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NEC TG-16/TE/TurboDuo => TG-16/TE/TurboDuo Discussion => Topic started by: KingDrool on August 10, 2004, 06:45:07 AM
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CF2 was the first RPG I ever completed when I was a kid, therefore my memories of the game were pretty sentimental and misty. When I began my mission to rebuild my Turbo collection a few years ago (which wouldn't have been necessary had I not been an idiot several years prior), CF2 was one of the first games I bought.
A couple weeks ago I decided to take a jaunt through the game in order to bring back some of the great memories I have of my brother and I sitting in our family's living room for hours on end in order to finish the game. At first I found the game to be incredibly basic, but fun nonetheless. All the great scenes with Van and Cadette Babette, with the cool Working Designs touch were enjoyable to experience again.
The game was mostly a breeze, up until a certain area in Babette's quest when I realized how cheap the battle system was becoming. I was forced to sit around and level up my characters simply to progress through the next mission; a daunting task as leveling up began to take ages. It didn't help that the battle system required little more than activating a turbo switch on the controller and holding down the 'I' button, checking periodically to make sure your character had enough HP.
Eventually, it became so redundant that I just wanted to get through the game so I could say I did it...again.
I don't really have a point to this long-winded rant. Perhaps other than this: some games are truly great and stand the test of time. Others, while having a special spot in your memory, wind up being obsolete and tedious. CF2 definitely falls into this latter category.
Of course that shower scene is still pretty hot. ;)
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LOL! Yes, gotta love that strategically placed mist :)
CF2 was also one of my favorite RPGs when I was young. I've not played it through again since then, but man, I loved the cut scenes (Babette is still cool!).
As for leveling up, I did the EXACT same thing....turn on the turbo button and just go through the battles...Tedious yes....just like what I did in Ys I & II (or was it IV?) when you go down to the basement of one villiger's house where he has the hole in the wall with monsters coming out. Just hold down the spell button and shoot monsters for hours lvl'ing up.
I was so pissed about Laura though (did she die? Or was she controlled by the bad guy?). WHAT A JIP! Van (and I) spent ALL that time just to not get the girl. Man....I would have gone into depression if I was Van.
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I've tried playing that game 2 or 3 times. I mostly agree with many of the points brought up. If it wasn't for the cut scene the game would probably barely be an average RPG.
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If i remember right,it was voted best RPG of 1992,in EGM,beating Final fantasy 2 on snes.I played through the game,loved it.Felt bad for Van,your right,he got screwed in the end,well,then again,if I remember right he went with Babs to be a space cadet or something didnt he????
Soem of the stuff like having a butter knife for a weapon wa skinda funny,and the coming soon cosmic fantasy3 ad in the game on soem wall.
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If i remember right,it was voted best RPG of 1992,in EGM,beating Final fantasy 2 on snes.I played through the game,loved it.Felt bad for Van,your right,he got screwed in the end,well,then again,if I remember right he went with Babs to be a space cadet or something didnt he????
Soem of the stuff like having a butter knife for a weapon wa skinda funny,and the coming soon cosmic fantasy3 ad in the game on soem wall.
The encounter rate in spots drove me nuts. Stil it's the most professionally domesticated RPG on the Duo (especially compared to Dragon Slayer the only other traditional RPG with voice acting in English). I always remember the computer Robear speaking with a crazy french accent. It was kind of funny but it was intentional... unlike other games.
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Cosmic Fantasy 2 was one of those games that you can't help to think was unfinished. All the promos for it said that your enemies had "great magical powers and can't wait to use them on you", yet no enemy in the game threw even a single Feedus at you. Add some apparently worthless items (Royal Sword, Ball Of Lito, etc) and you wonder just what else was supposed to be added...
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Cosmic Fantasy 2 was one of those games that you can't help to think was unfinished. All the promos for it said that your enemies had "great magical powers and can't wait to use them on you", yet no enemy in the game threw even a single Feedus at you. Add some apparently worthless items (Royal Sword, Ball Of Lito, etc) and you wonder just what else was supposed to be added...
Yeah, i think the CF series was developed by Telenet (or at least published by them)... and many, many of their games seem like they could be more polished. For example, Valis II could have been an awesome platformer, I think, if more time (and creativity) was taken.
I love the Valis series, of course. But other games, like Final Zone II, seem completely rushed / incomplete. FZ II is subpar... it has potential, perhaps, but is totally disappointing (it was one of the first TG-CD games I got... and I could never showcase it to my friends who had Genesis).
What's surprising, to me, is that CF2 still manages to succeed despite all the complaints I have with it. There's just something that makes it seem worthwhile, despite the fact that it could have been so much better.
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What I liked about CF2 so much is the character development, I think that's what others like about the game as well. Van is just plain cool, and Babette is a total babe. :D And who doesn't like talking cats? (Go Pico! hehehe) The dialogue is very interesting and the storyline is solid. Squaresoft could learn a thing or two from these guys about writing seamless storylines...
The only problem I had with the storyline is the introduction of Cobra and Sayo at the end. It makes little sense how they were the ones to go with Van and Babette after Galam. It should have been Annie and Pico. :(
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What I liked about CF2 so much is the character development, I think that's what others like about the game as well.
yes, absolutely. I think we have to give Working Designs some credit here, because they took some liberties (i think) with the original script. I actually don't have any details about the localization of CF2, but I'm sure someone might help us out (dragonmasterdan, we need you).
And Pico kicked a$$. He's still one of my all-time faves. You're right, you can't help but love a talking cat :)
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The gameplay in CF2 is pretty basic, there are only a few songs and they aren't really anything outstanding like Ys, and the ingame graphics aren't so hot. To the typical gamer, that sounds like a shitty game alright, but the story is incredible, the characters had so much personality, and the cinemas absolutely ruled. The game was so ahead of it's time in story, character, and cinema wise and I think this makes up for the poorer aspects of the game. If Telenet put more time on the gameplay, soundtrack, and in-game graphics in CF2, I think it would stand as one of, if not, the greatest RPGs of all time.
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I actually got the chance to interview Victor Ireland from Working Designs a few years back. I talked about Turbo stuff with him and, specifically, Cosmic Fantasy 2. This was back when WD was working on their Arc the Lad compilation for the PSone. Being a fan of Cosmic Fantasy 2, I asked him what the chances were of WD doing a Cosmic Fantasy compilation consisting of all the Cosmic Fantasy games. He said that if the demand were high enough he would definitely consider trying to make it happen.
So...start writing your emails to Working Designs!
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I actually got the chance to interview Victor Ireland from Working Designs a few years back. I talked about Turbo stuff with him and, specifically, Cosmic Fantasy 2. This was back when WD was working on their Arc the Lad compilation for the PSone. Being a fan of Cosmic Fantasy 2, I asked him what the chances were of WD doing a Cosmic Fantasy compilation consisting of all the Cosmic Fantasy games. He said that if the demand were high enough he would definitely consider trying to make it happen.
So...start writing your emails to Working Designs!
As much as I'd like that to happen the series is dead in Japan and someone would need to actually make that collection for it to be released in Japan first for WD to do it. Second and perhaps most importantly WD is not doing that well, Growslanser hasn't been a massive hit and I've heard rumors (though I myself can't substanciate them) that they closed their office in Redding and are operating Working Designs out of Victor Irelands house.
On a side note when you did your interview with Vic (I'm guessing this would have been around E3 2001 or 2000) did he give you one of those neat Arc the Lad watches?
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It was around 2001 or 2002, but I can't remember exactly when. I didn't get a watch, but I did get one of those Arc the Lad books.
That's a shame about WD. I do remember a bunch of people from there getting laid off at one point. I didn't realize things were quite so dire, though. That's too bad.
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Hey that's quite a cool story about how you got to interview Victor Ireland and all. I'd love to see a ocmpilation, but DragonmasterDan (are you really the dragon master!?!?!?) made good points of the problems.
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Here's part of the interview. http://www.teamfremont.com/features/InterviewwithWorkingDesign.shtml
I asked him other stuff too (the stuff I wrote about above) but didn't publish it.
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Here's part of the interview. http://www.teamfremont.com/features/InterviewwithWorkingDesign.shtml
I asked him other stuff too (the stuff I wrote about above) but didn't publish it.
totally fun to read that. i thought WD released some shoot-em-ups for PS1 under some other label.... "twitch inc." or something like that.
so, jlued, any other goodies? :)
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Actually, yeah. If you're into Working Designs' stuff, I did this article around the same time: http://www.gamingworldx.com/features/TheHistoryofWorkingDesigns.shtml
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Actually, yeah. If you're into Working Designs' stuff, I did this article around the same time: http://www.gamingworldx.com/features/TheHistoryofWorkingDesigns.shtml
Heh, I know something like a half dozen former WD employees so the history is pretty much known to me. Neat article though, I'd not seen it.
Added in edit: The other label was called Spaz, they released Raystorm, RayCrisis, Elemental Gearbolt, Thunderforce V, Silhoutte Mirage among others.
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Hey Dan, do you know what the situation is with WD right now? I've been trying to get in contact with someone there, but am having trouble doing so.
Thanks!
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thanks jlued! fun stuff!!!!!!
Added in edit: The other label was called Spaz, they released Raystorm, RayCrisis, Elemental Gearbolt, Thunderforce V, Silhoutte Mirage among others.
yeah, Spaz. I think my own fabrication (Twitch) would have been a better name, though :)
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Hey Dan, do you know what the situation is with WD right now? I've been trying to get in contact with someone there, but am having trouble doing so.
Thanks!
Check your PMs on here.
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Sweet interview!
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Actually, yeah. If you're into Working Designs' stuff, I did this article around the same time: http://www.gamingworldx.com/features/TheHistoryofWorkingDesigns.shtml
Heh, I know something like a half dozen former WD employees so the history is pretty much known to me. Neat article though, I'd not seen it.
Added in edit: The other label was called Spaz, they released Raystorm, RayCrisis, Elemental Gearbolt, Thunderforce V, Silhoutte Mirage among others.
*Drools*
Elemental Gearbolt is one of my absolute favorite games. I have every PSX WD title, except for Raycrisis.
WD's finest games were for that system. There were some great Saturn games as well. I like their Turbo games, but most of them just don't stand out as well as their PSX titles.
By the way: They killed the Spaz label with the PSX. Can't say it matters much though.
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Actually, yeah. If you're into Working Designs' stuff, I did this article around the same time: http://www.gamingworldx.com/features/TheHistoryofWorkingDesigns.shtml
Heh, I know something like a half dozen former WD employees so the history is pretty much known to me. Neat article though, I'd not seen it.
Added in edit: The other label was called Spaz, they released Raystorm, RayCrisis, Elemental Gearbolt, Thunderforce V, Silhoutte Mirage among others.
*Drools*
Elemental Gearbolt is one of my absolute favorite games. I have every PSX WD title, except for Raycrisis.
WD's finest games were for that system. There were some great Saturn games as well. I like their Turbo games, but most of them just don't stand out as well as their PSX titles.
By the way: They killed the Spaz label with the PSX. Can't say it matters much though.
I think their best titles were on Sega CD (The two original better Lunar's and Popful Mail) and Saturn (Dragon Force, Iron Storm, Magic Knight Rayearth), it's all opinion I suppose.
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I agree with DragonDan... In fact, one of the reasons why I have a SegaCD is because of Lunar and Popful Mail. Oh, and Dark Wizard as well. That game is INSANE. I've put 1000's of hours into it. OK, maybe not that much, but CLOSE.
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Working Designs defintely helps the Sega CD and I might possibly say it's their best. I can't say Saturn because I've only played Dragon Force (beat it and thought it was pretty good) and the action-RPG Shining game. They brought out quite a few games (for their standards) for the TG-16 and CD and they were all pretty good, Cosmic Fantasy 2 being my favorite probably. Their 16-bit systems were definitely their best.
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The quality of games like CF2 are examples of bad game design. This title seemed (like most CD games) as more of a tech demo if anything else. Not necessarily a bad game, but not timeless either. Back then it was "wow! look at that! FMV! CD audio! blah blah blah!". You see it today, and it's more like "meh... let's get this over with." NEC and Sega have a lot of titles like that on their past systems. On the opposite side of things you can take a game like Yoshi's Island, and even today it is more than playable. Everything about it is still good looking, and fun to play. It's a timeless game.
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The quality of games like CF2 are examples of bad game design. This title seemed (like most CD games) as more of a tech demo if anything else. Not necessarily a bad game, but not timeless either. Back then it was "wow! look at that! FMV! CD audio! blah blah blah!". You see it today, and it's more like "meh... let's get this over with." NEC and Sega have a lot of titles like that on their past systems. On the opposite side of things you can take a game like Yoshi's Island, and even today it is more than playable. Everything about it is still good looking, and fun to play. It's a timeless game.
Agreed. I've really *tried* to like Cosmic Fantasy 2, but the gameplay has always been unbearable for me. It was a dated and poorly designed RPG even back when it was originally released. The cutscenes were top-notch though, but that doesn't make a game great. I really liked the character designs and the voice acting though.
I've never been able to stomach more than a few hours of the game, but it may pick up after a while. I just find the battles to be way too tedious and the load times to be too long. The music is a mixed bag. Some of it is really tough to stand for long periods of time.
Now, Exile on the other hand. I just played through that game and found it to be lots of fun, even if it is a bit linear and a tad easy.
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If Exile is too easy for you, try its sequel. Just prepare to invest in some Rogaine, because you will be yanking your hair out. :D
I just played through CF2 again, spent 11 hours on it (I know exactly where I'm going at all times in the game so it's much quicker for me than for most). I never liked the combat system...in fact, when I was younger and couldn't sleep, I'd turn on CF2 and play a few battles...they are so boring that it would put me right to sleep. :D Half of that is just in the fact that the game is so stripped down that there's no challenge in it.
The disc was designed very carefully...since they used the 64k system, and had to access a lot of graphics, all the regular music was kept on one track at the start of the disc (track 3 I believe) to reduce seek time by a great deal. The game does a lot of reading from the main data track (track 2) for simple stuff like character portraits and combat enemies. There's only so much you can stuff into 64k but it was a good example of how you can cheat a little. And I do agree that it seemed to be more of a tech demo than anything, just based on these details.
Ironically...I could never get into Yoshi's Island, or most any SNES game for that matter than came from Nintendo themselves. Third-party games sure, but not their in-house stuff.
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The quality of games like CF2 are examples of bad game design. This title seemed (like most CD games) as more of a tech demo if anything else. Not necessarily a bad game, but not timeless either. Back then it was "wow! look at that! FMV! CD audio! blah blah blah!". You see it today, and it's more like "meh... let's get this over with." NEC and Sega have a lot of titles like that on their past systems. On the opposite side of things you can take a game like Yoshi's Island, and even today it is more than playable. Everything about it is still good looking, and fun to play. It's a timeless game.
I don't think it's a bad game for its time, in fact I think its an above average classic style RPG. Most games of that era had a high encounter rate and were very linear. It's not an outstanding title like other RPGs of the 16-bit era such as Lunar the Silver Star, Lunar Eternal Blue, Chrono Trigger, or Final Fantasy III in terms of design. But it's far from bad game design either. It's above average to good for a 1992 domestic release.
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The quality of games like CF2 are examples of bad game design. This title seemed (like most CD games) as more of a tech demo if anything else. Not necessarily a bad game, but not timeless either. Back then it was "wow! look at that! FMV! CD audio! blah blah blah!". You see it today, and it's more like "meh... let's get this over with." NEC and Sega have a lot of titles like that on their past systems. On the opposite side of things you can take a game like Yoshi's Island, and even today it is more than playable. Everything about it is still good looking, and fun to play. It's a timeless game.
I don't think it's a bad game for its time, in fact I think its an above average classic style RPG. Most games of that era had a high encounter rate and were very linear. It's not an outstanding title like other RPGs of the 16-bit era such as Lunar the Silver Star, Lunar Eternal Blue, Chrono Trigger, or Final Fantasy III in terms of design. But it's far from bad game design either. It's above average to good for a 1992 domestic release.
Preach on, brother!
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(http://www.nodtveidt.net/cf2-powerful-van.png)
Would this make it easier? :D
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funny, I enjoyed CF2 but back then RPGs were my favorite....I kept hoping a game would come out and blow me away, intricate, non-linear, puzzles the whole nine yards..n then when I phased into other interests, it started to happen..Zelda Ocarina, the phenomenal Playstation RPGs, and so on...Dragon Warrior VII is sitting gathering dust right now which I would have gobbled up every spare moment back then....(it was my favorite series..though I loved FF too of course..neverplayed FFVII) but maybe I should start playing.
ANYWAY...I have an EGM from 92 or so where one of the reviewers states the CF2 is full o fluff that it is too liitle too late...so even then those snobs thought it outdated, (they were shooter snobs mostly anyway) which it was, having been out overseas sometime before. Why oh why did they not translate FEOE? k...enough for now...steve, haven't forgotten my pledge, I will get those mags out buddy!
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reminds me...are there any dragon warrior/dragon quest fans out there? anyone heard about Dragon Warrior eight and when it'll come out? Square/Enix acts like it doesn't exist these days...how did VII fare in Japan?
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reminds me...are there any dragon warrior/dragon quest fans out there? anyone heard about Dragon Warrior eight and when it'll come out? Square/Enix acts like it doesn't exist these days...how did VII fare in Japan?
Dragon Quest VIII (no more Warrior for the US release aparently) wil be released around Christmas time. VIII is the best selling Japanese Playstation 2 game ever. Dragon Quest VII (since you asked about it) is the best selling PSone title in Japan ever as well. Also SE isn't acting like it doesn't exist, they are just waiting until E3 to announce a firm date. If you talk to their PR people they have been discussing the game's US release since last year.
Why oh why did they not translate FEOE?
TTI planned to release Far East Of Eden/Tengai Makyou II. But as we all know they were massively understaffed and RPGs require a lot more time in localizing than do other genres of games (which for TTI also took a long time to bring over). As a result it simply never got started.
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I don't suppose anybody here knows of a site that translated any of the other CF games, do you?
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reminds me...are there any dragon warrior/dragon quest fans out there? anyone heard about Dragon Warrior eight and when it'll come out? Square/Enix acts like it doesn't exist these days...how did VII fare in Japan?
I used to be. I played all of the NES games back in the day (Dragon Warrior III was my favorite). I also played a bit of the translated SNES games. I really tried to enjoy DQ7, but it felt like the series never really evolved. The mechanics seemed to be quite dated and the game just didn't flow very well (in my opinion). I really had trouble enjoying it after playing more modern games like Xenogears, Skies of Arcadia, and (more recently) Tales of Symphonia. Some of the older RPG franchises (like Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest) don't seem to be particularly innovative these days. I know it's all a matter of opinion though. I know that there are people who still really adore these games. I used to really like Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy, but they just don't do it for me anymore.
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Yeah, it's hard for me to go back to playing old RPGs. I've lost all tolerance for random, turn-based battles. Especially with games that have random battles every two steps. That's where I got frustrated with CF2 when I went back to play it again. It just seems like a way of artificially lengthening the game.
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reminds me...are there any dragon warrior/dragon quest fans out there? anyone heard about Dragon Warrior eight and when it'll come out? Square/Enix acts like it doesn't exist these days...how did VII fare in Japan?
I used to be. I played all of the NES games back in the day (Dragon Warrior III was my favorite). I also played a bit of the translated SNES games. I really tried to enjoy DQ7, but it felt like the series never really evolved. The mechanics seemed to be quite dated and the game just didn't flow very well (in my opinion). I really had trouble enjoying it after playing more modern games like Xenogears, Skies of Arcadia, and (more recently) Tales of Symphonia. Some of the older RPG franchises (like Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest) don't seem to be particularly innovative these days. I know it's all a matter of opinion though. I know that there are people who still really adore these games. I used to really like Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy, but they just don't do it for me anymore.
I still find those older games enjoyable though things like battles and leveling up becomes tedious. My only real complaint with Dragon Warrior VII is the battle system is very unfun and non interactive. The scenerio and design of the game is great and it reminds me a lot of Chrono Trigger (you can tell Horii did this game and Chrono Trigger since they share that same feel).
Also on a side note I quite frankly didn't like Xenogears (just overall poor game design, with boring dungeons, a super linear second disc, long load times, boring battles, high encounter rate, choppy engine, and forces story at you rather than being a game to play) at all and I rate it alongside another Squaresoft PSone game (Chrono Cross) as two of the most overated RPGs in recent memory. I did think Skies of Arcadia was great, I'm also a big fan of the first two Grandia games (Grandia X-treme sucks) so if you haven't played those and like RPGs I highly recommend them.
Anyway, I play a lot of RPGs so I don't have as much of a problem playing older titles as long as they are well designed games. Story and drama don't necessarily make a game great, design does.
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Also on a side note I quite frankly didn't like Xenogears (just overall poor game design, with boring dungeons, a super linear second disc, long load times, boring battles, high encounter rate, choppy engine, and forces story at you rather than being a game to play) at all and I rate it alongside another Squaresoft PSone game (Chrono Cross) as two of the most overated RPGs in recent memory. I did think Skies of Arcadia was great, I'm also a big fan of the first two Grandia games (Grandia X-treme sucks) so if you haven't played those and like RPGs I highly recommend them.
Heh. Chrono Cross was a BIG letdown for me. I got to the end of the game, where you have the dragon plot-twist, and I just stopped playing it. I couldn't stand it anymore.
I agree that there is a lot about Xenogears that could be improved, but something about it really grabbed me. I do agree that disk 2 was absolutely terrible though.
I have Grandia (PSX), which I've played very little of, and Grandia 2 (DC), which I've played to the end. Both seem to be very good games.
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Heh. Chrono Cross was a BIG letdown for me. I got to the end of the game, where you have the dragon plot-twist, and I just stopped playing it. I couldn't stand it anymore.
I agree that there is a lot about Xenogears that could be improved, but something about it really grabbed me. I do agree that disk 2 was absolutely terrible though.
I have Grandia (PSX), which I've played very little of, and Grandia 2 (DC), which I've played to the end. Both seem to be very good games.
Grandia I is a great game, but keep in mind the US dub is quite frankly horrendous. I originally played through the import Saturn version of the game (which has nicer textures and has a bit smoother engine and better PCM music) so obviously that wasn't an issue for me when I played through it. Grandia II is a good game but not as good of a game as Grandia I in my opinion, its shorter, not as well designed and has a far more predictable story. I would recommened playing through Grandia I though, bad dub and all.