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Tech and Homebrew => Turbo/PCE Game/Tool Development => Topic started by: Arkhan on January 27, 2011, 02:22:06 PM
Title: Slightly later than expected, a Pyramid Plunder Video!
Post by: Arkhan on January 27, 2011, 02:22:06 PM
I suck at video editing. We knew this already.
Enjoy anyways.
Title: Re: Slightly later than expected, a Pyramid Plunder Video!
Post by: BlueBMW on January 27, 2011, 02:56:52 PM
Want! When can I preorder =P~
Title: Re: Slightly later than expected, a Pyramid Plunder Video!
Post by: TheClash603 on January 27, 2011, 03:14:26 PM
I am ready to come in near last in the contest again. Although, I will admit that the title makes me wish you did a Spelunker on TG16... that game would've been amazing on the system!
Level 7-1 looks ace!
Title: Re: Slightly later than expected, a Pyramid Plunder Video!
Post by: nodtveidt on January 27, 2011, 03:46:45 PM
Not bad at all... looks pretty fun. :D
Title: Re: Slightly later than expected, a Pyramid Plunder Video!
Post by: SignOfZeta on January 27, 2011, 05:48:10 PM
Nice!
Title: Re: Slightly later than expected, a Pyramid Plunder Video!
Post by: Tablet on January 27, 2011, 06:50:56 PM
Very nice!
Title: Re: Slightly later than expected, a Pyramid Plunder Video!
Post by: nikdog on January 27, 2011, 10:49:59 PM
Like I said on youtube, I'm gonna suck at this game.
Title: Re: Slightly later than expected, a Pyramid Plunder Video!
Post by: Arkhan on January 27, 2011, 11:29:23 PM
You can mostly consider the game completed. Other games are being worked on now, since Pyramid Plunder just needs more maps more or less. :D
Title: Re: Slightly later than expected, a Pyramid Plunder Video!
Post by: Necromancer on January 28, 2011, 01:47:17 AM
Lookin' good - I can't wait!
Title: Re: Slightly later than expected, a Pyramid Plunder Video!
Post by: Gogan on January 28, 2011, 02:25:18 AM
Goodstuff
Title: Re: Slightly later than expected, a Pyramid Plunder Video!
Post by: spenoza on January 28, 2011, 05:20:06 AM
Are you using similar algorithms for the enemies as were used in the original Pac Man? Do the enemies all track differently?
Title: Re: Slightly later than expected, a Pyramid Plunder Video!
Post by: Arkhan on January 28, 2011, 05:26:15 AM
Kind of. The AI is a bit derpy sometimes since the mazes are more elaborate than the original ones. The AI for original pacman worked mostly because of how the mazes were made.
Now, with all the branches and turns, it allows for some derp.
It needs a bit of tweaking, :D
Title: Re: Slightly later than expected, a Pyramid Plunder Video!
Post by: TheOldMan on January 28, 2011, 09:36:30 AM
Are you using similar algorithms for the enemies as were used in the original Pac Man? Do the enemies all track differently?
As much as possible, we used the original AI behavior (include the overflow bug). However, there are a couple of things that the game brings in that were not in the original pac-man:
1) Dead Ends. The original pac-man maze has -no- dead ends. But it's really, really difficult to design a maze without them. Especially since the maze is an odd size. So, we modified the behavior to 'properly' handle dead ends. Well, at least we think we did - there are some situations that really took a lot of careful thought. But at least we haven't seen the debug error trap for illegal moves in the past few months :-)
2) Targeting. The original pac-man used off-screen targets; while we originally had the targets off-screen, it simply became easier to move them into the screen area to allow them to be adjusted to tweak the AI. We did that at the same time we changed things to allow the ghosts to start at different locations. (Since some of the mazes have walls where the ghosts would normally start)
So yeah, the routines are very similar, though not identical. And the behavior is different as well, since the targets can be/have been moved around.... And, there's a fifth ghost (and room for 7 total), which has a new AI routine, using the same information as the original pac-man routines. We could add more, but we can't really come up with any more good algorithms to do the AI, without mirroring what's already being done :-( Maybe before it's released we will add a few more ghosts to the higher levels...
And if you are really interested in the ghost AI, look up the pac-man dossier. That's where we got our info from :-)
Title: Re: Slightly later than expected, a Pyramid Plunder Video!
Post by: ccovell on January 28, 2011, 10:37:39 AM
It looks very cute and reminds me of the Pac-Man like game in Game Center CX 2 on the DS. :-D Love the sound effects and the radar scope too.
I like the title screen; Did you intentionally make it look identical to Pyramid Magic on the Megadrive?
Title: Re: Slightly later than expected, a Pyramid Plunder Video!
Post by: Keranu on January 28, 2011, 11:39:31 AM
The PSG music in this sounds awesome! Not just the song itself, but the quality! Sounds like an authentic PCE game would've back in the day.
The step sound effect is also a very nice touch. Do you plan on adding a sound effect whenever you pick up the gold bars too? Might be too distracting, but I also think it would make the game feel really good if it had a sound effect similar to Lords of Thunder when gathering crystals by the bunches.
Title: Re: Slightly later than expected, a Pyramid Plunder Video!
Post by: Arkhan on January 28, 2011, 12:03:44 PM
It looks very cute and reminds me of the Pac-Man like game in Game Center CX 2 on the DS. :-D Love the sound effects and the radar scope too.
I like the title screen; Did you intentionally make it look identical to Pyramid Magic on the Megadrive?
I dunno. I didn't paint it. A friend did, but I think it may be coincidental, as he makes fun of the megadrive alot. :D
Quote from: 'Keranu'
The PSG music in this sounds awesome! Not just the song itself, but the quality! Sounds like an authentic PCE game would've back in the day.
The step sound effect is also a very nice touch. Do you plan on adding a sound effect whenever you pick up the gold bars too? Might be too distracting, but I also think it would make the game feel really good if it had a sound effect similar to Lords of Thunder when gathering crystals by the bunches.
Yeah, there will be more similar themed tunes, and the SFX will get tweaked a bit. They are sort of just place holder for now. I know how to do some pretty interesting sfx now.
there will be a non-abrasive gold pickup sound too.
It'll be the hardest part. It can't be annoying, since you hear it constantly.
Title: Re: Slightly later than expected, a Pyramid Plunder Video!
Post by: bernielindell on January 28, 2011, 01:10:50 PM
I like it. A lot actually. Cant wait to add it to my colection. Good job guys!
Title: Re: Slightly later than expected, a Pyramid Plunder Video!
Post by: spenoza on January 28, 2011, 05:16:36 PM
I'm rather familiar with it, which is why I asked. I'm heartened to hear you are as well.
Yeah, there will be more similar themed tunes, and the SFX will get tweaked a bit. They are sort of just place holder for now. I know how to do some pretty interesting sfx now.
there will be a non-abrasive gold pickup sound too.
It'll be the hardest part. It can't be annoying, since you hear it constantly.
Disclaimer: The following are my daydreams. I know you folks are busy and time/energy is a limited resource. Nonetheless, I can't resist since I love tweaking gameplay mechanics/scoring formula/aesthetic payoffs...
IMHU, this is what would be ideal (these guidelines apply to all games in my humble universe):
(1) If feasible, an option to turn off the "Chronic SFX" (yes, use that new term I invented) would be nice. "Chronic SFX" include footsteps, gold pickups, etc. (2) Soft, nuanced, barely audible sounds are my fave for Chronic SFX (3) RIDICULOUS DAYDREAM: I know that you would have to rework your code, but it would be neat if you kept a "counter" for the gold pickups and provided a subtle reward (i.e. a special sound effect, possibly bonus points) for achieving different feats. For example: (A) # pickups per X seconds, (B) X pickups without stopping, (C) or, perhaps easier to code and more rewarding... after say, 8 consecutive pickups (with very low SFX), each successive pickup (that is part of the "chain" or "streak") has special pickup SFX. So... pickups #1-8 = normal SFX, pickups #9+ (in chain) = Special SFX.
(C) is fun because even if you don't change the scoring, the player is still "rewarded" for their feats with the different SFX. I personally love when games offer subtle, SEEMINGLY trivial aesthetic feedback. The problem, though, is that many games use a numerical counter (X3, X4, X5...) and I could care less about that. Hearing a neat sound effect or tune is far more fun and rewarding to me.
Hey, I've got problems. I'll stop there.
As I said, if you shipped Pyramid Plunder as-is, I'd be damn happy :)
Title: Re: Slightly later than expected, a Pyramid Plunder Video!
Post by: Arkhan on January 29, 2011, 05:07:16 AM
There *is* a gold bar pickup sfx right now.
A barely audible percussive sound. I want to fiddle and chime it up a little bit.
I've figured out some weird things I can do to make more obnoxious sfx as well.
I hate when a game has a repetitive, blaring sound. Even sapphire does that. The shot noises are kinda ouch.
Title: Re: Slightly later than expected, a Pyramid Plunder Video!
Post by: nodtveidt on January 29, 2011, 05:09:57 AM
The most obnoxious sound so far is the text sound in Exile II. If you can make a more obnoxious sound than that, you are guaranteed to get a visit from people with sharp pointy sticks.
Title: Re: Slightly later than expected, a Pyramid Plunder Video!
Post by: TheOldMan on January 29, 2011, 05:28:34 AM
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(1) If feasible, an option to turn off the "Chronic SFX" (yes, use that new term I invented) would be nice. "Chronic SFX" include footsteps, gold pickups, etc.
Really? I always found the background music to be more annoying. There's a mute for all the sound, btw. Do we really need seperate volume controls? (It could be done, just a matter of adjusting volume levels....I think)
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but it would be neat if you kept a "counter" for the gold pickups and provided a subtle reward (i.e. a special sound effect, possibly bonus points)
Well, we wouldn't need to -add- a counter, since we have to track when all the gold is gone. But it's real easy to string together a lot of pickups, so I don't really see anything gained by rewarding long pickup runs. In most cases, it's actually possible to clear the entire board in one go. Well, at least the one I tested with - I got pretty good at doing it. As for different sound effects for runs....It's doable, but arkhan has to come up with them. That's the really hard part....
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really interested in the ghost AI....
I'm rather familiar with it...
Okay, Then here's a nice bonus. We tried to match the event timings, too :)
And Arkhan - You didn't use any of the other power-ups. I'm disappointed in that.... In case you didn't know, I think select changes them, and II uses them...
Title: Re: Slightly later than expected, a Pyramid Plunder Video!
Post by: Arkhan on January 29, 2011, 05:54:38 AM
I had used it in one of the clips I recorded, but the clip came out all retarded and I must have forgot to use it again.
Oh well. I at least mention them. :)
Title: Re: Slightly later than expected, a Pyramid Plunder Video!
Post by: Keranu on January 29, 2011, 09:41:48 AM
The most obnoxious sound so far is the text sound in Exile II. If you can make a more obnoxious sound than that, you are guaranteed to get a visit from people with sharp pointy sticks.
Try playing Rayxamber III sometime. That always gets my vote for most annoying sound effects ever! A shame too considering how rad the background music is.
Title: Re: Slightly later than expected, a Pyramid Plunder Video!
Post by: esteban on January 29, 2011, 10:20:03 AM
(1) If feasible, an option to turn off the "Chronic SFX" (yes, use that new term I invented) would be nice. "Chronic SFX" include footsteps, gold pickups, etc.
Really? I always found the background music to be more annoying. There's a mute for all the sound, btw. Do we really need seperate volume controls? (It could be done, just a matter of adjusting volume levels....I think)
Precisely my point: it is very kool when designers think about the way people play/enjoy games. For you, the main music = annoying. For me, the Chronic SFX = annoying. Simply having a single master toggle -- SFX = ON (or) OFF -- would make neither you nor I happy.
I like the occasional SFX, since they do not detract from the music.
Anyway, as I said, the simplest solution is simply to use barely audible sounds for the Chronic SFX.
The enjoyment one derives from a song, of course, is subjective--but it is also dependent on the quality of the composition itself. A well-crafted song tries not to become stale, repetitive and monotonous too quickly. Truly, it is an art. But so is game design.
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but it would be neat if you kept a "counter" for the gold pickups and provided a subtle reward (i.e. a special sound effect, possibly bonus points)
Well, we wouldn't need to -add- a counter, since we have to track when all the gold is gone. But it's real easy to string together a lot of pickups, so I don't really see anything gained by rewarding long pickup runs. In most cases, it's actually possible to clear the entire board in one go. Well, at least the one I tested with - I got pretty good at doing it. As for different sound effects for runs....It's doable, but arkhan has to come up with them. That's the really hard part....
Clearly, to create a great scoring system, the goal would be to reward the player for accomplishing something that is challenging. So, I agree with you, the player should earn those bonus points! :)
However, I only mentioned the scoring system in passing (hence my qualifier "possibly" in reference to scoring). Indeed, I was primarily focused on the subtle aesthetic flourishes you could add to the game to provide feedback to the player and enhance his/her enjoyment of the game. To that end, I stand by my suggestions. I would love a game that provided a different audible cue for, say, every 10 consecutive bricks I picked up AFTER n (n = a minimum threshold that could vary from board to board, or from a master difficulty setting). It's a simple, fun way to reward the player. Since the chaining counter RESETS (otherwise, there is no challenge), I think players would create different strategies to achieve different feats (time-based, chaining-based, etc.).
Anyway, I certainly am not trying to argue with you or give you a hard time :) . I think it is fun to discuss these aspects of game design.
Title: Re: Slightly later than expected, a Pyramid Plunder Video!
Post by: Arkhan on January 29, 2011, 01:22:37 PM
The scoring thing is an interesting point. Maybe something could/should be done. A simple bonus of (chain length * board) could work, along with a bleepbloop noise so you know it just happened.
I'll be honest, Pac Man is boring. I like it to a certain point and then I get bored, severely.
Especially since Pac Man, if you know what you're doing, you can basically play with your eyes closed.
I always dreamt of a Pac Man game with guns, and then I went oh wait, the Tank level in Tron. :D
Title: Re: Slightly later than expected, a Pyramid Plunder Video!
Post by: esteban on January 29, 2011, 04:17:08 PM
The scoring thing is an interesting point. Maybe something could/should be done. A simple bonus of (chain length * board) could work, along with a bleepbloop noise so you know it just happened.
I'll be honest, Pac Man is boring. I like it to a certain point and then I get bored, severely.
Especially since Pac Man, if you know what you're doing, you can basically play with your eyes closed.
I always dreamt of a Pac Man game with guns, and then I went oh wait, the Tank level in Tron. :D
Exactly. :) PacMan should have bombs...and platforming.
(http://junk.tg-16.com/images/PacBomberMan.gif)
Title: Re: Slightly later than expected, a Pyramid Plunder Video!
Post by: Arkhan on January 29, 2011, 05:22:29 PM
Now there is an interesting idea
Title: Re: Slightly later than expected, a Pyramid Plunder Video!
Post by: shubibiman on January 29, 2011, 10:02:12 PM
Actually, Bomberman is supposed to be a Pacman clone.
Title: Re: Slightly later than expected, a Pyramid Plunder Video!
Post by: Arkhan on January 30, 2011, 01:18:19 AM