Title: Re: LUNAR The Silver Star PCE Project
Post by: Arkhan on September 15, 2010, 07:52:05 AM
I think it could be done. The cutscenes wouldn't even be hard to implement because the ones from the Silver Star were kind of crapass for the most part.
Alot of times it was a static image that maybe moved its mouth, with the text window still -_- lol.
Title: Re: LUNAR The Silver Star PCE Project
Post by: Arm on September 15, 2010, 08:38:50 AM
I think the cutscenes would be the easiest part. With better colors and some details corrected or redrawn or 1 or 2 additional cuts for specific cutscene). What would be more complicated is recreating the maps without reference (btw, I sent you a map via pm) and also to program a game engine and battle engine (I don't have any clue when it comes to program and coding)
So, I guess ripping the graphics from the iso would be a good idea. I've also heard that graphics could also be ripped from brm file (save state) I know that fusion has uncompressed save states which can contain data.
To my knowledge, there doesn't exist a Mega CD emu that allows you to disable layers (only megadrive games). If I really had to, I can do screen captures of the town ingame and copy and paste in photoshop to reassemble the map. The towns in this game aren't very big. But I assume that I would also have to convert the screenshots I create in pce color format before recreating the maps in mapwin.
Title: Re: LUNAR The Silver Star PCE Project
Post by: Arkhan on September 15, 2010, 09:04:23 AM
I could just play the game and remake each map as I get to it, :D
I have an old strategy guide somewhere too! Might help.
Title: Re: LUNAR The Silver Star PCE Project
Post by: Keranu on September 15, 2010, 09:10:00 AM
Sounds fun! Never thought of the idea of porting Lunar to PCE. It would be great to see the colors get the face lift they deserved since the dithering was pretty yuck.
Title: Re: LUNAR The Silver Star PCE Project
Post by: Arkhan on September 15, 2010, 09:13:41 AM
Sounds fun! Never thought of the idea of porting Lunar to PCE. It would be great to see the colors get the face lift they deserved since the dithering was pretty yuck.
hey man that dithering was charming. dont diss on the dithering.
:)
I always did wonder why it never went to PCE. It would've done awesome there.
Title: Re: LUNAR The Silver Star PCE Project
Post by: Arm on September 15, 2010, 09:15:33 AM
Yes, I remember the orange guide :) I also have a japanese guide which is rarer. It was published in Japan in 92 and contains color maps from the game.
"I could just play the game and remake each map as I get to it" I can send the emu or the image file if you need them
"Sounds fun! Never thought of the idea of porting Lunar to PCE. It would be great to see the colors get the face lift they deserved since the dithering was pretty yuck."
I think it would give a nice result with a good selection of colors and good use of dithering. Here's another example I had made changing some elements and creating others:
Title: Re: LUNAR The Silver Star PCE Project
Post by: lord_cack on September 15, 2010, 11:23:39 AM
Don't get me wrong, I always love the enthusiasm people get when they talk about ports to the PCE. Especially when its those older titles for the NES/SMS or older. But, I always wonder why the time isn't spent creating something new and interesting. Even if its using some of the similar ideas from the game your trying to Port.... in this case we would say an epic RPG. A nice example of this is what Arkhan is doing with the classic arcade games. Using them as the basis to release something unigue in appearance and even in some small examples unique, in someway, mechanically. Like the nice new touches to "Pac-Man" title Pyramid Plunder.... the map and large, varied playfields etc.....
Title: Re: LUNAR The Silver Star PCE Project
Post by: Arm on September 15, 2010, 11:53:39 AM
I see what you mean. But creating something from the ground means even more work/time spent as you have to write a story, write music, etc... And I wouldn't be capable of doing that. I'm not even sure if this project will lead to something or if I'm losing my time :) But in my case, I was rather interested by doing design and pixel art. That's why I was looking if someone was interested to help me for the code/program. I think that recreating a new version for the PC Engine is already a pretty big task, almost like a new game. I'm trying to do this more like a proof of concept rather than anything else.
I also do this because I think it would be fun to revisit a game with new graphics, remixed musics, on a system the game wasn't originally intended for. The original graphics are really dark and rather simple. I think you could consider this as an equivalent to the remake of Mysterious Song.
Lunar on the MegaCD has never been reedited on another platform. More over, it's a classic game with good story and above all in english. There wasn't that many RPGs of that kind in english on the PC Engine. Well, even if there's nothing playable in the end, at least there will remain a couple of pretty screenshots :wink:
Don't get me wrong, I always love the enthusiasm people get when they talk about ports to the PCE. Especially when its those older titles for the NES/SMS or older. But, I always wonder why the time isn't spent creating something new and interesting. Even if its using some of the similar ideas from the game your trying to Port.... in this case we would say an epic RPG. A nice example of this is what Arkhan is doing with the classic arcade games. Using them as the basis to release something unigue in appearance and even in some small examples unique, in someway, mechanically. Like the nice new touches to "Pac-Man" title Pyramid Plunder.... the map and large, varied playfields etc.....
From my perspective it is easier to port a game even if you are starting with no code. Starting with something where you already know how the game engine should work is easier to code. Trying to create a game engine from your imagination and code it at the same time is tuff. Similar with the graphics. Improving graphics is a lot easier then trying create an entire world in your head/paper while in addition you still have to physically try to pixel the graphics anyway.
For a single person that can both create and code they alway have my respect. Usually you need a team of people where some have the ideas and others turn those ideas into code/graphics. Working over the internet it's very tough to coordinate a team even if it's 3 or 4 people.
In this case all the planning for how the game should look, function, behavior, including characters, weapons, inventory is done. All team members would just start working on their own pieces and then just bring it together.
Title: Re: LUNAR The Silver Star PCE Project
Post by: lord_cack on September 15, 2010, 04:16:08 PM
....Working over the internet it's very tough to coordinate a team even if it's 3 or 4 people.
And if it doesn't work out.... the above quote will most likely be the reason. Trust me (and those of us who do this sort of work) it is very difficult. But, the rewards when they pay off, even in small ways like seeing an animation, hearing the tune you have been working on, or playing a brief snippet of your game.... make the risks worth the effort. Its tough and when you throw in the fact that personal life always takes center stage. Its the most important thing. So sometimes finishing that project will have to wait.
There is also the option to rip the games guts out and just use the engine.... Theres no reason your original RPG couldn't use Lunar's game engine.... Not sure the technical problems present in doing such a thing. But Im sure if you can rip the graphics off and lay them back overtop the game, then you could just as well lay your own world overtop the engine. Maybe I over simplify....
Title: Re: LUNAR The Silver Star PCE Project
Post by: ParanoiaDragon on September 15, 2010, 05:58:54 PM
I was thinking, you could pick n' choose your favorite version of every song, however, I'd guess that some songs would have to be PCM, so, atleast for those, someone would have to rewrite them, not to mention, using the right sounding sound engine. The sound engine used (alteast) in LOX2 was fairly organic sounding at times, deffinitly one of my favorites. It's probably the same as the one used in LOX1, but perhaps tweaked a bit?
Title: Re: LUNAR The Silver Star PCE Project
Post by: SignOfZeta on September 15, 2010, 08:38:33 PM
When I see projects like this being started my only hope is that eventually a downloadable ISO of a working demo (burnable by N00bS, playable on real hardware) gets made. Anything more than that %99 of the time never comes to completion.
Title: Re: LUNAR The Silver Star PCE Project
Post by: lord_cack on September 15, 2010, 10:44:40 PM
When I see projects like this being started my only hope is that eventually a downloadable ISO of a working demo (burnable by N00bS, playable on real hardware) gets made. Anything more than that %99 of the time never comes to completion.
Sad but true
Title: Re: LUNAR The Silver Star PCE Project
Post by: Arm on September 16, 2010, 12:39:07 AM
When I see projects like this being started my only hope is that eventually a downloadable ISO of a working demo (burnable by N00bS, playable on real hardware) gets made. Anything more than that %99 of the time never comes to completion.
I was thinking, you could pick n' choose your favorite version of every song, however, I'd guess that some songs would have to be PCM, so, atleast for those, someone would have to rewrite them, not to mention, using the right sounding sound engine. The sound engine used (alteast) in LOX2 was fairly organic sounding at times, deffinitly one of my favorites. It's probably the same as the one used in LOX1, but perhaps tweaked a bit?
Actually, 90 % of the original soundtrack/speech is composed of cdda tracks, which could be reused as is or remixed a bit. I've already remixed the intro song with soundforge and Premiere with effects and sfx to illustrate the animation in a better way. I think there's still room to put a couple of additional tracks. For ingame sfx, I have the saturn sfx in wav for reference if it had to be recreated. What remains are a couple of small/short melodies like when you win a battle and such. The chip music in LoX 2 is very good. :) Unfortunately, I don't really know how to create soundchip music, so I guess someone would have to rewrite them.
There is also the option to rip the games guts out and just use the engine.... Theres no reason your original RPG couldn't use Lunar's game engine.... Not sure the technical problems present in doing such a thing. But Im sure if you can rip the graphics off and lay them back overtop the game, then you could just as well lay your own world overtop the engine. Maybe I over simplify....
You would need to rewrite all the main engine and the battle engine code for the PCE anyway. The PCE has technical limitations the MegaCD doesn't have. Creating a new RPG like Lunar would mean even before starting pixel art to recreate all the world settings/ color style/characters designs. This would require a tremendous amount of design works if you wanted it to be done properly. :)
I agree, creating something new and original is rewarding. Creating cutscenes art for Pier Solar was interesting Personally, I prefer to create a short animation movie to tell a story that I've imagined. I choose this medium because I know that I'll be able to recreate what I would have in my mind and manage to handle every step of the process which would be impossible in a game because of the graphic, sound or coding constraints.
These images were in the other thread so I put them here. The wrong syscard screenshot was created from the ground (after being drawn on paper then scanned)
Title: Re: LUNAR The Silver Star PCE Project
Post by: Arkhan on September 16, 2010, 03:37:40 AM
the white on purple is great. I vote that be standard in all RPGs.
Title: Re: LUNAR The Silver Star PCE Project
Post by: nodtveidt on September 20, 2010, 11:37:20 AM
I've thought about doing a PCE conversion of Lunar TSS before, as well as a PCE conversion of Vay... but never gave either any effort. What I think would be more interesting though is to take a game on a more advanced console and "downconvert" it to the PCE... anyone ever see that old NES FF7 mockup based on an FF1 battle scene?
Title: Re: LUNAR The Silver Star PCE Project
Post by: lord_cack on September 20, 2010, 12:32:32 PM
I've thought about doing a PCE conversion of Lunar TSS before, as well as a PCE conversion of Vay... but never gave either any effort. What I think would be more interesting though is to take a game on a more advanced console and "downconvert" it to the PCE... anyone ever see that old NES FF7 mockup based on an FF1 battle scene?
Now that is really a fantastic idea....
Title: Re: LUNAR The Silver Star PCE Project
Post by: Arm on September 20, 2010, 01:32:02 PM
I've thought about doing a PCE conversion of Lunar TSS before, as well as a PCE conversion of Vay... but never gave either any effort. What I think would be more interesting though is to take a game on a more advanced console and "downconvert" it to the PCE... anyone ever see that old NES FF7 mockup based on an FF1 battle scene?
Now that is really a fantastic idea....
Yes, that would be a good idea. :)
A talented coder has agreed to help me on the programming and technical side. So we're doing the LUNAR project together now.
Title: Re: LUNAR The Silver Star PCE Project
Post by: Arkhan on September 20, 2010, 03:38:53 PM
A talented coder has agreed to help me on the programming and technical side. So we're doing the LUNAR project together now.
a PCE coder? Which one?
Title: Re: LUNAR The Silver Star PCE Project
Post by: nodtveidt on September 20, 2010, 07:05:19 PM
You can count talented PCE coders on your fingers, so subtract two fingers coz it isn't me nor you, Arkhan :) Chris Covell, Bt Garner, Charles MacDonald, Tomatheous, Gravis Zero, maybe a couple of others... there aren't many PCE coders to begin with, let alone talented ones, so it should be easy to figure out who it is, hehe. :)
Title: Re: LUNAR The Silver Star PCE Project
Post by: Mathius on September 20, 2010, 07:34:17 PM
I'll be cheering you guys on from the stands. Arkhan, if you aren't his secret coder then please at least offer to assist in packaging design. Your Insanity package looks (and plays) great! :wink: It looks like a real PCE Super CD-ROM ROM sitting in my tower. Broken case and all. :mrgreen:
Hold me a copy if this ever gets off the ground to completion please. :)
Title: Re: LUNAR The Silver Star PCE Project
Post by: touko on September 20, 2010, 08:43:58 PM
Hum , my little finger telling me that this coder is tomaitheous .. :-k
I don't know why !! :P
Title: Re: LUNAR The Silver Star PCE Project
Post by: Arm on September 20, 2010, 08:58:00 PM
Touko said it.
Title: Re: LUNAR The Silver Star PCE Project
Post by: touko on September 20, 2010, 09:54:38 PM
Wahou, with your both talent, we can expect an incredible port .. :wink:
Title: Re: LUNAR The Silver Star PCE Project
Post by: Arkhan on September 21, 2010, 01:52:38 AM
Ah, I figured. Well, all I can say is good luck and don't invest too much time in the artwork.
Title: Re: LUNAR The Silver Star PCE Project
Post by: Arm on September 21, 2010, 01:54:18 AM
Why would anyone choose to convert Vay. It's the Deep Blue or Darkwing Duck of Sega CD RPGs.
Ima have to ask you to leave now.
:) haha
Title: Re: LUNAR The Silver Star PCE Project
Post by: nodtveidt on September 22, 2010, 05:28:34 PM
I love Vay, so f*ck y'all! :P :lol: Comparing it to Deep Blue or Darkwing Duck is sacrilege!
Anyways... backports of the newer Ys games is what I was referring to earlier... taking a more modern game and remaking it for the PCE. The newer Ys games would be perfect for it.
Arm, a little warning about working with Tomatheous... he's a great coder and a great guy in general, but I've seen him bail on promising projects before so you would really have to keep him interested to see this through to completion. He is known for his coding skill, not his dedication, so keep that in mind.
Title: Re: LUNAR The Silver Star PCE Project
Post by: Arkhan on September 23, 2010, 01:53:51 AM
Arm, a little warning about working with Tomatheous... he's a great coder and a great guy in general, but I've seen him bail on promising projects before so you would really have to keep him interested to see this through to completion. He is known for his coding skill, not his dedication, so keep that in mind.
+1
(not that I didn't already mention that to Arm or anything, :-D)
Also, am I the only one who refers to Vay as Lunar 1.5 ?
Title: Re: LUNAR The Silver Star PCE Project
Post by: Arm on September 23, 2010, 01:58:07 AM
Arm, a little warning about working with Tomatheous... he's a great coder and a great guy in general, but I've seen him bail on promising projects before so you would really have to keep him interested to see this through to completion. He is known for his coding skill, not his dedication, so keep that in mind.
Thanks for your concern :) but I don't think this was necessary.
Title: Re: LUNAR The Silver Star PCE Project
Post by: Arkhan on September 23, 2010, 02:04:14 AM
I think I speak for the rest of the PCE scene when I say it is necessary as a warning, only because we don't need another disappointment due to tons (read: 99%) of the audio visual elements being completed, followed by mockups, followed by the coding never happening, or being abandoned one tech-demo in.
If I had to pick one "what if" project though, Lunar would be it for sure, so I hope this project gets started and sees completion.
Title: Re: LUNAR The Silver Star PCE Project
Post by: lord_cack on September 23, 2010, 10:57:56 PM
....we don't need another disappointment due to tons (read: 99%) of the audio visual elements being completed, followed by mockups, followed by the coding never happening, or being abandoned one tech-demo in.
Title: Re: LUNAR The Silver Star PCE Project
Post by: DragonmasterDan on September 24, 2010, 01:14:17 AM
Also, am I the only one who refers to Vay as Lunar 1.5 ?
Yes, yes you are. Mainly because there's such an enormous gap between the quality of the games.
Then again, there's a huge gap between the other Lunar titles and Lunar: Dragon Song as well.
Added in edit: Just to clarify that statement reads back to me like "am I the only one who refers to Cheetahmen II as Super Mario Bros 3.5"
Vay is an unbalanced game with boring characters, a poor story, lousy overall game design, uninspired battles and is as bad as any 16-bit RPG released in the US.
Lunar is basically the exact opposite, a well packaged game with a compelling story (though cliched now, unique for its time), fun battles, fantastic characters, great dungeon and overworld design, great art, and great music.
Title: Re: LUNAR The Silver Star PCE Project
Post by: Arkhan on September 24, 2010, 01:48:19 AM
I dunno, the general style of the game was fairly similar.
I thought the story was pretty good, though admittedly the Japanese version is better. I blame the voice actors.
Theres something awesome about "BITCH STOLE MY WOMAN, TIME TO GET POWER ARMOR AND SAVE HER" to me.
I also really liked the music in that game.
It certainly isn't as charming as Lunar, but not many games accomplish that in general.
Title: Re: LUNAR The Silver Star PCE Project
Post by: DragonmasterDan on September 24, 2010, 02:32:56 AM
I dunno, the general style of the game was fairly similar.
I thought the story was pretty good, though admittedly the Japanese version is better. I blame the voice actors.
Theres something awesome about "BITCH STOLE MY WOMAN, TIME TO GET POWER ARMOR AND SAVE HER" to me.
I also really liked the music in that game.
It certainly isn't as charming as Lunar, but not many games accomplish that in general.
The general style of all j-RPGs are fairly similar. Especially anime style ones.
Vay was just uninteresting, when Pottle died I was relieved. Way too much time was spent leveling up, the dungeon design was boring.
And I guess that's the other thing. Lunar was not just charming but fantastic overall. You're comparing a shining example of a genre to a below average to poor at best game.
Title: Re: LUNAR The Silver Star PCE Project
Post by: Arkhan on September 24, 2010, 05:39:20 AM
And I guess that's the other thing. Lunar was not just charming but fantastic overall. You're comparing a shining example of a genre to a below average to poor at best game.
Not everyone thinks its below average. *shrug*. I thought Pottle getting shot was sad.
I ignore grinding/leveling as grounds for how good a game is. Dragon Warrior 2 requires a ton of it and the games still awesome.
Not all J-RPGs are fairly similar. There are a few definite trendsetters (Final Fantasy, Dragon Warrior), but alot of games derive from it enough to make their own sort of style. Vay borrows some from western RPGs. The character HUD is like straight out of Ultima.
I dunno, I don't think it is as below average as you're saying. I think maybe your Lunar<3 is getting in the way. Not that thats a bad thing.
Title: Re: LUNAR The Silver Star PCE Project
Post by: DragonmasterDan on September 24, 2010, 05:56:47 AM
And I guess that's the other thing. Lunar was not just charming but fantastic overall. You're comparing a shining example of a genre to a below average to poor at best game.
Not everyone thinks its below average. *shrug*. I thought Pottle getting shot was sad.
I ignore grinding/leveling as grounds for how good a game is. Dragon Warrior 2 requires a ton of it and the games still awesome.
Not all J-RPGs are fairly similar. There are a few definite trendsetters (Final Fantasy, Dragon Warrior), but alot of games derive from it enough to make their own sort of style. Vay borrows some from western RPGs. The character HUD is like straight out of Ultima.
I dunno, I don't think it is as below average as you're saying. I think maybe your Lunar<3 is getting in the way. Not that thats a bad thing.
Dragon Warrior 2 requires a ton of leveling up, but it's a very early JRPG and it at least has a more interesting battle system (and interesting looking enemies) than Vay, and it's better paced.
And Vay is below average for a Western released RPG at that time period. Keep in mind, we didn't get a lot of them, but it's worse than the following 16-bit RPGs that were out at the same time Cosmic Fantasy 2, Lunar, Dragon Slayer: Legend of Heroes, Final Fantasy 2 (IV), Phantasy Star II, even games like Phantasy Star III, Paladins Quest, were better. I can't think of many worse 16-bit classic style RPGs that were out in the US in that same time period.
Added in edit: Maybe Tecmo's Secret of the Stars, but even that was probably better than Vay
Title: Re: LUNAR The Silver Star PCE Project
Post by: Arkhan on September 24, 2010, 06:37:32 AM
Eh, its a matter of opinion.
I also tend to like games everyone else hates, like Hydlide, Brain Lord, and Faxanadu, so maybe I'm busted.
Title: Re: LUNAR The Silver Star PCE Project
Post by: blueraven on September 24, 2010, 08:40:23 AM
You like Faxanadu?
Title: Re: LUNAR The Silver Star PCE Project
Post by: DragonmasterDan on September 24, 2010, 08:54:52 AM
I also like Faxanadu, but that's based on the fact that it's an 8-bit game from around 1988 and considering the time it was pretty decent. The only similar games on the US NES (or any other domestic console) at the time were Zelda 2 or Rygar, and even those aren't super similar. It's based on the context it was released.
Title: Re: LUNAR The Silver Star PCE Project
Post by: Arkhan on September 24, 2010, 10:48:54 AM
I'm a big fan of Faxanadu, Legacy of the Wizard, and the Hydlide series.
All 3 games tend to make western gamers piss-and-moan about life.
There are a few other games like this as well.
Legacy of the Wizard is a great game, and most whiners didn't read the manual
Title: Re: LUNAR The Silver Star PCE Project
Post by: DragonmasterDan on September 24, 2010, 11:40:25 AM
I'm a big fan of Faxanadu, Legacy of the Wizard, and the Hydlide series.
All 3 games tend to make western gamers piss-and-moan about life.
There are a few other games like this as well.
Legacy of the Wizard is a great game, and most whiners didn't read the manual
I like Legacy of the Wizard as well.
Hydlide on the other hand, not so great. But that's if you compare it to games like Ys and Zelda which are newer game relative to when Hydlide was actually developed. The problem with Hydlide was it didn't reach the US until after those games did, which it was instantly compared to in a negative light.
Title: Re: LUNAR The Silver Star PCE Project
Post by: Arkhan on September 24, 2010, 02:39:36 PM
Hydlide on the other hand, not so great. But that's if you compare it to games like Ys and Zelda which are newer game relative to when Hydlide was actually developed. The problem with Hydlide was it didn't reach the US until after those games did, which it was instantly compared to in a negative light.
Hydlide 3 trumps zelda so hard
Title: Re: LUNAR The Silver Star PCE Project
Post by: Mathius on September 24, 2010, 05:40:57 PM
I never knew there was a Hydlide 3. :-k
Title: Re: LUNAR The Silver Star PCE Project
Post by: Arkhan on September 24, 2010, 06:50:12 PM
Hydlide 1 Hydlide 2: Shine of Darkness Hydlide 3: The Space Memories (Super Hydlide) Virtual Hydlide Windows Remakes of first 3
Title: Re: LUNAR The Silver Star PCE Project
Post by: Mathius on September 24, 2010, 07:22:30 PM
Oh ok. :)
Title: Re: LUNAR The Silver Star PCE Project
Post by: ParanoiaDragon on October 06, 2010, 06:37:47 AM
Arm, are you thinking of this game being Super CD? Or is there maybe the possibility of a hybrid for Arcade card owners? Also, if I didn't mention it before, don't forget there's an ost for the Lunar Harmony of Silver Star for PSP to choose music tracks from! IIRC, they even use live instruments in alot of the songs, so it'd be worth checking out, I'd say it's much better in general then the PS1/Saturn version's music.
Title: Re: LUNAR The Silver Star PCE Project
Post by: Arm on October 06, 2010, 01:46:18 PM
"Arm, are you thinking of this game being Super CD? Or is there maybe the possibility of a hybrid for Arcade card owners?"
There are chances it's going to be a Super CD game. Maybe arcade card compatible for faster loadings, but I'm still not sure about this. We'll see.
'there's an ost for the Lunar Harmony of Silver Star for PSP to choose music tracks from! IIRC, they even use live instruments in alot of the songs, so it'd be worth checking out, I'd say it's much better in general then the PS1/Saturn version's music."
Yeah I know, I have the soundtrack and some music rips from the game too. I had from the beginning the idea of using some of these tracks :)
Title: Re: LUNAR The Silver Star PCE Project
Post by: Arkhan on October 07, 2010, 04:08:31 AM
You definitely want to do a SuperCD game. Why wouldn't you!
Title: Re: LUNAR The Silver Star PCE Project
Post by: nodtveidt on October 18, 2010, 01:54:07 AM
Vay was just uninteresting, when Pottle died I was relieved. Way too much time was spent leveling up, the dungeon design was boring.
The game wasn't that bad. The dungeon design was actually kind of interesting IMO... it strayed from the usual maze-like clichés of the time with more of a "realistic" outlay... most of the areas were similar to something you'd find in real life. And there wasn't a whole lot of level grinding either... only in a few areas, and usually only if you wanted to. I usually only did level buildup in the beginning (to level 6), before the Wind Elemental (to level 20), and before the Ultragoyles (to level 30 or higher in Marwick... last time I went to level 44... and I always get the best equipment in the towns past Treefall)... then sometimes at the end if I felt like it... there is a great spot in Danek for level grinding if you feel like it (if you get Sandor to 999HP, Draktyr is a breeze). But hell, I did level grinding in Lunar too so that's not even an issue... and sometimes, before the game proper even started... sell off the clothes he starts with and buy some heavy clothes, then go out on your own and kill beetles while hanging around the shrine of Althena. Sure Alex has to punch them to death at first :) but it really gives you a serious edge for dealing with the early challenges, like the Haunted Woods... and it goes even faster if you get a Dagger drop. And right after Alex learns to use magic, I do level grinding in the sewers until he learns his multi-attack fire spell... that gives him enough power to not only deal with the dragon but also to pass the trial of Vane. There are other grind points later in the game too (like before the Black Dragon, level grinding is a MUST, as that thing is really powerful)... I once got Alex to level 99 in Ghaleon's palace... that refresh spring inside the palace made it mad easy.
Vay trumps Phantasy Star II and III with ease. They SUCK. Hard. I don't even know how they made it out of testing with so many glitches and such terrible gameplay, especially III.
Title: Re: LUNAR The Silver Star PCE Project
Post by: Mathius on October 18, 2010, 04:49:09 AM
Man, Old Rover! If I ever buy Vay I am going to use your post as a strategy guide! Seriously! :mrgreen:
Title: Re: LUNAR The Silver Star PCE Project
Post by: nodtveidt on October 19, 2010, 08:29:37 AM
Heh, I could write more about the game if need be. :D I recently played through it again a few weeks ago.
Now, you wanna talk about grinding... I just finished another run-thru of FF3US on the SNES. That's one of the most grind-whoring games I've ever played. I put 40 hours into it, 98% of which was spent building levels and magics.
Title: Re: LUNAR The Silver Star PCE Project
Post by: spenoza on October 19, 2010, 12:08:46 PM
Regardless of how much JRPGs have strayed from their rather distant tabletop origins, they do have one thing in common. Everyone complains when you can't customize your abilities, and then when you can, you have to grind and fuzz and micromanage to either become effective or to NOT become a godlike power. FF6/3, 2j, and 7 were all customization whores where there was almost no difference between characters except their innate specialties which you simply could not change. For FF2j disregard that very last bit.
I've come to like, more recently, the RPGs, tabletop and JRPGs, that give you fewer things to customize. Makes it easier to engage with whatever else is going on. Lunar was always pretty good about that. The battles were strategic enough but you weren't micro-managing your character growth. I like focusing on making the best of what I have.
Title: Re: LUNAR The Silver Star PCE Project
Post by: nodtveidt on October 28, 2010, 11:29:07 AM
Micromanaging in a game isn't a bad thing though... it's more or less closer to reality, although people usually play games to escape reality. :)