PCEngineFans.com - The PC Engine and TurboGrafx-16 Community Forum
NEC PC-Engine/SuperGrafx => PC Engine/SuperGrafx Discussion => Topic started by: Spector on April 07, 2007, 10:25:09 AM
-
These games are very similar, as Chan and Chan ripped off the Wonderboy arcade game but changed the sprites and messed around with the gameplay a little. Looking at the two games, I think the rip off is better than the original. Chan and Chan's sprites are big and expressive, and the game overall seems to have more personality, even without the farting. I also think some of the baddies in Wonderboy are really annoying to fight against. After a couple of games, my swearbox is full.
What's everyone else's opinion? Which do you prefer?
-
You're talking about the original Wonderboy, not Wonderboy in Monster Land as the subject suggests, right?
I'm having trouble drawing any parallels between Kato & Ken and Wonderboy in Monster Land, aside from the usualy "run 'n jump" elements that are common to ALL platformers. It's like saying Granzort is a direct rip off of Super Mario Bros.
Personally, I don't care much for Kato & Ken/JJ & Jeff. I guess I shouldn't be too harsh-- I didn't give the game much of a chance. I turned it off before I even finished the first level. Literally farting around and breaking rocks to reveal piles of shit that harm you doesn't really get me going. But who knows, maybe things change for the better after level 1.
-
But who knows, maybe things change for the better after level 1.
No, you already have the right idea.
-
You're talking about the original Wonderboy, not Wonderboy in Monster Land as the subject suggests, right?
No I mean what I'm saying. They are very similar.
Personally, I don't care much for Kato & Ken/JJ & Jeff. I guess I shouldn't be too harsh-- I didn't give the game much of a chance. I turned it off before I even finished the first level. Literally farting around and breaking rocks to reveal piles of shit that harm you doesn't really get me going. But who knows, maybe things change for the better after level 1.
Well, that's quite an informed and objective review! :D
-
Its obvious that that they have a bunch of similarities. I'm guessing that they share some staff.
I like Wonderboy better(nostalgia), but KC&KC/JJ&J is still a good game. It just takes some time to get into, which most people don't give it.
-
You're talking about the original Wonderboy, not Wonderboy in Monster Land as the subject suggests, right?
No I mean what I'm saying. They are very similar.
I'm interested in hearing why you think Kato & Ken is similar to Wonderboy in Monster Land. I'm sure you must be talking about the ORIGINAL Wonderboy game.
ORIGINAL WONDERBOY:
(http://hg101.classicgaming.gamespy.com/wonderboy/wboyarcade.png)
Wonderboy in Monster Land:
(http://hg101.classicgaming.gamespy.com/wonderboy/wb2arcade-1.png)
Wonderboy in Monster Land is completely different from the first game. There is no fruit, no vitality meter, no rocks that you trip over, etc. Wonderboy in Monster Land is a platformer with RPG-ish elements (collect monies, buy armour and weapons, so on and so forth). In fact, you'd be hard-pressed to find any similarities between Wonderboy and Wonderboy in Monster Land other than the fact they both feature the same hero.
Unless there is a secret dynamic to Kato & Ken that I am missing, that game has few to none of the elements that make Wonderboy in Monster Land what it is.
The original Wonderboy, on the other hand, is quite similar. Collect fruit to keep your vitality meter up, trip over rocks as you run through the forest, etc.
Just for arguments sake, I just now popped in my Super HuCard since that's the only copy of Kato & Ken that I have. I actually played into the second level (!!) this time and I still am not seeing any resemblence to Wonderboy in Monster Land. However, I was collecting a lot of fruit and tripping over a lot of rocks which reminded a lot of the original Wonderboy.
EDIT:
Well, that's quite an informed and objective review! :D
Well, you wanted opinions. :) And I can safely say, after playing a little bit further this time, I still don't like it any better than I did before.
-
Wonderboy and Wonderboy in Monster Land other than the fact they both feature the same hero.
That, they do not. You are not Tom-Tom in any other game than the first. Wonder Boy is not the name of some guy, it's just a weird title.
-
Well technically I prefer Kato and Ken Chan, but as everyone has already guessed, I think J.J. AND JEFF kicks all their asses! Seriously I hate it when people say they hate J.J. and Jeff but looooove Wonderboy :P . Kato and Ken Chan is definitely good, but J.J. and Jeff is a little better in my opinion.
-
Wonderboy and Wonderboy in Monster Land other than the fact they both feature the same hero.
That, they do not. You are not Tom-Tom in any other game than the first. Wonder Boy is not the name of some guy, it's just a weird title.
Oh, fine, poo on you. :wink:
So let me rephrase.
There is absolutely nothing similar about Wonderboy and Wonderboy in Monster Land other than the fact they both feature a hero.
-
Literally farting around and breaking rocks to reveal piles of shit that harm you doesn't really get me going. But who knows, maybe things change for the better after level 1.
That's just hilarious! :lol:
-
Whichever you are talking about, both games are better than Chan & Chan.
-
Literally farting around and breaking rocks to reveal piles of shit that harm you doesn't really get me going.
Makes me want to buy it.
-
Literally farting around and breaking rocks to reveal piles of shit that harm you doesn't really get me going.
Makes me want to buy it.
It's not half as entertaining as it sounds.
-
I thought it was not bad myself. Too many stages, but it's pretty playable. Wonderboy in Monsterland meanwhile has that really irritating guy at the end of stage two. My swearbox was bursting after fighting him, such was the frustration. You don't get cheap moments like that in Chan and Chan...well, apart from the farting.
-
Whichever you are talking about, both games are better than Chan & Chan.
Semi-agreed - toilet humor is only funny is small doses. While Kato and Ken Chan is similar to Wonderboy, it doesn't feel like a blatant ripoff and is in some ways superior. It's a decent platformer but gets monotonous if you miss the shortcuts.
P.S. - Poop :lol:
-
I like wonderboy better.
-
i like wonderboy to no end, as well i do kato-chan ken-chan. both are great game. but kato-chan ken-chan still is one impressive game for its time. when i saw it the first time around eraly '88 in a magazin, i couldn't believe my eyes that this would be real ingame-grafx for a home system.
-
Really? That was one of the first games I rented back in 89 and I thought it had some of worst graphics I'd ever seen. Now Splatterhouse on the other hand, that was an impressive game at the time, I remember thinking how incredibly awesome the graphics were when I rented it.
-
so the impressions back in those time can be different, huh? what i liked on kato-ken was the natural design of the environment. you walked through the game with less "non-repeting" elements as it was mostly common then in other J'n'Rs. there where toilets, woods, parks with bushes and trashcans etc. very nicely and natural arranged. and anything showed up in a very nice color-palette with huge and funny sprites. endeed splatterhouse was an amazing game as well back in the days, but came out almost 2 years later, when the competeting games where grown much more.
-
Yeah, I'm not sure why, but I've always found the graphics in J.J. and Jeff / Kato & Ken Chan to be awesome. They just look and feel fresh to me and some of the sprites have really nice semi-realistic design. Plus they're happy graphics and relaxing to the eye!
-
I agree with kerano
-
Gotta go with GUTS on this one.
I think they have aged badly, too, which doesn't help....
I will give the game one thing though: the sprite size was definitely impressive back in the day.
-
Yeah the sprite size was nice, but I was extremely disappointed with the art and just the general look of the game, it was like an amatuer attempt or something. The art is really bad, and the tiles are all extremely boring and drab, plus the gameplay was just awful. I've been meaning to try and find another copy cheap so I can try it again since I was pretty young when I played it. I remember thinking Alex Kidd on Genesis had really good graphics at the time, so who knows, JJ&Jeff may actually look way better than I remember.
-
Not really.
Don't bother spending any money on it. Download and burn a copy of the Super HuCard to satisfy your thirst. The art is just as bad in 2007 as it was in 1987.
-
you two guys are just unbeliveable :mrgreen:
-
I totally agree with Nat. I played JJ & Jeff just a few weeks ago, and it was just as ugly and horrible as it was when I first bought it sixteen or seventeen years ago.
Anyone who's in the mood for a game along those lines should buy New Adventure Island instead, which is MUCH better and definitely worth the extra dollars.
-
I enjoyed J.J. and Jeff more than New Adventure Island. NAI has better graphics hands down, but I found J.J. and Jeff to be wackier and more entertaining.
-
i don't know exactly what you guys really have eaten, but for a game made in '87 this grafics just kicks big monkey asses!
(http://tenshou01.fc2web.com/game/katoken.png)
(http://homepage2.nifty.com/weva/pcepage/PK_a01.gif)
(http://www.geocities.jp/butazabesu/kato0002.png)
(http://pds.exblog.jp/pds/1/200411/19/29/b0054129_23534152.jpg)
i already mentioned on the page before, what i really like on this game. and i believe, there was almost no game out like this one back in day on a home system. so how you can tell me, this one is crap shit and looks ugly? :lol:
-
I don't really think you can persuade anyone into believing Kato and Ken Chan has good graphics, I think it's just a game that sticks to some people. But you do make a good point about being made in 1987 now that I think about it. Compared to other PCE games at the time, Kato and Ken Chan seemed ahead.
-
But you do make a good point about being made in 1987 now that I think about it. Compared to other PCE games at the time, Kato and Ken Chan seemed ahead.
and compared to any other games released back in that time on any existing home systems, it seemed just one more time a little bit further ahead.
but if i'm honest, i really believe that kk-chan has good grafics, and still have nowadays. may be i'm a very lonely one with that opinion, but regarding to its natural level build-up and nice drawed lively elements i think i'm not that wrong.
-
I'm with you man, you're not alone on this one. Long live kato and ken chan!!!!
-
but if i'm honest, i really believe that kk-chan has good grafics, and still have nowadays. may be i'm a very lonely one with that opinion, but regarding to its natural level build-up and nice drawed lively elements i think i'm not that wrong.
Make no mistake, folks: Tatsujin is simply drowning himself in wrongness. :lol:
-
But you do make a good point about being made in 1987 now that I think about it. Compared to other PCE games at the time, Kato and Ken Chan seemed ahead.
and compared to any other games released back in that time on any existing home systems, it seemed just one more time a little bit further ahead.
but if i'm honest, i really believe that kk-chan has good grafics, and still have nowadays. may be i'm a very lonely one with that opinion, but regarding to its natural level build-up and nice drawed lively elements i think i'm not that wrong.
I agree, but I think Kato and Ken Chan's graphics have a certain charm that can only appeal to some people. People are overlooking the 1987 time frame too, however. Back then, there was practically only NES and SMS and Kato and Ken Chan is certainly a nice step into the next generation graphics I'd say. The game really flourishes in detail compared to, say, Super Mario 3 (which wasn't even out by that time).
-
my words. therefore it was and still is a nice game, also in graphical issues. or, any other games up till kato/ken chan looking awful and piteous as well. that's a pure matter of opinion.
thx turbo D :D
-
your welcome :D
-
For a game from 1987, that looks pretty good. I especailly like that house. I have never seen this game before, it doesn't look like fun. The sprites in particular are awful, but nice backgrounds. :P
-
Well, I'm not going to tell people what they should and shouldn't find appealing. I think JJ and Jeff's graphics are horrible, but if folks see something in those visuals that really registers with them, I think that's great. But I also don't think that saying JJ and Jeff looked good for its time is an indisputable statement.
People apparently love the "huge" characters, but freakin' China Warrior was out at that time. CW is a much better example of a game that was in its own class at the time as far as character size was concerned.
People also say JJ&J represented a significant step forward from 8-bit times. I'd sooner point to Victory Run, which was also out at that time and which demolished 8-bit driving games visually to a much greater extent than JJ&J beat out the NES platformers. (In fact, I think a lot of NES platformers look better than JJ&J.)
And it was, what, three or fourth months later that R-Type hit the PC Engine? Anyone who thinks JJ&J even comes close to R-Type visually is INSANE. After three or four months, JJ&J's graphics were already obsolete.
-
Ugh those screen shots are awful, thanks for saving me the time of playing it again Tatsujin, haha. The character sprites are large, but the backgrounds are so awful and the art is beyond terrible which I think cancels out the large characters. I agree with runin that China Warrior was WAY more impressive at the time, I saw that one on demo at the local electronics store and was blown away (visually at least, after I played it I stuck to just admiring the graphics while playing the NES demo system instead).
-
I was never impressed with KCKC's graphics, but come on now - how can you not like goofy Japanese guys dressed up in weird costumes, farting around, taking a shit in the bush, leak in the trashcan, all while dodging more shit from birds (and not the typical wimpy white-bird-poo, but nice fat, brown-logs)?
-
I was never impressed with KCKC's graphics, but come on now - how can you not like goofy Japanese guys dressed up in weird costumes, farting around, taking a shit in the bush, leak in the trashcan, all while dodging more shit from birds (and not the typical wimpy white-bird-poo, but nice fat, brown-logs)?
I know! It's such an awesome game! People love Wonderboy and Adventure Island, but they could care less about J.J and Ken Chan ( 8) ) when it takes the same idea but throws in all this crazy stuff.
-
I'm quite surprised to read what people are saying about Chan and Chan. I mean, the sprites in that game are clearly better animated and coloured than kung fu/china warrior. I still say that Wonderboy has more frustrating gameplay. And what is this hype about the graphics in R-Type? I don't see anything special there.
-
I'm quite surprised to read what people are saying about Chan and Chan. I mean, the sprites in that game are clearly better animated and coloured than kung fu/china warrior. I still say that Wonderboy has more frustrating gameplay. And what is this hype about the graphics in R-Type? I don't see anything special there.
I was really impressed by the main character sprites of JJ & Jeff back in the day.
I mainly enjoyed the rest of the game just because it was fun, after I figured it out.
-
1. I don't think the graphics in JJ & Jeff are that bad, but the backgrounds are pretty darn sparse and the tiles are repetitive. I felt this way back when I first played it. A little more variety in the stages would have really, really helped this game 's character. Also, some of the sprites were horrible (i.e. the bird!) while others were quite nice. Overall, I like the aesthetics of the game, despite sparse look of the stages.
2. JJ & Jeff = Adventure Island + tweaks to the gameplay. It is immediately apparent that there is a direct connection between Wonderboy1, AA and JJ&Jeff that transcend the general conventions of the platforming genre.
3. I prefer AA / Wonderboy 1 to JJ & Jeff, but that's because I like racing through AA / Wonderboy (in JJ & Jeff, you have to stop and kick stuff, which slows some segments down).
4. Furries make their first appearance on home consoles courtesy of a WB1/AA clone -- how can you not love this?
-
3. I prefer AA / Wonderboy 1 to JJ & Jeff, but that's because I like racing through AA / Wonderboy (in JJ & Jeff, you have to stop and kick stuff, which slows some segments down).
This is a good point, but I've noticed that J.J. & Jeff likes to throw in parts where it's more about the old AA racing racing than puzzle solving, which are really fun to play :D . My favorite being some cloud stage in the game where you have to keep running and making these really high jumps on springs that soars you off the screen. And how can we forget the classic slot-machine and wacky dialog rooms ;) ? Truly a fantastic game.
-
I demand screenshots of the bird.
-
1. I don't think the graphics in JJ & Jeff are that bad, but the backgrounds are pretty darn sparse and the tiles are repetitive. I felt this way back when I first played it. A little more variety in the stages would have really, really helped this game 's character. Also, some of the sprites were horrible (i.e. the bird!) while others were quite nice. Overall, I like the aesthetics of the game, despite sparse look of the stages.
2. JJ & Jeff = Adventure Island + tweaks to the gameplay. It is immediately apparent that there is a direct connection between Wonderboy1, AA and JJ&Jeff that transcend the general conventions of the platforming genre.
3. I prefer AA / Wonderboy 1 to JJ & Jeff, but that's because I like racing through AA / Wonderboy (in JJ & Jeff, you have to stop and kick stuff, which slows some segments down).
4. Furries make their first appearance on home consoles courtesy of a WB1/AA clone -- how can you not love this?
My favorite type of platformer is the kind you can run through nearly non-stop. Kinda like Sonic, except platformery.
I was psyched to give Wonderboy a serious play through once I got the Monster World collection and was disappointed to find that its way more stop 'n go than I remembered and I now believe that JJ&J/K&K is way more racing'ish.
-
I demand screenshots of the bird.
Seriously. IIRC, I have been complaining about the ugly hawk/eagle in Legendary Axe and the ugly bird in JJ&Jeff whenever these games are discussed.
My thesis: It's the work of FEKA. Clearly, whenever they attempted to sabotage a game, they left their mark with a fowl sprite. Pun intended. Sorry.
-
Is this the bird you guys are talking about?
(http://www.superpcenginegrafx.com/img/jjb.gif)
Because it doesn't look bad to me. :?
-
Is this the bird you guys are talking about?
(http://www.superpcenginegrafx.com/img/jjb.gif)
Because it doesn't look bad to me. :?
Black_Tiger, you rock! Yes, that bird is not on par with the style and attention to detail give many of the other sprites. It should have more personality... I don't mind if stalagmites (stalagtites?) in a cave are uneventful, but a bird sprite is an opportunity to work some magic.
The hawk in Legendary Axe is even worse though! Ahhhgggg, that clunky hawk is in LOW RES whereas the rest of the game's sprites are gorgeous.
Clearly, B_T, I have issues! :)
-
haha, I like the bird
-
Me too. No, in fact I love that bird! It was awesome! :D
-
Me too. No, in fact I love that bird! It was awesome! :D
You'll be saying otherwise after it shits on you.
-
My heart is warmed by the fact that you folks like the bird in question. However, I stand by my original assessment: that bird is out-of-place compared to many other sprites. We were cheated! We could have had a mascot-worthy bird!
Black_Tiger, I'm still waiting for the pictures of JJ / Jeff in their furry costumes! Who was the fellow here who got defensive over furries? He should join me in my request! :)
-
My heart is warmed by the fact that you folks like the bird in question. However, I stand by my original assessment: that bird is out-of-place compared to many other sprites. We were cheated! We could have had a mascot-worthy bird!
Black_Tiger, I'm still waiting for the pictures of JJ / Jeff in their furry costumes! Who was the fellow here who got defensive over furries? He should join me in my request! :)
I believe that Kitsunexus is our resident Furry freak.
Anyway, you can both enjoy this-
(http://www.superpcenginegrafx.com/img/jjf.gif)
-
Awesome. Thank you B_T. :D
-
This game looks like fun. Is it expensive (japanese version).
-
This game looks like fun. Is it expensive (japanese version).
Some people on eBay are asking up to $30 for it complete, but its usually available pretty cheap.
-
haha, I like the bird
who doesn't? :D
-
This game looks like fun. Is it expensive (japanese version).
Some people on eBay are asking up to $30 for it complete, but its usually available pretty cheap.
but it's one of the more expensive hudson game here in japan, due to the popularity of kato-chan ken-chan in past decades. but you're not that wrong with $30, since it goes for about 3000~3500yen here usually.
-
I agree with Steve about the bird, it just doesn't have as much detail as other sprites and it looks emotionless compared to the other wacky creatures you meet. :) But after seeing this bird get love on here, I am starting to see the light. It's just a dorky little bird flying around pooping on people.
-
we should open threads for any PCE games, where we can discuss about such small details just like the disputed opinions of this bird. would be funny, wouldn't it?
-
Haha, what the heck? I wish I had noticed this earlier. JJ & Jeff is one of those games that looks like it should be hilariously kitsch (especially the JP version) but it's just HORRIBLE, it plays like a turd, it visually looks like a turd, and it's too crap to even be funny. On top of which, that "hidden key" nonsense is some of the worst game design ever. It just makes a boring game even more monotonous. And it's pretty pathetic when a game that tries to be funny ends up boring.
-
ALSO apparently some people don't understand what chan means.
-
Kato and Ken aren't Chinese brothers, the game is called KATO & KEN not chan and f*cking chan.
-
it's called "Kato Chan - Ken Chan" named after the TV-show of two legendary comedians. "chan" is the usual japanese name-suffix for mr. or ms. in circles of friend/family.
-
Haha, what the f*ck? I wish I had noticed this earlier. JJ & Jeff is one of those games that looks like it should be hilariously kitsch (especially the JP version) but it's just HORRIBLE, it plays like a turd, it visually looks like a turd, and it's too crap to even be funny. On top of which, that "hidden key" shit is some of the worst game design ever. It just makes a boring game even more monotonous. And it's pretty pathetic when a game that tries to be funny ends up boring.
Your avatar is horrible. J.J. and Jeff is one of the best games ever made.
-
Kato and Ken Chan to me has more in common to a Nintendo Mario game.. it can be incredibly fast and frustrating especially timing those jumps and jumping on enemies to knock them out.. I used to own this game years ago but never could get past certain levels because of the pixel perfect jumping required (especially considering when you move or land from a jump you slide a lil' just like mario does when you move the direction to the opposite side.
Anyway... playing this on emulation so you can see for yourself.. sound goes out of sync half way but I can't be bothered to fix it for this lil' vid.
(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a348/kwoksta/th_katachanchan.jpg) (http://s14.photobucket.com/albums/a348/kwoksta/?action=view¤t=katachanchan.flv)