PCEngineFans.com - The PC Engine and TurboGrafx-16 Community Forum
NEC TG-16/TE/TurboDuo => TG-16/TE/TurboDuo Sales & Trades => Topic started by: Platinumfungi on June 10, 2009, 10:06:56 AM
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I've been in the slow but steady process of compiling repair/useful information for our poor friend the TG-CD for awhile now. If you have anything you want to add just let me know :D
Here's a chart of all the capacitors in the Turbo Grafx CD Player. I'm in the process of making one for the Docking Station pcbs as well.
(https://www.pcenginefx.com/forums/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=7012.0;attach=2987;image)
Backup: https://.../TGCDCap_Chart2.jpg
Here are some tidbits:
Most common problems:
- CD-Rom gears become damaged. May be missing teeth or jammed. (Replacement gears must be substituted)
- CD-Rom grease dries up. (Regrease with white lithium grease)
- Laser wears out. (Adjust, or a replacement laser is required)
- 2 ribbon cables are in backwards. The CD-Rom will not function properly if they are backwards. (Make sure they're inserted properly)
(http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p266/Rockguard/TG-CD/SmallRibbonCablecloseup.jpg)
- The switch that checks if the disc tray is open is stuck or damaged. (Inspect, clean, ...not sure about a replacement. I guess you could permanently make the switch think it's "always closed")
- The laser "limit switch" metal contacts need to be cleaned. (Read more about this issue here: https://www.pcenginefx.com/forums/index.php?topic=5063.0
- The safety "Lock" switches on the TG docking station are not in the correct position. (Make sure both switches are in the "Lock" position when trying to play or the system will not turn on)
- Dead power supply. (Find replacement)
- Loose AV ports. Have to wiggle the cable around to get it to work. (Open system and resolder all related joints)
- The ground wire that attaches the top and bottom halves of the CD Player isn't securely connected.
(http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p266/Rockguard/TG-CD/CD-PlayerGroundwiretopandbottomhalv.jpg)
Basic parts information:
Laser Lens:
The stock laser is a "KSS-162A".
A replacement that will work but needs some alteration is a "KSS-220A". I believe this is the proper one here at Electronix for $24.30 (plus shipping) -
http://www.electronix.com/catalog/advanced_search_result.php?ELECTRONIX_CATALOG_SESSID=434d9ec5c200e3cfafe87c5dfd25ee43&keywords=KSS-220A&x=0&y=0
Nat started a thread about other electronics that can be used as a donor for the laser. Check out the thread here: https://www.pcenginefx.com/forums/index.php?topic=5027.0
For a quick recap, the following products have been identified as suitable donors:
Sony Discman D-4
Sony Discman D-12
Sony Discman D-34
Power Supply:
TG CD (in docking station) - 11VDC 1.53A center negative plug
TG CD (cd player only) - 10.5VDC 650mA (center negative plug I think...)
(http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p266/Rockguard/TG-CD/CD-PlayerPowerSpecsLabelforweb.jpg)
PCE CD (in docking station) - a suitable replacement is RADIO SHACK part # 273-1771 with Adaptaplug Q
PCE CD (cd player only) - 10.5VDC 650mA (center negative plug I guess...)
Capacitor Information:
I figured I'd start adding this information as well since I've heard mention of caps being a possible suspect (and since it's caps on both the Duo and Express that so frequently cause problems)
In the TGCD CD Player - there are are around 30 electrolytic caps.
In the TGCD Docking Station - there are around 44 electrolytic caps.
I might eventually get around to making a chart for these...but it will be awhile if I do.
CD Player Lid Components:
I've found that on some systems the components in the player's lid that hold a disc in the system can get smashed or damaged, and thus not able to close properly. Here are all the parts:
(http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p266/Rockguard/TG-CD/CD-Playerdisctraycomponents.jpg)
That's what we've got so far!
RG
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I had a post a while back about a limit switch issue that should be included, dont know how to link to that thread???
NEC TG-16/TE/TurboDuo > TG/PCE Repair/Mod Discussion > Another possible TGCD fix for wont spin wont load but laser returns
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Most common problems:
- CD-Rom gears become damaged. May be missing teeth or jammed. (Replacement gears must be substituted)
I made a replacement with a Sony Vaio Laptop Drive, but it's not a full replacement.
- The switch that checks if the disc tray is open is stuck or damaged. (Inspect, clean, ...not sure about a replacement. I guess you could permanently make the switch think it's "always closed")
Should be easy enough to make a new switch. It's just a flexible contact that you could probably make out of spare thin metal. I'll let you know, I have a TGCD coming in that probably has this problem (hopefully thats all).
Power Supply:
PCE CD (in docking station) - ???
PCE CD (cd player only) - ???
PCE CD (IFU) - suitable replacement RADIO SHACK 273-1771 with Adaptaplug Q
PCE CD (CD only) - same as TG16 console power supply
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Updated with your info. Thanks guys :D
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Updated with your info. Thanks guys :D
I didn't actually "grease" the limit switch, I just cleaned the metal contact surfaces inside it and it worked, but maybe it should get a coating of something???
The whole discussion of grease in that thread was about the infamous gear and dried up grease.
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Updated with your info. Thanks guys :D
I didn't actually "grease" the limit switch, I just cleaned the metal contact surfaces inside it and it worked, but maybe it should get a coating of something???
The whole discussion of grease in that thread was about the infamous gear and dried up grease.
Ah, my mistake #-o Corrected. I'm not really sure if it does or not. If it originally did then I'd say yes, but I've never taken one apart myself so I have no clue...
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This thread kicks ass. Thanks a lot Red Ghost! I've been so busy this year that I've been neglecting my Turbo!
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I didn't actually "grease" the limit switch, I just cleaned the metal contact surfaces inside it and it worked, but maybe it should get a coating of something???
The whole discussion of grease in that thread was about the infamous gear and dried up grease.
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Ah, my mistake #-o Corrected. I'm not really sure if it does or not. If it originally did then I'd say yes, but I've never taken one apart myself so I have no clue...
[/quote]
It didn't originally have any grease inside, just bare metal contacts.
Surely there is a better option than wd-40 for keeping them from corroding though. Dielectric grease?
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kid_rondeau - Any time :D I know I'm not the only one cussing at these things... I'll see if I can take some nice macro shots of some of this stuff in the near future and start building upon what we have so far.
akaviolence - Dielectric grease is what I always use in switches I rebuild in general, so I'd say sure. I should really open one myself though and have a look around. One of these days.
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Had a few minutes so I added a handful of photos. More to come...
Please note I have to double check which way the ribbon cables are in the photos. They're old pictures and might be wrong. I'll label which way the correct way is eventually.
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Don't forget about Nat's great thread with the Sony Discmans that have the same laser unit:
https://www.pcenginefx.com/forums/index.php?topic=5027.0
Sony Discman D-4
Sony Discman D-12
Sony Discman D-34
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Don't forget about Nat's great thread with the Sony Discmans that have the same laser unit:
https://www.pcenginefx.com/forums/index.php?topic=5027.0
Sony Discman D-4
Sony Discman D-12
Sony Discman D-34
Added, thanks! (I'll ask Nat about adding the photos of those 3 drives here for quick reference as well.)
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Just added a TGCD cap replacement chart to the pile. Will add some for the docking station in the near future :-"
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Very nice chart and info. Thanks. :)
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Fantastic chart. I love you.
Oh, and this thread should be made a sticky.
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My apologies if someone already brought this up, but I found a site that details how to mold your own gears with what appears to be relatively little effort...
http://marshallbrain.blogspot.com/2006/05/casting-your-own-plastic-gears.html
His situation seems to be very similar to ours.
http://www.hobbycast.net/video.htm
The second video shows in detail how it works. Looks like it could be the solution! The prices look alright, but I haven't really investigated too thoroughly...back to work!
If no one gets to this before I do (could be QUITE a while), I am willing to temporarily extract one of the "as of yet undamaged" gears from one of my TG-CD's to make such a mold.
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It might be ok if one of us were to take the plunge and sell the resulting pieces... but for one person to do it for one gear...
HobbyCast 110 w/ Mixing kit HobbyCast 110 w/ Mixing kit
055502/054010 - 2 lb Kit w/ 16 oz mixing kit
$27.95
HobbyMold 160 w/ Mixing kit HobbyMold 160 w/ Mixing kit
055232/054010 - 2.2 lb Kit w/ 16 oz mixing kit
$43.25
TOTAL WEIGHT: 8.00 lb
TOTAL SHIPPING: 11.36
SUBTOTAL: 71.20
DISCOUNT: - 0.00
TAX RATE: 0%
TOTAL TAX: 0.00
GRAND TOTAL: 82.56
That's one spendy gear when the entire apparatus (incl new laser) can be had for ~$45 elsewhere on the net.
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Kattare,
admittedly, not an outwardly cheap way to acquire the offending gear, but it really is an investment. I don't know of anyone who has conclusively found an exact match in any other device, and the KSS-162a and 220a (completes) don't have the same gearing that the TG-CD has. The gearing seems to be unique to this device, and one of the gears seems to have been made from a defective plastic.
I can understand if no one sees any pressing need to take this task on right now...and the only reason I'm not is due to financial and time restrictions. But that won't always be the case (knock on wood), and someday I will shell out the $80 or so to be able to make my own gears. My intention is, after a successful run, I will sell them to forum members for a reasonable price. But that's putting the cart before the horse. I just want to attack this common TG-CD problem and make it a thing of the past.
I would consider it a great honor to have such a large role in keeping the systems alive.
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That's true... I have a unit here with a broken gear as well. The gear is all yellowed and the gear tooth broke in my hands when I was just trying to turn it to lubricate it... heh. depressing. If someone were able to make a mold, that'd be a one-time cost.
In the meantime, I've been working with a KSS-220A apparatus. So far I've had some luck dropping in the entire apparatus as a replacement. Obviously it doesn't fit in the case, but that's my only hangup. I already got it to play music with the lid off, so I don't think there are any compatibility issues.
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That's true... I have a unit here with a broken gear as well. The gear is all yellowed and the gear tooth broke in my hands when I was just trying to turn it to lubricate it... heh. depressing. If someone were able to make a mold, that'd be a one-time cost.
In the meantime, I've been working with a KSS-220A apparatus. So far I've had some luck dropping in the entire apparatus as a replacement. Obviously it doesn't fit in the case, but that's my only hangup. I already got it to play music with the lid off, so I don't think there are any compatibility issues.
You could always get yourself a NEC-35D or D35? whichever one it is...lol
Heres the link - http://www.computertradeexchange.com/inventory/NECB.html
I ordered one of them from these guys, they have great customer service and shipped really fast and packaged well! Everything in the CD-Drive you get can be used EXCEPT the PCB, its not made compatible for a Duo, although its all the same shape and stuff on the inside, Im sure its a matter of the chips are different on the Board between the two.
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Override, I've looked at those before. I didn't want to take the chance that they were manufactured at the same time and thus have the same gear issue.
I'm starting to lean toward the molding gear. I successfully dropped an entire kss-220a apparatus into a TG-CD that I just got it from fullnelson the other day. I had to:
- move 5 caps
- remove the line out jack
- remove the external power jack (yup, it'll never work stand-alone again... big whoop.)
- cut/dremmel/file the crap out of the chassis
- cut/dremmel/file the crap out of the kss-220a
- reverse the leads to the tracking motor
All that is cool and whatnot, but it took freakin' 6 hours... 6 hrs I'm willing to do once, but not 2 more times. (2x jap briefcase units I need to repair)
Final product works great... unreliably reads CD-R's... probably some tweaking of the pots would get that going, but it's reliable with regular games so I'm gonna leave it be.
Maybe the second time won't take so long I guess... and the kss-220a is only $30.
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Wow,
All things considered, that's pretty cool, Kattare!
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The Sony Discman D-33 also uses a kss-220a
It looks just like the D-34
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Override, I've looked at those before. I didn't want to take the chance that they were manufactured at the same time and thus have the same gear issue.
Maybe the second time won't take so long I guess... and the kss-220a is only $30.
Personally I think the extra $15 you would spend on getting the NEC drive, would be worth it! Thats minus probably 5 hours of work, its straight pull out and drop in, and the guys that run that business have GREAT customer service, if you got a drive that had issues with the gears etc. they most likely would refund you every penny or simply swap you drives! Im sure another reason as to why they are charging $45 is cause it also comes with the CD power supply and the CD Interface that allows it to hoook up to the PC. You may get away with it cheaper if you were to ask them for the CD portion only.
All that said, Im glad to hear and see that you got it working! Im sure the pots need a little tweak such as the duo's do with the new hop-m3's...
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Were you able to look at the suspect gear on that unit you had and verify that it was not yellowed with age? If not, it may be worth a shot. It just makes me nervous I guess... So much $$ for one little gear. heh.
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Override, I've looked at those before. I didn't want to take the chance that they were manufactured at the same time and thus have the same gear issue.
I'm starting to lean toward the molding gear. I successfully dropped an entire kss-220a apparatus into a TG-CD that I just got it from fullnelson the other day. I had to:
- move 5 caps
- remove the line out jack
- remove the external power jack (yup, it'll never work stand-alone again... big whoop.)
- cut/dremmel/file the crap out of the chassis
- cut/dremmel/file the crap out of the kss-220a
- reverse the leads to the tracking motor
All that is cool and whatnot, but it took freakin' 6 hours... 6 hrs I'm willing to do once, but not 2 more times. (2x jap briefcase units I need to repair)
Final product works great... unreliably reads CD-R's... probably some tweaking of the pots would get that going, but it's reliable with regular games so I'm gonna leave it be.
Maybe the second time won't take so long I guess... and the kss-220a is only $30.
I'll tell you one thing: I'm definitely gonna drop a KSS-220A into my TurboGrafx CD once its gear disintegrates. It may look REALLY ugly, but I'd take a working TurboGrafx CD that looks like crap than a good-looking TurboGrafx CD that can only serve as a paperweight any day. And it sure beats the crap out of paying upwards of $80 just to mold a single gear.
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Bump, this thread needs a sticky too, as we are starting to see issues with the caps on these units also.
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There is a dude on ebay with a gear replacement solution. I had mine repaired by him a couple months ago for $55 and it works great. Just saying if you are going to spend anywhere from $25-$45 for a donor drive you might as well pay someone else to do the work for not much more.
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There has been some speculation as to where that ebay guy got his repair info. He was on here "chris computers" and when asked about how he figured out the two gear solution (a solution in development by chop5 for quite some time now) he clammed up. Then when we nicely asked for his source of gears in order to help everyone afflicted by this problem, he would not say. I think he knew that he was using the free repair info from this site in order to profit for himself. He left here not long afterwards (though some of us think he may still be lurking around because we DO get some great repair information here)
Bottom line... if you're totally desperate, use that guy. Personally I think he's taking advantage of the tech crew here and using free information to take advantage of everyday gamers. He's profiting for himself and not contributing anything back to the community from which he's stealing the repair information. I tend to fix stuff for little or nothing because I'm more concerned with helping out the community than making personal profit. This chris computers guy seems more interested in money than anything.
I am very close to perfecting the belt drive replacement system for these units. So far its proving to be quiet, reliable and dirt cheap! And when you get something fixed by me, I'm here if there are problems. I'm on the side of the gamer, not on the side of making money. I can only ask a little more patience as I'm nearly done developing this solution. It will cost less than $10 to implement... a far cry from the $55 gouge that guy is charging.
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Well that's good news. Maybe if I have a broken drive in the future ill consider sending it to you for repair then.
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Just did a 10 second search and found him. He's "cheapnicecomputers" on eBay for anyone who's interested...
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I have had great results and excellent communication from Chris at cheapnicecomputers. If you can transcend all the bull***t and drama and speculation about his methods and motives, you'll discover a fast, solid repair at a reasonable* price.
*for some, nothing more than like $20 shipped would be considered reasonable. These people will never be happy.
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I think the frustration with chris computers comes from the fact that he was on here and utilizing the information we all freely share but then when asked about his source of gears he would not say. That's my rub with him. Maybe he does great work, maybe im a commy, but Id rather work together and share repair ideas rather than keep an idea to myself for the sake of making a little bit of money. That's my take on it. Im sure chris is a great guy I just wish he'd share what he knows.
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I think the frustration with chris computers comes from the fact that he was on here and utilizing the information we all freely share but then when asked about his source of gears he would not say. That's my rub with him. Maybe he does great work, maybe im a commy, but Id rather work together and share repair ideas rather than keep an idea to myself for the sake of making a little bit of money. That's my take on it. Im sure chris is a great guy I just wish he'd share what he knows.
Exactly. Keeping silent on a potential source for parts, simply for selfish profit, is the surest way to poison the feeling of "community" and upset folks. Even if chris did NOT have a source for parts, he should be in an open, transparent dialogue with everyone here, since we (well, most of us) try to help each other. Otherwise, he comes across as an opportunist who exploits situations, which, ultimately, may or may not be true.
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Hey guys, I just found this place http://www.pollin.de/shop/index.html with a much better price on the KSS-220A lens. I just ordered a couple and I'll let you know how they are when I get them. One drawback is I have to pay via COD since they won't take my banking info or a credit card.
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Did they arrive? Does it work? ;-)
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I haven't heard anything from the company or received anything yet. Maybe they don't deliver to the US? At least they could have told me. I got a confirmation receipt and everything.
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That bites. I was gettin my hopes up. ;-)
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Okay guys, I have a weird question that I hope someone can help me with. I was doing some routine maintenance on my turbografx cd drive today. Just checking the lube in the gears, checking tape that holds ribbons etc... and I found a couple solder points on my motherboard that have holes in them. Looks like a capacitor should go there however the drive works just fine the way it is. According to your chart the motherboard is missing a 100uf 16V capacitor. I went ahead and soldered one in and I notice no difference at all in the way the drive runs. Just nice to know it is set up correctly now. Any idea why my drive worked fine without it? I circled the marks in red in the pic below where the cap was missing from. (http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/7637/cimg6045.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/233/cimg6045.jpg/)
I had bought this from someone locally about a year ago and have been using the drive with that capacitor missing this entire time. Makes me wish I had opened it up sooner.
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I'd guess it's a filter that isn't strictly necessary...
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C300 is in parallel with C301. They are the input voltage filter caps.
The fact that you run well without that cap only means that the other caps on that same circuit have picked up the slack....but also that they are working harder, which means premature failure. Of course, you know that the caps are prone to that anyway, so no news there. Also, when you use the CD with the TG16 interface, the caps and power supply in the interface are helping to support proper operation.
Charlie
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Sticky Please. :D
Great Job RedGhost!
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Sticky Please. :D
Great Job RedGhost!
Thanks! I've actually requested that this, and some other excellent topics that others have made, become sticky...but haven't gotten any response :( Maybe we just need to message directly ... RG goes to send Aaron a message :mrgreen:
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Made sticky - thanks for the info RG!
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I have a PC Engine CD-ROM2, the problem I have with it that when I am in a game after about 5mins or so the sound cuts off completely and does not come back. I have tried orginal games and copies with the same result, would a total cap replacement solve this issue?
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Sounds more like the laser needs to be adjusted/replaced. You can test it by starting a game and lightly tapping the side. If it loses the audio, then most likely reason is the laser is unable to focus and find its place on the disc. There are some pots on the CD unit that can help if the laser is still good (I think tracking pot), but could be a sign of a laser on its way out.
I have a PC Engine CD-ROM2, the problem I have with it that when I am in a game after about 5mins or so the sound cuts off completely and does not come back. I have tried orginal games and copies with the same result, would a total cap replacement solve this issue?
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I tried tapping the side and it lost audio straight away, I only touched it slightly, what are these tracking pots you talk about.
Thanks for the info.
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I can't find the post about the turbo cd, but take a look at this one about the duo.
https://www.pcenginefx.com/forums/index.php?topic=3586.msg118622#msg118622
There are 4 pots on the turbo cd when you open it, next to the ~1" ribbon connector. I believe you want to try to adjust v102-104. Mark them so you know where your starting point was. They only need slight turns to make an adjustment. I don't think there is a real guide on how to adjust them properly, atleast not one I know of.
I tried tapping the side and it lost audio straight away, I only touched it slightly, what are these tracking pots you talk about.
Thanks for the info.
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Start with VR102 and VR104 if your cd isnt spinning at all or not reading well, then move on to VR101 and VR103 until its reading good... do VR105 last if later tracks in a CD have trouble but early tracks dont.
As BlackandBlue said. Note down the positions of the pots before you start so you can get back to baseline.
You can run the CDROM2 with a genesis power supply and headphones with the bottom shell off so you can access the pots.
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the TG16 supply works well as well
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can I use a standard polarized caps in place of the bipolar 10uf "c206 c205" ?
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can I use a standard polarized caps in place of the bipolar 10uf "c206 c205" ?
No, you need to replace it with another bipolar cap.
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mg You can make a bipolar cap by using two polarized caps in series, but it will be half in value, so to make a 10uF you need two 20uF, put them plus to plus or minus to minus and they will become bipolar.
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- CD-Rom grease dries up. (Regrease with white lithium grease)
Another good info/repair thread by Red Ghost I just noticed. The info about regreasing with white lithium grease was here all along, though it's lacking in specifics so I might as well add a link with more details and where it solved a user's problem, mine too with my Turbo Duo.
To do this proper, I recommend removing the driving motor (you can then hold it vertically and drop motor oil in it). It has two precision screws that are glued tight so it might be hard to break said screws free, but if you can do that and lift out the motor -- thereby removing that swirly sprocket from the rest of the circular sprockets/gears -- the laser unit will then be free to easily slide back'n'forth on its poles all the way with no problem. This will allow you to effectively/easily clean off the old grease and apply/spread the new, fresh grease (white lithium, as recommended). Being able to move the laser unit back'n'forth will help make sure plenty of new grease gets inside the plastic tubing that it slides on.
So what does this solve ?? It solves the problem of an audio track cutting out (AKA skipping). When a read failure occurs of the subcode data on an audio sector, the laser unit does not skip on to the next readable sector, it just ceases to read any more audio sectors, so the music simply stops, the game continues on and only when you trigger another loading of a track (for example, you exit a town, or you advance to the next stage in the game and it's time for the background music to change), then and only then will the music resume, until the next read failure of course.
This simple problem, 20 year-old dried-up grease, can mislead people into thinking that the whole laser unit itself is dying and needs to be replaced or that certain potentiometers related to it might need to be adjusted... You might even blame the use of a CD-R as I momentarily did before testing factory pressed NEC and music CDs only for the problem to continue to manifest itself. Point is, don't rush to judge the problem as being more severe than what it might actually be!! This is a cheap and helpful solution that most can do themselves rather than shipping (which can cause further damage) a CD-based system off to somebody else!
mg You can make a bipolar cap by using two polarized caps in series, but it will be half in value, so to make a 10uF you need two 20uF, put them plus to plus or minus to minus and they will become bipolar.
I know that connecting capacitors in parallel or in series is to affect capacitance value, which will either double it or divide it, but I had not heard this... You can order non-polarized (AKA bipolar) ceramic caps (meant for AC circuits) at 10 uF just fine and they'll likely be pretty accurate as far as their stated value (the 10uF caps I bought from Digikey were about 9.5 uF when measured with my DMM, but the 100 uF caps were way too low, like 60-70 uF - ceramic caps tend to be a lot lower than the stated value I noticed, so just FYI).
As to why NEC intentionally used 2 non-polarized [ceramic] capacitors there, it could be that there was DC to AC conversion for something, but most likely power inversion producing higher voltages and that ceramic caps handle "ripple" well (refer to steve's post for details). Other than that, I dunno, but yeah, I'd replace them with the same type unless someone like thesteve could explain more...
EDIT: I guess this idea is somehow safe to do:
http://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/21928/can-you-make-a-non-polar-electrolytic-capacitor-out-of-two-regular-electrolytic
If two, same-value, aluminum electrolytic capacitors are connected in series, back-to-back with the positive terminals or the negative terminals connected, the resulting single capacitor is a non-polar capacitor with half the capacitance.
The two capacitors rectify the applied voltage and act as if they had been bypassed by diodes.
When voltage is applied, the correct-polarity capacitor gets the full voltage.
In non-polar aluminum electrolytic capacitors and motor-start aluminum electrolytic capacitors a second anode foil substitutes for the cathode foil to achieve a non-polar capacitor in a single case.
Not sure I trust this idea all the same. Steve ?? Well, I found at least one negative consequence: the Equivalent Series Resistance (ESR) of the paired capacitors in series will be doubled (note: aluminum electrolytic caps have higher ESR ratings than other types), so that's not good... Anyhow, he does appear to be correct, you could do this with 2 capacitors that are twice the value of what you want. If you solder the (+) leads of both capacitors together, then the two other (-) leads, when connected to the PCB, would behave as a non-polarized cap...
I would agree with what somebody said at that linked website above:In general, this sort of trick should be considered a last resort. Since bipolar capacitors are usually needed for signals, it can often be arranged to require a lower bipolar capacitance. Multi-layer ceramic caps have advanced significantly in the last decade. If you can make do with 10 uF instead of 100s of uF, a ceramic can can probably do the job.
OK, and this is from Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitor#Networks):Series connection is also sometimes used to adapt polarized electrolytic capacitors for bipolar AC use. Two polarized electrolytic capacitors are connected back to back to form a bipolar capacitor with half the capacitance.[citation needed] The anode film can only withstand a small reverse voltage however.[18] This arrangement can lead to premature failure as the anode film is broken down during the reverse-conduction phase and partially rebuilt during the forward phase.
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Yeah it's an old capacitor trick used for audio back in the day, SMD/SMT today are made out of ceramic and porcelain inside, and what usually sounds best is polypropylene and a few other plastics (different plastics combined is actually best) but plastic was not invented until the 60's so then there was only paper in oil and other electrolytic capacitors, and heres the why, when plastic capacitors were discovered they were high in price and and relatively low in value, and here's the real deal, audio is AC, the signal goes up (plus), threw zero, and down on the minus, and then it had to be non polarized otherwise only half the sinewave would come threw, well in theory... as it will try to come threw on the other half but deformed creating huge amounts of distortion, so thats why this was pretty common back in the day, it was just impossible to find a ceramic/plastic 100uF capacitors for line filters in loudspeakers... nearly all old loudspeakers had bipolar electrolytic caps, the danish capacitors company Jensen was enormously famous for them, but sounded like crap compared to when plastics came around.
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Should also note that don't trust your DMMs to death, there are several ways of measuring capacitors depending of what they are for and their specs, they send out a voltage for testing and some use high or low voltage, it also sends it out on different frequencies, standard is 1Khz, expensive capacitor meters have tons of different settings, sometimes even expensive testing equipment show the wrong value even if the components value it's actually spot on, it's a whole world of know how just to know how to measure components correctly.
It's as confusing as for trying to explain to non electrical people that electrical outlets just gives 110v at 60hz, and that it gives other voltages at other frequencies (yes not intended), a little voltage at every half or double the frequency, or triple for that matter, and that bad sinus deformed voltages can be found all over the spectra, it could contain a gazillion voltage with 1mA at 1Ghz, yeah line filters are needed.
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Yeah, it's definitely an interesting trick, I didn't know anything about it. At first I didn't believe it. As for my DMM, I'm very happy with the VC99. The 4 ceramic 100 uF capacitors that I bought which failed to operate properly were measured at ~60 uF, so there was definitely a problem with them (the actual device no longer functioned properly). A waste of good money at DigiKey and I had to go back to electrolytic anyway... The 10 uF ones measured at ~9.X uF, so I kept using those, but I definitely lost some trust with high value ceramics. I will always make sure to measure a capacitor before using it to see how close it is to the stated value. I wasted a few hours trying to figure out the problem with those bad ceramics, so I prefer not to go through something like that again if possible.
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just got done recapping my pc engine cd rom, and wanted to make a note that I had (5) 4.7uf 16v caps, instead of the 25v listed.
might help someone thats replacing them and thinking they have to find 25v caps.
thanks Red Ghost "for this cap guide" and chop5 "for what pots need adjustment" almost thought i had a dead laser, but end up being dead caps.
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16 V is OK/safe. The circuit board generally operates at ~5 Volts DC after the power regulator, so capacitors that are rated 10 V or above are safe. But the bigger they are, the better they are: they last longer, handle "ripple" better and sometimes there is power inverting going on so they need to be of higher voltage in that area of the board. This comes at the expense of size and $$$: a 25 V cap is physically bigger and more expensive than a 16 V cap, etc. Anyhow, I was confused about this as well when I got started, but there ya go. When replacing a capacitor, you simply need to match the capacitance value exactly, but the max breakdown voltage can be equal or higher (and higher/bigger is better/safer).
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16 V is OK/safe. The circuit board generally operates at ~5 Volts DC after the power regulator, so capacitors that are rated 10 V or above are safe. But the bigger they are, the better they are: they last longer, handle "ripple" better and sometimes there is power inverting going on so they need to be of higher voltage in that area of the board. This comes at the expense of size and $$$: a 25 V cap is physically bigger and more expensive than a 16 V cap, etc. Anyhow, I was confused about this as well when I got started, but there ya go. When replacing a capacitor, you simply need to match the capacitance value exactly, but the max breakdown voltage can be equal or higher (and higher/bigger is better/safer).
yeah i understand that higher voltage caps can be used, but was just putting out there that mine were 16v and you dont have to use big ol' 25v;p but thanx for putting up some good info!
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Believe it or not, my TG16 CD drive came stock with a KSS-220A. I was completely expecting it to contain a 162A, since this seems to be the norm. Has anyone else observed this?
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Yes, a good deal of slightly newer drives have 220A in them. Unfortunately, for some reason I have encountered more bad 220A lenses over the years than older the style 162a lens.
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Yes, a good deal of slightly newer drives have 220A in them. Unfortunately, for some reason I have encountered more bad 220A lenses over the years than older the style 162a lens.
I've got a few spare Discmans with lasers of both types, so hopefully that is at least some insurance for the future. :D
My 220A-based drive was in beautiful shape when I opened it up. A little bit of white grease and now it sounds / runs like new.
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Thanks for this Platinumfungi. It helped alot when I replaced the caps in my CD player, but now I think my CD Dock might need new caps as well.
Is there a guide that shows how to open up the CD Dock to even get to the PCBs?
It only has like 2 screws, then a bunch of weird fasteners that I'm not sure what to do with, and 2 tabs on the side of the CD mounting part that don't really want to let go. I'm afraid to force it because I don't want to break anything.
Anybody disassemble the CD Dock before?
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There are 3 4.5mm security screws you need to remove just under where the CD drive goes. Also, unscrew the two philips screws near by. All the front screws can be left alone under where the TG16 itself sits. After removing the screws simply pry slightly on the two tabs you mentioned to release the base.
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wondering if any one has a kss-220a assembly im looking for all of if i got a bad laser and a droped spindle motor looking to replace both and use the newer style spindle motor cd clamp vs the old magnetic one
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you should be able to find the KSS-225A which also works
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I've been in the slow but steady process of compiling repair/useful information for our poor friend the TG-CD for awhile now. If you have anything you want to add just let me know :D
Here's a chart of all the capacitors in the Turbo Grafx CD Player. I'm in the process of making one for the Docking Station pcbs as well.
(http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p266/Rockguard/TG-CD/TGCDCapChart2.jpg)
Here are some tidbits:
Most common problems:
- CD-Rom gears become damaged. May be missing teeth or jammed. (Replacement gears must be substituted)
- CD-Rom grease dries up. (Regrease with white lithium grease)
- Laser wears out. (Adjust, or a replacement laser is required)
- 2 ribbon cables are in backwards. The CD-Rom will not function properly if they are backwards. (Make sure they're inserted properly)
(http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p266/Rockguard/TG-CD/SmallRibbonCablecloseup.jpg)
- The switch that checks if the disc tray is open is stuck or damaged. (Inspect, clean, ...not sure about a replacement. I guess you could permanently make the switch think it's "always closed")
- The laser "limit switch" metal contacts need to be cleaned. (Read more about this issue here: https://www.pcenginefx.com/forums/index.php?topic=5063.0
- The safety "Lock" switches on the TG docking station are not in the correct position. (Make sure both switches are in the "Lock" position when trying to play or the system will not turn on)
- Dead power supply. (Find replacement)
- Loose AV ports. Have to wiggle the cable around to get it to work. (Open system and resolder all related joints)
- The ground wire that attaches the top and bottom halves of the CD Player isn't securely connected.
(http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p266/Rockguard/TG-CD/CD-PlayerGroundwiretopandbottomhalv.jpg)
Basic parts information:
Laser Lens:
The stock laser is a "KSS-162A".
A replacement that will work but needs some alteration is a "KSS-220A". I believe this is the proper one here at Electronix for $24.30 (plus shipping) -
http://www.electronix.com/catalog/advanced_search_result.php?ELECTRONIX_CATALOG_SESSID=434d9ec5c200e3cfafe87c5dfd25ee43&keywords=KSS-220A&x=0&y=0
Nat started a thread about other electronics that can be used as a donor for the laser. Check out the thread here: https://www.pcenginefx.com/forums/index.php?topic=5027.0
For a quick recap, the following products have been identified as suitable donors:
Sony Discman D-4
Sony Discman D-12
Sony Discman D-34
Power Supply:
TG CD (in docking station) - 11VDC 1.53A center negative plug
TG CD (cd player only) - 10.5VDC 650mA (center negative plug I think...)
(http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p266/Rockguard/TG-CD/CD-PlayerPowerSpecsLabelforweb.jpg)
PCE CD (in docking station) - a suitable replacement is RADIO SHACK part # 273-1771 with Adaptaplug Q
PCE CD (cd player only) - 10.5VDC 650mA (center negative plug I guess...)
Capacitor Information:
I figured I'd start adding this information as well since I've heard mention of caps being a possible suspect (and since it's caps on both the Duo and Express that so frequently cause problems)
In the TGCD CD Player - there are are around 30 electrolytic caps.
In the TGCD Docking Station - there are around 44 electrolytic caps.
I might eventually get around to making a chart for these...but it will be awhile if I do.
CD Player Lid Components:
I've found that on some systems the components in the player's lid that hold a disc in the system can get smashed or damaged, and thus not able to close properly. Here are all the parts:
(http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p266/Rockguard/TG-CD/CD-Playerdisctraycomponents.jpg)
That's what we've got so far!
RG
Just wanting to check this for the CD-rom2 as well, the Japaneses version ?
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Only difference I know of is that the Japanese unit doesn't have a ground wire to the bottom shell piece
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Only difference I know of is that the Japanese unit doesn't have a ground wire to the bottom shell piece
Also Japanese version doesn't come in black :p
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(https://s1.postimg.cc/7s48o3r833/TGCDCap_Chart2.jpg)