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NEC TG-16/TE/TurboDuo => TG-16/TE/TurboDuo Discussion => Topic started by: galam on June 04, 2012, 02:00:05 PM
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I was recently outbid on Last Alert and I'm bitter. I bid $18, and it ended at $19.50.
Dick.
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thats the name of the game. i lose all the time, dont have time or patience for that little game so i "buy it now" usually.
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Was outbid on the GOT 3in1 twice in the last month. Also lost an auction of Ys Book 1 & 2.
Non-turbo related, I have been outbid several times on the NES version of Dragon Warrior 2
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Seriously? Get over it man. :) Thats the name of the game.. Its an auction... lol. Happens to us all, and I am sure I have outbid others at the last minute. Just the way it is. :)
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I also lost the Addams Family for NES. I bid 18, it ended at 35. Trust me, that one I got over quickly
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A lot!! EBAY it's the most easy way (to me) to get some games.
But as 420GOAT ,-BuyItNow- option (when they are cheaper) it's the way I do.
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I lost a bid on a RGB and region free Core Grafx recently, it went for £81 and i think we were tied, but the other guy put the bid in first so he got it.
I also lost a bid for a new in box satellaview system less than a week ago, but my top bid was nowhere near what it went for, so im not too bitter about that loss.
What gets to me is when i "lose" a bid simply because im not allowed to. Many times im sure id be one of the top bidders, if not the winner, if i was only allowed to bid or buy the item.
You win some and you lose some, but generally i tend to win. Maybe im overpaying or im just good at being a consistant auction sniper.
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I lose auctions quite often, which is hardly surprising considering the number of gotta-have-it-now-price-be-damned collectors and price fixing resellers.
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I get outbid all the time, but I generally put in low snipes. Most games aren't too rare, so it's just nice when it works out.
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yeah if you dont loose auctions then you are spending too much
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I bid $18, and it ended at $19.50.
If it makes you feel any better, that doesn't mean that the highest bid was $19.50 - for all you know it could have been a lot higher. That's the way eBay works, the final bid is only ever a few dollars higher than the second closest bid.
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yeah if you dont loose auctions then you are spending too much
Those are sage words to live by!
I've lost a couple Mega CD games and PSP titles recently, but I'm trying to trim down my eBay spending and buy stuff from forums if possible.
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I bid $18, and it ended at $19.50.
If it makes you feel any better, that doesn't mean that the highest bid was $19.50 - for all you know it could have been a lot higher. That's the way eBay works, the final bid is only ever a few dollars higher than the second closest bid.
Believe me, I've been trying to explain this extremely simple concept to average people for years. Its just not possible.
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Ebay auctions are fun. Between Amazon and Ebay, that's where I generally buy the more expensive games.
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I bid $18, and it ended at $19.50.
If it makes you feel any better, that doesn't mean that the highest bid was $19.50 - for all you know it could have been a lot higher. That's the way eBay works, the final bid is only ever a few dollars higher than the second closest bid.
Believe me, I've been trying to explain this extremely simple concept to average people for years. Its just not possible.
I know what you mean. I have known many people who bid dollar for dollar
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I bid $18, and it ended at $19.50.
If it makes you feel any better, that doesn't mean that the highest bid was $19.50 - for all you know it could have been a lot higher. That's the way eBay works, the final bid is only ever a few dollars higher than the second closest bid.
Believe me, I've been trying to explain this extremely simple concept to average people for years. Its just not possible.
Oh trust me I get it. 18 was as high as I was going. With shipping it was 22. If it was boxed, I would have gone a bit higher.
I also can't believe I can't find It Came From the Desert for under 30, no box. Ugh
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I also can't believe I can't find It Came From the Desert for under 30, no box. Ugh
It's doable: http://www.ebay.com/itm/180890733152?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649#ht_500wt_1104
One of the keys to ebay deals is checking ebay very often. Cheap buy it nows are gone in a flash. It does have the drawback of making you pretty obsessed though :)
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Lost this one by 501 yennies
http://page13.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/r90618219
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Lost this one by 501 yennies
http://page13.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/r90618219
And, ehm, what is it?
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A motherload of x68000 computer MIDI equipment and software. Ive got enough for myseld just wanted some of the stuff for friends.
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Why isn't this topic in General Discussion?
I have no problem being outbid. What I hate are the private offers and "this-item-is-no-longer-available" bullshit that's running rampant. (I was going to bid on this (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&_trksid=p4340.l2557&item=190684801766&nma=true&rt=nc&si=sLS8%252FLV%252BLxgnmqE2kR8%252Fsf1sXsQ%253D&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWAX%3AIT&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc) - nope.) It's a symptom of increasingly desperate, impatient buyers as well as cowardly sellers who don't know what their shit is worth or have any faith in the auction system and its legion of snipers.
Furthermore, whenever masses of idiots violate policy to cheat ebay out of their fees, ebay retaliates with some stupid new policy that makes it worse for everyone. Case in point: extremely low limits on flat-rate shipping that f*ck casual sellers that haven't invested in a scale (particularly Canadians or anyone with an item that weighs more than ebay thinks it should weigh) or shipping costs now being included in closing fees. These private offers/early closures will either result in higher up-front listing fees, higher paypal fees, more limitations on buyer/seller communication, more censorship, hurdles to legitimate early closures, or all of the above.
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A motherload of x68000 computer MIDI equipment and software. Ive got enough for myseld just wanted some of the stuff for friends.
Im not familiar with that system, but thanks for telling.
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Why isn't this topic in General Discussion?
Because to noobs TG-16 and eBay are so intrinsically linked they might as well have put eBay's logo right between "HUCard" and "HE System".
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Why isn't this topic in General Discussion?
Because to noobs TG-16 and eBay are so intrinsically linked they might as well have put eBay's logo right between "HUCard" and "HE System".
And believe it or not, there are a lot of people that consider ebay and "auctions" synonymous.
I lost a bid at a live auction on a box lot of cd's that had some ps1 and turbo games in it. But nothing worth breaking the bank over.
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When people say they lost out by $1.50 they are talking about eBay. That sort of thinking didn't exists before eBay. At a live auction only you know what your max is and you never know what the other guy's max is until he stops bidding. There is no auto increment via computer, no concept of "sniping", none of that. If you get beat you never know how high the other guy would have gone.
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When people say they lost out by $1.50 they are talking about eBay. That sort of thinking didn't exists before eBay. At a live auction only you know what your max is and you never know what the other guy's max is until he stops bidding. There is no auto increment via computer, no concept of "sniping", none of that. If you get beat you never know how high the other guy would have gone.
I was at a live silent auction back in '97 or so where each of the items had a notebook that you would physically write in your bid. The auction ended at a specific time. I went to this auction with a friend who wanted a book that was there. Whenever someone wrote down a bid, she would go in and write down one dollar more. By the end of the auction it was her and one other person writing furiously at that notebook. It was crazy. EVERYONE was watching the two of them go at it. When it got down to about 10 seconds, my friend made the final bid and took a loooooong time to write it in so there was no chance the other person could counter. She won and the other person made a loud gasp of exasperation as if to plea to the auctioneers. But my friend won in the end without issue. I tell you, it was the most intense auction I've ever watched. I've watched ebay auctions with my heart thumping, hoping no one outbid me, but that one took the cake. :)
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Why isn't this topic in General Discussion?
I have no problem being outbid. What I hate are the private offers and "this-item-is-no-longer-available" bullshit that's running rampant. (I was going to bid on this (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&_trksid=p4340.l2557&item=190684801766&nma=true&rt=nc&si=sLS8%252FLV%252BLxgnmqE2kR8%252Fsf1sXsQ%253D&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWAX%3AIT&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc) - nope.) It's a symptom of increasingly desperate, impatient buyers as well as cowardly sellers who don't know what their shit is worth or have any faith in the auction system and its legion of snipers.
Vestcoat, I'm pretty sure you can get around that by placing the minimum bid can't you? I think once there's a live bid, the seller can't retract the auction, but I'm not certain. On my part, I generally resign myself that I might sell something for the 99p minimum. It happens. However, on my buying part, I'm quite happy to offer someone what I want to pay for an item. I got a boxed City Hunter for £15 by asking someone to split it from a lot. Never thought that would happen.
And Roflmao, that's a neat story :) My Dad used to love things like that. I remember he got a computer desk for a £ because no-one else realised it was part of the auction :D
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I never get out bid, But then again I don't really do ebay lol. I do it the ol fashion way yard sales, Estat sales and trades. I'm in no rush to own games I want. I've gotten a lot of the games I need from these forums.
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Vestcoat, I'm pretty sure you can get around that by placing the minimum bid can't you? I think once there's a live bid, the seller can't retract the auction, but I'm not certain.
Nah, those scumbags retract their items all the time. That 32x lot I linked had bids on it.
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I've lost alot of auctions, and I have won a few. The thing you have to do is never get into a bidding war. Always have a max amount in mind that you are willing to pay and go no further. If possible bid in the last minute to minimize a bidding war. Its that simple. If you take emotions out of the auction process (whether is a live auction or ebay), you will not be so sore if you do lose out.
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That is what I do also wait until the last minute and then bid and I bid the max amunt I want to spend on the item.
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Oh no I was watching an Ebay sale for Splatterhouse and it ended with no bids shipping was 3.00 and startin bid was .99 it included the box manual, sleeve and the game. I can not believe it for got about it
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Its interesting how yahoo auctions japan does it.... it seems like if someone bids in the last 5 minutes, they add another 10 minutes to the auction. Eliminates snipers :)
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I keep losing FDS lots. They are always random lots of games and what interests me is that they could be dead disks or rewritten and are usually not even official nintendo disks but people bid them up. I guess i'm not the only one interested to find out what's on them.
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Its interesting how yahoo auctions japan does it.... it seems like if someone bids in the last 5 minutes, they add another 10 minutes to the auction. Eliminates snipers :)
I think that's a great way to deal with snipers. I wish ebay had the option of listing items that way. As it is, if you want to win an auction, sniping is pretty much a necessity.
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I love sniping, that is the best way to win, that way their is no bidding war and end up paying too much.
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Its interesting how yahoo auctions japan does it.... it seems like if someone bids in the last 5 minutes, they add another 10 minutes to the auction. Eliminates snipers :)
I think that's a great way to deal with snipers. I wish ebay had the option of listing items that way. As it is, if you want to win an auction, sniping is pretty much a necessity.
If an auction has an end time, it has an end time. Prolonging just because some people want to continue bidding is more unfair than being outsniped. Sniping has little to do with unfair play, and more to do with sticking with your initial maximum bid, keeping from paying too much just because you get excited, and keeps prices from being driven up unecessarily. Its good for everyone. I sincerely hope ebay will not introduce something like what yahoo auctions in japan has.
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Its interesting how yahoo auctions japan does it.... it seems like if someone bids in the last 5 minutes, they add another 10 minutes to the auction. Eliminates snipers :)
I think that's a great way to deal with snipers. I wish ebay had the option of listing items that way. As it is, if you want to win an auction, sniping is pretty much a necessity.
If an auction has an end time, it has an end time. Prolonging just because some people want to continue bidding is more unfair than being outsniped. Sniping has little to do with unfair play, and more to do with sticking with your initial maximum bid, keeping from paying too much just because you get excited, and keeps prices from being driven up unecessarily. Its good for everyone. I sincerely hope ebay will not introduce something like what yahoo auctions in japan has.
Well if they did introduce it, at least make it optional. From a sellers point of view it would be a benefit. Buyers, maybe not so much.
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If an auction has an end time, it has an end time. Prolonging just because some people want to continue bidding is more unfair than being outsniped.
To be fair, what yahoo is doing is basically the way real auctions have always worked.
Sniping is nice for the buyer who actually wins: when an item has a vague market value, forced end-times and sniping can prevent the value from being driven up by too many bids. People snipe because it works and it can get you things for less. For the seller, though, and for the bidder who would have paid more if only given the chance, it can feel a bit like a cheat.
Part of a seller's incentive for putting an item up at a very low starting price and giving buyers a shot at a good deal is that those same buyers might bid it way up. Forced end times damage some of that potential. That's why I bet that if ebay did implement postponed end-times, you would probably see lower starting prices all around.
You'd think that ebay would realize that extending auction times would mean higher end prices and bigger cuts for them. Oh well.
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But the way real auctions work is not possible on the internet. You need to have it end one time or another. A real auction house does not have millions of potential bidders attending the auction. Ebay and other auction sites do.
If you feel cheated, then raise your maximum bid to actually become your maximum bid. anything else is just desperation bidding. If a seller feels cheated well tough luck, put a reserve price and guard yourself from "too low" a price. If you dont want to sell your Rolls Royce for .99 cents, dont start it at .99, and out a reserve price. Problem for the seller solved.
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But the way real auctions work is not possible on the internet. You need to have it end one time or another. A real auction house does not have millions of potential bidders attending the auction. Ebay and other auction sites do.
If you feel cheated, then raise your maximum bid to actually become your maximum bid. anything else is just desperation bidding. If a seller feels cheated well tough luck, put a reserve price and guard yourself from "too low" a price. If you dont want to sell your Rolls Royce for .99 cents, dont start it at .99, and out a reserve price. Problem for the seller solved.
Or....stop crying and get over it. :mrgreen:
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If an auction has an end time, it has an end time. Prolonging just because some people want to continue bidding is more unfair than being outsniped. Sniping has little to do with unfair play, and more to do with sticking with your initial maximum bid, keeping from paying too much just because you get excited, and keeps prices from being driven up unecessarily. Its good for everyone. I sincerely hope ebay will not introduce something like what yahoo auctions in japan has.
AMEN!
Sniping is nice for the buyer who actually wins: when an item has a vague market value, forced end-times and sniping can prevent the value from being driven up by too many bids. People snipe because it works and it can get you things for less. For the seller, though, and for the bidder who would have paid more if only given the chance, it can feel a bit like a cheat.
Part of a seller's incentive for putting an item up at a very low starting price and giving buyers a shot at a good deal is that those same buyers might bid it way up. Forced end times damage some of that potential. That's why I bet that if ebay did implement postponed end-times, you would probably see lower starting prices all around.
It's a moot point because no one auctions anything anyway. Sellers already have all of the chips on their side of the table - it's called Buy It Now. Current U.S. Ebay auctions for "Turbo Grafx" in the video games category = 185. BIN listings = 1,307. No forced end times! "Vague market value"? Who cares - shoot for the moon and gouge the heck out of everything! Let those games automatically re-list for years! Or use the recommended pricing Ebay provides to sellers when listings are created (which, btw, happens to have a longer date range than the the completed listing search commonly used by buyers).
Even when video games are auctioned, winning bids below the "market value" are not a common occurrence. First, the thrifty buyer has to wait two months until a seller has the guts to list one of our coveted games in an actual auction with a non-gouging starting point; even then, bidding typically goes to astronomical levels. Thus our patient gamer has to wait even longer, perhaps six to eighteen months, for the stars to align and a rare Turbo game with a low starting price to be listed in an auction that is somewhat poorly described or photographed, creating a lack of early bidding that lulls the noobs into a false sense of security and enables one to snipe the shit out of them before they have a chance to check their credit card balance and revise bids.
Seriously, that's what it takes to get a good deal on ebay these days. It's been a sellers' market ever since BIN's begun to outnumber auctions in the mid-2000's. Buyers are screwed and sniping is one of the last tools left to the honest gamer. Everyone has the chance to bid whatever a game is worth to them and no one can take that away. The only thing sniping does is take away the chance for noobs and speculators to reconsider their baseless appraisals.
Finally, f*ck "market value."
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The only thing sniping does is take away the chance for noobs and speculators to reconsider their baseless appraisals.
Finally, f*ck "market value."
Agreed. As an occasional seller, I'd love the option to list an auction that automatically extends time to prevent sniping, but as a buyer I wouldn't put much faith in winning that type because a noob without any prior knowledge of the worth of this stuff would easily and happily outbid me in a heartbeat.
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Sniping still works to a point in an extend-an-auction setup. You may slip a winning bid in on something and the other bidder might not notice theyve been outbid. Ive had this happen on a few yahoo jp auctions.
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Sniping still works to a point in an extend-an-auction setup. You may slip a winning bid in on something and the other bidder might not notice theyve been outbid. Ive had this happen on a few yahoo jp auctions.
Makes sense. I rarely stick around to watch an auction end. I usually set my high bid via a sniping app and forget about it (because I typically don't win). If an auction were to auto-extend, and if you were intent in winning, you'd have to be there to outbid snipers. Interesting.
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Sniping still works to a point in an extend-an-auction setup. You may slip a winning bid in on something and the other bidder might not notice theyve been outbid. Ive had this happen on a few yahoo jp auctions.
The problem with that reasoning though is that snipers do notice. Thats the whole idea behind sniping, to pay attention and be the last one in with a bid.
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But the way real auctions work is not possible on the internet. You need to have it end one time or another.
Do you think yahoo and its 10-minute extensions actually has a problem with auctions never ending?
In fact, real/traditional auctions are perfectly possible on the internet, it's just that the internet makes a few other things possible as well. Like bidding that goes on for days. Forced end-times, though, are basically the result of poor initial design and unwillingness to change on the part of ebay.
If you feel cheated, then raise your maximum bid to actually become your maximum bid. anything else is just desperation bidding.
When you bid on an auction, you're constantly re-evaluating the item's value as the bids are placed. Based on each evaluation, your potential max bid will change. Again, this happens much more when the item's value is vague.
It can be frustrating, but that's the nature of the beast. With 10-minute extensions, you may be trading one type of frustration for another, but at least you're trading a dubious rule for more open competition.
Finally, f*ck "market value."
Love it or hate it, the value of goods in a second-hand collector's market is based solely on what people are willing to pay. If "noobs" are paying huge prices for stuff, then that stuff is going to start moving in the direction of being worth huge prices. It's supply and demand, and lamentably, demand for the TG-16's tiny supply has gone up. Count yourself lucky if you arrived at the party when things were still cheap.
The BINs aren't free to list, and they would disappear if they didn't eventually sell. The more ridiculous ones will probably do just that.
Finally, there is a nice community here that cares about keeping prices down for its members and encouraging people to play, but you all should ask yourself this: If a total stranger approached you with $100 to buy your loose Keith Courage, said he was aware it might be had for less but he wanted it now, and made the whole offer with a smile on his face, would you take the $100? What would you do if people like him kept coming and coming?
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When you bid on an auction, you're constantly re-evaluating the item's value as the bids are placed. Based on each evaluation, your potential max bid will change.
You should turn these into "I" statements; most people don't think this way.
Again, this happens much more when the item's value is vague.
A beginner can ascertain the going rates for even the most obscure TG16 items within a couple of months. It's really not that hard. I figured out what all of the TG16 and SMS games were going for in a couple of months after coming back to the scene in 2005. I priced the 3DO library last year in about two months and the 32x library in one week last month. If someone doesn't know what a particular game is fetching, they're either not very bright or they're not paying attention. Either way, anyone with a genuine interest in a game shouldn't be bidding less than they're willing to pay.
Finally, f*ck "market value."
Love it or hate it, the value of goods in a second-hand collector's market is based solely on what people are willing to pay. If "noobs" are paying huge prices for stuff, then that stuff is going to start moving in the direction of being worth huge prices. It's supply and demand, and lamentably, demand for the TG-16's tiny supply has gone up. Count yourself lucky if you arrived at the party when things were still cheap.
I'm not saying that "market value" doesn't exist - every gamer has to reckon with it sooner or later - but one should not be overly concerned or influenced by such nonsense. Sometimes the value I place on a game exceeds the market value; sometimes it doesn't. I paid a high price for Dynastic Hero (I like RPGs), but I'm not willing to meet the demands for Magical Chase.
The BINs aren't free to list, and they would disappear if they didn't eventually sell. The more ridiculous ones will probably do just that.
Some individual games might not be profitable, but high-volume gougers can afford to relist their entire inventory for years and still turn a profit. I once sold a lot of three bargain-bin PCE RPGs (Buria 2, Princess Minerva, and some other one I forget) to a buyer that turned out to be a store several years ago for something like $5-10. I immediately saw them all relisted for $35 each the next week. The three games continued to come up in search results, consecutively and in the same order, for the next three years.
Finally, there is a nice community here that cares about keeping prices down for its members and encouraging people to play, but you all should ask yourself this: If a total stranger approached you with $100 to buy your loose Keith Courage, said he was aware it might be had for less but he wanted it now, and made the whole offer with a smile on his face, would you take the $100? What would you do if people like him kept coming and coming?
I've already been through a similar, more realistic, scenario: I auctioned a sealed copy of Military Madness on ebay this Spring (starting at .99 cents) and a buyer PM'ed me offering something like $120-140 for it while the bidding was at $20 with four days left. I knew the game wasn't worth that much and I was very tempted to take his offer, but, frankly, there's nothing I hate more than a desperate noob, so I told him to wait it out. Sure enough, he won and the bidding ended at $52 bucks. He was shocked that I hadn't accepted his offer and told me that his max bid was apparently $400. Whatever.
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The problem with that reasoning thouch is that snipers do notice. Thats the whole idea behind sniping, to pay attention and be the last one in with a bid.
I bet there's a lot more snipers using tools to automatically place bids than there are snipers doing it manually.
When you bid on an auction, you're constantly re-evaluating the item's value as the bids are placed.
No, no I'm not.
The BINs aren't free to list...
Yes they are. Ebay offers all sorts of free listings to big sellers.
Finally, there is a nice community here that cares about keeping prices down for its members and encouraging people to play, but you all should ask yourself this: If a total stranger approached you with $100 to buy your loose Keith Courage, said he was aware it might be had for less but he wanted it now, and made the whole offer with a smile on his face, would you take the $100?
Shit no! I'd laugh, give him one of my dupes, and then offer to let him buy me a beer over a discussion of the evils of price gouging.
What would you do if people like him kept coming and coming?
Eventually I'd run out of dupes and have to start doling out boots to the ass. They're free!
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SamIAm, well, cram millions of potential bidders into an auction house, and ill consider your standpoint more seriously. Untill then i will just disagree with you.
As for sniping tools, you might be right there Necromancer, but i do it the old fashioned way.
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Aye, you're free to disagree. I stand by my statements as well.
You say you disagree about re-evaluation. I think you're confusing evaluating how much the item is worth to you vs. how much it's worth to the market. As a bidder, if you're clever, you'll try to keep the market from driving up the price beyond what it's worth to you*. That's why buyers in any auction - real or internet - don't start with their highest bids. Doing that shoots up the price in a hurry. Instead they let people outbid them, and try to game them.
"Pricing" an item before an auction only goes so far if the item is rare and there are lots of bidders. That's part of what's so intriguing about auctions - it gives the market a chance to speak, and it doesn't make up its mind until the very end.
I'm not trying to say that gouging doesn't exist. However, when it comes to games like Magical Chase, the market has spoken, and nobody other than the lucky and the well-connected is going to get that game for what it was going for 10 years ago or whatever. Sometimes I think people around here are in denial about that. With supply and demand, it's what enough people are willing to pay that matters. Whatever price other people are NOT willing to pay does not matter.
And all that aside, I still don't see the big freaking deal about 10-minute extensions. It's better for everybody but the sniper. Again, do you think it causes any problems on yahoo?
*Yes, you. :-"
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I think you are the one confused actually. Ive been talking about Ebay or internet auctions and sniping. I dont go to "normal" auctions. I set a maximum bid, i snipe, and often i win. Sometimes i dont, but then im greatful that i snipe, so i dont pay more than i was actually willing to when i rationally decided how much im willing to pay.
I have not once said anything about evaluation what so ever, and thus not if i agree or disagree with it, and i never will, since i pay what im willing to pay, regardless of what something is "market valued" at. for me its as simple as that. If someone wants to overpay for something because the "market value" is blown up, thats their problem, not mine. You may see the market as its own living entity, i see capitalism for what it is instead, and im not gonna help it along more than im forced to.
Again, ive been talking about sniping on ebay, nothing else. Dont read other things into it please as you will only confuse yourself that way.
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You say you disagree about re-evaluation. I think you're confusing evaluating how much the item is worth to you vs. how much it's worth to the market.
I'm not confusing them. The going rate for a game and its personal value are distinct factors.
As a bidder, if you're clever, you'll try to keep the market from driving up the price beyond what it's worth to you*. That's why buyers in any auction - real or internet - don't start with their highest bids.
You're welcome to refer to me in the second person; my objection is when you attribute personal, irrational, behavior to buyers in general.
Anyway, you make an interesting comparison and it holds true for standard auctions, online and otherwise, but Ebay doesn't work like that. Ebay's arbitrary end times have created a completely different paradigm. Pardon my hypocrisy while I now attempt to define the behavior of strangers...
The Four Types of Bidders on Ebay:
"Cruisers" - akin to the great, right whales filtering sustenance from the ocean through open mouths, Cruisers bid token amounts on countless items as they find them. Typically resellers or wealthy, indiscriminate collectors, these weirdos account for most of the early, pathetically low bids that appear. They don't worry about end times and they don't worry about being outbid; quantity alone sustains them.
"The Herd" - indecisive or clueless idiots with an integrity deficit. These are the noobs, the desperate, and the reselling gougers who get in bidding wars and allow the values of others to dictate their budget.
"Joe Gamer" - a dying breed of casual bidders who aren't particularly attached to the outcome. Sometimes they'll snipe, but typically they just place their max bid as late as conveniently possible and hope for the best. They don't get in bidding wars and they can't be bothered to sit by the computer at 3AM or pay for a sniping service.
"Snipers" - thought to be a fringe group of troublemakers, Snipers actually account for 70% of all gamers, collectors, and resellers on ebay.
"Pricing" an item before an auction only goes so far if the item is rare and there are lots of bidders. That's part of what's so intriguing about auctions - it gives the market a chance to speak, and it doesn't make up its mind until the very end.
Ebay auctions, especially if there's a bidding war, aren't necessarily representative of "the marketâ€. Some of them are. Others represent thirty-year-old bachelors with a tax return. And we're not dealing with any kind of a market in the traditional sense - Ebay, Amazon, Yahoo and the rest are a very small, global monopoly in which we have to compete with virtually every other TG16 enthusiast on the planet every time we want to buy a game. The brick-and-mortar stores and mom-and-pop online dealers that once provided some healthy, capitalist competition have either dried up or changed their prices to reflect ebay rates.
I really don’t understand where you’re coming from. Do you really sit there and constantly adjudicate your bid based on what other people are willing to pay that day? Most people snipe or wait as long as possible. “Pricing†works. I know what games are generally worth and I know what I’m willing to pay. I walk away from countless items in my watch list or in the last five seconds when I waiting to snipe because bidding goes too high.
And all that aside, I still don't see the big freaking deal about 10-minute extensions. It's better for everybody but the sniper. Again, do you think it causes any problems on yahoo?
I don’t know, I’ve never bought anything on yahoo Japan auctions.
You keep saying that extensions would lead to higher auctions for sellers and more fees for ebay; please explain how this benefits non-sniping buyers (never mind that most serious buyers are snipers). Higher prices = bad for buyers. The buyers are already f*cked. Sane people avoid bidding wars, period. Extensions work in a standard auction format because you’re standing in a room with X number of people who’ve all managed to put clothes on that day and drive somewhere. On ebay, it would only give the most indecisive, desperate collectors on the planet more time to jerk off and rethink their bids.
I'm not trying to say that gouging doesn't exist. However, when it comes to games like Magical Chase, the market has spoken, and nobody other than the lucky and the well-connected is going to get that game for what it was going for 10 years ago or whatever. Sometimes I think people around here are in denial about that.
Here at least we’re in full agreement. Prices ain't what they used to be. Our moderator Nat has argued time and again that Magical Chase is worth something like $180 and it’s possible for anyone to find such a deal. The fact is, he helped the old-school TG collector from Dark City productions auction off his games here on the forums (perhaps the least-inflated TG market in the world), in the shout box (which half of us ignore) one night when one or two dozen people were around. He would not have won it for anything near that had Estaban, I, or countless other members known about the auction.
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I like to say "I avoid bidding wars". :P
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You're welcome to refer to me in the second person; my objection is when you attribute personal, irrational, behavior to buyers in general.
Ebay doesn't work like that. Ebay's arbitrary end times have created a completely different paradigm.
My whole point is that this paradigm sucks, and it doesn't have to be quite like it is. Sniping works, and smart ebayers do it, but that doesn't mean it's a good system.
Ebay auctions, especially if there's a bidding war, aren't necessarily representative of "the marketâ€. Some of them are. Others represent thirty-year-old bachelors with a tax return. And we're not dealing with any kind of a market in the traditional sense - Ebay, Amazon, Yahoo and the rest are a very small, global monopoly in which we have to compete with virtually every other TG16 enthusiast on the planet every time we want to buy a game. The brick-and-mortar stores and mom-and-pop online dealers that once provided some healthy, capitalist competition have either dried up or changed their prices to reflect ebay rates.
Where exactly is the injustice happening in this situation?
Ebay and the gang are "the market" for probably the vast majority of retro-gamers, and they have become the dominant forces in determining the market value of 2nd hand collector goods. Overall, despite some downsides, it's good that they exist. They give everybody in the world access to buying and selling anything they could want. If mom-and-pops can't keep up, it ain't because of price-gouging BINs. It's because ebay deals are too cheap. Isn't that what you want?
I really don’t understand where you’re coming from. Do you really sit there and constantly adjudicate your bid based on what other people are willing to pay that day? Most people snipe or wait as long as possible. “Pricing†works. I know what games are generally worth and I know what I’m willing to pay. I walk away from countless items in my watch list or in the last five seconds when I waiting to snipe because bidding goes too high.
A big factor in determining how much you'll bid is simply trying to avoid paying more than the item can reliably be resold for. For collectors, that's basically the definition of "paying too much".
If the item is so rare as to be a once-a-year thing, then yes, I really do believe that people adjust their estimations of the item's market value based on the progress of a single auction. Until the auction ends, that's the only way they can gauge what the current demand is.
I don’t know, I’ve never bought anything on yahoo Japan auctions.
I've bought about ten things and watched 2-3 times as many auctions end. I don't recall a single one going into overtime. I would bet money that the number of auctions that go beyond 30 minutes extra is no more than one in a thousand. People have no motivation to keep bidding that late when extensions are in place.
Remember that every time someone bids, the price goes up, and it can't go up forever.
You keep saying that extensions would lead to higher auctions for sellers and more fees for ebay; please explain how this benefits non-sniping buyers (never mind that most serious buyers are snipers). Higher prices = bad for buyers. The buyers are already f*cked. Sane people avoid bidding wars, period. Extensions work in a standard auction format because you’re standing in a room with X number of people who’ve all managed to put clothes on that day and drive somewhere. On ebay, it would only give the most indecisive, desperate collectors on the planet more time to jerk off and rethink their bids.
OK, first of all, higher prices are good for the buyer who would prefer to pay them in order to get the item. Tell me you've never lost an auction and said to yourself that yeah, you actually would have paid another $2 to get the item now instead of waiting for the next chance. With time extensions, the item will more often go to the guy who really is willing to pay the most, and that's more satisfying for the group as a whole. The seller makes the most money, the guy who wanted it most got the item, and the rest can tell themselves that they didn't pay more than they wanted to.
Second of all, what's with all the vilifying of collectors with money? The "thirty-year-old bachelors with a tax return" have just as much a right to participate in all this as anyone else. I'm sure they know how to dress themselves, too. Yes, resellers are kind of sketchy, but passing around great deals willy-nilly can be stupid as well.
Remember the $100 Keith Courage scenario? If you lean toward giving it to the guy for $1, then you are indeed very kind. However, when that guy turns around and sells it to the next guy for a $99 profit, it's not much use complaining. Unless you can somehow enforce terms of resale, you should always sell it for as much as you can get. In other words, take the damn $100.
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However, when it comes to games like Magical Chase, the market has spoken, and nobody other than the lucky and the well-connected is going to get that game for what it was going for 10 years ago or whatever. Sometimes I think people around here are in denial about that.
So the only thing that matters in determining its value is the latest eBay auction? Gimme a break.
Tell me you've never lost an auction and said to yourself that yeah, you actually would have paid another $2 to get the item now instead of waiting for the next chance.
Never - why would I place a max bid of $20 when I'm really willing to pay $22? Besides, it's more than likely that the winning bidders max bid was higher than the winning bid amount.
With time extensions, the item will more often go to the guy who really is willing to pay the most, and that's more satisfying for the group as a whole. The seller makes the most money, the guy who wanted it most got the item, and the rest can tell themselves that they didn't pay more than they wanted to.
Yes, it's most satisfying to me when I pay absolute top dollar. I f*cking hate it when I get a good deal.
In other words, take the damn $100.
In other words, be an a$$hole. Other people might be a$$holes, so you should be one too.
* forgot this: *
I've bought about ten things and watched 2-3 times as many auctions end. I don't recall a single one going into overtime. I would bet money that the number of auctions that go beyond 30 minutes extra is no more than one in a thousand. People have no motivation to keep bidding that late when extensions are in place.
If time extensions are rarely ever needed, why is it so important that eBay add the option?
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I've never had the extension on Yahoo go forever. I had one go for an extra hour once.
I still won. f*ckers. I only had to reup my bid and try scrounging for money. It went for the proper going rate though. I was hoping for a bargain, but the snipers came out to try doing the same. -_-;
If some retard came up to me with 100$ for KC, I'd take the 100$ and donate it to one of those retard charities so the buyer and others like him can get some well needed assistance! >:] lol
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So the only thing that matters in determining its value is the latest eBay auction? Gimme a break.
Never said it was the only thing. Just a major factor. Do you disagree with that as well?
Never - why would I place a max bid of $20 when I'm really willing to pay $22? Besides, it's more than likely that the winning bidders max bid was higher than the winning bid amount.
Fairly likely, yes. But who knows? And what if the item was ~$100 and rarely came along? Would you not for a moment question spending an additional 2% to get yourself the item now instead of later?
I'd gladly pay the $2 not to have to wait for another month.
Yes, it's most satisfying to me when I pay absolute top dollar. I f*cking hate it when I get a good deal.
Good for you.
Think about this for a moment - could it be that the fear of being sniped sometimes leads people to artificially inflate their maximum bids, and ultimately the item's market value? Could it be that in an ebay without sniping, for every instance of an item's end-price going up because of additional bids in overtime, there would be another item that sells for less because people bid a little more sincerely?
At least both results are fair. Sniping, on the other hand, is ultimately nothing more than a sneaky trick. You're trying to prevent your competition from having a chance to bid higher than you. You say that they should have bid higher in the first place, when all they were trying to do with their less-than-true-max bid was keep the price from flying out of control and save money - the very same thing you're trying to do. The difference is that they weren't trying to wholly prevent anyone from outbidding them.
It works, and I've done it, but sniping is devious and unnecessary in online auctions. That real-life auction houses use a "going once, going twice" type of system and both buyers and sellers seem to prefer this is indication enough that forced end-times are ebay's bad design. Yahoo proves that there's no reason why an internet auction can't be just like a real auction in this case.
In other words, be an a$$hole. Other people might be a$$holes, so you should be one too.
Well, either that or don't say shit when the guy - a stranger who owes you nothing after your transaction is complete - sells it for $100.
If time extensions are rarely ever needed, why is it so important that eBay add the option?
Because it changes bidder's behavior altogether. Sniping ceases to be effective. In my opinion, that change is for the better.
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When its something I really want, I will bid snipe, or whatever its called. Sometimes it works, sometimes it does not. I know what amount I plan on bidding up to before I actually enter that "snipe" bid. :)
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I do shotgun bidding sometimes.
I go find like a buncha crap I like, and bid on all of it and forget about it.
then I get emails like a week later saying I owe like, 200$ on eBay and I go
f*ck.
then I go
SWEET. LOOK AT THIS CRAP I WON.
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Never said it was the only thing. Just a major factor. Do you disagree with that as well?
I do - it's part of the picture, but not the biggest part; if a mere handful are willing to pay $1000 for M.C. when as many copies (or more) have been sold off eBay for considerably less, then those few high priced sales are not setting the worth of the hundreds of other copies in existence. By the way, why are you so focused on M.C.? It's relative rarity makes it a rather different kettle of fish compared to 99.9999999999% of other auctions.
Fairly likely, yes. But who knows? And what if the item was ~$100 and rarely came along? Would you not for a moment question spending an additional 2% to get yourself the item now instead of later?
I'd gladly pay the $2 not to have to wait for another month.
Then you were willing to pay $102 (or $105, or $110, etc.) and should have bid accordingly. You might want to rethink your definition of 'max bid' - to me and other logically minded fellows, it means the most I'd comfortably be willing to pay, not some pie in the sky, hoped for price.
Think about this for a moment - could it be that the fear of being sniped sometimes leads people to artificially inflate their maximum bids, and ultimately the item's market value? Could it be that in an ebay without sniping, for every instance of an item's end-price going up because of additional bids in overtime, there would be another item that sells for less because people bid a little more sincerely?
The only way this works is if snipers quit bidding all together, which obviously won't happen. They'll just place their bids earlier, more people will react/overreact and place higher bids than they intended (part of your constant reevaluation of worth), and the ending values would be higher. Despite what you believe, that's not a good thing.
At least both results are fair. Sniping, on the other hand, is ultimately nothing more than a sneaky trick.
It's so sneaky that everyone knows about it and expects it.
You're trying to prevent your competition from having a chance to bid higher than you.
No, I'm trying to prevent others from rebidding higher (there's a difference). Besides resellers looking to flip pricier items, it's people like you that keep re-upping their bid by a few dollars to try and top the current high bidder that are driving up prices. Sniping is a defense against such silliness.
You say that they should have bid higher in the first place, when all they were trying to do with their less-than-true-max bid was keep the price from flying out of control and save money - the very same thing you're trying to do. The difference is that they weren't trying to wholly prevent anyone from outbidding them.
Less than 10% of my bid snipes are successful, either because bidding has already progressed beyond my snipe amount, due to a more aggressive sniper, or because a previous bidders max bid was higher, so others are obviously getting their chance to win.
It works, and I've done it, but sniping is devious and unnecessary in online auctions. That real-life auction houses use a "going once, going twice" type of system and both buyers and sellers seem to prefer this is indication enough that forced end-times are ebay's bad design. Yahoo proves that there's no reason why an internet auction can't be just like a real auction in this case.
Have you been to a live auction? It's hardly uncommon for someone to wait for the last moment to start bidding, leaving others very little time to 're-evaluate' what they're willing to bid. Consequently, bidders have already set in their minds what their max bid is. Do you see where I'm going with this?
Well, either that or don't say shit when the guy - a stranger who owes you nothing after your transaction is complete - sells it for $100.
No thanks, I'm a adult. If someone takes his good fortune and parlays it into a payday by f*cking someone over, I'll bitch about it all I want (a.k.a. - verbally throwing them on the ground!).
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I do - it's part of the picture, but not the biggest part; if a mere handful are willing to pay $1000 for M.C. when as many copies (or more) have been sold off eBay for considerably less, then those few high priced sales are not setting the worth of the hundreds of other copies in existence. By the way, why are you so focused on M.C.? It's relative rarity makes it a rather different kettle of fish compared to 99.9999999999% of other auctions.
I suppose we'll just have to disagree about ebay's influence. As for MC, I'm just using it as an example. Have I mentioned it that much?
Then you were willing to pay $102 (or $105, or $110, etc.) and should have bid accordingly. You might want to rethink your definition of 'max bid' - to me and other logically minded fellows, it means the most I'd comfortably be willing to pay, not some pie in the sky, hoped for price.
I really don't buy that people in general can decide a price like that and not blink when a 1% increase could potentially make the difference to get them the item. I think people have a price that they'd really like to pay, and after that it becomes a darkening spectrum toward an unacceptable price, and they may bail at any point along the way.
Furthermore, my point still stands that people don't want to reveal their max bids until it's necessary for the sake of keeping the price as low as possible.
The only way this works is if snipers quit bidding all together, which obviously won't happen. They'll just place their bids earlier, more people will react/overreact and place higher bids than they intended (part of your constant reevaluation of worth), and the ending values would be higher. Despite what you believe, that's not a good thing.
Maybe that concept I mentioned works, maybe it doesn't. Extensions that prevent sniping still strike me as being more fair. Snipers won't stop bidding, but they'll be left with no advantages that others don't have.
It's so sneaky that everyone knows about it and expects it.
Regardless of how many know about it, nothing changes about the fact that snipers are trying to block people from even having the chance to outbid them. "Sneaky" was a poor choice of adjective. How about "selfish"?
No, I'm trying to prevent others from rebidding higher (there's a difference).
Please explain. I see no difference between "rebidding" and "bidding". Neither does ebay or any other site, or they'd only let you make one max bid.
Besides resellers looking to flip pricier items, it's people like you that keep re-upping their bid by a few dollars to try and top the current high bidder that are driving up prices. Sniping is a defense against such silliness.
Those "re-ups" are honest bids. You have the chance to outbid me. If you don't, then I guess I'm willing to pay more than you. What's the problem? That's how auctions work.
Think I'm driving up the market? Ask sellers how they feel about that. This is business.
Less than 10% of my bid snipes are successful, either because bidding has already progressed beyond my snipe amount, due to a more aggressive sniper, or because a previous bidders max bid was higher, so others are obviously getting their chance to win.
I don't think sniping is a dire problem, but I do think that yahoo's solution is better and more fair.
Have you been to a live auction? It's hardly uncommon for someone to wait for the last moment to start bidding, leaving others very little time to 're-evaluate' what they're willing to bid. Consequently, bidders have already set in their minds what their max bid is. Do you see where I'm going with this?
I get what you're trying to say, but if people were that strongly decided on what their maximums were, auctions wouldn't exist as they do. Rather, everyone would privately submit a single bid, the seller would take the highest one, and that would be the end of it. Yet bids in an open auction keep coming because people change their minds about how much they're willing to pay.
No thanks, I'm a adult. If someone takes his good fortune and parlays it into a payday by f*cking someone over, I'll bitch about it all I want (a.k.a. - verbally throwing them on the ground!).
I think it's immoral for a someone to come into a community like this one and turn good deals that are meant to help other members play into profit. That violates an unwritten term of the community. If they acquire and turn stuff over completely within a marketplace like ebay, though, I have to say that it may be frustrating, but it's fair.
Let the buyer beware.
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Sniping, on the other hand, is ultimately nothing more than a sneaky trick.
Necro's right - it's a defense against silliness. I like said before, everyone has the ability to bid whatever the game is worth to them. This universe grants us "choice" in everything we do and no one else has the power to take that away. Weak-minded people blame snipers for their losses rather than feel regret from bad decision making.
And you're back to assuming things about me that aren't true - I have never once wished I had bid an extra two dollars. First, you never know how high the winner's max bid really was. It could have topped at $2, but more likely it was $20. Second, my max bid really is my max bid. When I just barely win an auction, I'm kind of happy, but I also feel a substantial amount of "oh f*ck, it's going to be two days before I can come up with that $72.11." I NEVER feel regret from a loss. The auction frenzy quickly vanishes and I walk away glad to have the money for something else. The only time I feel regret is when I forget to bid entirely and the item sells for a pittance.
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My max bid, at least in the final hour, is usually as much as I can allow myself to pay as well. However, I still believe what I said in that second-to-last paragraph in my last post.
What you call "silliness", I call people each getting the same opportunity, weak-minded or otherwise. I'll take that equality over you and other individual's vigilante moderation of "bad decision making" via your sniping.
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Sooo many walls o text!!! My eyes hurt.
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I really don't buy that people in general can decide a price like that and not blink when a 1% increase could potentially make the difference to get them the item.
But where does it end? I bid $100, he bids $101, I rebid to $102 (it's a mere $2!), his max bid automatically takes it to $103, I rebid to $104 (it's only $2 more!), his max bid automatically drives it up to $105, I rebid to $106 (it's still only two bucks more!), etc.
Furthermore, my point still stands that people don't want to reveal their max bids until it's necessary for the sake of keeping the price as low as possible.
But nobody can see your max bid until you've been outbid.... what're you trying to do? Hide your real max bid as long as possible? Just snipe already.
Please explain. I see no difference between "rebidding" and "bidding". Neither does ebay or any other site, or they'd only let you make one max bid.
bid: to make an offer to pay a certain price
rebid: to offer a revised bid.
Are you being intentionally obtuse? In any case, I didn't say you weren't allowed to revise bids.
Those "re-ups" are honest bids. You have the chance to outbid me. If you don't, then I guess I'm willing to pay more than you. What's the problem? That's how auctions work.
And you have the option of bidding an item above my limit or setting a max bid above my limit. If you don't, then I guess I was willing to pay more than you. What's the problem? That's how auctions work.
Think I'm driving up the market? Ask sellers how they feel about that. This is business.
It's srs bsns! Of course the sellers (especially resellers) like the market being driven ever higher.... what's your point?
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So I take it that when you snipe, it's always your first bid? Because if it's not, you're being a hypocrite. You're preventing someone from doing what you're doing when you have no particular right, just a better sniping program.
But where does it end? I bid $100, he bids $101, I rebid to $102 (it's a mere $2!), his max bid automatically takes it to $103, I rebid to $104 (it's only $2 more!), his max bid automatically drives it up to $105, I rebid to $106 (it's still only two bucks more!), etc.
Trust me, it won't go on forever.
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I get what you're trying to say, but if people were that strongly decided on what their maximums were, auctions wouldn't exist as they do. Rather, everyone would privately submit a single bid, the seller would take the highest one, and that would be the end of it. Yet bids in an open auction keep coming because people change their minds about how much they're willing to pay.
You've got a good point here. As much as I try to ignore it, there is a "fun" factor that draws people to auctions and some folks thrive on the excitement. To me it looks really stupid; like mindless consumerism at best or gambling at worst. I lump bid-revisers in the same category as the lifeforms who stand in line and trample each other on Black Friday...
ANYWAY, yeah, I guess my preference for sniping is an effort to turn ebay into that everyone-place-one-bid-and-be-done-with-it system you mentioned. That would be sweet. =P~
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ANYWAY, yeah, I guess my preference for sniping is an effort to turn ebay into that everyone-place-one-bid-and-be-done-with-it system you mentioned. That would be sweet. =P~
Now THAT would strike me as being fair. :)
However, I'll take the auction format myself.
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So I take it that when you snipe, it's always your first bid?
Yep. True to its name, I only have one max bid.
Trust me, it won't go on forever.
Of course not, but it also doesn't just stop at 'only $2 more'.
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Yep. True to its name, I only have one max bid.
All right, then.
The approach you advocate isn't unfair. However, think of it this way - If everyone shoots in one bid in the last second (the timing should make no difference to them), and ebay calculates the high bidder right then and there without anyone so much as even seeing what others are doing, it's hardly an auction anymore. It's a new game altogether, and I'm not sure how much I'd want to play, as a buyer or a seller. Maybe that's just me, though.
Trust me, it won't go on forever.
Of course not, but it also doesn't just stop at 'only $2 more'.
I'm still not worried.
EDIT: My final thought on this:
In order for sniping and forced end-times to be fair, information about how much is being bid should be kept a secret until after the winner is determined. This prevents anyone from having an unfair advantage. I believe the ideal would be to give sellers a choice of two options: having a forced end-time coupled with non-disclosed bids, or having openly visible bids coupled with the possibility of end-time extension.
Does that jive with your views?
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Lost another auction for a complete (no box) Neutopia. This is the 3rd time I've been outbid on this game. Looks like if I want to win this from ebay I'll have to spend more than $25 shipped
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Lost another auction for a complete (no box) Neutopia. This is the 3rd time I've been outbid on this game. Looks like if I want to win this from ebay I'll have to spend more than $25 shipped
thats why i buy it now, in a month that price will jump and then youll be in it for more.
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There was a complete in jewel case BIN Neutopia for $25 (+$5 shipping) that I passed on... kinda wishing I didn't now as all the auctions have been going for slightly more lately
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In order for sniping and forced end-times to be fair...
Does that jive with your views?
The fairness argument still doesn't make a lick of sense. Everyone has the exact same footing on ebay. I'm not friends with any employees giving me insider bidding information, I don't have a price guide with exact market values, I'm not hacking anyone's computer or blocking their internet access at the last second, and I'm not a mind reader or a hypnotist. If my snipe doesn't win the auction (which happens frequently), I'm not left with any time to revise my bid, either. Does sniping deviate from a traditional auction? Yes. Maybe it even makes it less "fun" for those with an appetite for such things, but ANYONE COULD DO WHAT I DO (and most do). If someone doesn't feel like sitting at their computer, then they can pay twenty cents and use Esnipe.
Virtually every auction has multiple snipers waiting at the end; it's a fact of life. Everyone experiences what it's like to be sniped within their first few visits to ebay. Fool me once...
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Virtually every auction has multiple snipers waiting at the end; it's a fact of life. Everyone experiences what it's like to be sniped within their first few visits to ebay. Fool me once...
On the other hand, with the system I mentioned, there would be no fooling at all. The terms would be clear from the start, and the whole "auction" masquerade would come to an end. Is that not more fair?
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Your proposal might lead to more deliberation, it might prolong the "thrill" of consumerism and compulsive bidding, and it would certainly lead to higher prices, but it has nothing to do with fairness. The only way in which the current system is unfair is that snipers who choose to live in extremely rural locations may be forced to use dial-up, in which case they have to either place their snipes ten seconds before everyone else or use a sniping service - not a big deal.
My jaw dropped the first time I was sniped in 1998, but it wasn't unfair because I would not have exceeded my max bid. The shock came from naiveté - I had begun to feel ownership for an object that was not yet mine. The lesson I learned was not to count my chickens before they're hatched. Making a false assumption or taking a clumsy first step is part doing anything for the first time. Everybody on ebay has equal footing and everybody learns the rules of the road in short order.
Is ebay the best system? No. IMO, sniping and traditional auctions are both a pain in the butt because they both require participation in the final moments. Is ebay unfair? Absolutely not.
EDIT: also, they're no masquerade - every auction has a clock counting down. No one would expect extensions at the last second.
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Just one quick note, the existence of snipers and retaliatory bidding just causes more people to snipe. Example, yesterday a game I wanted was due to end. I knew what I wanted to bid long before the auction was over. But because of the likely possibility of jackasses bidding over and over and over and raising the price until they felt the satisfaction of "winning". I waited until 5 seconds left to put in my bid. This didn't give any retaliatory bidders who weren't also prepared to snipe an opportunity to outbid me. And I won my game for about 50.00 less than Vestcoat got for his copy a few months ago. This is consumerism at its finest, if you have the time and opportunity, good deals can be had if you're willing to bid at the right time.
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Is ebay the best system? No.
That's all I really wanted to hear.
Rather than get into a semantics debate about the word "fair", let me just ask - Why not implement that system I mentioned? Don't you think it's better if forcing all bids to be concealed until the end leads people to think that they might as well just make one large bid anytime before the auction ends? Isn't that what you want?
Ebay in it's current state is trying to have what you want (1 max bid per person) and what I want (a guaranteed rebid opportunity for a person with an undecided maximum) at the same time, and it's simply bad design.
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Don't you think it's better if forcing all bids to be concealed until the end leads people to think that they might as well just make one large bid anytime before the auction ends? Isn't that what you want?
This sounds like a silent auction, which many people would definitely not like. Few would like waiting 'til the end to see how much they've spent (if anything), being forced to pass up other possible deals for fear of overreaching or ending up with two of the same title.
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I just bid right away. If I am outbid, I go find a new one and see if I can get it for the price I want to pay.
I usually go for about half what I am willing to pay, and if I get outbid and haven't found it elsewhere, I shoot it up to my max bid.
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Few would like waiting 'til the end to see how much they've spent (if anything), being forced to pass up other possible deals for fear of overreaching or ending up with two of the same title.
But is that so different from waiting until the end for the impending sniper fight?
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Yes, because if you already bid your max and you've been outbid, you can go off and find a new auction.
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Considering that auctions for things you want virtually never end simultaneously, that shouldn't be important. Bid your max bid on the one that's ending next. Didn't get it? Do it again for the next one.
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When Arkhan is the voice of reason, you're clearly listening in on a crazy people conversation.
Seriously, retards. Just bid. Once. Doesn't matter when. Learn by email I you've won or not.
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But is that so different from waiting until the end for the impending sniper fight?
It is different when the price is already higher than what I'm willing to pay, hours or even days before the auction ends.
Considering that auctions for things you want virtually never end simultaneously, that shouldn't be important. Bid your max bid on the one that's ending next. Didn't get it? Do it again for the next one.
I don't live in front of a computer, so it's quite common (especially on weekends) that two or more auctions end before I'm back online. Why should I wait around if the price is already higher than what I want to pay?
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So it's down to convenience vs. opportunity, eh?
Perhaps it speaks well for your argument that I'm actually going to have to bow out now due to inconvenience. My plane across the Pacific for my brother's wedding in New York leaves today, and I have to get ready.
Happy bidding, anyway.
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My plane across the Pacific for my brother's wedding in New York leaves today, and I have to get ready.
Damn. I was sure Necromancer would hit 10,000 posts before this conversation ended. Looks like I owe Bernie $20.
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My plane across the Pacific for my brother's wedding in New York leaves today, and I have to get ready.
Damn. I was sure Necromancer would hit 10,000 posts before this conversation ended. Looks like I owe Bernie $20.
?? Why would you owe me $20?
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Damn. I was sure Necromancer would hit 10,000 posts before this conversation ended. Looks like I owe Bernie $20.
I've got a layover, and Seoul has free wifi, so I'll see what I can do.
Necro, the truth is, I don't like silent auctions any more than you do. You're totally right about the inconvenience factor as well, which I hadn't even thought of. But let's keep thinking about alternatives for a moment.
What about a system where bids are visable, and everyone only gets one bid? That would apparently suit most people here just fine. However, how popular would this system be? There would probably be a huge reaction against it.
The whole idea behind an auction, the thing that brings people to the table, is that the guy who is willing to pay the most gets the item. With Ebay's current system, you can have a guy who has decided that he is willing to pay more, but can't because he was cut off by the time limit before he even knew he was outbid. He never got a chance to make the decision to let the item go.
I know that's not how you and vestcoat tick, and that it's possible to place a higher bid in advance of the end, yet you guys at least seem to acknowledge that people with uncertain maximums will always exist in spite that. However, your response to their situation on ebay is to blow them off and say that they're too stupid to know what's good for them and that giving them their way would poison the market. It's awfully bold of you to say that a cheaper price for you is better than a higher price for them, even though they and the seller would disagree. It's the interest of one sniper against the interest of two others.
How do you think seasoned bidders of traditional live auctions would react to the proposal of a time limit? I realize it would be hard to implement, but set that aside for a moment. How would the group as a whole feel? Never mind the sellers, most bidders would probably say that they don't want it because they don't want to lose any opportunity to outbid someone. I bet most yahoo users would say so, too, and I bet the majority ebayers would also say the same thing given the chance to try it.
The reason why I think ebay should have time extensions like yahoo is because it's the best system for the whole group. Nobody risks being cut off by time, only by money, and that's something I think all winners, all losers, and all sellers alike feel is fair.
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The whole idea behind an auction, the thing that brings people to the table, is that the guy who is willing to pay the most gets the item. With Ebay's current system, you can have a guy who has decided that he is willing to pay more, but can't because he was cut off by the time limit before he even knew he was outbid. He never got a chance to make the decision to let the item go.
He had a chance by setting his max bid as his MAX BID. Unless it's his first auction or he's a complete moron, he should've expected bid sniping and bid appropriately.
I know that's not how you and vestcoat tick, and that it's possible to place a higher bid in advance of the end, yet you guys at least seem to acknowledge that people with uncertain maximums will always exist in spite that.
Except in the rare case of something like Magical Chase, similar items are sold regularly and there's absolutely no reason that bidders can't figure out what an item is worth before the other guy bids.
However, your response to their situation on ebay is to blow them off and say that they're too stupid to know what's good for them and that giving them their way would poison the market. It's awfully bold of you to say that a cheaper price for you is better than a higher price for them, even though they and the seller would disagree. It's the interest of one sniper against the interest of two others.
How many times do I have to say that sellers, eBay, and omg rar3z collectors obviously love high prices but this community does not? If you're so eager to pay more, then set your maximum bid as your MAXIMUM BID!
The reason why I think ebay should have time extensions like yahoo is because it's the best system for the whole group. Nobody risks being cut off by time, only by money, and that's something I think all winners, all losers, and all sellers alike feel is fair.
The only thing 'unfair' about the current system is that you have to figure out what something is worth instead of just bidding $1 more than what the other guy thinks it's worth.
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?? Why would you owe me $20?
I was pretending that I made a bet with you an lost. Now you'll never see that $20. :P
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With Ebay's current system, you can have a guy who has decided that he is willing to pay more, but can't because he was cut off by the time limit before he even knew he was outbid. He never got a chance to make the decision to let the item go.
Them's the breaks. You can't shelter idiots from the world, dude. If you protect them from being outbid, they're still going to get gouged on BIN's, and ripped off by the fast-talking salesman at Radioshack, and screwed on the stockmarket, and they're always going to buy their plane tickets at the worst possible time. The world is full of rewards for people with the rare ability to place a value on an object in a reasonable amount of time. If a 3-10 day auction isn't long enough, another five minutes isn't going to do any good.
And you can take this "higher prices = everybody wins" BS and jump straight off a cliff.