gold. I wouldn't call it absolutely game-breaking to not implement some sort of check and I'm sure you have better problems to worry about, but I figured if I had an idea I might as well share it.
- Perhaps traps like pop-out spikes, arrows, or the occasional rolling boulder would make maps more interesting and challenging. Again, these kind of features are probably an afterthought, but whatever.
- When I went through a teleporter, my character's palette changed and would not go back to normal even after I killed myself. To be honest I'm not sure if this was in fact a bug or if I had accidentally triggered something with the debug mode. Has anyone else encountered this?

Other than that, what I played was pretty good.
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: ParanoiaDragon on March 16, 2012, 12:13:13 AM
Fear not, the teleporter pallete change is not a bug, it's a feature!  Congrats on unlocking this feature, as it ends up adding a tremendous amount of replay value! :D

Seriously though, yeah, I've had the same thing happen as well.  Also, I like your ideas on spikes, boulders, etc.  And I think I like your idea about a stamina bar as well, as long as it doesn't fill up too quickly.
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: Arkhan on March 16, 2012, 03:31:15 AM
oops. lol.

minor detail.
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: KingDrool on March 16, 2012, 05:40:59 AM
- Perhaps traps like pop-out spikes, arrows, or the occasional rolling boulder would make maps more interesting and challenging. Again, these kind of features are probably an afterthought, but whatever.

I love this idea. Having to avoid rolling boulders a la Indiana Jones would be awesome.
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: Arkhan on March 18, 2012, 12:54:52 PM
It might be a bit late in the game to go adding that kinda stuff to the game though... lol
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: sunteam_paul on March 29, 2012, 05:52:32 AM
Are you still looking for a character name?

How about Alabama Bumgardner.
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: Arkhan on March 29, 2012, 06:56:52 AM
lol.

That makes him sound like hes into anal.
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: spenoza on March 29, 2012, 07:03:16 AM
Make him from New Orleans. Call him Cajun Jack. Mix up a lil N'awlins jazz in your soundtrack ; )
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: Arkhan on March 29, 2012, 07:06:58 AM
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: nat on March 29, 2012, 02:05:00 PM
lol.

That makes him sound like hes into anal.

If that's the way we're going with this, why not consider Rectal Rambo or Asp Lunder?
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: Arkhan on March 29, 2012, 05:05:43 PM
Cole Unpounder
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: Vecanti on March 30, 2012, 04:42:20 AM
Might as well name him...


Homer


...Homer Sexual
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: Arkhan on March 30, 2012, 04:51:37 AM
LOL.

Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: sunteam_paul on March 30, 2012, 05:51:59 AM
Holden McGroin
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: TheOldMan on March 30, 2012, 05:55:43 AM
Quote
Might as well name him...

Richard Headd
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: sunteam_paul on March 30, 2012, 06:13:47 AM
Randy Beaver
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: Arkhan on March 30, 2012, 06:21:35 AM
We could make it a girl, and name her

Anne L. Pfister
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: ParanoiaDragon on March 30, 2012, 10:15:27 AM
Naw, name her Amanda Hugginkiss!

*I'm looking for a Amanda Hugginkiss!  Why can't I find Amanda Hugginkiss?*

*Maybe you're standards are too high!* :D
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: spenoza on March 30, 2012, 11:45:14 AM
Naw, name her Amanda Hugginkiss!

*I'm looking for a Amanda Hugginkiss!  Why can't I find Amanda Hugginkiss?*

*Maybe you're your standards are too high!* :D

Fixed that for you.

You're welcome  ; )
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: ParanoiaDragon on March 30, 2012, 08:42:18 PM
Doh!  I know I'm bad with grammar, & all, but the you're thing I should've caught :P
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: sunteam_paul on March 30, 2012, 09:49:32 PM
Or just take your pick from any of these: http://thechive.com/2010/06/25/parents-can-be-cruel-to-their-kids-and-hilarious-20-photos/
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: esteban on March 31, 2012, 11:51:43 AM
I think the main character should simply be named "Reginald"
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: spenoza on March 31, 2012, 11:59:52 AM
You could name him Reginald Cuthbert (or Cuftbert), but you might have Shamus Young and crew come knocking if you do.
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: Keranu on March 31, 2012, 12:05:25 PM
Dick Rambone
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: Arkhan on March 31, 2012, 02:24:30 PM
Dick Rambone

Richard Pounder
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: Arkhan on March 31, 2012, 02:24:48 PM
or, Richard Gozinya
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: henrycsc on April 02, 2012, 11:55:41 AM
Hey Guys,

Great Game!   :clap:

Since you asked, here are my comments about the scroll border.

I like the default setting of 3.  It does give you a little cushion when the bad guys are in your path, but not so much to make the game too easy (I think 7 certainly does that).

Having a scroll border of 0 is problematic for me though.  The biggest problem is more not knowing the mazes.  When you are at the end of any path, you stop at the crossing block but with no scroll border, you don't know if you're at the edge of the map or just against a wall.  You will literally need to hunt your way around each maze.  For me this would make a very enjoyable game frustratingly hard.  (This would be a nice option to have in the settings so that people who know the maps can go borderless.)

This is illustrated by these images from level 1-1

Is this the bottom?
(http://img834.imageshack.us/img834/7540/pp1v.html)

Is this the right?
(http://img850.imageshack.us/img850/7981/pp2t.html)

Or is this the bottom?
(http://img853.imageshack.us/img853/4003/pp3j.html)
No real indication of where the wall breaks are until you pass that side.  So literally, you need to check every possible turn until you find an opening (for each wall).  Or am I missing something?  This would be hard on 1-1 but nearly impossible on some of the higher levels with lots of dead ends.

One visual clue I get with the zero scroll border is the loss of the bottom half of the bottom row... here
(http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/2121/pp4be.html)

It's even worse depending on the settings of your monitor (and mine is probably not the best...)
(http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/3572/pp5ap.html)

I do have a couple gameplay suggestions if you do want to add a "Devil Mode" to the game.  :twisted: 
If you want them, who should I send the suggestions to?

It is super fun guys.  It's obvious you have a lot of heart poured into this one.

Oh, another thing that I would ask is for a soft reboot.  In the beta, if I reboot (run + select), it takes me back to the system startup screen (using a LaserActive).  I'd love to have it take me back to the start menu.  Save the system start for a hard reboot.  :)  It's a bug and I can replicate it 100% of the time.   :lol:
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: Arkhan on April 02, 2012, 12:40:05 PM
lol, you can shoot the suggestions up right here if you want, or just post them on Aetherbyte.com or something. 

Scroll Mode 0 is not going to be in a the real game.  it's basically just there for shits and giggles
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: TheOldMan on April 02, 2012, 12:52:56 PM
Quote
I like the default setting of 3...
not so much to make the game too easy (I think 7 certainly does that)....
Having a scroll border of 0 is problematic for me though.
Glad to see I'm not the only one that thinks 3 was a reasonable compromise.
I'll probably leave it at that for the real game, and leave the option in the debug menu to change it.
Yeah, 0 would be a pain. Especially without the radar :)

Quote
if I reboot (run + select), it takes me back to the system startup screen
Yeah, that's how the joystick polling works: run+select does a complete reboot. (actually, it jumps to the reboot interrupt)
That's part of Huc and the CD-Bios. I suppose with a lot of work I could change that, but it may be too much trouble... (irq routines are a pain to get right). Lemme think about it, and see if HuC is actually using the cd-bios joystick routine or the software routine. I might be able to hack the software one....

Quote
If you want them, who should I send the suggestions to?
All suggestions go to Arkhan. Then he asks if they are do-able. Not sure there is gonna be much added, though. We're already pushing the space limits on the cd card :(
(Which is why I haven't added a 6th ghost....yet)
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: Bonknuts on April 02, 2012, 12:57:13 PM
Quote
Yeah, that's how the joystick polling works: run+select does a complete reboot. (actually, it jumps to the reboot interrupt)
That's part of Huc and the CD-Bios. I suppose with a lot of work I could change that, but it may be too much trouble... (irq routines are a pain to get right). Lemme think about it, and see if HuC is actually using the cd-bios joystick routine or the software routine. I might be able to hack the software one....

 There's a vector for it (among the other interrupt vectors). Huc7CD or whatever manual should show it. There's also a bios call to change the selected vector too (if you don't want to do it manually).
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: Arkhan on April 02, 2012, 02:18:05 PM
LOL, remember when I tried f*cking with soft resets awhile ago before insanity was done?

I thought i had it, and all it did was the same reset as before, lol.

I recall seeing it all in the docs.

but hey, it's not like commercial games have reset features...

I'd rather disable the reset altogether so you don't accidentally reset your friggin game.
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: Keranu on April 02, 2012, 03:06:46 PM
LOL, remember when I tried f*cking with soft resets awhile ago before insanity was done?

I thought i had it, and all it did was the same reset as before, lol.
I think there was at least one CD game that was capable of doing a soft reset. Probably a post about it on here somewhere.

Quote from: Ark
I'd rather disable the reset altogether so you don't accidentally reset your friggin game.
Not a bad idea, I've accidentally reseted games during crucial moments!
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: Arkhan on April 02, 2012, 03:15:26 PM
I once reset shadow of the beast on accident during the jetpack stage and got so pissed I drop kicked a C64 into a wall.
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: TheOldMan on April 02, 2012, 03:58:27 PM
Quote
I think there was at least one CD game that was capable of doing a soft reset.
Replacing the reset irq address would work. The problem is what other effects would that have? First, I'd have to squeeze it in somewhere where it would always be available (ie, the boot page, maybe). Then, I'd have to figure out a way to flag that it was a soft reset (as opposed to system on) so I could clear some extra memory.

I'm not ruling it out, but it's not as easy as you might think....especially with the cd interrupts involved...
Like I said, I'll look into it.
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: Bonknuts on April 02, 2012, 06:40:36 PM
Could your new hook (pointed by vector replacement) just change a variable and that's it? Handle everything else on huc's side? Having a custom soft reset routine would be fancy though :D

 The only game that I know that does it is Spriggan Mark 2. It asks you to verify that you want to reset.
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: ParanoiaDragon on April 02, 2012, 10:48:53 PM
I once reset shadow of the beast on accident during the jetpack stage and got so pissed I drop kicked a C64 into a wall.

Now that...I would like to see, Arkhan dropkicking a C64!  Kodak moment!
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: esteban on April 03, 2012, 12:38:56 AM
I once reset shadow of the beast on accident during the jetpack stage and got so pissed I drop kicked a C64 into a wall.

Now that...I would like to see, Arkhan dropkicking a C64!  Kodak moment!


I don't care what hardware is being abused, but the violence must stop now!

Arkhan, the machines are turning against you...

(http://junk.tg-16.com/images/C64_sucks.html)
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: Arkhan on April 03, 2012, 01:39:14 AM
I DO NOT.

OK MAYBE JUST A LITTLE.
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: TheOldMan on April 03, 2012, 03:56:28 AM
Quote
Could your new hook (pointed by vector replacement) just change a variable and that's it?
As far as clearing memory? Sure. HuC might even do that for me when it realizes it has loaded overlay 0.

But at the very least, I have to call cd_exec_overlay() to load the title screen and/or level 1 (whichever).
And I don't want Tuoko's problem of having 2 different sets of startup code; screwing with the Huc Cd boot code
is a sure problem, especially if -any- routines move. (It's going to throw off the return from the RAM execution portion of cd_exec_overlay(). )
Then there's the problem of -which- reset routine gets called. Is it the HuC one, or the Bios one? Bios is mapped in at bank 8 on a cd, right? So the irq vector -might- be going through bios into the HuC code. Or maybe not...
Like I said, I need to look into it.
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: Arkhan on April 03, 2012, 04:12:14 AM
hopefully this time, it goes better than when I tried to do it back when Insanity demos were released that were supposed to reset after 10 mins... lol
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: TheOldMan on April 04, 2012, 06:26:31 AM
Quote
Quote
Could your new hook (pointed by vector replacement) just change a variable and that's it?
Like I said, I need to look into it.
...Or, I could just shut the reset function off in the polling routine (via joyena).
Then I can trap it myself in the main loop. :)

Yeah, the reset function is gonna get changed, henrycsc.
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: Arkhan on May 08, 2012, 04:10:21 AM
Update:   My thesis defense is sometime this week.

I already started fixing the maps to remove tedium.

Some of them are still large, but are not as obnoxious, meaning, I've removed some of the senseless "have to use as much tiles for bars as possible!" setup, and have created more corridor-like-portions instead.

Once they're all done (I am current on like may 24/30), and I've given them a once over, you can expect a new and improved beta to see if it makes you all hate your lives less while playing!


:)
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: roflmao on May 08, 2012, 05:23:36 AM
Sweet!  Thanks for the update.
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: Arkhan on May 11, 2012, 02:25:59 AM
To everyone who played the PP beta and got to the spider levels:

I am sorry.

What the f*ck was I thinking with the 5th board.  Holy. f*ck.

lol
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: henrycsc on July 16, 2012, 02:44:00 PM
I see this was posted on the Aetherbyte website yesterday "Pyramid Plunder is concluding as planned."

Details?  :)
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: Arkhan on July 16, 2012, 05:31:24 PM
I see this was posted on the Aetherbyte website yesterday "Pyramid Plunder is concluding as planned."

Details?  :)

Concluding as planned, meaning "being finished up, like we said", lol.

We're in the final stretches of the game. 
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: Keranu on July 17, 2012, 12:09:36 PM
Congrats! We still have half a year left to make 2012 the year for Turbobrew!
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: henrycsc on July 18, 2012, 03:27:48 PM
Finished up is more awesomer news!

Keep em coming KC!
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: Arkhan on July 27, 2012, 11:31:47 AM
http://www.aetherbyte.com/downloadables/pppb.iso


Latest public beta

GO GET SOME.
Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: esteban on July 27, 2012, 02:39:28 PM
I'm still playing this build:

(http://junk.tg-16.com/images/pyramid_plunder.html)

I'll get the new beta when I'm done with this one. (http://junk.tg-16.com/images/pcgs.html)

Title: Re: Pyramid Plunder Public Beta
Post by: henrycsc on July 27, 2012, 03:56:38 PM
Downroaded!

Trialz beginz!