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NEC TG-16/TE/TurboDuo => TG/PCE Repair/Mod Discussion => Topic started by: D-Lite on August 31, 2005, 05:27:27 PM
Title: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: D-Lite on August 31, 2005, 05:27:27 PM
Yes, you read that right!!
Note that this is a fix for a SPECIFIC sound issue, but the big one. For this to work you will need to PROPERLY identify the problem with your system. There is more than one problem that can occur with Turbo Duo systems and I think this is going to work for many.
OK, the problem and diagnosis. Here are typical issues with Duo systems: 1. CD plays and loads fine, but all redbook audio (soundtrack, not sound effects) is dead. 2. audio is scratchy and may fade in and out, but the CD games load and play no problem (well, except for sound, duh) 3. CD play is sketchy and the drive sounds like it's struggling. More than just a sound issue
This fix seems to work mainly for the #2 case and maybe for #1. I need to test more systems though to be clear on what it works on. It should work for both, but I won't commit to that without further study.
So, some of you may have seen my hypothesis about what the sound issue is due to and after struggling for a way to prove it, I've finally found a way to study it. I blame the sound issue on overheating with the Duo model and have stated that the later DuoR and RX should be problem free due to placement of the audio components in relation to the heat sinks. But how to study the problem when you need the CD drive running, yet the cover off? The CD lid is required to keep the CD spinning.
At this point I'd like to take a moment to mourn the loss of a PC Engine Duo that gave it's life so others may live: (http://www.multimods.com/images/Sales/R10x600.jpg)
I cut the top up so I could test the components while running. Don't worry, the unit itself was already dead anyways.
OK, so, look at the area need the heat sinks: (http://www.multimods.com/images/Sales/R9x600.jpg) In the yellow circle I highlight key components. The 10 uF caps on the left and right are controlling the left and right channel pre and post amp. The little 8-pin chip in the middle is an op-amp that is needed to process the sound. After tapping around on these, I found that the POST op-amp caps are indeed the ones responsible for the sound level and the scratching you sometimes hear. Sweet! These come from an era in the early 90's when there was rumored to be a problem with capacitor production. Dry cap likely. This is the same issue as with the Turbo Express that I covered before.
So then I ripped the bastards out and soldered down a couple of brand new 10 uF, 50V caps: (http://www.multimods.com/images/Sales/R12x600.jpg) Simple as hell and cheap, <$1 for the parts. Of course you need a special screwdriver bit to even open the thing, but hey....
And that's that! As said, I'm still working on what can and can't be repaired with this problem. More details will come when I can figure that out too.
And as it turns out I am figuring out how to deal with problem #3, wonky CD drive performance. Hallmark is the grinding, whining, whistling, stopping, grunting CD drive and game pausing, slow loading. There are 5 little screws in the unit that directly effect the drive performance so hopefully that will be fruitful.
Major thanks to Saibot and monads for supplying Duo's to look at. Hopefully I can fix theirs too.
Title: TURBO DUO SOUND FIX!! (56k beware)
Post by: rolins on August 31, 2005, 05:49:57 PM
Excellent work D-Lite! When will you be able to take orders?
Title: TURBO DUO SOUND FIX!! (56k beware)
Post by: esteban on August 31, 2005, 06:17:55 PM
Absolutely fabulous work, D-Lite! And the presentation of your post, including the photos, was simply killer. THANK YOU :D
Title: TURBO DUO SOUND FIX!! (56k beware)
Post by: larsulrik on August 31, 2005, 06:57:28 PM
Awesome! #2 is me (even though I mentioned a couple of weeks ago letting it run for a while temporarily fixed it). Do you think the overheating will still be an issue with the new caps or was that just something the old caps had problems with? Thanks Chief!
Title: TURBO DUO SOUND FIX!! (56k beware)
Post by: dj898 on August 31, 2005, 06:58:34 PM
good to see we still have PC Engine/Turbo gurus around... :D
Title: TURBO DUO SOUND FIX!! (56k beware)
Post by: D-Lite on August 31, 2005, 08:57:47 PM
Quote from: "larsulrik"
Awesome! #2 is me (even though I mentioned a couple of weeks ago letting it run for a while temporarily fixed it). Do you think the overheating will still be an issue with the new caps or was that just something the old caps had problems with? Thanks Chief!
I think the main issue is the old caps suck. I've seen beautiful Duo's have the sound problem. I've seen MANY Turbo Expresses with dead caps too. The problem is likely due to the quality of the capacitors themselves so the new ones will probably be more robust for longer times.
I have a couple systems on hand that have flakey sound. Sometimes I run it for 2 hours straight and no problems! Sometimes it's screwed from the start. Hard to figure out the problems when it's like that, like your system that gets better with running. Perhaps something causes it to build enough of a charge that it'll work, who knows. The good thing is, doing this little repair can only help, not hurt.
Title: TURBO DUO SOUND FIX!! (56k beware)
Post by: zborgerd on September 01, 2005, 04:08:22 AM
Nice work!
Title: TURBO DUO SOUND FIX!! (56k beware)
Post by: DragonmasterDan on September 01, 2005, 08:44:32 AM
Though I dont have a problem with the sound on my Duo, would this be a good thing to do for preventative maintanence?
Title: TURBO DUO SOUND FIX!! (56k beware)
Post by: esteban on September 01, 2005, 10:05:03 AM
Quote from: "DragonmasterDan"
Though I dont have a problem with the sound on my Duo, would this be a good thing to do for preventative maintanence?
Ahhh, good question, Dan.
Title: TURBO DUO SOUND FIX!! (56k beware)
Post by: Keranu on September 01, 2005, 10:34:42 AM
Well done again, D-Lite.
Title: TURBO DUO SOUND FIX!! (56k beware)
Post by: D-Lite on September 01, 2005, 11:15:47 AM
Quote from: "stevek666"
Quote from: "DragonmasterDan"
Though I dont have a problem with the sound on my Duo, would this be a good thing to do for preventative maintanence?
Ahhh, good question, Dan.
Not necessarily good or bad. It's simple enough so sure you could, but I'd wait until the problems start.
I've been testing out a system that has no volume at the start and then comes in within 15-20 seconds of play and persists well. Again seems to be a capacitor that is poorly charging. This will/should address #1 above, I hope, to some extent. I have another Duo here that is highly unpredictable in terms of #1, so that is my big challenge.
Title: TURBO DUO SOUND FIX!! (56k beware)
Post by: Black Tiger on September 06, 2005, 02:43:37 PM
Quote from: "D-Lite"
Quote from: "stevek666"
Quote from: "DragonmasterDan"
Though I dont have a problem with the sound on my Duo, would this be a good thing to do for preventative maintanence?
Ahhh, good question, Dan.
Not necessarily good or bad. It's simple enough so sure you could, but I'd wait until the problems start.
I've been testing out a system that has no volume at the start and then comes in within 15-20 seconds of play and persists well. Again seems to be a capacitor that is poorly charging. This will/should address #1 above, I hope, to some extent. I have another Duo here that is highly unpredictable in terms of #1, so that is my big challenge.
I'm so glad that there are people like you that not only have the know how, but also give a damn about a system like the TG/PCE to do things like this.
Title: TURBO DUO SOUND FIX!! (56k beware)
Post by: grendelrt on June 23, 2006, 02:05:34 AM
I know I am reviving a dead thread, but I think this a good thread to keep at the top.
I was wondering a couple things. This will be my first undertaking of modding a system. I was wondering the best way to remove the original capacitors? Also I noticed D Lite replaced a third capacitor at the bottom (not one of the two he pointed out), does it need to replaced as well. What wattage soldering iron should I use (specific solder?)? Right now my duo every once in a while has the sound fade in about 20 secs after start up and some scratchy audio issues, both of which it seems this little mod will help. Any other suggestions would be appreciated.
Title: TURBO DUO SOUND FIX!! (56k beware)
Post by: grahf on June 23, 2006, 07:21:10 AM
grendelrt, try some fresh desoldering braid and a good fine tip iron. A touch of flux may help if the braid has trouble getting started. It may be a tight fit to get to some of the caps. Then when youve got them pretty clean, just heat and lift each side lightly alternatly until it comes off.
Title: TURBO DUO SOUND FIX!! (56k beware)
Post by: grendelrt on June 23, 2006, 07:46:25 AM
Cool thanks =)
Title: TURBO DUO SOUND FIX!! (56k beware)
Post by: FM-77 on June 23, 2006, 09:02:06 AM
15-25W.
Title: TURBO DUO SOUND FIX!! (56k beware)
Post by: grendelrt on June 23, 2006, 09:05:39 AM
I am going to try and grab an old computer motherboard and test out my skills on it first. The last thing I soldered was not a precision job :lol:
Title: TURBO DUO SOUND FIX!! (56k beware)
Post by: grendelrt on June 23, 2006, 11:16:33 AM
Well the only thing i could find at the local radio shack was a 10uf 35v. DO you think this is enough? The capacitors on the board are labeled 10 16. So I am guessing 10uf 16v. D Lite said 50V for his replacement, but I am not sure of anywhere else to find a capacitor locally. By the way, this things are soooo much tinier than they look in the pics lol
Well I finished, I used the 35v caps and they seem to be working fine. I had no fade in music with Lords of Thunder, which almost always happened. I tried to take pictures along the way to help others, but they didnt come out, the only one that is half decent was the final product pic:
(http://pic.photobucket.com/bwe.png)
Oh and here is a video for your enjoyment and my moment of happiness =)
Title: TURBO DUO SOUND FIX!! (56k beware)
Post by: bgarske on June 23, 2006, 03:08:48 PM
Wow! That's cool. Now I wonder if I have the same problem. I lose the music usually late into a level on Lords of Thunder. (Certain levels more than others.) I thought it was because my disk was all scratched up. I've not had any problems with Gate of Thunder losing the CD music. So far, those are the only Duo games I have with CD audio. I'll be getting some more CD games (and a new copy of LOT from tzd.com) real soon so I have some more to test with. What do you think? Am I going to have to do surgery?
Title: TURBO DUO SOUND FIX!! (56k beware)
Post by: grahf on June 23, 2006, 07:36:18 PM
Nice job grendelrt. Yes, those caps you used will be fine. Its ok to go with a higher voltage than required, but no need to go overkill.
bgarske, I would wait until you get your new copy of LOT before you do anything. The way most Duos are, if you make them skip bad enough they will stop playing audio until its ready to load the next track. If you tap the console pretty hard for example. If you disk is scratched bad enough, it could possibly be causing the same thing.
Title: TURBO DUO SOUND FIX!! (56k beware)
Post by: grendelrt on June 24, 2006, 04:53:28 AM
Yeah grahf is right. I was moving my console the other day and bonked it, CD cut out because it made the CD skip. If the scratches on your disk are bad they could do the same thing, from what i hear the CD Roms all have pretty crappy error correction.
Title: TURBO DUO SOUND FIX!! (56k beware)
Post by: bgarske on June 24, 2006, 10:12:14 AM
Hey grendelrt, what did you use to open the case?
Title: TURBO DUO SOUND FIX!! (56k beware)
Post by: grendelrt on June 24, 2006, 04:43:03 PM
I bought one of those security bits of ebay, was like 6 bucks shipped. Here ya go:
Title: TURBO DUO SOUND FIX!! (56k beware)
Post by: SignOfZeta on June 24, 2006, 06:09:07 PM
This is very good news for people with OG Duo sound problems. I seem to be the one guy on Earth with an Oct 1992 Duo and not a problem.
I feel like I have to point out though that a Duo can be run with the case off totally while servicing it. The magnet in the lid can be removed amazingly easily, and the placed on top of the CD to hold it in place as usual. No need to destroy a good case.
Title: TURBO DUO SOUND FIX!! (56k beware)
Post by: esteban on June 24, 2006, 09:19:29 PM
Quote from: "SignOfZeta"
This is very good news for people with OG Duo sound problems. I seem to be the one guy on Earth with an Oct 1992 Duo and not a problem.
No, there are many of us who have had no problems. I have a TG-CD and TurboDuo and haven't had a problem with them. The TG-CD has had a billion hours of use and is still going strong. When not playing games, I used to listen to music CD's for hours on end. Had I thought about the long-term, I would've used another CD player for music... but it never ocurred to me back in the day.
Title: TURBO DUO SOUND FIX!! (56k beware)
Post by: grahf on June 25, 2006, 05:25:02 AM
A large number of electronics from the early 90s/late 80s have the capacitor problem. Its not just NEC consoles. I do a lot of work on automotive ECUs/ECMs. Some will always need replacing, but in other cars they will always still be good.
I think it has a lot to do with where/when the console was made, and which components were used. Some consoles are just going to go bad, its only a matter of time. Others will last like they were supposed to.
Title: TURBO DUO SOUND FIX!! (56k beware)
Post by: Keranu on June 25, 2006, 06:10:50 PM
Good info, grahf.
Title: TURBO DUO SOUND FIX!! (56k beware)
Post by: geise on June 28, 2006, 03:20:15 AM
So this fix still only works for problem #2, the sound that fades in and out. So no one has gotten this to work with problem #1 yet?
Title: TURBO DUO SOUND FIX!! (56k beware)
Post by: bgarske on June 28, 2006, 10:41:02 AM
I got my new Lords of Thunder disk in and it works perfect! (The music doesn't drop out like the other scratched up disk.) It must have been the disk that was the problem. So it looks like I have an America Turboduo without any problems!
Title: TURBO DUO SOUND FIX!! (56k beware)
Post by: avkooi on July 10, 2006, 09:33:39 AM
Since a few days, I am the proud owner of a Duo RX, which (sadly) has the same problem #2 as described by D-Lite.
I opened the console and found out that the identification numbers (C???, IC???) are the same ones as on the pictures from the Turbo Duo mainboard.
Do you think it helps if I change the two capacitors (C604 and C610) for new ones? BTW, they are not located close to the power circuit, but under the optical unit, and the capacitors are not the metal ones, but look like the ones D-Lite used for the fix.
Any help is much appriciated!
Title: TURBO DUO SOUND FIX!! (56k beware)
Post by: grendelrt on July 10, 2006, 10:11:29 AM
This is one of the first times I have heard of the RX having sound problems, they are usually problem free.
Title: TURBO DUO SOUND FIX!! (56k beware)
Post by: grahf on July 10, 2006, 05:19:37 PM
Its still possible that they are bad, even though they are not the usual faulty type. It cant hurt to change them if you have the ability.
Title: TURBO DUO SOUND FIX!! (56k beware)
Post by: avkooi on July 13, 2006, 08:43:09 PM
I changed the two capacitors "after" the op-amp, like D-Lite wrote. The problem of the fading sound-level is over now. But there is still a lot of electrical noise from the audio-out. It sounds like a bad contact, but that can not be the problem, because I checked and cleaned them.
So my next plan is to change the capacitors on the pre-amp side as well. I'll let you know what the effect will be!
Title: TURBO DUO SOUND FIX!! (56k beware)
Post by: grendelrt on July 14, 2006, 01:48:08 AM
Sounds good, I was thinking of changing those out myself.
Title: crazy stuff!
Post by: _joshuaTurbo on September 09, 2006, 06:07:28 AM
I hate to necropost but I have a story.
I have a Duo(US) that seems to have (or had) the #2 problem. The games load up just fine, but the CD music/sounds don't work at all. I had even tried using just a regular compact disk. I think it was an amorphis CD to be exact. And on the Music player it shows that the CD is playing, but I still would get no sound.
This was around last summer(2005) when I was just getting totally frustrated with this! In 2003 I had a DUO totally blow out on me, it wouldn't even spin the CD. So instead of going out and seeking my 3rd Duo, I decided on emulating. Now while I love what they'v done with ME and HUGO, It just isn't the same.
So I was telling one of my buds about some of the problems I've had with the DUO and just last night, say around 8pm we got together and I pulled out the ole DUO from storage and booted it up. I put in Lords of Thunder, and boom, NO sound. the built in sound effects where ok, and the game was playing just fine.
Then just for the hell of it we played around with some HuCards (BattleRoyal, Bomberman, and Sonic Spike) after about 2 hours of gaming a couple more people came over, and they were asking about some CD and SCD games, and I regretfully told them that the Duo lense had burned out. SO just for the hell of it I tried Lords of Thunder again and when I hit Run, all of the SUDDEN the most rockin' soundtrack EVAR in a video game came thrashing out my Surround Sound!!!!
My friends told me I looked like I saw a ghost. I was in shock, the friggin thing was WORKING!! We went on to play Dungeon Explorer II, Fatul Fury Special, DracX, and Lords until around 5am!
Every single game worked like a charm! I cannot explain it. Then I read this:
Quote
I let it run for a while and this seems to fix the problem.
Holy CRAP!!! So does anyone else have issues like this? Where you can just let it 'warm up' and then it runs well?
So I'm going on about 2 hours of sleep, and while my wife is at the store, you guessed it I'm playing some more DUO..\
LONG LIVE THE DUO!!!!!
Now with the above problems I posted above-(The #2 Problem) will the solution that D-lite posted fix that if it gets worse? Or should I go with the other fix that I saw in another thread about replacing the lense?
TurboSage
Title: TURBO DUO SOUND FIX!! (56k beware)
Post by: guyjin on September 09, 2006, 06:32:30 AM
The duo has 1337 self-healing skillz... 8)
Title: TURBO DUO SOUND FIX!! (56k beware)
Post by: grahf on September 09, 2006, 04:55:29 PM
turbo_sage, replacing the caps should fix it completely. Sometimes bad capacitors will start to work a little if you let them "warm up". For example on most of the TurboExpress and GT portables with the low sound issue, if you play for a while the sound level will gradually rise.
Unfortunatly its just common for capacitors that were manufactured during that era to be notoriously bad. Not just NEC consoles, but a LOT of other electronics (many many automotive ECUs for example).
Title: Re: TURBO DUO SOUND FIX!! (56k beware)
Post by: Platinumfungi on February 10, 2007, 04:13:27 AM
I realize this topic has not been active in quite awhile but I have the exact same audio issue with my Duo R. I have located caps C604 and C610 for replacement but I am not sure which other caps relate to the audio. If anyone can give me any input I'd really appreciate it. I can send a digital pic if needed. (or post the pic if someone can tell me how to)
Title: Re: TURBO DUO SOUND FIX!! (56k beware)
Post by: Michael Helgeson on February 10, 2007, 08:48:09 AM
If you feel completely up to it,when in doubt replace all old caps on the pcb. Good japanese caps manufactured these days are much more solid then the ones from early 90ies. Its more of a shotgun method but if the problem can be fixed by replacing the caps then replacing all of them is a sure fix,and in the process your buying your system more life with newer caps.
Title: Re: TURBO DUO SOUND FIX!! (56k beware)
Post by: Platinumfungi on February 10, 2007, 10:15:33 AM
True. I might just do that if replacing the two caps doesn't fix it completely. Is there any company/brand of caps that are of higher quality then others? I just bought mine at Radio Shack but if there are better ones then I'd gladly buy those.
Title: Re: TURBO DUO SOUND FIX!! (56k beware)
Post by: Michael Helgeson on February 10, 2007, 11:29:24 AM
The Radioshack ones are fine overall in quality. I never ran across a defective one when purchasing from there. But I tend to only buy 220uf caps there for Genesis s-video mods.
I think most of the caps they sell are manufactured by Xicon which is supposed to be reliable. As far as japanese caps go,you will know if they are made in Japan,they usually say Japan on them. Panasonic has a line of caps they sell under the TK series. They tend to be surface mount and are very reliable. I don't know if they will cover everything you need but I'm sure you can find them on Digikey somewhere.
Title: Re: TURBO DUO SOUND FIX!! (56k beware)
Post by: Platinumfungi on February 10, 2007, 02:25:06 PM
Excellent. Thanks for the info!
Title: Re: TURBO DUO SOUND FIX!! (56k beware)
Post by: Michael Helgeson on February 11, 2007, 10:35:03 AM
Let us know if it fixes your problem.
Title: Re: TURBO DUO SOUND FIX!! (56k beware)
Post by: raven1280 on February 27, 2007, 10:41:26 AM
I bought a duo from GUITARMAS that had the sound issues. I had to end up replacing all the caps on the board. Alot of them had leaked. Wasnt to hard to do. Now I have great audio from the cds!
Raven
Title: Re: TURBO DUO SOUND FIX!! (56k beware)
Post by: grahf on February 27, 2007, 06:45:16 PM
Its good to know people are taking the time to fix their Duos. Nice work.
Title: Re: TURBO DUO SOUND FIX!! (56k beware)
Post by: raven1280 on February 28, 2007, 04:18:05 AM
From what I can tell from my repair work theres another capacitor thats responsible for the audio coming from the cd. If you are looking at the board from the back by the power supply to the left there are two capacitors. One is 22uF 16v and the other is 47uF 6v. The 22uF is the one that is part of the audio capacitors. Im at work right now so I cant post any pictures.
Raven
Title: Re: TURBO DUO SOUND FIX!! (56k beware)
Post by: Tatsujin on March 03, 2007, 03:10:41 AM
Quote
2. audio is scratchy and may fade in and out, but the CD games load and play no problem (well, except for sound, duh)
i bought a DUO today and it shows exactly that issue as described above from you. i hate it, because i still can bring it back within a week but also need to go there again which takes 1 hour for one way. but the fix with the capacitors isn't a big issue for me anyway.
thanx a lot d-lite.
the sound via earphones is proper even i think the FX are a little bit to weak. does someone know that problem as well? :?
Title: Re: TURBO DUO SOUND FIX!! (56k beware)
Post by: Duo_R on March 04, 2007, 02:49:27 PM
Whatup Turbo Community! I just wanted to let you know that I followed this process and my Duo's sound now works! I have found the specific cap that fixed my CD sound. I will post more later.
D-Lite - How is it going buddy? Long time no talk!
Erik AKA Duo_R
http://www.geocities.com/duo_r@sbcglobal.net/
Title: Re: TURBO DUO SOUND FIX!! (56k beware)
Post by: astrodan88 on March 05, 2007, 05:18:29 AM
Hi all, I'm hoping someone could offer a little help. I recently acquired a Duo that is having sound problems. It's essentially what D-lite described as problem #1 (plays fine but no redbook audio from CDs). I just completed the mod D-lite described (replacing the 2 post-amp caps) hoping it would also solve my problem but unfortunately the audio is still gone. Someone else mentioned other capacitors relating to the CD audio. Has anyone else had this problem? Does anyone else know other caps to replace? Any assistance would be appreciated. Thanks in advance! astrodan
Title: Re: TURBO DUO SOUND FIX!! (56k beware)
Post by: nat on March 05, 2007, 05:32:18 AM
Astro Dan '88!!! For Astro Dan, the year is always 1988.
Title: Re: TURBO DUO SOUND FIX!! (56k beware)
Post by: nat on March 05, 2007, 05:35:09 AM
Actually, I think the general consensus is that if replacing the caps D-Lite described doesn't fix your issue then you might as well go ahead an replace all of them. It shouldn't take too long.
Something else you can try before that: clean the traces around where the suspect caps used to be. Use alcohol and a cotton swab. The nasty gunk those things leak is conductive and just the residuals can cause problems.
Title: Re: TURBO DUO SOUND FIX!! (56k beware)
Post by: raven1280 on March 05, 2007, 06:56:55 AM
Something else you can try before that: clean the traces around where the suspect caps used to be. Use alcohol and a cotton swab. The nasty gunk those things leak is conductive and just the residuals can cause problems.
Thats a very good thing to do before replacment.
Raven
Title: Re: TURBO DUO SOUND FIX!! (56k beware)
Post by: Duo_R on March 11, 2007, 10:40:15 AM
So I replaced the caps D-lite said to, but I still had some audio problems. The redbook audio was there, but the CD audio was very faint. I also had alot of static. So I started to replace some more caps. Raven mentioned another cap related to sound. I popped the cap and found this underneath:
you can also see the other caps I replaced. Here is an update to D-Lite's image to show all the cap values (since some people keep asking). I used the same uf values, but substituted 35v caps from Radio Shack. The cap I replaced that leaked will be easier to install by removing the metal shield for your Duo.
Title: Re: TURBO DUO SOUND FIX!! (56k beware)
Post by: geise on March 12, 2007, 05:03:07 AM
Thank you so much for posting your information. I replaced the two post op amp and pre amp caps, but didn't know what the other one was as well. Now that I know what you used I'll see if I can get those caps and see if that will work. Thanks again for the info! :)
Title: Re: TURBO DUO SOUND FIX!! (56k beware)
Post by: termis on March 12, 2007, 07:27:13 AM
Good info to have for sure. Thx
Title: Re: TURBO DUO SOUND FIX!! (56k beware)
Post by: Duo_R on March 12, 2007, 06:41:33 PM
No problem guys, all I did was just built on what D-Lite started.
Title: Re: TURBO DUO SOUND FIX!! (56k beware)
Post by: geise on April 16, 2007, 03:46:05 AM
First off I'm sorry to bump an old thread, but this is usually a thread that needs bumping. Second, I'd like to thank everyone for their info on getting sound to work on their Duo's. Yesterday I FINALL GOT THE SOUND ON MY DUO FIXED!!!!! It was so nice popping in Ys and having the intro music play again. I was having the problem of no cd audio playing what so ever, so I replaced the 10uf 16v caps D-Lite mentioned and still had no sound. Then Duo_R mentioned the other 22uf 16v caps he replaced with 35v caps and got his sound to work. Well after I replace the two 22uf 16v caps, BAM! Sound is now working again. Thanks again guys for all your help and info. Now if you'll excuse me it's time to rock out some Lords of Thunder! :twisted:
Title: Re: TURBO DUO SOUND FIX!! (56k beware)
Post by: Duo_R on April 18, 2007, 04:07:23 PM
YS was the first CD game I ever heard...I remember when I first popped it in and saw the intro. The music blew me away. Fifteen years later it wasn't as dramatic with little or no audio, but after this fix I again popped in YS and it was like watching it for the first time again. I was blown away to hear sound on my Duo again! YS is a good one to kick off the fixed audio!
Title: Re: TURBO DUO SOUND FIX!! (56k beware)
Post by: SNKNostalgia on April 24, 2007, 11:49:20 AM
Well, well, well!!! So I buy me a copy of Last Alert for my US Duo after not playing my system for almost a year it seems. Guess what happens after just 1 hour of game play. Fading sound from the CD audio. My Duo is practically new, I got it new in 2000 -01 or so from TZD.
Anyways, atleast I know I can fix it easily. What exact screwdriver do I need? Someone please link me to a legit site that sells for it for a decent price. Also, is it the right one to open Nintendo systems and carts? Much appreciated.
Title: Re: TURBO DUO SOUND FIX!! (56k beware)
Post by: geise on April 24, 2007, 01:47:36 PM
The screwdriver I used I bought from here http://www.ncsxshop.com/cgi-bin/shop/NUS-45MM.html They are a very legit company. Hope this helps.
Title: Re: TURBO DUO SOUND FIX!! (56k beware)
Post by: SNKNostalgia on April 25, 2007, 01:41:48 PM
I went ahead and bought the two different 4.5mm and the 3.8mm gamebits with a Nintendo full repair kit. It includes cart cleaning paste/solution, 72pin connector for the NES and some cloths. I got it from Nintendorepair.com. Cost me like $30.00 total. The cleaning paste is really good for removing the oxidation off any carts/Hucards.
Atleast I know my Duo will be running like new again after this. I swear this is like an epidemic with the Duo systems. Apparently all of them are destined to be doomed. I knew I should have gotten an R/RX or just added to my regular TG-16 I had for 17 years.
Title: Re: TURBO DUO SOUND FIX!! (56k beware)
Post by: klausien on May 14, 2007, 02:12:06 AM
First post on this forum!
Just needed to say THANK YOU D-LITE! You've saved my Duo and two TurboExpresses with your sound fix!
I noticed that my Duo was acting up while I was showing Fighting Street to a friend a few months ago. I don't play my Duo all that often, so I wrote it off. I went back to play it after acquiring ACD Strider last week, and the sound was acting like problem #2 to a tee. CD music cutting in and out, scratchy when it returns, before dropping out again.
I had previously done 2 TurboExpress repairs so, undaunted, I went and got the caps for the Duo. Worked like a charm!
I can't thank you enough! :)
Title: Re: TURBO DUO SOUND FIX!! (56k beware)
Post by: nodtveidt on May 17, 2007, 03:20:43 PM
The TurboDuo itself seems to be very prone to audio problems, it seems. Glad I own a briefcase. :) The drive might be slower and more prone to audio track cutout due to bumps but I've heard next to nothing about audio problems with the older setup.
The 4.5mm Gamebit seems to be the one that works with NEC's consoles. If I remember correctly, it should also open the Gamecube. I don't know offhand what uses the 3.8mm bit. Genesis carts seem to require a Gamebit as well.
Title: Re: TURBO DUO SOUND FIX!! (56k beware)
Post by: Platinumfungi on June 10, 2007, 10:56:20 AM
Are there any other capacitors that deal with the audio besides the four 10uF and the two 22uF mentioned ones? I have a PC Engine Duo that had the audio totally dropping out. I replaced the six capacitors and it's doing much better, but I'm still having some occasional drop out for a second or two and also volume fading at times. Any ideas? I see two more caps that I'll probably replace as they look problematic but I have no idea if they relate to audio or not...
I know I could just replace all the caps but I'd prefer to know which cap is causing the problem.
Title: Re: TURBO DUO SOUND FIX!! (56k beware)
Post by: SNKNostalgia on June 11, 2007, 01:46:58 AM
Read reply #2 that i made, maybe that will help as well. If all else fails, your still better off replacing them all than forking more money for a new system.
Title: Re: TURBO DUO SOUND FIX!! (56k beware)
Post by: Platinumfungi on June 11, 2007, 01:33:56 PM
I went ahead and replaced some more caps that looked like they had leaked or are in the general area of the audio caps. So far I've swapped out 10 caps. All games seem to be working pretty well now. Lords of Thunder still has occasional fading and a split second drop out from time to time :-k I guess I'll just start the shotgun method here pretty soon. I just don't understand why it seems to be specific games that have more problems then others...
Title: Re: TURBO DUO SOUND FIX!! (56k beware)
Post by: SNKNostalgia on June 11, 2007, 11:47:49 PM
Sounds like a combined lens problem. Also, if there are minor scratches on some discs, the duo still reads them funny since it has non existent error correction in the CD board. Can't hurt to order a Hop-m3 laser from the eletronix website. Think of it as a good future investment for your system.
Title: Re: TURBO DUO SOUND FIX!! (56k beware)
Post by: Platinumfungi on June 12, 2007, 11:12:26 AM
Thanks for the replies SNK. Now here's something odd. It seems like the system requires about 1.5 minutes for the background audio to kick in at all. Would that be just a further problem or could it be related to anything I have done? I've replaced all the caps that D-Lite mentions, and then the extra ones that Duo R (seems like his name was) mentioned along with a few that just looked like they had dried out.
I think in the end I'll probably get a new laser and replace ALL the caps on this one. I'm fixing it up for a friend and really want it to function properly.
Title: Re: TURBO DUO SOUND FIX!! (56k beware)
Post by: nat on July 25, 2007, 07:02:42 AM
I have an acient Japanese IFU-30 that is now suffering from #2 (from D-Lite's first post).
The IFU-30 is obviously very different from a Duo. I haven't taken it apart yet, but has anyone ever successfully used D-Lite's method to fix an IFU-30? I've never come across any mention of those decks having this kind of problem. And in my experience, these things have always been damn near bulletproof.
Title: Re: TURBO DUO SOUND FIX!! (56k beware)
Post by: D-Lite on July 25, 2007, 09:55:05 AM
I have an acient Japanese IFU-30 that is now suffering from #2 (from D-Lite's first post).
The IFU-30 is obviously very different from a Duo. I haven't taken it apart yet, but has anyone ever successfully used D-Lite's method to fix an IFU-30? I've never come across any mention of those decks having this kind of problem. And in my experience, these things have always been damn near bulletproof.
Never tried. My problem with the IFU-30 is frequently they just stop recognizing the CD unit altogether. As in, the light's on but no one's home.
Title: Re: TURBO DUO SOUND FIX!! (56k beware)
Post by: nat on July 25, 2007, 10:25:47 AM
I have an acient Japanese IFU-30 that is now suffering from #2 (from D-Lite's first post).
The IFU-30 is obviously very different from a Duo. I haven't taken it apart yet, but has anyone ever successfully used D-Lite's method to fix an IFU-30? I've never come across any mention of those decks having this kind of problem. And in my experience, these things have always been damn near bulletproof.
Never tried. My problem with the IFU-30 is frequently they just stop recognizing the CD unit altogether. As in, the light's on but no one's home.
Hmm... Never had that problem. Maybe I have incredible luck? No, can't be, since I've now got this sound issue with mine. The sound cuts in and out, sounds a bit scratchy sometimes, and has a varying volume level. Sounds like a cookie-cutter case of #2.
Anyone ever taken apart an IFU-30 before?
I suppose it wouldn't be too terribly difficult to figure out assuming the audio circuit is similar. If I can locate the Pre- and Post-Amp caps and just replace them I should be golden.
Title: Re: TURBO DUO SOUND FIX!! (56k beware)
Post by: SMC on August 02, 2007, 09:59:50 AM
Hey all, another Duo sound repair success story here. About a week ago my duo's cd audio went out while I was playing "Shape Shifter". I came to the forums going to ask for advice, because I thought it might be a common problem. After searching the forums for just a few seconds I happened on this thread. I replaced the four 10uf caps and the two 22uf ones and now everything is as good as new. It's funny I've done mods to just about every cd game system I have and it's still nerve wracking. Personally things seemed to work better for me if I just heated up the old caps and then gently worked the tops of the legs with a pair of pliers, then removed the plastic spacer and desoldered the legs. When I tried it the other way I wound up pulling a trace loose :shock: Anyway everything if fixed now and working great. I want to thank everyone for working out the problem for the rest of us. This thread deserves to be sticky.
Title: Re: TURBO DUO SOUND FIX!! (56k beware)
Post by: SMC on August 05, 2007, 12:39:12 PM
Now I'm mad. After coming on here and bragging about fixing my duo the cd audio went out on it again today (#1). Guess I'll start replacing more caps.
Title: Re: TURBO DUO SOUND FIX!! (56k beware)
Post by: SNKNostalgia on August 10, 2007, 01:29:32 PM
I just went ahead and order 2 laser replacements since it is easy and cheap to do. $18.95 per lens at $7.00 shipping. So it cost me $45.00 pretty much to get 2 lasers to last me many years of Duo playtime. The installation is simple:
Title: Re: TURBO DUO SOUND FIX!! (56k beware)
Post by: SMC on August 10, 2007, 05:48:39 PM
OK I can see why it might be in the laser. I'll look into it. Thanks.
Title: Re: TURBO DUO SOUND FIX!! (56k beware)
Post by: fabio on August 30, 2007, 01:50:05 PM
Hey Folks,
I replaced the six suggested caps on my duo and the system sound is very consistent now (it would go out after a while before). The CD audio is where I'm having the problem, though. It is very faint, all though if i turn the volume up, I can tell that it is being output at a consistent level. What do you think the most likely culprit is?
Thanks,
Fabio
Title: Re: TURBO DUO SOUND FIX!! (56k beware)
Post by: SNKNostalgia on August 31, 2007, 08:30:53 PM
Replace more silver small caps. Especially trying first with the ones to the right of the six you replaced.
Title: Re: TURBO DUO SOUND FIX!! (56k beware)
Post by: ceti alpha on October 02, 2007, 01:14:54 PM
I have the audio problem as well. The sound used to work after a little while, but the problem is just getting worse and worse. Not only that, but I was just playing Nexzr Special and after beating Stage 2 the game brought me back to the beginning of Stage 2 again. After beating Stage 2 for the second time it then skipped Stage 3 and brought me to Stage 4. I've never had any issues with the CD before. Hopefully that's just a fluke. :pray:
OK. Well it seems the sound issue is sensitive to touch. What I mean is if I move the Duo around a little sometimes the sound will come back or disappear. :-k
Title: Re: TURBO DUO SOUND FIX!! (56k beware)
Post by: Cleria on October 15, 2007, 05:34:37 AM
Hey nice work D-Lite.
Now I've got the sound problem myself where you play the game and the audio cuts out.
The thing is I'm way to scared to open up the console and do all that stuff. Is there a way to possibly clean the lens and stuff of the laser?
Title: Re: TURBO DUO SOUND FIX!! (56k beware)
Post by: Cleria on October 18, 2007, 05:27:43 AM
Gunna throw a few questions...reading 6 pages is a pain.
How do you open the case without destroying the console? Once you take the little doohickies out and put the new thingermagiggers in, the sound will / should be okay - will there be any other effects? I read that there will be heating or something? What else will go on?
Just a summary basically would be nice I suppose. :)
Title: Re: TURBO DUO SOUND FIX!! (56k beware)
Post by: chaoticjelly on October 18, 2007, 11:56:54 AM
Hey, I made a thread because I solved my PCE Duo's noisy laser problem, and the problem it had where it took a long time to "warm up" before reading CDs.
However in the process the sound through the TV speakers has been knocked out, for HuCards, Music CDs and CD games..
However the audio from the headphone port is perfect.
There was one extra cap on my revision of PCB that wasn't on the total capacitor replacement chart, so I guessed the value (22uF?) based on the values of those caps around it, however its not really that close to the main audio amp.
Anyone any ideas how I can diagnose the problem and regain the audio from the speakers?
All I changed was all the caps.. and 95% sure they are all correct values and orientation... UNLESS, I needed higher voltage ratings on the caps? anyone know what the original caps that surround the main amp are rated at?
Title: Re: TURBO DUO SOUND FIX!! (56k beware)
Post by: chaoticjelly on October 23, 2007, 03:17:43 PM
After a bit more buggering about I've found that the sound actually works perfectly. The reason it wasn't working was because whilst I replaced the caps, I replaced the AV socket for an 8 pin version. It seems that the pins for audio on the old AV cable dont connect properly.
So its working beautifully actually! Sweet :P
Title: Re: TURBO DUO SOUND FIX!! (56k beware)
Post by: Windytune on November 11, 2007, 03:33:24 AM
I just recently bought a PC Engine DUO, and the seller said that the adpcm sound does not work. He said it was the M5205 Oki type chip, so I purchased one, I was just wondering where this sucker goes, and how to put it in, could it be the capacitors as well?
Title: Re: TURBO DUO SOUND FIX!! (56k beware)
Post by: kokuryu on December 03, 2007, 05:51:47 AM
As many of you already know, I had recently gotten a PCE Duo that the CD sound and the ADPCM sound was not working. Over the weekend I did a ton of capacitor replacement work on the board.
Day 1: When trying to open the unit to take stock about what capacitors I would need to get, after I unscrewed the main cover, a capacitor literally rolled out of the case when I turned the unit upright to remove the top cover. I knew I was in trouble then! But I was also taking this as a good sign that replacing capacitors would be a good thing at this point... Never seen that before - a capacitor rolling out of a unit... :shock:
I took stock of the capacitors that I would need, and went to the local Radio Shack. I had to settle for a mixed bag for the type of capacitors - radial, non, polarized and non. :roll:
I took it slow and replaced the capacitors one by one in the area marked in many previous pictures as the audio amplifier area - and the capacitor that fell off - a 47uf cap near the front of the unit. I would literally replace one capacitor, then screw things back together and test to see if anything happened - good or bad. Unfortunately, I only had one 22uf cap and really needed more of those. I just took the time to replace some other caps in the nearby region of the audio amplifier area. I found that almost every cap I replaced had either gunky or power residue on the circuit board underneath everything. Another thing I found out - most of the 47uf and 22uf caps were counterfeit caps - probably why they failed and also dried out so badly. At the end of the first day, I had replaced all but 4 caps in the direct audio area, and really needed at least one 22uf cap to complete that area's replacements. :-({|=
Day 2: Back to Radio Shack - this one was much better stocked, and I was able to get a bunch of 22uf caps and also get a few more space saving versions of some of the other caps. :P My first job - finishing the replacement of the 4 remaining caps in the audio amp area. It was not until I replaced the very last cap in that area, a 47uf cap just above the 22uf cap that a previous poster changed that gave them their CD audio back, that the CD audio returned for me. That was great! :dance: Now I was even more determined than ever - I wanted the ADPCM sound too! I replaced all of the 22uf and 47uf caps on the board, replaced the caps next to and nearby the Oki chips on the board, and replaced a few of the larger caps by the headphone output area (I left the smaller 4.7uf caps in place - they seemed to be working). In the end, I replaced over 20 caps on the board. But no ADPCM sound... ](*,)
Day 3: I thought this was good enough for the moment. I only had 6 major caps and a dozen or so tiny minor caps to replace to actually finish a complete replacement. I decided to give one final thing a try - to leave it running for several hours and then see what happens. :pray: I left it on overnight, and the next morning gave it a try. Sure enough, Madou Monogatari did not freeze up in the dungeon anymore, and the special sound effects came out! :dance:
So in the end - one weekend's worth of cap replacements and testing is a complete success! I have a totally working PCE Duo! :clap:
Many thanks to all who came before me and shared their experiences too!
My own guess: I think it was the two 47uf caps near the front of the board that I replaced that did the trick for the ADPCM sound. Replacing one probably made a nearby crystal start to work properly, and the other probably finally provided the right ground needed for the components in that area - and I think the ADPCM requests filter through one or more of the chips in that area.
Title: Re: TURBO DUO SOUND FIX!! (56k beware)
Post by: Necromancer on December 03, 2007, 06:02:18 AM
@ kokuryu - Congrats on saving a Duo from the dust bin. :clap:
Title: Re: TURBO DUO SOUND FIX!! (56k beware)
Post by: nat on February 23, 2008, 10:01:27 AM
I seem to be the one guy on Earth with an Oct 1992 Duo and not a problem.
That Duo had the sound die today in the middle of a game of Spriggan 2. Sad, sad day. In the middle of a redbook sequence it just went "POP!" and then silence. The PSG sound still played.
I'm gonna do the cap replacement and see what happens.
EDIT: What the f*ck do I use to open this system? How many different kinds of screws can they come up with for these things? Seriously.
Title: Re: TURBO DUO SOUND FIX!! (56k beware)
Post by: ceti alpha on February 23, 2008, 11:57:15 AM
Quote
EDIT: What the f*ck do I use to open this system? How many different kinds of screws can they come up with for these things? Seriously.
I guess this is what you need. Though I'd be really surprised if you couldn't find these tool bits in a hardware store. :-k
Title: Re: TURBO DUO SOUND FIX!! (56k beware)
Post by: nat on February 23, 2008, 12:12:04 PM
That's not it.
That's the one that opens the TurboGrafx-16.
That's why I'm so surprised-- you would think it'd be the same. It's some kind of screw head I've never, ever seen before. It's like a Torx socket that has a pin directly in the center.
Title: Re: TURBO DUO SOUND FIX!! (56k beware)
Post by: spenoza on February 23, 2008, 03:13:53 PM
That's a security torx. They're a bitch to find.
Title: Re: TURBO DUO SOUND FIX!! (56k beware)
Post by: Necromancer on February 23, 2008, 04:43:18 PM
That's why I'm so surprised-- you would think it'd be the same. It's some kind of screw head I've never, ever seen before. It's like a Torx socket that has a pin directly in the center.
Buy this set (http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=91310) and you'll be able to open all sorts of shit. If you want to wait a while, sign up for mailings and wait for one of their free shipping offers.
P.S. - You must have a PCE Duo, since my US Duo uses the goofy gamebit screws.
Title: Re: TURBO DUO SOUND FIX!! (56k beware)
Post by: ceti alpha on February 23, 2008, 05:05:32 PM
Quote
That's not it.
That's the one that opens the TurboGrafx-16.
That's why I'm so surprised-- you would think it'd be the same. It's some kind of screw head I've never, ever seen before. It's like a Torx socket that has a pin directly in the center.
Dang. Yeah, I had my doubts those were the right bits for the simple reason you were even asking. Why did they have to make the US Duo with all kinds of odd connections and screws? ](*,)
Title: Re: TURBO DUO SOUND FIX!! (56k beware)
Post by: nat on February 23, 2008, 06:40:04 PM
That's why I'm so surprised-- you would think it'd be the same. It's some kind of screw head I've never, ever seen before. It's like a Torx socket that has a pin directly in the center.
Buy this set (http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=91310) and you'll be able to open all sorts of shit. If you want to wait a while, sign up for mailings and wait for one of their free shipping offers.
Holy shit, thanks for that. There is a HarborFrieght right down the street from my house. I go there all the time! I bet they have that set in-store.
Quote
P.S. - You must have a PCE Duo, since my US Duo uses the goofy gamebit screws.
Nope, October 1992 full-blooded American Duo.
Title: Re: TURBO DUO SOUND FIX!! (56k beware)
Post by: guyjin on February 23, 2008, 06:59:56 PM
Buy this set (http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=91310) and you'll be able to open all sorts of shit. If you want to wait a while, sign up for mailings and wait for one of their free shipping offers.
bookmarked.
Title: Re: TURBO DUO SOUND FIX!! (56k beware)
Post by: Turbo D on February 23, 2008, 07:28:19 PM
wow, thats a great deal. I'll have to grab one next time I'm down at HF.
Title: Re: TURBO DUO SOUND FIX!! (56k beware)
Post by: Necromancer on February 24, 2008, 08:05:18 AM
That's why I'm so surprised-- you would think it'd be the same. It's some kind of screw head I've never, ever seen before. It's like a Torx socket that has a pin directly in the center.
Oh, hey, is that the US Duo I sold you? I swapped the secure screws out of it with the ones in my Duo R.
I did this because I only have one set of secure Torx bits and I leave them at work (where as I always have my game bit at home) and I need to open the Duo R once in a while.
Title: Re: TURBO DUO SOUND FIX!! (56k beware)
Post by: Necromancer on February 24, 2008, 11:30:41 AM
Mystery solved! I should've guessed something like that, since the simplest answer is usually correct.
Title: Re: TURBO DUO SOUND FIX!! (56k beware)
Post by: nat on February 24, 2008, 12:42:10 PM
That's why I'm so surprised-- you would think it'd be the same. It's some kind of screw head I've never, ever seen before. It's like a Torx socket that has a pin directly in the center.
Oh, hey, is that the US Duo I sold you? I swapped the secure screws out of it with the ones in my Duo R.
I did this because I only have one set of secure Torx bits and I leave them at work (where as I always have my game bit at home) and I need to open the Duo R once in a while.
Yeah that's the one. Well, that explains it then.
Title: Re: TURBO DUO SOUND FIX!! (56k beware)
Post by: nat on February 25, 2008, 04:03:39 PM
The Duo lives! Another one saved from the scrapheap.
I did the cap replacement and the audio seems to sustain itself at a constant level. No scratchiness. I didn't play for long, only 5 minutes or so due to time constraints but I'll give it a good run after work tomorrow. Hopefully it won't pull the fade-in fade-out game with me after extended play. That'll be the real test.
Thanks again Necromancer for pointing out that bit set, I stopped by my local Harbor Freight after work and they had exactly one of those sets left. Unfortunately, that $4.99 sale was an exclusive web-only offer. So the guy met me halfway and sold it to me for $7.99 ($12.99 normal retail).
While I was in there I also adjusted the laser which has been giving me the singing treatment lately (no gameplay problems yet, but I hear the singing isn't a good sign). I adjusted 90 degrees counterclockwise and she purrs like a kitten again.
Title: Re: TURBO DUO SOUND FIX!! (56k beware)
Post by: Necromancer on February 25, 2008, 04:34:30 PM
Good to hear that you got her back to five by five. I really need to crack mine open and resolder the a/v port, as I'm getting mighty tired of wiggling the damn cable. Why, oh why did those cheap bastards do such a crappy job on that thing?
Title: Re: TURBO DUO SOUND FIX!! (56k beware)
Post by: ceti alpha on February 26, 2008, 08:58:21 AM
Quote
The Duo lives! Another one saved from the scrapheap.
Woot! Well done nat! :clap:
Quote
While I was in there I also adjusted the laser which has been giving me the singing treatment lately (no gameplay problems yet, but I hear the singing isn't a good sign). I adjusted 90 degrees counterclockwise and she purrs like a kitten again.
What's this "singing" sound like? I'm guessing it doesn't sound as pretty as the term suggests. :wink:
Quote
Good to hear that you got her back to five by five. I really need to crack mine open and resolder the a/v port, as I'm getting mighty tired of wiggling the damn cable. Why, oh why did those cheap bastards do such a crappy job on that thing?
I agree. [-X To make one of the most sleek and beautiful console designs ever, but go cheap on some key things just doesn't make sense. I guess that's why we got so many freebies with the system when it came out. lol :roll:
Title: Re: TURBO DUO SOUND FIX!! (56k beware)
Post by: nat on February 26, 2008, 09:47:45 AM
While I was in there I also adjusted the laser which has been giving me the singing treatment lately (no gameplay problems yet, but I hear the singing isn't a good sign). I adjusted 90 degrees counterclockwise and she purrs like a kitten again.
What's this "singing" sound like? I'm guessing it doesn't sound as pretty as the term suggests. :wink:
It doesn't sound as bad as you're probably thinking. It's a very high pitched (but quiet) consistent "whine" whenever the CD-ROM is active. The whine comes from the laser itself, not the speakers. It's easily ignorable, but apparently the general feeling is a laser emitting this tone is headed south and needs to be tuned. Ignoring this warning sign apparently often ends in a dead laser.
Title: Re: TURBO DUO SOUND FIX!! (56k beware)
Post by: Ravij on March 09, 2008, 01:37:43 AM
Hi - I just tried changing the two 10 uF Caps (post op-amp), but it didn't fix my issue. The problem I have is that there's no (or very quiet) CD Audio for the first 3 or 4 mins that the Duo is turned on. Then all of a sudden it will work fine and keep working, so it isn't a major problem, but definitely one I'd like to fix!
Anyone had a similar issue and found which caps to change? I realise I could just change the lot, but I'm not sure I have the willpower to change more than a couple at a time! ](*,)
Title: Re: TURBO DUO SOUND FIX!! (56k beware)
Post by: ceti alpha on March 09, 2008, 05:02:43 AM
Quote
The problem I have is that there's no (or very quiet) CD Audio for the first 3 or 4 mins that the Duo is turned on. Then all of a sudden it will work fine and keep working, so it isn't a major problem, but definitely one I'd like to fix!
That's exactly how my audio issue started. When I first got my Duo there would be no sound (or very quiet like you said) for the first few minutes, and then would kick in after 5 minutes give or take. Your audio may never get any worse, but I'm guessing it will. In any case, it's thankfully not a big deal and totally fixable. :)
Title: Re: TURBO DUO SOUND FIX!! (56k beware)
Post by: Ravij on March 09, 2008, 07:08:09 AM
it's thankfully not a big deal and totally fixable. :)
Did you fix it yourself? If you know what caps got changed, that would be very helpful!
thanks, Ravi
Title: Re: TURBO DUO SOUND FIX!! (56k beware)
Post by: ceti alpha on March 09, 2008, 09:50:32 AM
Quote
Did you fix it yourself? If you know what caps got changed, that would be very helpful!
Unfortunately not - I sent my Duo to D-Lite to get fixed. I'm getting it modded as well, so there was really no point in trying fix the audio issue myself. But I'm sure someone here will be able to help you more. :) Sorry I couldn't be more help. I know all too well how frustrating the sound issue is.
Title: Re: TURBO DUO SOUND FIX!! (56k beware)
Post by: Nintega Turbine Trio-CBS on March 24, 2008, 01:51:04 PM
Oh damn. I just bought a black Japanese PC Engine Duo from ebay last night. I hope my system works fine. :pray:
Title: Re: TURBO DUO SOUND FIX!! (56k beware)
Post by: CkRtech on April 19, 2008, 05:51:54 PM
This thread has been a great resource. Thank you to all that contributed. It made repairing the sound issues with my Duo seem like child's play.
For the record, I replace the main caps mentioned in the images earlier in the page, but those weren't enough. As a general rule of thumb, it is probably a good idea to replace all your caps in that amp area - this has been mentioned before, but I just wanted to repeat it. That said, I'll give you the extra details on my issue.
I was experiencing somewhat crackling audio of the CD playback during the first minute or two of gameplay. It would clear up after that & seem just fine. In addition to the caps mentioned earlier in this page, I replace four other caps:
100 uf 10V 220 uf 16V 470 uf 16V 1000 uf 16V
Each were replaced with Radio Shack caps (I believe they're all 35V). The early crackle went away, and it seems like I had a much wider frequency range of playback (i.e. bass was much clearer). I have marked those caps on the "cap map." I hope those that created this image don't mind my modification:
(http://pic.photobucket.com/bwe.png)
Title: Re: TURBO DUO SOUND FIX!! (56k beware)
Post by: nat on April 19, 2008, 08:25:58 PM
That's curious about the 1000uf cap needing to be replaced. That type of cap isn't prone to leakage or failure.... Are you sure it was necessary in your case, or were you just covering all your bases?
Speaking of the sound issues, I recently discovered a cap elsewhere on the mainboard outside of the op-amp cluster is directly linked to certain sound issues. Specifically, if you are having problems with all of the following: ADPCM sample playback, PSG, and redbook. The cap in question wasn't previously known to be part of the audio circuit at all and I have a feeling is the culprit in the cases where replacing all that caps in that circled area and to the right of the circled area don't fix the problem.
You have to remove the FCC shielding to even see this cap. It's kind of in the middle of the board, out in no man's land by itself. Like the component I discovered to be responsible for video failure on the TurboExpress, this is another innocuous little guy you'd never suspect. I'll post a picture up in the next couple of days that shows where to find the little rascal.
Title: Re: TURBO DUO SOUND FIX!! (56k beware)
Post by: CkRtech on April 19, 2008, 08:52:37 PM
Hey nat -
No. I just grabbed all the caps in the area just to be on the safe side. The only ones Radio Shack didn't carry were the 330uf (x 2) that are not labeled in the picture. ....plus I just got a new soldering station & was dying to try it out. 8)
Title: Re: TURBO DUO SOUND FIX!! (56k beware)
Post by: Duo_R on August 29, 2008, 08:33:50 PM
Anyone have the other cap values mapped out on the board? My good fortune didn't last forever, the sound eventually went out again. I looked at the other caps on the board today and noticed some that didn't look good. However, I am very confused with some of these values:
22 6a 25m
100 6s 25a
I take it that these are 22uf and 100uf caps, but what the hell do the the other codes mean? What is the voltage for these? I have a personal friend who is a electrical engineer and warned me about going too high on the voltages of the caps that I replace with so I wanted to match these up.
Title: Re: TURBO DUO SOUND FIX!! (56k beware)
Post by: Duo_R on August 31, 2008, 10:00:08 AM
never mind - I found the full list of specs for the caps. Update - I replaced some more and now my Duo seams to be doing better (for the moment). After about 30 second warmup the sound is decent. There is a little scratchy fade in sometimes, but the longer the system is on the better (so suspicious that there is another bad cap). I placed an order for some more caps, so will just keep replacing...but I installed a Blue LED!!!
Title: Re: TURBO DUO SOUND FIX!! (56k beware)
Post by: Duo_R on September 02, 2008, 01:43:13 AM
That's curious about the 1000uf cap needing to be replaced. That type of cap isn't prone to leakage or failure.... Are you sure it was necessary in your case, or were you just covering all your bases?
Speaking of the sound issues, I recently discovered a cap elsewhere on the mainboard outside of the op-amp cluster is directly linked to certain sound issues. Specifically, if you are having problems with all of the following: ADPCM sample playback, PSG, and redbook. The cap in question wasn't previously known to be part of the audio circuit at all and I have a feeling is the culprit in the cases where replacing all that caps in that circled area and to the right of the circled area don't fix the problem.
You have to remove the FCC shielding to even see this cap. It's kind of in the middle of the board, out in no man's land by itself. Like the component I discovered to be responsible for video failure on the TurboExpress, this is another innocuous little guy you'd never suspect. I'll post a picture up in the next couple of days that shows where to find the little rascal.
Title: Re: TURBO DUO SOUND FIX!! (56k beware)
Post by: Redfield1 on September 05, 2008, 03:19:49 AM
Title: Re: TURBO DUO SOUND FIX!! (56k beware)
Post by: Duo_R on September 15, 2008, 01:04:22 PM
Update - how is the sound fix working? I am nearing full replacement of the entire caps. I got full sound, but an intermittent scratch sound. Funny thing is the scratch get's better and better, then I replace another cap and it gets worse. We will see how things go after full replacement.
:evil:
Title: Re: TURBO DUO SOUND FIX!! (56k beware)
Post by: oldschoolgamer1989 on September 16, 2008, 01:16:19 PM
Will 10 uf 35 v caps work?
Title: Re: TURBO DUO SOUND FIX!! (56k beware)
Post by: Duo_R on September 17, 2008, 08:27:44 PM
that diagram he has is showing the cap values he used, but 10uf 35v would work fine. The value of the caps could be between 10uf 16v - 10uf 35v (i personally wouldn't go higher).
Title: Re: TURBO DUO SOUND FIX!! (56k beware)
Post by: oldschoolgamer1989 on September 18, 2008, 08:50:16 AM
Thanks for the tip!!
Title: Re: TURBO DUO SOUND FIX!! (56k beware)
Post by: oldschoolgamer1989 on September 18, 2008, 10:25:58 AM
Replaced the first 2 caps today and still no music. Which ones should i look at next?
Title: Re: TURBO DUO SOUND FIX!! (56k beware)
Post by: oldschoolgamer1989 on September 18, 2008, 10:27:27 AM
Just a note: After leaving the unit on for about 10-15 mins. The music finally starts playing. what next?
Title: Re: TURBO DUO SOUND FIX!! (56k beware)
Post by: Duo_R on September 18, 2008, 04:04:39 PM
BREAKING NEWS EVERYONE: THE LARGE CAPS CAN GO BAD!!!
Take a look at what I found today (note - you can see the leaking marks on these little bastards): (http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/8002/downsized0918081951bjw9.html)
This was the 1000uf 16v, and the 470uf 16v (the one that was next to the 1000uf). The 470uf was fine the other side of the heatshields, but I replaced anyways. These caps are so close to the heat sinks I should have suspected. Instead some said they weren't usually a problem so I didn't bother. Now the replacements - the original caps are rated up to 85 degrees Celsius, but everything I am replacing with is up to 105 degrees Celsius (that's 221 Fahrenheit , so my Duo would be melting before these suckers break down).
Update on sound issue - the scratch sound is very minimized, and doesn't happen very much now. Maybe like a little sound every few minutes. I am going to check a few more caps. The only caps I haven't replaced in the sound (pre and post amp) area is two 330 caps. I am also going to check the 470uf cap near the power switch (although it might not be related to sound). Everything is a suspect at this point....
Oldschool - after replacing a sound cap I too noticed no sound (it is usually for like a minute or two) then the sound comes on. If it only happens once and then it is fine, it was just the cap charging (they are empty). Now if it still fades in and out, then you still have a bad sound cap somewhere.
Title: Re: TURBO DUO SOUND FIX!! (56k beware)
Post by: oldschoolgamer1989 on September 18, 2008, 04:59:03 PM
Thanks again! I'll run it again and see what happens. If it still fails, which ones do i need to replace and with what value? I'll need the uf and v ratings for each so i'll know what to pick up.
Title: Re: TURBO DUO SOUND FIX!! (56k beware)
Post by: Duo_R on September 18, 2008, 05:11:19 PM
the bigger caps are marked with V, the smaller ones just use between 16-35v
check the other diagram for the values of everything. All the radial style caps, including the 1000uf, the 330uf, the 470uf, etc. And the smaller SMD that are near the heatsinks. The two caps that are on the other side of the heatsinks were fine on my Duo, but I would still be suspicious because of how close they are to the heatsinks.
Title: Re: TURBO DUO SOUND FIX!! (56k beware)
Post by: markeggertsen on September 18, 2008, 08:06:34 PM
Hey D-Lite --
Are you taking orders for Duo fixes? My Duo has virtually NO sound, but if you turn the volume on your TV all the way up, you can hear all the sound VERY faintly. It was working fine just a week ago!
Thanks!
markeggertsen@gmail.com
Title: Re: TURBO DUO SOUND FIX!! (56k beware)
Post by: Duo_R on September 18, 2008, 08:14:46 PM
uhhh....dlite hasn't been on the boards for months. Long story.
Title: Re: TURBO DUO SOUND FIX!! (56k beware)
Post by: oldschoolgamer1989 on September 19, 2008, 06:39:53 PM
Thank you Duo_R!! You are the man! Changed all the ones you mentioned and the sound is back in full soon as it comes on. Everythings normal now. Also, special thanks to D-Lite for starting this post and leading us in the right direction. Without you guys, i don't think i would have ever figured this out. :dance:
Title: Re: TURBO DUO SOUND FIX!! (56k beware)
Post by: somery on October 31, 2008, 12:31:19 PM
Hi everyone. I signed up for the pcenginefx.com boards just to make this post. I wanted to thank everyone (especially d-lite, Duo-R and nat) for their hard work and many hours spent fiddling around inside their Turbo Duos. Because of their efforts, and this thread specifically, I've managed to fix the audio in my Turbo Duo all by my lonesome!
Now, I've played around with circuit-bending cheap Casio keyboards before, but that's all the experience with soldering I've ever had before now - and it was pretty shitty quality. (If I fried one, no big whoop. It was only a dollar at the thrift store!) However, when the sound in my Duo went out, I decided to get a little more serious because I was going to do this myself, dammit! I've never opened up a console before, let alone ripped out capacitors and soldered new ones in, so it was a little daunting at first. Nevertheless, I ordered the 4.5mm gamebit, hit up the local Radio Shack, rolled up my sleeves and got to work.
In the interest of science (heh) and to add, however insignificantly, to the general base of knowledge, here's how the whole thing went down. I should mention the circumstances. My Duo is a September 1992 model that I got off eBay (no, not from GameSquadStore! =;) a few months ago. It played beautifully up until last week when the sound went scratchy (ADPCM and CD audio) and eventually went out altogether.
I also feel I should mention, maybe just for myself, that I got the TG-CD for Christmas the year it first came out. Yeah, the one that was 400 freakin' dollars and came with a CD+G disc with Jimi Hendrix's "Purple Haze" and Little Feat's "Representing the Mambo" and maybe some other songs. (Incidentally, I never hear this CD+G disc mentioned on the interwebs.) God bless my mom for that. Anyway, I still have the TG16 itself (with stickers all over it), but have long since lost all the CD hardware.
ANYWAY......
Day 1: The gamebit finally came in (actually it only took three days to get here), so I went to Radio Shack and bought two 10uF capacitors, hoping that replacing the two "post op-amp" caps would do the trick. Performed the very first desoldering job of my life, put in the new caps, put the system back together and tried it. Nothing. I should note that neither of these caps had leaked. Cried myself to sleep. (Not really.)
Day 2a: Decided to go ahead and replace the three "pre amp" caps. Bought two 10uF and two 22uF caps (just to have an extra). Cracked her open again and replaced the three caps. This time, the original 22uF cap did have leaky electrolytic goop under it. I cleaned it up with some isopropyl alcohol before soldering the new one on. Put her back together and tried it. Now I had ADPCM sound, but no CD audio. At least now I knew I was doing something right.
Day 2b: Came back again to this very thread to see where to go now. Came upon Duo-R's post about the other 22uF cap that Raven had mentioned and decided to have a go at it since I had a spare 22uF cap. Lo and behold, it had leaked as well. Cleaned it up, replaced it, and crossed my fingers that it would do the trick. I really don't have enough confidence in my skills (or time) to perform a complete cap replacement, so it had to do the trick! It just had to, dammit! Well, the Turbo Gods smiled down upon me that night (last night, actually) because this time all of the sound worked. Crystal clear and kick ass! Of course, Lords of Thunder was the tester CD. :dance:
So I just wanted to say thanks, guys. I've tried a bunch of other games on it since last night and it's still doing great. Thanks to this thread and the people in it, another Duo was saved from the scrap heap and I got a little console repair experience under my belt. Good show, everyone! :clap:
Title: Re: TURBO DUO SOUND FIX!! (56k beware)
Post by: Duo_R on October 31, 2008, 12:46:34 PM
Another Duo saved. If I could do it all over I would have done a cap removal, dishwashed the PCB, dry for 2 days, and then do cap replacement. Congrats!!! :clap:
Title: Re: TURBO DUO SOUND FIX!! (56k beware)
Post by: MarsPants on October 31, 2008, 02:16:25 PM
Hey! This is an awesome thread. I've wanted to fix my Turbo Duo for awhile now but I still can't seem to get some things in order. I've gotten most of the equipment but I'm still confused about the capacitors because I don't know much about them and I don't want to break anything. In Canada we don't have RadioShack anymore so it's a pain to find anything. Any info on what to get and how to get it would be awesome.
Also I would love to see someone who really knows this stuff to maybe put together a little step by step guide? This thread is such a great mine for information but it would be great to see it focused and cleaned into something easier to follow. Things like dis assembly, advice on what capacitors to start, and tips on the capacitor soldering. It's all here but I'm absolutely terrible at filling in blanks. I'm always so paranoid about doing something wrong, I'm sure plenty of people could relate. Maybe asking too much, but just an idea.
Anyway, any help would be very appreciated! I'm dieing to play with sound again.
Title: Re: TURBO DUO SOUND FIX!! (56k beware)
Post by: Duo_R on October 31, 2008, 06:16:04 PM
Mars - I would do a guide but it is really straightforward. There is already a laser repair guide and that covers removing the case, etc.
http://www.robotpanic.com/?p=59
You will want to remove the metal sheild, desolder iron comes in handy. You will disconnect a wire from the power board, and the couple connectores near the laser and the screw that holds the ground wire. Remove about 4 screws holding the PCB, and then you can remove and work with just the board. This came in handy for me since I desoldered underneath the PCB to remove the caps. For surface mount caps I used a "lift technique" where I heated up one end of the SM cap and used a jewelers flathead to carefully lift up the cap. Then did the same on the other side. You remove the caps, and replace. Maybe a full guide later but if you read through this thread you will have all the information you need. I could understand more if this thing was 20 pages, but really it won't take you long to get what you need.
Title: Re: TURBO DUO SOUND FIX!! (56k beware)
Post by: MarsPants on November 01, 2008, 02:29:43 AM
Thanks for the quick reply! These pictures are great, it gives me a little more idea what I'm doing. The info is good too, I'll have to practice some more before I try to pull it off though. Thanks!
Title: Re: TURBO DUO SOUND FIX!! (56k beware)
Post by: Duo_R on November 01, 2008, 09:21:37 AM
find some old electronics that you can practice removing caps, and then replacing. You will want to get this down since you get 1 shot with your system. You want to be careful not to lift off the solder pad from the board (can happen if you try to just break a cap off, etc). I replaced about 50 caps on my Duo and it turned out to be just fine. I believe it really is only the pre/post amp caps you need to replace, but in my situation I had a scratch sound that wouldn't go away. Not knowing what was causing the intermittent sound issue I just get replacing caps. Nat eventually advised of a dishwash which took care of my scratch sound (and if you read the posts in this forum you will follow my progress). Now sound works, and absolutely no scratch sound (cutting in and out). I am certain that I had some cap residue screwing with my sound and that is now fixed.
Title: Re: TURBO DUO SOUND FIX!! (56k beware)
Post by: agt_dale_cooper on November 07, 2008, 10:32:50 AM
That's curious about the 1000uf cap needing to be replaced. That type of cap isn't prone to leakage or failure.... Are you sure it was necessary in your case, or were you just covering all your bases?
Speaking of the sound issues, I recently discovered a cap elsewhere on the mainboard outside of the op-amp cluster is directly linked to certain sound issues. Specifically, if you are having problems with all of the following: ADPCM sample playback, PSG, and redbook. The cap in question wasn't previously known to be part of the audio circuit at all and I have a feeling is the culprit in the cases where replacing all that caps in that circled area and to the right of the circled area don't fix the problem.
You have to remove the FCC shielding to even see this cap. It's kind of in the middle of the board, out in no man's land by itself. Like the component I discovered to be responsible for video failure on the TurboExpress, this is another innocuous little guy you'd never suspect. I'll post a picture up in the next couple of days that shows where to find the little rascal.
Hello, Diane, agt_dale_cooper here, still waiting to hear the outcome of this post quoted above....meanwhile, enjoying some damn fine coffee here in Twin Peaks. Waiting for caps to show up from Parts Express, mentioned by PC_ENGINE HELL in reply #40. SUPER cheap caps, more than reasonable USPS shipping as well. Bought a Japanese Turbo Duo from George on the Turbo List, NO audio output whatsoever. Popped the top, C301 (1000uF, 16V) was obviously damaged/leaking, but no other apparent damage. To date, have replaced C301 (1000uF, 16V, rated to 105'C., Fry's P/N 1005343, NTE VHT1000M16, $1.90) and C616 (22uF, 16V, rated to 105'C., Fry's P/N 1005493, NTE VHT22M16, $0.88), but have no audio-related love from the machine yet. Have not bothered with pre/post op caps yet, decided to wait for Parts Express rather than pay Radio Shit $1.20/piece. Will continue posting methodology and part numbers used, will also comment them on the Parts Express site. Expense report forthcoming, Diane, not to worry! Looking forward to Agt. Nat's posting...thanks! [how come there's no coffee-drinking smiley?]
Title: Re: TURBO DUO SOUND FIX!! (56k beware)
Post by: agt_dale_cooper on November 08, 2008, 11:52:09 AM
OK, success! Caps finally showed up today from Parts Express, so I went to town on the thing. First pull: 22uF, 16V at C323. Result: no audio love. In looking to pull the next victim, noticed that there was an important difference between all the pics and my board: C615 was MISSING! (Duh, first rule of TG16 repair, insure all the shit is THERE!!! Cap did NOT fall out when I opened it like reply 83, though, so it didn't occur to me to look..) So, off I went to my bag-o-caps, only to discover that the 47uF, 16V was NOT a size I ordered. Soooo, I threw in a 100uF, and lo and behold, some audio showed up, albeit very faint. Encouraged, I replaced C604, C610, C614 and C613 as original post suggests, and WHAM! out rolls some nice Lords Of Thunder!!! Woohoo!!! Questions for anybody: I've heard different types of audio terms being bandied about: ADPCM, Redbook, etc....how do they all pertain here? Is PCM generated by the game code / Redbook is pulled off CD? Haven't I heard a third term used? Haven't seen any ill effects from using the 100 as opposed to the 47....anybody tracing these circuits? Are we gonna end up with LOUDER audio like Agt. Nat did using 47uF caps instead of 33uF caps in his TG16 Express audio fix? Thoughts, anyone? [Doesn't sound any different than my working USA Duo, but I suppose it's possible....may try altering the post op amps with higher uF units] Methodology used: 1) Pull caps using needlenose and back-and-forth rocking motion. Don't really pull, you don't want to lift the pads these things are sitting on...just trying to snap the existing joint. Also, there are fuses attached to the bottom of the board at these points, don't really want to use excess heat. 2) Buy caps from Parts Express. Pray that USPS delivers them quicker than they did mine. Thanks again PCEH for a great supplier...much easier to look through than Mouser or Digi-Key, IMO. Pictures are worth their weight in gold when replacing stuff. 3) Prep pads by tinning, using flux pen beforehand if you've got one. 4) Bend leads of caps into ][ style shape, where top is inside cap, length of vertical = length of horizontal foot. 5) Tin ends of caps 6) Use tweezers to hold cap in rough position, use end of soldering iron to link tinning on pads to tinning on caps. If well tinned, should flow right together.
Bottom line, seems replacing C615 fixed the #1 case, no audio, as I'd only replaced C301, C616 and C323 before realizing C615 was missing, and got no audio out of replacing those three. Got no audio? Why not start with C615? Perhaps this can act as a sight on the 'shotgun'....hee.
[Still waiting for Liar smiley #2 to be replaced by Hot Coffee Drinking Smiley...] agt_dale_cooper
Title: Re: TURBO DUO SOUND FIX!! (56k beware)
Post by: Duo_R on November 08, 2008, 12:45:35 PM
I would replace the 100 with a 47 although it shouldn't hurt. Just based ont the fact that the Turbo designers chose that cap for a reason. 47's aren't uncommon at all. Just pony up at RatShack, they always have that size (unless you have a reason to make another online order).
Title: Re: TURBO DUO SOUND FIX!! (56k beware)
Post by: agt_dale_cooper on November 19, 2008, 11:40:04 AM
RRRRR....lost sound again, right back to where I started (CD sound is VERY VERY faint). Gonna pull C615, replace with 47uF instead of the 100uF, HOPE that this 100uF has freaked out it's neighbors and they don't want to work anymore. Will pull/replace all previously installed audio-related caps, hoping again that somebody has blown...makes a bit of sense, really, but I think I'm grasping at straws...we'll see, will post findings.
Title: Re: TURBO DUO SOUND FIX!! (56k beware)
Post by: agt_dale_cooper on November 19, 2008, 03:19:13 PM
Wow, nothing. Pulled all previously installed per Nat's suggestion (I too enjoy the notion of a clean slate...), reinstalled all to no avail. Did the 47s up by the LED, did the 47 that somebody said isn't part of the audio circuit, C312. Ran the thing with the top off, used eraser at end of pencil to manually shake all installed caps to test for crappy joints (in theory, this should sound porpoise up and down if you've got a crappy joint, right?) Audio is there, it's just painfully faint. HuCards work fine, in game button mashing sounds are there as well, it's just the CD audio.
Nat, where is this mystery capacitor mentioned a couple times by Erik and I? Could this be my issue? I was supposed to ship this thing today after installing region switch, and as luck would have it, audio has disappeared.....frigging switch install was easier than sorting this &^%^%$ audio issue!!!!!! HAHAHA!!!
On a humorous note, the timestamp on my mod of that switch document says 04-19-03....been a while since I've done that mod, but it still works famously... (and yes, Twin Peaks STILL rules!) For whatever it's worth, that document is directly applicable to the JAPANESE consoles, as the pins are simply a mirror image of one another...[not sure whether this Pin 29 business is required or not, but I did it anyway....reminded me of the PSX days...]
Anybody know how to test caps in the circuit / while the thing is powered? A brief outline, if anybody does, might be helpful....gonna Google, see what it says, I've had it up to HERE with this (*&&^% audio issue. I WILL fix this thing. :evil:
Title: Re: TURBO DUO SOUND FIX!! (56k beware)
Post by: agt_dale_cooper on November 20, 2008, 01:05:43 PM
Wow, have spent literally ALL DAY trying to repair this thing. Here's what I tried: 1) switched lasers between my US and Jap units. No dice, wouldn't read the CD, as wiring in middle connection isn't the same between the two, didn't feel like pulling and rewiring the pins. 2) Pulled/installed fresh/tested caps all day, testing for both Redbook (CD Audio) and ADPCM (system generated snippets like the voice in Gate Of Thunder (J) ). Installed fresh caps in all spots but: C961, 962 (near power switch), C512, 515, 517, 519, 523 (above and near HuCard slot), C105, 110, 122, 133, 164, 200, 201, 202 (in between CDROM unit and front of machine). All other caps I replaced, tested with GOT, got nowhere except severely irritated with the loud buzzing where the voice in GOT is supposed to be. Sort of like having the buzzer from Family Feud go off like 3000 times today... 3) Discovered that Pin 29 grounding for Japanese switch install is indeed required. WSOD without it when trying to play USA games. [tried pulling this, as it was the only thing that had electrically changed since I got the thing to play audio the other day....]
Now I'm literally out of caps, gonna get some more from PE...this project is HUNG for a couple of days while they're in transit, then.....urgh.
Next project is prolly gonna be to tear down my fully working USA Duo cap by cap, try to isolate what caps are responsible for which audio...pull cap, test, record comments, continue...that'll be fun too. :roll:
Title: Re: TURBO DUO SOUND FIX!! (56k beware)
Post by: blueraven on November 20, 2008, 03:27:14 PM
:-s :-s :-s Crap. Well, the sound in my duo just went totally dead. It looks like i'll be posting my own follow up here in the near future.
Title: Re: TURBO DUO SOUND FIX!! (56k beware)
Post by: MarsPants on November 24, 2008, 09:00:24 AM
Hey, it's me again! I started to replace the capacitors and I just finish replacing both the post amp. When I hooked everything back up the sound worked longer then usual but eventually went out. Also now the cd drive doesn't spin ](*,). I was wondering if there is anything I could have done that would have caused this? The laser does move but the CD just does not spin. Any ideas would be great.
Okay never mind! I fiddled with the wires leading into the CD drive and it works again! It was a silly mistake I suppose. However, any ideas what caps I should replace after the post amp? I'm assuming the pre amp so I think I'm going to try it now.
Title: Re: TURBO DUO SOUND FIX!! (56k beware)
Post by: Duo_R on November 24, 2008, 10:25:21 AM
I went crazy after replacing all the post/pre amp caps and having sound but issue with intermittent static and sound volume issues (it was the shotgun approach). Nat predicted leaking cap fluid causing the issue and suggested a dishwash. I did the dishwash (you can get details on how I did it on another post) and after NO static issues. What was strange was initially my sound didn't come after the dishwash, but then after a few tests (it went in and out) it came on and never went out again. I did notice a 40% drop is sound output. It isn't a huge issue, but I have to turn the volume WAY up. I think I have a bad cap on there somewhere. If I were to do all over again here is what I would do with a Duo with sound issues:
* Remove all the caps in the pre/post amp area (find the diagram on this website) * Dishwash with the 7th generation soap Nat suggested - 1 cycle with soap, 2 cycles with warm/hot water (AND NO HEAT DRY, AIR DRY ONLY) * Replace with new caps in the pre/post amp area
Why do I recommend this? Because some of the caps leaked and will limit wash/rinse underneath. Removing them ensures a 100% clean and you don't also run your brand new caps in the wash. I think it also helps the board dry faster. The way I did it was remove/replace caps then wash, but again I would do it in the order I listed above in the future. I just spent too much time monkeying around with the cap replacements, and I replaced all the caps thinking it was another issue before finding out about the dishwash method Nat suggested.
It was nice to fix the issue (but I need to get another cap replaced to get sound loud again), I debated on changing my username to DishwashDuo, but the Duo_R I purchased justified keeping that tag.
Title: Re: TURBO DUO SOUND FIX!! (56k beware)
Post by: agt_dale_cooper on November 24, 2008, 11:08:32 AM
I learned something about capacitors today.... If your multimeter has a 'Diode Testing' function (symbol looks like ->|- on my Harbor Freight special), try this for testing caps in the circuit: 1) Locate the Diode Testing function, switch to it. 2) For post-op and pre-op caps (I'm using C604 as example here): connect the positive lead of the MM to the positive side of the cap, connect the negative lead of the MM to the negative side of the cap, HOLD IN PLACE for like 30 seconds. Readout will say "1", but hold in place for 30 seconds. 3) Remove leads, switch MM to DCV = 20. 4) Connect + lead to + cap, - lead to - cap 5) Should observe values DECLINING...mine started at .35 for C604, declined as long as I held leads in place.
What's happening here is that the Diode Testing mode is actually supplying a small amount of charge to the capacitor, which it (if functional) absorbs....switching the MM to DCV = 20 (I selected 20 because it is closest to the 16V rating of the cap) and connecting actually allows the cap to DISCHARGE while you're measuring it! Different caps on the board behave differently, but all the ones in the audio circuit appear to exhibit the same behavioral pattern.
This can be used to tell whether or not your caps are trashed, I think....might actually be used as a means of 'jump starting' caps as well....
Anybody that actually knows something about MM use / any non-layman-like-me type with useful knowledge have commentary? [I'm reading while futzing about with my multimeter, DETERMINED to solve this audio issue.....I'm currently testing my working USA unit against non-working JAP unit, learning odd things along the way. I think we've blown a resistor / fuse somewhere in the audio circuit, and I'm determined to find out WTF the bottom line is....]
Forgive me if you think I'm talking out of my ass, electricians, but this might help somebody....
Title: Re: TURBO DUO SOUND FIX!! (56k beware)
Post by: MarsPants on November 24, 2008, 11:56:13 AM
Ahhh! It works :D After a REALLY bad soldering job and about an hour trying to fix a huge blob of goo It works by some divine magic. All I did was replace the Pre and post amp and it did it for me. I can't say I'm completely in the clear yet because it seems that people post having problems after the fix. I usually could only play for about 2 minutes before sound malfunction, but I was just playing for about 30 minutes and no problem at all. Anyway, good times! This form rocks
Title: Re: TURBO DUO SOUND FIX!! (56k beware)
Post by: agt_dale_cooper on November 27, 2008, 06:41:32 PM
Well, the PCE Duo hit the dishwasher this afternoon (went to Grandma's, made Chinese for dinner, threw the thing in while we were wrapping potstickers), it came out looking like reverse-engineered ass. White funk all over the board, just like others have mentioned. Bought some rubbing alcohol on the way home, hit it hard with the toothbrush, but even this leaves a white haze behind....
Question: Is this haze harmful? I doubt it (as it's no doubt non-conductive), but I need to throw it out there...
I'm gonna hit it again tomorrow (Black Friday ads look like reverse-engineered ass as well (but, CircusTitties have Arcade 360s with free refurbed 20GB HDD + wireless controllers for $199??? If these have Jaspers in them (with new onboard RAM), this may be a steal! Pay close attention, though, if your local CT is slated for going under, they may not have all deals....these stores have actually been sold to a liquidation entity), retailers are gonna FLAIL with the economy in the state it's in) with the alcohol, then give it a good once over with the air compressor to speed the drying process...if my caps show up (again 'Parts Express' seems to be a misnomer.....nice folks, really (I called them the other day trying to replace C509 [which I believe to be the Tennokoe functionality], guy was super nice, even schooled me a bit!), but the shipping time SUCKS), I'll start soldering them on. Yes, FUN FUN FUN, but it'll be better than being in with the maddening crowds at WallyWorld...
End of yet another exercise in insuring parentheses have been properly opened and closed/a post that looks like an Excel formula....heh. More news to follow...enjoy your Friday, if you do that sort of thing....[throw an elbow or two for me :twisted: ]
Title: Re: TURBO DUO SOUND FIX!! (56k beware)
Post by: Duo_R on November 27, 2008, 07:14:10 PM
AGT Dale,
I had some white haze stuck to the parts of the board that had excessive goo stuck to it. Did you run 2 washes with water only? Run 2 cycles water only (warm/hot water) with Air Dry. Then use mixture of 50/50 of rubbing alcohol / water with toothbrush on the board. That should remove most of the haze. It should look really clean after that. But mine was as yours was described. Then the most important piece is letting it dry for at least a couple of days. Setup the board in front of a box fan in your garage and just let the sucker dry out REALLY good. You don't want to risk something shorting out.
Title: Re: TURBO DUO SOUND FIX!! (56k beware)
Post by: agt_dale_cooper on December 04, 2008, 07:18:18 AM
Well, got the thing back together after it's hot date with the dishwasher...
CD audio did NOT return, although ADPCM did (!!). CD audio is still REALLY faint. This rules out the M5205 (which I did find on eBay, BTW: http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-ICS-M5205-OKI-18-PINS-DIP-5205_W0QQitemZ150117198253QQcmdZViewItemQQptZBI_Electronic_Components?_trksid=p3286.m20.l1116 )
I had to pull it apart again to fix the power switch (seized up after I didn't dry it after removing from DW..), so once it's finished drying, I'll slap it all back together again, let it run overnight or something in hopes of charging caps or something....
Also helpful to note (for those of you with modded systems) that the CD player functionality works WITHOUT the HuCard slot connected...I installed a switch in this thing prior to it's audio failure, I just disconnected it from the HuCard slot and fired the thing up for CD testing....helpful not to have to wire up the switch back to the slot before testing!
Title: Re: TURBO DUO SOUND FIX!! (56k beware)
Post by: Duo_R on December 04, 2008, 08:53:39 AM
I just left my 8PDT switch installed, and put it in a plastic baggy in hopes of keeping it from getting wet. The plan didn't work, if you try that use something that will really waterproof the switch. It wasn't harmful though, I just had to use a can of compressed air to get it dryed. I personally wouldn't remove your switch, that is just extra work.
Title: Re: TURBO DUO SOUND FIX!! (56k beware)
Post by: Duo_R on March 05, 2009, 07:35:28 AM
just an FYI - I have a hunch someone is trying to make money off this guide. Oh well I guess everyone tries to cash in on ebay. :roll:
Description DO YOU HAVE A VINTAGE TURBO GRAFX EXPRESS HAND HELD UNIT? IF SO, ONE OF THE COMMON PROBLEMS WITH IT IS THAT THE SOUND GOES OUT. IT WILL WORK THROUGH HEADPHONES, BUT THE SOUND DIES OR IS VERY LOW THROUGH THE SPEAKERS. DON'T SELL YOU SYSTEM BECAUSE OF THAT! ON THE OTHER HAND, THIS IS A GOOD OPPORTUNITY TO BUY ONE OF THESE SYSTEMS CHEAP AND FIX IT ON YOUR OWN FOR A HIGHER RESALE VALUE! I HAVE STEP BY STEP INSTRUCTIONS WITH PICTURES ON HOW TO FIX THIS PROBLEM! IT TAKES A SMALL SCREWDRIVER, A CAPACITOR THAT YOU CAN GET AT RADIO SHACK OR ANY ELECTRONICS HOUSE AND SOME SOLDER. I WILL IMMEDIATELY EMAIL YOU THE FILE UPON PAYMENT. YOU MUST HAVE MICROSOFT WORD TO OPEN THE DOCUMENT. PLEASE READ THE FOLLOWING, JUST SO EVERYONE UNDERSTANDS: I AM NOT THE AUTHOR OF THIS INFORMATION. I COMPILED THE INFORMATION AND PUT IT TOGETHER IN AN EASY TO FOLLOW FORMAT. THE INFORMATION WAS GATHERED FROM THE PUBLIC DOMAIN AND THE BEST/PROVEN INFORMATION WAS CHOSEN. THE SMALL FEE FOR THIS IS JUST FOR MY TIME AND EFFORTS TO PUT THIS TOGETHER AND MAKE IT CONVENIENT FOR YOU. I WILL NOT GET RICH FROM THIS INFORMATION! THANK YOU! SOON YOU WILL BE ENJOYING YOUR EXPRESS SYSTEM AGAIN!
Title: Re: TURBO DUO SOUND FIX!! (56k beware)
Post by: Necromancer on March 05, 2009, 08:08:33 AM
I'd be interested to see if they have pictures/info of ours taken from here at PCFX...
To my knowledge this site is the best compilation of information about these issues.
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: Pcenginefx on March 05, 2009, 12:04:08 PM
I have made this topic sticky, as well as changed the thread title for better classification.
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: Duo_R on March 19, 2009, 07:39:39 AM
so today I booted up my old US Duo (who has been not getting much attention since the Duo-R arrived last year). The audio as I stated was lowered after my fix, but no more scratchiness / fading in and out of audio. I played Ys III last night and noticed something - when the characters talk (recorded speach) I do not hear anything. I hear the soundtrack playing, but cannot hear the characters talk at all! Now I am baffled..... ](*,)
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: Necromancer on March 19, 2009, 08:34:51 AM
No ADPCM, eh? Awack had that problem before; the consensus was that a chip had failed. I'd check with him to see if a chip transplant solved the problem and if he can give you any tips.
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: Duo_R on March 19, 2009, 02:16:47 PM
well I replaced the chip with another one from a Duo that was working fine. Didn't fix the problem unfortunately.....man this US Duo is just so damn stubborn! Nice clean audio but no ADPCM.
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: Duo_R on March 19, 2009, 03:36:43 PM
I did a swap from a US Duo to a JP Duo with the M5205 chip. Both systems retained the same behavior (US Duo no ADPCM, JP Duo has ADPCM but fading audio). The JP Duo hasn't had a cap swap yet so that is why the fading audio is there. As I stated both systems behaved exactly the same. So I am beginning to suspect another part. What about the other IC's near this area? I know one of them is the opamp, what os the IC between Opamp and the M5205 chip? It is directly above the voltage regulators, long skinny IC.
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: Duo_R on March 23, 2009, 06:34:00 PM
no thoughts? Does anyone think a tech doc is floating around somewhere on the Duo systems? I replaced the M5205 and still ADPCM issues.....when I have time I will swap more IC's but I would rather not shotgun this system (well I already replaced EVERY capacitor practically). Perfect sound now, no ADPCM.
Also - how important is ADPCM in most CD games? Does this just render it kinda useless for RPG's with voice acting?
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: Fakk2 on March 28, 2009, 06:57:16 PM
I am also having this issue with sound crackle only mine is with my PC Engine PAC for the LaserActive. I replaced one of the capacitors as mentioned for the Duo and the crackle sound has stopped, but now I have no sound fx or ADPCM sound coming from the left speaker at all, but the CD audio works perfectly for both speakers. I can't believe my PAC is affected by this issue. I seriously don't wanna ruin my PC Engine PAC by ripping traces prying off these caps and replacing them as the PC Engine PAC is rare and expensive. Anyone know of Pioneer repair shops that fix these things?
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: override on April 01, 2009, 09:04:45 AM
Hey D-Lite,
I just ordered a duo that is having the sound problem (ADPCM going out) that you are describing off of ebay?! I placed a bid at the last minute and got it for $72.00....I bid because it was cheap and I figured it could be fixed easily!
The question I have is shown in your pics of the "old" and "new" caps the old ones circled in yellow have arrows pointing to the left and right caps. The pics of the "new" caps show that you only replaced the left side.....Is that because you only needed to replace the left side or were you just showing an example with the left side before you did the right side?
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: Necromancer on April 01, 2009, 10:51:11 AM
I just ordered a duo that is having the sound problem (ADPCM going out) that you are describing off of ebay?! I placed a bid at the last minute and got it for $72.00....I bid because it was cheap and I figured it could be fixed easily!
The question I have is shown in your pics of the "old" and "new" caps the old ones circled in yellow have arrows pointing to the left and right caps. The pics of the "new" caps show that you only replaced the left side.....Is that because you only needed to replace the left side or were you just showing an example with the left side before you did the right side?
You won't get an answer from D-Lite - he's not around here any longer. D-Lite's problem was redbook related, not ADPCM, so this specific instance wouldn't have helped much anyway. My advice is to visit this thread for one possible culprit and check the Total Capacitor Replacement Repair Guide for all the caps and just do 'em all. It's better to fix everything now than go crazy later trying to track down which cap is still causing problems.
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: override on April 01, 2009, 12:47:36 PM
Well poop I didnt know he wasnt around.....BUT Thanks for refering me to those other 2 forums :clap: ! I had seen the one for the cap replacements but I didnt know of the other one for the sound problem that I do infact have.... ](*,) Thanks for the help though! Everyone here has been super friendly so far! Im glad I joined the forum!
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: Fakk2 on April 02, 2009, 11:04:35 AM
Well, since nobody can help me here I decided to go ahead and do it myself. I ordered a ton of capacitors from allelectronics.com and when they got here yesterday I went ahead and shotgunned the PC Engine PAC and replaced every cap that I could (some have strange info on them so I don't know what they are so I could not do all of them), but to no surprise I have the same problem still. No ADPCM or Sound FX from the left channel. It did however make the sound fx and ADPCM sound from the right channel crystal clear and loud again. So I guess it was not a total waste of time. But I still cannot hear any sound fx or ADPCM from the left channel...any ideas? please help!
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: Necromancer on April 02, 2009, 11:15:08 AM
...replaced every cap that I could (some have strange info on them so I don't know what they are so I could not do all of them)...
This probably isn't what you want to hear, but it might be one of the unidentified caps. Sorry I can't be on any real assistance. :|
If I took pics of the thing can you guys help me then? I mean, I know the PC Engine PAC is rare as hell and nobody has one, but still it is very much like a regular turbo duo just smaller, so there should be ways to repair this unit. I dont care if I must replace every cap on the unit, (theres not many left to replace) I just need to know the values of the caps to buy some new ones. They have weird values on them for example...the ones that read 10 and 16v... were replaced with 10uf caps at 16volts each. The cap that said 47 16s was replaced with a 47uf cap at 16volts.. which should be fine but then I have a TON more with 100 6s on them (Im guessing its 100uf at 6volts?) and a bunch more with 22 6s 37c on them which I can only guess would be 22uf at 6 volts? any ideas? Anyone here with a LaserActive system that can repair this for me???
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: Charlie on April 20, 2009, 01:09:32 PM
General notes- C301, 307, 308 are raw power supply filtering.
For CD audio (sourced at U103 PCM decoder), start at U201 (DAC), come out stereo to U202 filter (caps C205,C206 significant here),through U203 amp/filter, through U504 audio gate, into U505 (caps c617,c618). Out U505 (through caps c613,c614 -- also, c616 sets frequency response) to U506, out U506 (caps c604,c610) to AV output connector. Same signal also fed to U507 amp/filter (through caps c670, c671), then output (via c678, c679) to headphone connector. U507 also uses caps c675 and c676 to set its filter operation.
For game audio (sourced by U901), come out stereo through caps c878 and c879 into U506, continue as above.
For ADCPM audio (sourced by U502), come out mono through cap c652 to passive filter (uses c623), to one-half of U503 amp , out U503 (cap 653) through passive filter (uses c621) to other-half of U503, into U504 audio gate (both channels), continue as above.
C526 is the VCC cap for U515, the 512K ROM.
C323 is regulated power filtering.
Somebody should start tracking this stuff in one of the "sticky" posts, maybe as a table of what cap does what.
Good luck.
Charlie
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: Duo_R on April 20, 2009, 03:18:46 PM
wow Charlie, at 3 posts you sure have a lot of information on the Duo. Did you just trace this yourself?
General notes- C301, 307, 308 are raw power supply filtering.
For CD audio (sourced at U103 PCM decoder), start at U201 (DAC), come out stereo to U202 filter (caps C205,C206 significant here),through U203 amp/filter, through U504 audio gate, into U505 (caps c617,c618). Out U505 (through caps c613,c614 -- also, c616 sets frequency response) to U506, out U506 (caps c604,c610) to AV output connector. Same signal also fed to U507 amp/filter (through caps c670, c671), then output (via c678, c679) to headphone connector. U507 also uses caps c675 and c676 to set its filter operation.
For game audio (sourced by U901), come out stereo through caps c878 and c879 into U506, continue as above.
For ADCPM audio (sourced by U502), come out mono through cap c652 to passive filter (uses c623), to one-half of U503 amp , out U503 (cap 653) through passive filter (uses c621) to other-half of U503, into U504 audio gate (both channels), continue as above.
C526 is the VCC cap for U515, the 512K ROM.
C323 is regulated power filtering.
Somebody should start tracking this stuff in one of the "sticky" posts, maybe as a table of what cap does what.
Good luck.
Charlie
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: Fakk2 on April 21, 2009, 03:45:13 PM
General notes- C301, 307, 308 are raw power supply filtering.
For CD audio (sourced at U103 PCM decoder), start at U201 (DAC), come out stereo to U202 filter (caps C205,C206 significant here),through U203 amp/filter, through U504 audio gate, into U505 (caps c617,c618). Out U505 (through caps c613,c614 -- also, c616 sets frequency response) to U506, out U506 (caps c604,c610) to AV output connector. Same signal also fed to U507 amp/filter (through caps c670, c671), then output (via c678, c679) to headphone connector. U507 also uses caps c675 and c676 to set its filter operation.
For game audio (sourced by U901), come out stereo through caps c878 and c879 into U506, continue as above.
For ADCPM audio (sourced by U502), come out mono through cap c652 to passive filter (uses c623), to one-half of U503 amp , out U503 (cap 653) through passive filter (uses c621) to other-half of U503, into U504 audio gate (both channels), continue as above.
C526 is the VCC cap for U515, the 512K ROM.
C323 is regulated power filtering.
Somebody should start tracking this stuff in one of the "sticky" posts, maybe as a table of what cap does what.
Good luck.
Charlie
So this information is good for Turbo Duo users only or what? I cant find the caps you listed at all in my PC Engine PAC.
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: nat on April 21, 2009, 03:49:45 PM
If you're speaking of the LaserActive PCE pack, then yeah, it's highly unlikely that any information contained herein is going to pertain to anything you find in the LA pack.
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: Charlie on April 21, 2009, 10:21:57 PM
Reference to the Volume Control VR601:
It's connected between C604/C610 and C671/C670 (stereo, of course). Interestingly enough, instead of the typical connection whereby the audio is the source and the volume control acts as a pot to select some fraction of that audio, in this case the volume control is connected as a "short" across the audio line. At zero volume, it actually "grounds out" the audio.
Charlie
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: Mobius on May 04, 2009, 04:02:38 PM
I just wanted to say thanks to everyone in this and the various other sound fix/cap replacement threads. Not because it resolved a sound issue in my Duo, but because it helped me solve something completely unrelated. Several months ago, I bought a CD32 off of ebay, but the controller was all wonky. The seller sent me a new one, but the second one started doing the same weird stuff after about an hour of use.
I opened the controllers up to take a look. I saw a capacitor on the board, and remembering what I had read in these threads about bad capacitors from the early 90s, figured it was worth a shot to replace it. After all, I had nothing else to go on, and another controller would probably run me something like $40!
Sure enough, it's good as new! Now I can finally enjoy my CD32 and not have it be a total waste of money. :)
(And as a side note, the guy at Radio Shack assured me a 47uF/35V cap would be a suitable replacement for a 47uF/10V cap, but that was totally wrong. Stick with the same ratings!)
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: nat on May 04, 2009, 04:33:44 PM
(And as a side note, the guy at Radio Shack assured me a 47uF/35V cap would be a suitable replacement for a 47uF/10V cap, but that was totally wrong. Stick with the same ratings!)
Actually, that is totally right. The voltage rating on capacitors is simply an indication of how much voltage the capacitor is rated for. As in, it can withstand up to whatever the voltage rating says. If a 47uF/35V cap didn't work in place of a 47uF/10V cap, it was just a fluke (you probably had a bad cap). You could put a 47uF/999999999999V cap in there (if such a thing existed) and it would behave exactly the same as the 10V because the console is still only supplying the same amount of voltage to it.
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: Mobius on May 04, 2009, 04:53:44 PM
(And as a side note, the guy at Radio Shack assured me a 47uF/35V cap would be a suitable replacement for a 47uF/10V cap, but that was totally wrong. Stick with the same ratings!)
Actually, that is totally right. The voltage rating on capacitors is simply an indication of how much voltage the capacitor is rated for. As in, it can withstand up to whatever the voltage rating says. If a 47uF/35V cap didn't work in place of a 47uF/10V cap, it was just a fluke (you probably had a bad cap). You could put a 47uF/999999999999V cap in there (if such a thing existed) and it would behave exactly the same as the 10V because the console is still only supplying the same amount of voltage to it.
Huh, weird... Guess it was a fluke, then. It definitely didn't work.
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: agt_dale_cooper on May 22, 2009, 08:06:08 AM
Interesting....Charlie is my new hero. [Not to mention already my hero(es) from Military Madness :twisted:] Haven't messed with this PCE Duo that had me resurrecting this thread for a LONG time, I've had other stuff to repair... Now with a specific plan of attack/testing for the CD audio, I will drag the thing out of the box and trace through those specific points, looking for faults. I've re-capped the thing twice, but that's not to say that my soldering is invincible... I also enjoyed the commentary about the headphone jack shorting across the CD audio...fairly certain I tried headphones with the thing and came out with the same really faint audio, so I imagine the headphone jack is NOT at minimum setting....that would be a really stupid solution. I'm interested to hear if Charlie's commentary prompts other folks with similar audio issues to mine (everything works EXCEPT Redbook from the CD drive, even after replacing laser pickup) to pick up their forgotten-due-to-excessive-irritation no-audio PCEs....
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: override on May 22, 2009, 02:04:54 PM
Interesting....Charlie is my new hero. [Not to mention already my hero(es) from Military Madness :twisted:] Haven't messed with this PCE Duo that had me resurrecting this thread for a LONG time, I've had other stuff to repair... Now with a specific plan of attack/testing for the CD audio, I will drag the thing out of the box and trace through those specific points, looking for faults. I've re-capped the thing twice, but that's not to say that my soldering is invincible... I also enjoyed the commentary about the headphone jack shorting across the CD audio...fairly certain I tried headphones with the thing and came out with the same really faint audio, so I imagine the headphone jack is NOT at minimum setting....that would be a really stupid solution. I'm interested to hear if Charlie's commentary prompts other folks with similar audio issues to mine (everything works EXCEPT Redbook from the CD drive, even after replacing laser pickup) to pick up their forgotten-due-to-excessive-irritation no-audio PCEs....
Hello,
Although you seem to know more or less what your doing which is most likely more I just figured I would throw this one out there even though its been posted on this thread before. Have you tried replacing the M51131L chip? or the M5205 18 Pin oki chip?
I had the sound issue and replaced a handfull of suspecting caps (ones that leaked) and it fixed the sound but since it has become faint, and when playing like lords of thunder when you shoot the sound makes a popping noise. I gotta pull it back apart and recheck it all again...Probably another cap leaked...Time to just replace all of em.
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: Bludgeon on June 24, 2009, 02:33:41 AM
Just noticed my Turbo Duo has that problem. When I play the hucard it has all the sound but when I play Ys 1&2 the background music only plays. Kinda strange when I play the disc in my laserdisc player I can hear all the soundtrack but to bad I dont own that laseractive player. One sweet machine and the price is just as sweet to.
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: agt_dale_cooper on June 27, 2009, 05:55:17 PM
FINALLY got around to this.
Assumptions: If all the ICs are good for the CD audio circuit, then there are a limited number of failure points in terms of caps: C205, 206 (bottom of board, surface/flat mount) and C617, 618 (top of board, surface/flat mount, to the right of IC505). [Remaining caps in circuit is all stuff we replaced: C613, 614, C616, C604 and C610.]
Questions: 1) What the frell are proper readings for C617 and C618? I broke out the working-CD audio USA unit, and it's readings (DC V 20m) behaved radically differently than the faint CD audio JAP unit. 2) Assuming they're frelled, how do we replace? Too frelling small to get a reading/part number off. 3) What are C205, 206 supposed to read? I'm less concerned about them than I am the ones on the top, but I'll ask.
Comments: Haven't replaced the 5205...I don't see the point before insuring all other circuit components are in working order.... Also pulled the black cover off the lens to insure it wasn't one of the double-style ones where you have to clean the bottom lens too (fixed a recalcitrant SCPH-50001 PS2 by doing this yesterday....spinning the lens height gears (yes, the 50001 has two!) yielded results for DVD5 and CD, but not DVD9. Took the cap off the lens, cleaned lower lens with my favorite 91%, works like a charm now.)
Thanks for any help, kids.....glad to see this got stickied so it's not me resurrecting the dead again :twisted:
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: Charlie on June 28, 2009, 05:10:03 AM
C617,C618 ,C205,C206= .22uf. Anything 16V or more is ok.
Note that U505 has a CD mute function and a CD fade function on pin 8; check that also.
Charlie
PS: This is probably something else that should go into the "repair data encyclopedia". (Is anyone actually keeping track of this stuff? It would make it easier for a user, as compared to having to search all the various posts)
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: Platinumfungi on June 28, 2009, 05:40:47 AM
(Is anyone actually keeping track of this stuff? It would make it easier for a user, as compared to having to search all the various posts)
I totally agree about recording any useful information. The stickied "REPAIR GUIDES" are actually a very newly implemented feature here and only became so after some requesting was put in the right direction. Anything that's complied into what seems like a nice guide can easily be stickied now :D
I'm not sure if it would be the right place, but I'd be happy to update or alter my "Duo Total Cap Replacement Chart" guide into something a little more like an archive of all the comprehensive repair data, part numbers, proper readings, etc for the Duo. I'd also be perfectly find with someone making some other thread to do so. I don't care who spearheads it, but, just like you, I want to make sure it's actually happening.
I just second the vote to record and archive all pertinent Duo info.
On a side note I made a topic in the hopes of doing the same premise for the often ailing Turbo CD/PCE CD. Hopefully it will one day be of some use to people as well.
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: Charlie on June 28, 2009, 09:08:44 AM
The replacement chart is the natural place for the cap data, of course. But the overall technical data? Don't know. And even if it is, the thread is very broken up on the various topics. Probably need to combine all that data, and the various other tidbits found in some of the other threads, into some comprehensive and coherent data presentation. Sort of like an on-line manual that contains sections for all console/peripherals?
Charlie
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: Platinumfungi on June 28, 2009, 03:03:53 PM
The replacement chart is the natural place for the cap data, of course. But the overall technical data? Don't know. And even if it is, the thread is very broken up on the various topics. Probably need to combine all that data, and the various other tidbits found in some of the other threads, into some comprehensive and coherent data presentation. Sort of like an on-line manual that contains sections for all console/peripherals?
Charlie
I like the sound of it, but I'm not sure what the best way is to organize / reorganize all of it. And I'm wondering if it's possible to do what you're thinking of (the online manual) here in the forums with the limitations of the forum design space or if it would need to be made with some other resources and then added/linked here.
Almost seems like you'd need to create webspace just for this to really lay it out nicely. Oh, that makes me question the idea of some Wiki type database? I know I've seen some various wiki spaces about different gaming repairs or mods before so just a thought there.
I'm all for helping out with whatever needs to be done for these. I've tried to help contribute what I can in the past and am definitely interested in continuing to do so :D
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: Charlie on June 29, 2009, 10:50:58 AM
Hmmm, webspace not a problem. Check out "www.racevb6.com (http://www.racevb6.com/)". Note the "guest" links. We can just add another one (damn! wish I'd thought of that --I was so concentrated on keeping the scattered data intact it just slipped my mind.)
Generally, I'll say go ahead and make up some docs, send them to me (with the appropriate subject) at "charlie@racevb6.com" and I'll upload them. But we should probably at least have a minimum idea of the format of the manual(s). I'd like to get the data out of the narrative-type description/format and into a more formal technical-type description/format, with various graphics like "Picture #1" and the proper references in the text, etc. And of course that means a fairly in-depth review of all the posts here that may contain applicable data. Any tech-writer types out there?
Charlie
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: agt_dale_cooper on June 29, 2009, 10:57:48 AM
C617,C618 ,C205,C206= .22uf. Anything 16V or more is ok.
Are these polarized? Too small to tell which side is +, which is -. [Parts Express: .22uF, 50V: http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=020-1622 . Gonna throw a buck at this, see what happens...]
Note that U505 has a CD mute function and a CD fade function on pin 8; check that also.
Mute would shut it completely off, right? Not just way down like we're experiencing...? If not, perhaps this is the bug....? :-k
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: milkmanv1 on July 08, 2009, 03:54:42 PM
Oh man, I'm so happy this is such an easy fix, just replace 2 caps. I just got a US duo, and I thought I noticed some scratchy, not too loud sound. I went to play some bravoman today (BRAVO!) and it was REAL bad, so me and my dad will (CAREFULLY!) pop open my Duo, and give her a fix. Thanks so much D-Lite
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: override on July 08, 2009, 05:01:53 PM
Oh man, I'm so happy this is such an easy fix, just replace 2 caps. I just got a US duo, and I thought I noticed some scratchy, not too loud sound. I went to play some bravoman today (BRAVO!) and it was REAL bad, so me and my dad will (CAREFULLY!) pop open my Duo, and give her a fix. Thanks so much D-Lite
While your in there you may as well replace all the caps! You can order them at newark.com for about $12....
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: milkmanv1 on July 08, 2009, 06:40:01 PM
Hmm I was going more for a quick fix... I mean It wouldnt hurt to redo all of em, but I figured i'd just replace as the problems go, "If it aint broke dont fix it?"
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: Charlie on July 08, 2009, 09:30:20 PM
Those caps are not polarized.
Yes, the mute would turn it off, but the fade may keep it low. The fade effect occurs by simply switching from high-volume, to mid-volume, to zero-volume. So, maybe it's stuck at mid-volume.
By the way, there is an "anti-thump" circuit as well; it's another, albeit remote, possibility.
Charlie
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: override on July 08, 2009, 10:27:35 PM
Hmm I was going more for a quick fix... I mean It wouldnt hurt to redo all of em, but I figured i'd just replace as the problems go, "If it aint broke dont fix it?"
Your right in most cases dont fix it if it aint broken.....BUT the problem hear in lies that the cause of the capacitors leaking is generally from heat and the fact that shitty caps were used at the time of building these extravegant machines! Everytime a cap leaks you get electrolytic/acidic juice from the caps on the PCB which there in can eat traces away and cause chip damage which will most likely eventually cause your sound to totaly fail and it will be a bitch to get back if you even get it back....
With this in mind and seeing it be an actual problem with "my system" I would say replace them all why you got it apart....its not that hard to do and maybe would take you about 2.5 hrs of pulling all the caps, desoldering them, cleaning the PCB and then resoldering!
If anything you could alway get a member such as myself, redghost, duo-r, etc. members on the board to do a cap replacement for you....Also be carefull not to lift any pads! Any caps that leak will have a higher chance of the pads lifting which can cause more problems than needed!
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: Charlie on July 09, 2009, 11:18:51 AM
Listen to Override; replace all caps.
Charlie
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: milkmanv1 on July 09, 2009, 03:20:01 PM
Hmm... I have a quick question, is it possible for a Hucard to be messed up? I havn't really noticed any fuzzy sound on any game other then bravo man that ONE time. I got bonks adventure today, played through the whole game, and since it was my first runthrough it took a while...so. My question is it possible for a HuCard to messed up?
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: override on July 09, 2009, 06:08:15 PM
Hmm... I have a quick question, is it possible for a Hucard to be messed up? I havn't really noticed any fuzzy sound on any game other then bravo man that ONE time. I got bonks adventure today, played through the whole game, and since it was my first runthrough it took a while...so. My question is it possible for a HuCard to messed up?
It is possible for hucards to go dead...I dont know about haveing sound issues but im sure its possible!
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: milkmanv1 on July 10, 2009, 03:10:24 AM
If the sound starts to act up at all again, I'll get right on replacing those caps, but since it was such an isolated incident i'll wait a bit, and see if anything else happens.
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: Fakk2 on July 15, 2009, 12:54:42 PM
Is there anyone in here that can replace all the caps in my PC Engine PAC? I already did the majority of them, but got no results at all from changing them. I am willing to pay a lil to get the rest of them swapped out with new ones if that will fix my sound issue I am having. I live in California. Please someone PM me and let me know. I am tired of owning a faulty PC Engine PAC, and want to see it work again someday. :) The only problem it is having is it had staticy sound coming from the left speaker during games. After changing out a ton of caps it now has no sound fx coming from the left speaker even though music works fine.
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: Fakk2 on August 05, 2009, 01:33:41 PM
I'm still looking for someone that lives in California that can change out the remaining caps and fix my PC Engine PAC. I am dying to get this working. Please respond.
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: override on August 05, 2009, 02:06:09 PM
Is there anyone in here that can replace all the caps in my PC Engine PAC? I already did the majority of them, but got no results at all from changing them. I am willing to pay a lil to get the rest of them swapped out with new ones if that will fix my sound issue I am having. I live in California. Please someone PM me and let me know. I am tired of owning a faulty PC Engine PAC, and want to see it work again someday. :) The only problem it is having is it had staticy sound coming from the left speaker during games. After changing out a ton of caps it now has no sound fx coming from the left speaker even though music works fine.
Since you have replaced caps you must know how to solder, replace ALL the caps, and test. If you still dont get anywhere then replace the sound balance chips, M5205OKI and M51131L chips. I can PM you a link to buy both chips if you want. If that doesnt fix the sound start replacing OP amps...If you get anysound whatsoever from the left speaker and it fades after a few seconds or minutes of play you can buy some freeze spray from like Radioshack and when the sound dies start squirting the amps and stuff, if one is getting to hot and causing it to die then you will figure out the bad chips.
I wish I could help more....If you ever decide you want to ship the sucker to me lemme know!
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: Duo_R on August 11, 2009, 09:43:54 PM
links to where someone could buy the M chips and the Op amps would be awesome!
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: override on August 12, 2009, 06:04:57 AM
links to where someone could buy the M chips and the Op amps would be awesome!
Sup Duo-R! Long time no talk....Glad to see you back on the forums even if only for a quick question.
I searched high and low for these buggers and believe it or not I found them as single buys on ebay! There were two sellers that carried them: honestcard and littlediode_usa. honestcard seems to have fallen off the face of the earth and who knows if he will find his way back, his M5205 OKI chip was much cheaper than littlediode's but for any matter if you think about it, the fact that you can just buy what you need is nice instead of having to buy a huge bundle of stuff from like digikey.
The M5205 OKI - HERE! (http://cgi.ebay.com/M5205-Integrated-Circuit-M5205_W0QQitemZ380026790519QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item587b5ca277&_trksid=p3286.m20.l1116)
The M51131L - HERE! (http://cgi.ebay.com/M51131L-M51131-Integrated-Circuit_W0QQitemZ170191791033QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item27a038a3b9&_trksid=p3286.m20.l1116)
and The BA6290A (I recently discovered these two chips are to blame for the cd player not working, I have started a guide already) - HERE! (http://cgi.ebay.com/BA6290A-Integrated-Circuit-BA6290_W0QQitemZ380026730217QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item587b5bb6e9&_trksid=p3286.m20.l1116)
Oh yeah almost forgot, the op-amps....The op amps in the duo are general purpose 4558 op amps such as this (http://www.nxp.com/acrobat_download/datasheets/NE_SA4558.pdf). Any should work!
littlediode is a nice guy, I gave him a whole list of chips from the duo to find out if he could get them and he returned maximum results, if I remember right he could get all of them except the special hu's ofcourse, and the system card chips. Sometimes he takes awhile to respond to questions but he will usually get you a datasheet if you need one and what not! Also he has given me some decent deals on the make an offer button! The last time I ordered I got $6 off what I would have paid! Hope this tid bit of info helps!
Good to see ya again duo....
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: Duo_R on August 16, 2009, 05:33:47 AM
Thanks override, I appreicate the info. I have seen the M chips on ebay, although I thought they were somewhat pricey (I haven't checked your links yet). Anyone have thoughts on the lack of ADPCM? What should be replaced first to fix that?
links to where someone could buy the M chips and the Op amps would be awesome!
Sup Duo-R! Long time no talk....Glad to see you back on the forums even if only for a quick question.
I searched high and low for these buggers and believe it or not I found them as single buys on ebay! There were two sellers that carried them: honestcard and littlediode_usa. honestcard seems to have fallen off the face of the earth and who knows if he will find his way back, his M5205 OKI chip was much cheaper than littlediode's but for any matter if you think about it, the fact that you can just buy what you need is nice instead of having to buy a huge bundle of stuff from like digikey.
The M5205 OKI - HERE! (http://cgi.ebay.com/M5205-Integrated-Circuit-M5205_W0QQitemZ380026790519QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item587b5ca277&_trksid=p3286.m20.l1116)
The M51131L - HERE! (http://cgi.ebay.com/M51131L-M51131-Integrated-Circuit_W0QQitemZ170191791033QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item27a038a3b9&_trksid=p3286.m20.l1116)
and The BA6290A (I recently discovered these two chips are to blame for the cd player not working, I have started a guide already) - HERE! (http://cgi.ebay.com/BA6290A-Integrated-Circuit-BA6290_W0QQitemZ380026730217QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item587b5bb6e9&_trksid=p3286.m20.l1116)
Oh yeah almost forgot, the op-amps....The op amps in the duo are general purpose 4558 op amps such as this (http://www.nxp.com/acrobat_download/datasheets/NE_SA4558.pdf). Any should work!
littlediode is a nice guy, I gave him a whole list of chips from the duo to find out if he could get them and he returned maximum results, if I remember right he could get all of them except the special hu's ofcourse, and the system card chips. Sometimes he takes awhile to respond to questions but he will usually get you a datasheet if you need one and what not! Also he has given me some decent deals on the make an offer button! The last time I ordered I got $6 off what I would have paid! Hope this tid bit of info helps!
Good to see ya again duo....
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: override on August 16, 2009, 07:00:43 AM
Thanks override, I appreicate the info. I have seen the M chips on ebay, although I thought they were somewhat pricey (I haven't checked your links yet). Anyone have thoughts on the lack of ADPCM? What should be replaced first to fix that?
links to where someone could buy the M chips and the Op amps would be awesome!
Sup Duo-R! Long time no talk....Glad to see you back on the forums even if only for a quick question.
I searched high and low for these buggers and believe it or not I found them as single buys on ebay! There were two sellers that carried them: honestcard and littlediode_usa. honestcard seems to have fallen off the face of the earth and who knows if he will find his way back, his M5205 OKI chip was much cheaper than littlediode's but for any matter if you think about it, the fact that you can just buy what you need is nice instead of having to buy a huge bundle of stuff from like digikey.
The M5205 OKI - HERE! (http://cgi.ebay.com/M5205-Integrated-Circuit-M5205_W0QQitemZ380026790519QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item587b5ca277&_trksid=p3286.m20.l1116)
The M51131L - HERE! (http://cgi.ebay.com/M51131L-M51131-Integrated-Circuit_W0QQitemZ170191791033QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item27a038a3b9&_trksid=p3286.m20.l1116)
and The BA6290A (I recently discovered these two chips are to blame for the cd player not working, I have started a guide already) - HERE! (http://cgi.ebay.com/BA6290A-Integrated-Circuit-BA6290_W0QQitemZ380026730217QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item587b5bb6e9&_trksid=p3286.m20.l1116)
Oh yeah almost forgot, the op-amps....The op amps in the duo are general purpose 4558 op amps such as this (http://www.nxp.com/acrobat_download/datasheets/NE_SA4558.pdf). Any should work!
littlediode is a nice guy, I gave him a whole list of chips from the duo to find out if he could get them and he returned maximum results, if I remember right he could get all of them except the special hu's ofcourse, and the system card chips. Sometimes he takes awhile to respond to questions but he will usually get you a datasheet if you need one and what not! Also he has given me some decent deals on the make an offer button! The last time I ordered I got $6 off what I would have paid! Hope this tid bit of info helps!
Good to see ya again duo....
The lack of ADPCM is caused more likely by the M5205 OKI chip, its the ADPCM processor/Balance Chip. The M41464-10 OKI chips (x2) are the memory storage for adpcm. I assume such as when you sound dies and you still hear the gun shooting or a bomb explode in game thats why, its stores some data in those ram chips. Next would be the sound balance chip M51131L. The next in line would be the two 4558 op-amps, to the left of the RED molex connector for the cd player, if memory serves me correct those follow the M5205 OKI! Then i believe from there is goes onto the back side of the board. I can get more info if ya need it. I have a datasheet for the M5205 OKI but its PDF format so I cant upload it in photobucket. Ill send it to you via Email Duo_R! Times short so gotta go.
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: Duo_R on August 16, 2009, 12:54:00 PM
Thanks, I have another Duo that I am swapping parts with until I figure out exactly what the issue is before I just blind start ordering parts since that can get expensive. This Duo has had every cap replaced, and I think I already did a swap with on of the M chips. This Duo is in great shape now besides ADPCM. I have this project on hold at the moment but will pick up pretty soon on it. Sadly I am doing no more mods once I ship Tron's Duo-R back but always here if anyone has a question or two. Just be patient because I won't be on the forums as much as I used to.
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: Duo_R on August 19, 2009, 07:58:00 PM
Override or anyone, do you know a good source for the M41464-10's? And damn these were a bitch to remove. I thought I had the technique all done then I lifted some tracing!!! It is fixeable but still going to be a pain in the ass.
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: blueraven on August 19, 2009, 09:50:55 PM
This part number for the RAM is M41464-12 not M41464-10, so I Assume it will not work, however; you may want to contact this eBay seller to see if he/she has stock.
http://tinyurl.com/mvdn6k
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: Charlie on August 19, 2009, 11:02:17 PM
"This part number for the RAM is M41464-12 not M41464-10"
The dash typically refers to the speed of the chip, if a 12 (slower @ 120ns) works, a 10 (faster @ 100ns) can be subitituted, but not the other way around.
Charlie
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: incrediblehark on September 09, 2009, 06:02:54 AM
So i replaced the pre and post op-amp caps in my duo mentioned by Dean and Duo-R (4 10uF 16V & 2 22uF 16V) and restored sound to my US duo, but the sound is sratchy, especially when cd and adpcm is playing. would this be another cap issue? there was mention of some more caps to replace (100, 1000, 470, and 220uF caps) near the amp. any ideas about the scratchiness of the audio? i dont really want to replace all of the caps, i dont feel experienced enough to do it.
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: override on September 09, 2009, 07:29:49 AM
So i replaced the pre and post op-amp caps in my duo mentioned by Dean and Duo-R (4 10uF 16V & 2 22uF 16V) and restored sound to my US duo, but the sound is sratchy, especially when cd and adpcm is playing. would this be another cap issue? there was mention of some more caps to replace (100, 1000, 470, and 220uF caps) near the amp. any ideas about the scratchiness of the audio? i dont really want to replace all of the caps, i dont feel experienced enough to do it.
There could be a number of reasons as to why the audio is scratchy, read here (http://www.pcenginefx.com/forums/index.php?topic=7239.msg122322#msg122322) for the cd portion of things....
The other could simply be there are more caps that need to be replaced, aswell since you say you dont feel experienced enough to replace all the caps, you could simply have a bad connection to the new caps you replaced. You want to make sure the legs of the caps are pressed down all the way onto the pads that your resoldering to, you dont want them floating in the solder. Bend your caps legs like this ][ on bottom and when you have them mounted straighten them up then reheat one side at a time while applying light pressure on top of the cap to that side. If they sink any then they are "floating in the solder", once they wont go down anymore then they have made solid connection with the pads!
As for the Duo goes all together, I would say if your gonna replace a couple caps then you may aswell replace all of them, its not that hard of a task, if you take your time and be careful as to not lift any of the pads from the board, you can have it done in a day I'd say. You could always hire someone from the boards to do the work for you, myself included! Red Ghost I believe is doing cap replacements aswell. Im not positive on anyone else, but possibly chop5 and blueraven.
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: Duo_R on September 09, 2009, 01:15:10 PM
My experience (and I have seen similar results with others) is that scratchiness means a couple caps leaked on your board and causing intermittent grounding of different pins and causing shorts which creates the scratchiness sounds. The only fix I am aware of is a dishwash method. Do lots of research and reading about before you attempt, there are a couple threads on here on how to do it.
Title: REPAIR GUIDE TurboDuo Sound Fix
Post by: skevenna73 on November 16, 2009, 01:35:09 AM
One of the kids in the lab had her Tacoma truck keyed today. It runs all the way down the passenger side. Does anyone have recommendations for a repair shop?
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: Necromancer on November 16, 2009, 03:47:13 AM
One of the kids in the lab had her Tacoma truck keyed today. It runs all the way down the passenger side. Does anyone have recommendations for a repair shop?
May I suggest that you try dying in a fire?
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: blueraven on December 10, 2009, 10:31:33 AM
OK:
Got the Black PC Engine Duo to limp me to the end of Xanadu; now the real fun begins.
I did the sound cap replacement, the 4 10mf caps, and the 1 47. I used the hi-temp caps just in case becase of the known problem with the heat synchs. It worked fine for about 2 minutes; full sound, redbook and huey music.
All of a sudden there is a heck of a lot of scratching during gameplay, crackling over the voices and occasionally cutting out. Re-booting to the main screen, the deafening scratching continued. I pulled the system apart, and cleaned it with 60/40 alcohol and a toothbrush. I -reset the laser to the origin position to see if that was the issue. Upon re-assembly, the static was really bad.
Here's the problem: there aren't any more leaky caps on the mainboard;
---
EDIT: There was a lot more wrong. I just finished a complete cap replacement, and the problems went away. At least 10 caps were leaking at the original time of this post. 4 22's, the 3.3 under the HOP-M3 (which needs replaced), 2 100's, 2 4.7's and 2 47's. (all microfarads). A good scrubbing with 70% alcohol and a toothbrush took care of the excess electrolytic fluid. Photos posted on the PCE Duo complete cap replacement thread; :mrgreen:
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: King_Vidiot on February 05, 2010, 09:37:33 AM
I sent my Duo away to get a region mod and the sound fix. The region mod works but my sound (just the music, not the sound effects) still cuts out when playing certain CD-based games (Dracula X, Valis, etc).
Could someone point me to the best post(s) that address this problem? I was thinking of just opening mine up, seeing what the guy did who "fixed" my sound to see if I can spot anything he skipped or didnt do.
thanks
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: D-Lite on February 05, 2010, 09:53:42 AM
I sent my Duo away to get a region mod and the sound fix. The region mod works but my sound (just the music, not the sound effects) still cuts out when playing certain CD-based games (Dracula X, Valis, etc).
Could someone point me to the best post(s) that address this problem? I was thinking of just opening mine up, seeing what the guy did who "fixed" my sound to see if I can spot anything he skipped or didnt do.
thanks
Do you know what the person did to fix the sound? Unless it was a full cap replacement you can assume that's likely the problem. I'm not going to ask you to post the person's name here, but I would send it back and ask for it to be done again since you paid for the work. Well, providing you paid for a full, guaranteed repair. For me, when I do one of these (only done it once for someone else so far, but have done many for consoles I have on hand), I thoroughly check the system performance before sending it out and asking for payment. There's a chance it's the pots too, if they weren't adjusted.
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: King_Vidiot on February 05, 2010, 11:04:15 AM
I assume what he did was a full cap replacement, I guess what I'm asking is once I open up the system, how can I verify this or not? Maybe he missed a cap or two? And if it's the pots, how do I test or adjust?
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: Charlie on February 06, 2010, 12:37:25 AM
==>And if it's the pots, how do I test or adjust?<<=
SEARCH function may help!
"5 silver pots on the Turbo Duo pcb"
Charlie
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: King_Vidiot on February 06, 2010, 07:13:17 AM
...or you could have saved your keystrokes and just posted the link
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: Charlie on February 09, 2010, 10:39:36 AM
Nah, then I would have had to find it myself! Less work this way.
Good luck
Charlie
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: Duo_R on February 10, 2010, 08:30:01 AM
D-lite,
any thoughts to the lack of ADPCM sounds? I got a full cap replaced Duo everything works except ADPCM sounds. Very strange, no scratchiness anymore just 0 volume for ADPCM. Alot of good ideas shared on here but wondering if u ever tackled that one yourself.
I sent my Duo away to get a region mod and the sound fix. The region mod works but my sound (just the music, not the sound effects) still cuts out when playing certain CD-based games (Dracula X, Valis, etc).
Could someone point me to the best post(s) that address this problem? I was thinking of just opening mine up, seeing what the guy did who "fixed" my sound to see if I can spot anything he skipped or didnt do.
thanks
Do you know what the person did to fix the sound? Unless it was a full cap replacement you can assume that's likely the problem. I'm not going to ask you to post the person's name here, but I would send it back and ask for it to be done again since you paid for the work. Well, providing you paid for a full, guaranteed repair. For me, when I do one of these (only done it once for someone else so far, but have done many for consoles I have on hand), I thoroughly check the system performance before sending it out and asking for payment. There's a chance it's the pots too, if they weren't adjusted.
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: SNKNostalgia on February 10, 2010, 10:09:31 AM
I wonder if the Oki MSM5205 ADPCM chips tend to fry out on Duo systems? I mean it is hard to imagine what else can go wrong after replacing all the caps. The only other cause I can think of is bad traces with corrosion from the leaking caps before replacement. The other problem could be no power getting to the to the Oki chip, or the CD control board not sending the data to it.
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: D-Lite on February 10, 2010, 12:10:40 PM
any thoughts to the lack of ADPCM sounds? I got a full cap replaced Duo everything works except ADPCM sounds. Very strange, no scratchiness anymore just 0 volume for ADPCM. Alot of good ideas shared on here but wondering if u ever tackled that one yourself.
I sent my Duo away to get a region mod and the sound fix. The region mod works but my sound (just the music, not the sound effects) still cuts out when playing certain CD-based games (Dracula X, Valis, etc).
Could someone point me to the best post(s) that address this problem? I was thinking of just opening mine up, seeing what the guy did who "fixed" my sound to see if I can spot anything he skipped or didnt do.
thanks
Do you know what the person did to fix the sound? Unless it was a full cap replacement you can assume that's likely the problem. I'm not going to ask you to post the person's name here, but I would send it back and ask for it to be done again since you paid for the work. Well, providing you paid for a full, guaranteed repair. For me, when I do one of these (only done it once for someone else so far, but have done many for consoles I have on hand), I thoroughly check the system performance before sending it out and asking for payment. There's a chance it's the pots too, if they weren't adjusted.
ONCE. And replacing the 5205 worked perfectly for it. Again, only had this happen once out of dozens of systems and that fixed it, as SNKNost said. So odd to have an IC fail like that, but was exactly the cause.
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: Duo_R on February 21, 2010, 10:24:05 AM
D-lite - unfortunately 5205 swap didn't change anything on this Duo. I have replaced some other parts, and I am still trying to find sources for some of the other IC's. It would be awesome if someone had a full part reference for all the IC's on compatible replacements and source.
I did a swap from a US Duo to a JP Duo with the M5205 chip. Both systems retained the same behavior (US Duo no ADPCM, JP Duo has ADPCM but fading audio). The JP Duo hasn't had a cap swap yet so that is why the fading audio is there. As I stated both systems behaved exactly the same. So I am beginning to suspect another part. What about the other IC's near this area? I know one of them is the opamp, what os the IC between Opamp and the M5205 chip? It is directly above the voltage regulators, long skinny IC.
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: override on March 01, 2010, 10:45:17 AM
Duo_R your still messing with that duo?
Whatever happen to the two chips I sent you?
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: Duo_R on March 01, 2010, 02:34:08 PM
Hey man sorry totally slacking on getting those back to you. Just send you a PM, reply with your addy and they will be on their way. Yeah unfortunately swapping the IC's didn't change anything, so at least it ruled those out for me. I got more IC's to swap up but not much time. More seeing if others have fixed this issue before I go mad and replace every damn part... LOL
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: unclebugspayton on March 05, 2010, 12:40:30 AM
So if i have scratchy sound i should change the post op amp caps and pre amp?
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: blueraven on March 05, 2010, 08:16:02 AM
I'd recommend changing all the caps around the heat synch's, but you may be able to get away with just the sound caps. I wasn't so lucky. I had the same problem; scratchy sound, and it went to fade out after a month or so. Make sure you clean up all of the excess flux and grime around the sound chip; this was causing the problem on one incredibly dirty unit from a turbo-smokers house.
I've just finished 2 complete cap replacements on Black PCE Duo's; I'm running the green NTK hi-temp caps for the sound area, as they can withstand hours and hours of extended gameplay.
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: unclebugspayton on March 09, 2010, 01:47:29 AM
What can i use to clean the excess flux and grime around the sound chip?
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: ogre on March 09, 2010, 09:51:53 AM
I just use regular old cheap rubbing alcohol 90%. You can get other flux cleaners but I have found them to be no more effective.
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: kattare on March 09, 2010, 12:03:12 PM
Alcohol and Q-Tips for me.
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: agt_dale_cooper on May 27, 2010, 11:12:47 AM
For ADCPM audio (sourced by U502), come out mono through cap c652 to passive filter (uses c623), to one-half of U503 amp , out U503 (cap 653) through passive filter (uses c621) to other-half of U503, into U504 audio gate (both channels), continue as above.
Dear God, I'm working on ANOTHER of these failed frelling Duos. Got one as parts off some guy on the TurboList, but has no ADPCM, even after recapping most of the board in that vicinity. Board does play Redbook, does play in-game. ADPCM test vehicle is "Gate/Bonk 1/Bonk 2" disc...when you first boot it, Bonk comes out in the spotlight and TALKS....you see the quote on screen, but there is "Bonk-ese" that plays in the background when the quotes come on the screen: Screen text "Me Bonk" - ADPCM plays "Ooga Bonk" Screen text "You Player" - ADPCM plays "Dabba Dooba" Screen text "We Play" - ADPCM plays "Ooga Mooga" [Apologies to Bonk if I've spelled his words incorrectly :) ]
Assuming the recap was successful, how do we test the surface mount components mentioned by Charlie? I'm looking specifically at: C652 (bottom of board, surface mount) C623 ("""") C621 (top of board, surface mount) I'm looking to test ALL caps before resorting to replacement of the M5205.
Speaking of, anybody have intelligent solutions for doing this? Chip lifters or something? A really tiny spatula? What's proper methodology for doing something like this?
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: Duo_R on May 28, 2010, 04:56:58 AM
ok I am beginning to suspect the BU4053BF chip for my ADPCM problems and I think I found a more current replacement:
Does anyone know how to apply the test circuits listed in the PDF? Is it possible that we can run these tests to determine if the stock chip is functioning properly?
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: Charlie on May 30, 2010, 03:05:40 AM
There are two "easy" ways to test this chip, without even unsoldering it. But "easy" doesn't mean simple or practical.
This chip is simply an electronic switch. All it does is connect some input signal to an output line. But, it does that under strict control. You can either: 1. Monitor those control signals, use the data sheet to determine what the chip should do to the output line, then check if it has, in fact, done that. 2. Temporarily make the switch connections yourself; that is, "short" the input to the output.
Method #1 is dependent upon the system manipulating the controls signals, which means you have no direct control over them. The difficulty here is that you are at the mercy of whatever the configuration the game controls, with, of course, any exceptions that can be configured with some kind of operator options. Basically, you are saying "ok, with the controls inputs set as X (which is outside my control), the signal I see on Y should come out Z. Let me check that". You'll need to use the data sheet to derermine X, Y and Z. Again, you have no control over X, and therefore no way to positively guarantee you have checked all inputs/output, since all possible combinations may not necessarily be functional for that game. By the way, do you have appropriate test equipment? An oscilloscope is ideal, but generally not part of your gaming system. A VOM (multimeter) may work, if it is sensitive enough to detect very small sound signals.
Method #2 is much easier, and only requires a short piece of jumper wire. However, it is much more prone to error, which can equate to destroying the chip. In this method, you basically make the electronic connection yourself. If the sound suddenly starts working, you now have a clue (Note: if this DOES work, it DOES NOT follow that the chip is bad.....this is only another clue). The problem with this is that you don't know what input signal is supposed to connect with what output signal. Generally, this is not a problem in terms of hurting the chip...just make very, very sure you are connecting inputs to outputs, and not to power or ground. Also, you must realize that you are likely to get strange sounds, because you will be connecting a signal that the game has turned off, and forced that signal on. However, you are not necessarily looking for correct sound in the first place...you are testing to see whether there is any sound at all.
Charlie
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: Duo_R on May 30, 2010, 03:36:24 AM
what pins are jumped for method 2?
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: agt_dale_cooper on May 31, 2010, 08:42:14 AM
FINALLY got some love out of my PAIR of ailing PCE Duos... Had one (mentioned earlier in this thread, months ago) that's been sitting around doing nothing.....ADPCM worked, but no Redbook. Bought another off a dude on the TurboList as parts.....Redbook works, but no ADPCM.
Pulled the M5205 off both units, switched out their respective M5205s. Used a socket to facilitate easier testing in the future: Radio Shack 276-1992, $0.48. Soldered the socket down, stuck the working 5205 into it, and Bonk talks. NICE!!!
Methodology/tools used: Radio Shack 45 watt desoldering iron/bulb, P/N 64-2060: http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062731 Desoldered all 18 pins, sucking solder up with above product. This thing is HOT, don't let it sit on your chip's leg while you answer the phone. Excessive heat applied directly to any chip will fry it's little guts.
Once all 18 pins were reasonably clean, plugged in the Weller WM120 12W: http://www.frys.com/product/64252?site=sr:SEARCH:MAIN_RSLT_PG Using MP131 tip: http://www.frys.com/product/64311?site=sr:SEARCH:MAIN_RSLT_PG (comes with the unit above)
Grabbed the chip (still stuck in place at this point) with these black tweezer-looking things, Radio Shack 276-1581: http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103244 Suprisingly handy....allows you to maintain pretty much consistent withdrawal pressure on the chip.
Flipped motherboard over, heated individual pins that appeared to still be holding on to the board, chip came off easily.
Rinse and repeat for donor board.
Install socket mentioned above, RS 276-1992....the divot in the end of it goes towards the heatsinks. Installing this socket also keeps you from overheating the chip itself while soldering (you're soldering socket instead directly on chip), provided you didn't already with the desoldering iron above. Use the WM120/MP131 combo to solder it in place...stick the thing onto the board, solder. Heat each leg protruding through the board, touch with solder, should be sufficient if you're connecting PCB pads and socket legs.
Insert M5205 into socket, divot in end of chip goes towards the heatsinks. The chip should press down into the socket...if it doesn't, clean your chip legs for ease of insertion. NO NEED TO SOLDER CHIP INTO PLACE.
Reinstall board into machine, test. If Bonk talks, you're stoked. Sell it quickly. :-"
Fortunately for me, this simple switch worked....now it's onto installing the region switch...urgh. [Kynar 30 gauge + Radio Shack 276-1570 + 82MS2R3 slide switch = bliss...]
Still looking for commentary on how to test the surface-mount caps mentioned earlier on this page......can't test them in-circuit, pulling them off the board is the only way...perhaps if Charlie can come up with recommended values for these guys in the ADPCM circuit, this can help Duo_R with his 'already replaced the chip' dilemma.
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: agt_dale_cooper on May 31, 2010, 01:58:13 PM
Let it be it known today, May 31, 2010, "Memorial Day" here in the United States of America, that PC Engine Duo serial number 1X146474A gave it's life so that others of it's kind might live. On a day where we all remember and honor our dead, so shall 1X146474A be remembered and honored. :clap:
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: Duo_R on June 01, 2010, 10:19:54 AM
Dale did the Duo get sacrificed in vain?
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: Charlie on June 05, 2010, 01:52:21 AM
==>"what pins are jumped for method 2? "<<=
Answer already in my previous post: ==>"You'll need to use the data sheet to derermine X, Y and Z"<==
(And, yes, I know I spelled "determine" incorrectly)
You yourself already posted the source for the previously mentioned data sheet. It is infintely more practical to look at that, than it is to type out four paragraphs of text to describe the block diagrams and flowcharts.
---------------------------------------------------- ==>"perhaps if Charlie can come up with recommended values for these guys in the ADPCM circuit"<==
Gotta dig through the notes, see what I can do about getting ANY data about the ADPCM circuit. However, I suspect that there is a significant amount of stuff in that entire section.....if you can narrow down to anything specific you need, that would help.
Back later,
Charlie
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: Charlie on June 05, 2010, 02:18:21 AM
Back here, for a quickie. Checked through a few of the previous posts we have had about this problem. Do a search for "U503" and you will get a lot of data buried in two different threads. True, that is not ALL the data. However, the data that IS posted is the most significant for troubleshooting; what is missing is stuff that has a low probability (but not zero!) of causing the problem. If you have tried all the stuff already listed in those posts, let me know and we'll go further. However, be aware that, if we have to dig deeper, it means we need more minute details and will probably get complex to describe and more frustrating to analyze. (Unless you have an electronics lab, in which case you probably already fixed it!!!)
Let's hope the failure is on the analog side, and not the digital side!
Charlie
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: agt_dale_cooper on June 05, 2010, 08:39:34 AM
For ADCPM audio (sourced by U502), come out mono through cap c652 to passive filter (uses c623), to one-half of U503 amp , out U503 (cap 653) through passive filter (uses c621) to other-half of U503, into U504 audio gate (both channels), continue as above.
Assuming the recap was successful, how do we test the surface mount components mentioned by Charlie? I'm looking specifically at: C652 (bottom of board, surface mount) C623 ("""") C621 (top of board, surface mount)
C652, C623 and C621 are all part of the circuit described by Charlie in first quote. These are SURFACE MOUNT, and in order to test them, you need to remove them at least partially from the board. As I don't know specifically what the frell they are, I was looking for Charlie to provide insight: 1) What they are (diodes, capacitors, etc.) 2) Possible part numbers if replacement is needed 3) Test values for working unit, or multimeter SETTINGS to test. Have multimeter, will test, once I figure out how. Will post values for others' reference, might be helpful in analyzing Duo_R's "already replaced the M5205" problem. If one of these surface mount cats have blown, would presumably account for unit's behavior.
Duo_R, I can't locate "BU4053BF".....give me an approximate physical location, I'll pull mine from my leftover parts (1X146474A from above) and send to you if needed. Bear in mind, however, that the ADPCM on this unit did NOT work.....yours for the taking if you feel like testing with it, though. Board is parts, and I'm gonna toss it soon.
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: Charlie on June 05, 2010, 12:59:01 PM
C652 is 0.1 uf (microfarads) C623 is 0.22 uf (microfarads) C653 is 10uf, 16V C621 is.....I have no notes on that one, nor C622. (But see end of post)
First question: is the capacitor in question a series path from point A to point B, or a bypass path from point A to ground? For the above: C652 is series, point A to point B C623 is bypass, point A to ground C653 is series, point A to point B C621 is bypass, point A to ground C622 is series, point A to point B
Bypass caps usually mean the cap can be temporarily removed; it will allow the circuit to work, but not necessarily properly or the most efficiently. However, if that cap is preventing the proper function completely, removing it and finding that you now get a partial circuit function is certainly a key indicator!
Series cap usually mean the cap absolutely must work for the circuit to work. You want to check these caps after you have eliminated any bypass caps as the problem. Reasons for that is, the series cap needs a bit more in-depth analysis. So, do the easier bypass caps first. In the case of the ASPCM circuit, both C623 and C621 can be removed for this analysis. Keep track of which is which, and remember to reinstall (or replace) them later!!!!
So, the next step is the series caps, right? Yes,.....but there is a little bonus for us in this circuit; C622 is used as feedback, which means the circuit can probably operate without it! So go ahead and remove it, too. Again, remember to reinstall/replace.
Since you have (presumably) removed the bypass caps, do a little testing... Start with the simplest analysis first: A capacitor is going to be shorted or open. You want to check for both of these errors; if you can eliminate both of these possibilities, then assume it's good (NOT a guarantee, but a reasonable bet for first level troubleshooting).
[What about testing for a "leaky" cap? That's why I said "simplest analysis first". Determining if a cap is leaky can require a bit more work (unless of course you see electrolyte all over the board!), and the short/open checks can help you toward this.]
Now what?...... You want to check if the cap is shorted or open. You need to apply both tests, as you can get an ambiguous result and will need both data points to eliminate the ambiguity. Make a chart for each cap, check: 1. With power off, resistance from first pin to ground 2. With power off, resistance from second pin to ground 3. With power on and no ADPCM audio active, DC voltage on first pin relative to ground 4. With power on and no ADPCM audio active, DC voltage on second pin relative to ground 5. With power on and ADPCM audio active, AC voltage on first pin relative to ground 6. With power on and ADPCM audio active, AC voltage on second pin relative to ground Note that, for 5 & 6, you may be looking for a few hundredths of a volt, so you need to use the most sensitive scale on the meter, and make sure you are NOT getting a false reading caused by any nearby electric/electronic interference.
Now you need to use the tool between your ears:
If the cap is shorted, then the DC voltage will be the same on both it's pins. Of course, be careful that the cap doesn't, by coincidence, connect two points that happen to actually have the same DC voltage. Usually, however, the whole point of the cap is specifically intended to keep the two voltages separate, so, if the DC voltages are different, assume the cap is not shorted.
If the cap is open, you will certainly have different DC voltages on it's pins (again, unless the circuits in use happen to have the same voltage). But a good cap will have this too, so check the AC voltages. You should have the same on both sides; that's the caps job, to get the signal from point A to point B. We will assume that point B is, itself, not the problem. If it looks like the cap IS open, it is safe to temporarily connect a second, new cap into the circuit...without having to remove the original, suspect cap. Just be sure to observe polarity, if any.
Shortcut: In the case of the ADPCM circuit, U503 is used as a two-stage amplifier filter. This means that pin 1 has a much more powerful ADCPM signal than U502 or any parts in-between. So, you could try just measuring the AC voltage on pin 1, and compare the value of ADCPM audio off with the value of ADCPM on. But I guess you have done that, otherwise you would not be concentrating on the actual capacitors. However, as we have shown, C652 (and C653, which you did not mention) are the only two critical caps in this circuit. And if you do the simple short test (same DC voltage on both pins), and the simple open test (connect a second known-good capacitor across them), testing this circuit is easy.
As for C621 and C622: I mentioned that C622 could PROBABLY be removed and the circuit could still work. This is because both of these caps are used as "filter elements" in an "active filter". This is a fancy way of saying they help "shape" the sound, kind of like an equalizer is used for audio systems. Of course, this equalizer only has one setting. But, without those caps, this equalizer circuit MAY have characteristics that, while still functioning properly, act like it isn't. So removing C622 if it is good (but you don't know that) has a small chance of actually making things appear worse.
As for the values, that depends upon what effect the equalizer is supposed to have; that is, what the audio is actually supposed to sound like. For test purposes, I would remove them both until you have (probably poorly) working audio, then reinstall them one at a time as a test.
Charlie
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: chany60126 on June 11, 2010, 09:00:04 AM
Hey Guys,
I could really use your help. This is probably a stupid question, but do you need a 4.5 MM gamebit to open up a US Duo?? I used the one recommended on page 4 of this thread from
and it won't fit on the screw!! Did I purchase the wrong one??
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: agt_dale_cooper on June 11, 2010, 09:28:19 AM
4.5mm gamebit is standard for the USA Turbo Duo. Top of screw is CONVEX. Torx Security T10 is standard for the Japanese Turbo Duo. Top of screw is concave.
If your 4.5mm doesn't fit, perhaps they sent a 3.8mm by mistake. Got a NES or SNES cart kicking around the house? They're put together with either flat head (NES) or 3.8mm (NES/SNES) screws. Got a Genesis cart around the house? They're put together with either philips or 4.5mm screws.
Check your screw bit against the NES/SNES/Genesis carts to determine it's size. If this doesn't work, take a GOOD picture of your screw, and we'll collectively figure it out for you.
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: chany60126 on June 11, 2010, 12:48:26 PM
4.5mm gamebit is standard for the USA Turbo Duo. Top of screw is CONVEX. Torx Security T10 is standard for the Japanese Turbo Duo. Top of screw is concave.
If your 4.5mm doesn't fit, perhaps they sent a 3.8mm by mistake. Got a NES or SNES cart kicking around the house? They're put together with either flat head (NES) or 3.8mm (NES/SNES) screws. Got a Genesis cart around the house? They're put together with either philips or 4.5mm screws.
Check your screw bit against the NES/SNES/Genesis carts to determine it's size. If this doesn't work, take a GOOD picture of your screw, and we'll collectively figure it out for you.
Well, I am pretty sure that it's not a 3.8 MM security bit as the bit can't even fit inside the hole where screw is for SNES games. I tried it on a couple of Genesis games and it can't grip it. I am not sure if this company gave me a generic gamebit or what. The grooves on the bit don't look wide enough to grip the screw even though it fits the hole.
This is the best pic I could take with my cam.
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: agt_dale_cooper on June 11, 2010, 02:16:53 PM
From the picture, appears you have the correct style bit. DON'T understand it's ability to open a Genesis game. Are the screws in the Genesis the same as the screws in your Duo? Got anybody local to you that handles such matters? Try Craigslist, if present for your vicinity. Don't know what to tell you, unfortunately...strange.
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: chany60126 on June 11, 2010, 06:33:29 PM
From the picture, appears you have the correct style bit. DON'T understand it's ability to open a Genesis game. Are the screws in the Genesis the same as the screws in your Duo? Got anybody local to you that handles such matters? Try Craigslist, if present for your vicinity. Don't know what to tell you, unfortunately...strange.
I went to my local Play N Trade since they can repair anything, even retro. The repairs guy confirmed that it was definitely the wrong bit since it is not keyed in properly compared to the screws on the Duo. He even tried to open up an n64 system, but no dice. Too bad he couldn't find his gamebit. The screws on my Duo are the same ones as the Genesis carts. What a headache... Where did you buy your gamebit from??
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: DragonmasterDan on June 12, 2010, 02:36:31 AM
From the picture, appears you have the correct style bit. DON'T understand it's ability to open a Genesis game. Are the screws in the Genesis the same as the screws in your Duo? Got anybody local to you that handles such matters? Try Craigslist, if present for your vicinity. Don't know what to tell you, unfortunately...strange.
I went to my local Play N Trade since they can repair anything, even retro. The repairs guy confirmed that it was definitely the wrong bit since it is not keyed in properly compared to the screws on the Duo. He even tried to open up an n64 system, but no dice. Too bad he couldn't find his gamebit. The screws on my Duo are the same ones as the Genesis carts. What a headache... Where did you buy your gamebit from??
Play N Trade's generally have trouble doing repairs for systems they either don't have an outside vendor to repair or are not in their guidebook.
Added in edit: After consulting a friend of mine who was employed at one. Most of what they do internally at his store is simple NES 72 pin connector swaps. Everything else they were sending out to a vendor. It's on a franchise by franchise basis apparently.
I'm guessing you went to the one next to the movie theatre in Downtown Elmhurst?
In any event, I bought the correct gamebit from Nintendo Repair Shop online.
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: chany60126 on June 12, 2010, 04:36:51 AM
From the picture, appears you have the correct style bit. DON'T understand it's ability to open a Genesis game. Are the screws in the Genesis the same as the screws in your Duo? Got anybody local to you that handles such matters? Try Craigslist, if present for your vicinity. Don't know what to tell you, unfortunately...strange.
I went to my local Play N Trade since they can repair anything, even retro. The repairs guy confirmed that it was definitely the wrong bit since it is not keyed in properly compared to the screws on the Duo. He even tried to open up an n64 system, but no dice. Too bad he couldn't find his gamebit. The screws on my Duo are the same ones as the Genesis carts. What a headache... Where did you buy your gamebit from??
Play N Trade's generally have trouble doing repairs for systems they either don't have an outside vendor to repair or are not in their guidebook.
Added in edit: After consulting a friend of mine who was employed at one. Most of what they do internally at his store is simple NES 72 pin connector swaps. Everything else they were sending out to a vendor. It's on a franchise by franchise basis apparently.
I'm guessing you went to the one next to the movie theatre in Downtown Elmhurst?
In any event, I bought the correct gamebit from Nintendo Repair Shop online.
Yep, I went to Play N Trade in Elmhurst, it's only a half mile from my house. The guy who does repairs, Steve, has worked with gamebits before. He seems to know what he is talkin about. He is excellent at soldering stuff as he has fixed many RROD for 360s. I will probably seek his advice on how to solder since I have never done that before. The guys there are awesome.
I will look into the nintendo repair site after I email the peops (ncsx.com) who sold me the wrong gamebit. I think. There is a label on the baggie where gamebit came that says 22-1150. Did your gamebit have a similar description?
Thanks,
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: DragonmasterDan on June 12, 2010, 06:42:54 AM
From the picture, appears you have the correct style bit. DON'T understand it's ability to open a Genesis game. Are the screws in the Genesis the same as the screws in your Duo? Got anybody local to you that handles such matters? Try Craigslist, if present for your vicinity. Don't know what to tell you, unfortunately...strange.
I went to my local Play N Trade since they can repair anything, even retro. The repairs guy confirmed that it was definitely the wrong bit since it is not keyed in properly compared to the screws on the Duo. He even tried to open up an n64 system, but no dice. Too bad he couldn't find his gamebit. The screws on my Duo are the same ones as the Genesis carts. What a headache... Where did you buy your gamebit from??
Play N Trade's generally have trouble doing repairs for systems they either don't have an outside vendor to repair or are not in their guidebook.
Added in edit: After consulting a friend of mine who was employed at one. Most of what they do internally at his store is simple NES 72 pin connector swaps. Everything else they were sending out to a vendor. It's on a franchise by franchise basis apparently.
I'm guessing you went to the one next to the movie theatre in Downtown Elmhurst?
In any event, I bought the correct gamebit from Nintendo Repair Shop online.
Yep, I went to Play N Trade in Elmhurst, it's only a half mile from my house. The guy who does repairs, Steve, has worked with gamebits before. He seems to know what he is talkin about. He is excellent at soldering stuff as he has fixed many RROD for 360s. I will probably seek his advice on how to solder since I have never done that before. The guys there are awesome.
I will look into the nintendo repair site after I email the peops (ncsx.com) who sold me the wrong gamebit. I think. There is a label on the baggie where gamebit came that says 22-1150. Did your gamebit have a similar description?
Thanks,
I've bought from NCS many many many times. Not usually had a problem. My gamebit (I bought two different ones from Nintendo repair shop at the time) literally arrived in a regular envelop in a tiny baggie with an invoice.
Added in edit:As far as that play N trade goes. I like the people there. I never find much product I want there however. Whereas I've had better luck finding retro stuff I want at some of the other Play N trades in the area. Cool people there though. I've been there 20-30 times, some of the employees recognize me there by now.
The downside to that Play N Trade is the location. Living only a half a mile from there is one of the few ways to actually get to that play n trade since downtown Elmhurst has practically no parking. I usually park all the way down by Hamburger Heaven and just walk whenever I go to that one.
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: chany60126 on June 12, 2010, 08:20:53 AM
From the picture, appears you have the correct style bit. DON'T understand it's ability to open a Genesis game. Are the screws in the Genesis the same as the screws in your Duo? Got anybody local to you that handles such matters? Try Craigslist, if present for your vicinity. Don't know what to tell you, unfortunately...strange.
I went to my local Play N Trade since they can repair anything, even retro. The repairs guy confirmed that it was definitely the wrong bit since it is not keyed in properly compared to the screws on the Duo. He even tried to open up an n64 system, but no dice. Too bad he couldn't find his gamebit. The screws on my Duo are the same ones as the Genesis carts. What a headache... Where did you buy your gamebit from??
Play N Trade's generally have trouble doing repairs for systems they either don't have an outside vendor to repair or are not in their guidebook.
Added in edit: After consulting a friend of mine who was employed at one. Most of what they do internally at his store is simple NES 72 pin connector swaps. Everything else they were sending out to a vendor. It's on a franchise by franchise basis apparently.
I'm guessing you went to the one next to the movie theatre in Downtown Elmhurst?
In any event, I bought the correct gamebit from Nintendo Repair Shop online.
Yep, I went to Play N Trade in Elmhurst, it's only a half mile from my house. The guy who does repairs, Steve, has worked with gamebits before. He seems to know what he is talkin about. He is excellent at soldering stuff as he has fixed many RROD for 360s. I will probably seek his advice on how to solder since I have never done that before. The guys there are awesome.
I will look into the nintendo repair site after I email the peops (ncsx.com) who sold me the wrong gamebit. I think. There is a label on the baggie where gamebit came that says 22-1150. Did your gamebit have a similar description?
Thanks,
I've bought from NCS many many many times. Not usually had a problem. My gamebit (I bought two different ones from Nintendo repair shop at the time) literally arrived in a regular envelop in a tiny baggie with an invoice.
Added in edit:As far as that play N trade goes. I like the people there. I never find much product I want there however. Whereas I've had better luck finding retro stuff I want at some of the other Play N trades in the area. Cool people there though. I've been there 20-30 times, some of the employees recognize me there by now.
The downside to that Play N Trade is the location. Living only a half a mile from there is one of the few ways to actually get to that play n trade since downtown Elmhurst has practically no parking. I usually park all the way down by Hamburger Heaven and just walk whenever I go to that one.
The Elmhurst Play N Trade is pretty good. They get some good stuff from time to time. I go there at least once a week since bank is right across the street. I am astonished to hear that you park all the way by Hamburger Heaven. You should park at the Chase/Walgreens parking lot right in front of the store. Chill out at Walgreens for a bit just to play it safe. I have found some pretty nice finds at Elmhurst PNT. In fact, I picked up Splatterhouse 2 and 3 for a combined $20 about a month and a half ago. The only other PNT i've been to is in bloomingdale right in front of Stratford mall, but I believe that one closed. Which ones do you like??
On a side note, I was surprised to see that the Microcenter carries 4.5 gamebits!! They are Out of stock but I'll visit the one in westmont and see if they'll order one for me.
From the picture, appears you have the correct style bit. DON'T understand it's ability to open a Genesis game. Are the screws in the Genesis the same as the screws in your Duo? Got anybody local to you that handles such matters? Try Craigslist, if present for your vicinity. Don't know what to tell you, unfortunately...strange.
I went to my local Play N Trade since they can repair anything, even retro. The repairs guy confirmed that it was definitely the wrong bit since it is not keyed in properly compared to the screws on the Duo. He even tried to open up an n64 system, but no dice. Too bad he couldn't find his gamebit. The screws on my Duo are the same ones as the Genesis carts. What a headache... Where did you buy your gamebit from??
Play N Trade's generally have trouble doing repairs for systems they either don't have an outside vendor to repair or are not in their guidebook.
Added in edit: After consulting a friend of mine who was employed at one. Most of what they do internally at his store is simple NES 72 pin connector swaps. Everything else they were sending out to a vendor. It's on a franchise by franchise basis apparently.
I'm guessing you went to the one next to the movie theatre in Downtown Elmhurst?
In any event, I bought the correct gamebit from Nintendo Repair Shop online.
Yep, I went to Play N Trade in Elmhurst, it's only a half mile from my house. The guy who does repairs, Steve, has worked with gamebits before. He seems to know what he is talkin about. He is excellent at soldering stuff as he has fixed many RROD for 360s. I will probably seek his advice on how to solder since I have never done that before. The guys there are awesome.
I will look into the nintendo repair site after I email the peops (ncsx.com) who sold me the wrong gamebit. I think. There is a label on the baggie where gamebit came that says 22-1150. Did your gamebit have a similar description?
Thanks,
I've bought from NCS many many many times. Not usually had a problem. My gamebit (I bought two different ones from Nintendo repair shop at the time) literally arrived in a regular envelop in a tiny baggie with an invoice.
Added in edit:As far as that play N trade goes. I like the people there. I never find much product I want there however. Whereas I've had better luck finding retro stuff I want at some of the other Play N trades in the area. Cool people there though. I've been there 20-30 times, some of the employees recognize me there by now.
The downside to that Play N Trade is the location. Living only a half a mile from there is one of the few ways to actually get to that play n trade since downtown Elmhurst has practically no parking. I usually park all the way down by Hamburger Heaven and just walk whenever I go to that one.
The Elmhurst Play N Trade is pretty good. They get some good stuff from time to time. I go there at least once a week since bank is right across the street. I am astonished to hear that you park all the way by Hamburger Heaven. You should park at the Chase/Walgreens parking lot right in front of the store. Chill out at Walgreens for a bit just to play it safe. I have found some pretty nice finds at Elmhurst PNT. In fact, I picked up Splatterhouse 2 and 3 for a combined $20 about a month and a half ago. The only other PNT i've been to is in bloomingdale right in front of Stratford mall, but I believe that one closed. Which ones do you like??
On a side note, I was surprised to see that the Microcenter carries 4.5 gamebits!! They are Out of stock but I'll visit the one in westmont and see if they'll order one for me.
The parking by Walgreens is always full, I've had to park in the multi level parking which is only available certain hours closer to the train tracks a few times.
The Bloomingdale play n trade is terrible as far as what retro stuff they get, I work almost directly across the street from it and am there frequently, it's still in business (I saw a thing on Craigslist saying they were closed but they're still there) but it's not really visible from Gary Avenue and most people don't know it's there). As far as Play N Trades go, The better ones are Naperville, and North Aurora. I've also had good luck with Batavia.
In general People Play Games and Videogames etc have better product anyway.
But yeah, Elmhurst PNT is a nice store and it's much better than bloomingdale. But I've not had good luck finding stuff there.
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: chany60126 on June 12, 2010, 03:26:43 PM
From the picture, appears you have the correct style bit. DON'T understand it's ability to open a Genesis game. Are the screws in the Genesis the same as the screws in your Duo? Got anybody local to you that handles such matters? Try Craigslist, if present for your vicinity. Don't know what to tell you, unfortunately...strange.
I went to my local Play N Trade since they can repair anything, even retro. The repairs guy confirmed that it was definitely the wrong bit since it is not keyed in properly compared to the screws on the Duo. He even tried to open up an n64 system, but no dice. Too bad he couldn't find his gamebit. The screws on my Duo are the same ones as the Genesis carts. What a headache... Where did you buy your gamebit from??
Play N Trade's generally have trouble doing repairs for systems they either don't have an outside vendor to repair or are not in their guidebook.
Added in edit: After consulting a friend of mine who was employed at one. Most of what they do internally at his store is simple NES 72 pin connector swaps. Everything else they were sending out to a vendor. It's on a franchise by franchise basis apparently.
I'm guessing you went to the one next to the movie theatre in Downtown Elmhurst?
In any event, I bought the correct gamebit from Nintendo Repair Shop online.
Yep, I went to Play N Trade in Elmhurst, it's only a half mile from my house. The guy who does repairs, Steve, has worked with gamebits before. He seems to know what he is talkin about. He is excellent at soldering stuff as he has fixed many RROD for 360s. I will probably seek his advice on how to solder since I have never done that before. The guys there are awesome.
I will look into the nintendo repair site after I email the peops (ncsx.com) who sold me the wrong gamebit. I think. There is a label on the baggie where gamebit came that says 22-1150. Did your gamebit have a similar description?
Thanks,
I've bought from NCS many many many times. Not usually had a problem. My gamebit (I bought two different ones from Nintendo repair shop at the time) literally arrived in a regular envelop in a tiny baggie with an invoice.
Added in edit:As far as that play N trade goes. I like the people there. I never find much product I want there however. Whereas I've had better luck finding retro stuff I want at some of the other Play N trades in the area. Cool people there though. I've been there 20-30 times, some of the employees recognize me there by now.
The downside to that Play N Trade is the location. Living only a half a mile from there is one of the few ways to actually get to that play n trade since downtown Elmhurst has practically no parking. I usually park all the way down by Hamburger Heaven and just walk whenever I go to that one.
The Elmhurst Play N Trade is pretty good. They get some good stuff from time to time. I go there at least once a week since bank is right across the street. I am astonished to hear that you park all the way by Hamburger Heaven. You should park at the Chase/Walgreens parking lot right in front of the store. Chill out at Walgreens for a bit just to play it safe. I have found some pretty nice finds at Elmhurst PNT. In fact, I picked up Splatterhouse 2 and 3 for a combined $20 about a month and a half ago. The only other PNT i've been to is in bloomingdale right in front of Stratford mall, but I believe that one closed. Which ones do you like??
On a side note, I was surprised to see that the Microcenter carries 4.5 gamebits!! They are Out of stock but I'll visit the one in westmont and see if they'll order one for me.
The parking by Walgreens is always full, I've had to park in the multi level parking which is only available certain hours closer to the train tracks a few times.
The Bloomingdale play n trade is terrible as far as what retro stuff they get, I work almost directly across the street from it and am there frequently, it's still in business (I saw a thing on Craigslist saying they were closed but they're still there) but it's not really visible from Gary Avenue and most people don't know it's there). As far as Play N Trades go, The better ones are Naperville, and North Aurora. I've also had good luck with Batavia.
In general People Play Games and Videogames etc have better product anyway.
But yeah, Elmhurst PNT is a nice store and it's much better than bloomingdale. But I've not had good luck finding stuff there.
It's good to hear that the one in Bloomingdale is still open, I did see the ad on CL that it was closing. Very odd... There is a new PNT that just opened in Melrose on north ave. I will probably wait a little bit for them to accumulate some retro games.
People Play Games and Video Games Etc are awesome. Their prices for nes/snes games are a little iffy, but their assortment of T-16, neo geo, and other retro stuff definitely make it worth the trip to those locations.
Hopefully I can get a good gamebit soon. I would love to have my turbo duo's sound problems fixed before the Video Game Summit in Lombard comes along since I am heading the Turbo Fest booth. At least I have my T-16 + CD that works great, but that would be a big load to carry around.
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: onetunafish on July 22, 2010, 12:09:22 PM
Hello all!
I think I might have a similar problem, except with a CD-ROM 2 Unit.
Similar symptoms:
- Cd-rom audio goes silent or out of sync after a while in some games (ie rondo of blood) - the cd-rom audio quality is really bad, cracks and static noise, even playing music cds - In one game the sprites don't show up at all (martial champions) - Every now and then the just a moment seems to go on forever
From what I've read, it might need to replace some caps, clean the laser lens and/or adjust it or even replace the whole cd reader. I couldn't find which caps to replace on the CD-ROM unit, would any body be kind enough to point those out to me? I took a quick glance at it but I didn't see any poped caps or signs of leakage but I'm no expert. Any help is very much appreciated.
Ed
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: chop5 on August 01, 2010, 07:14:31 PM
Just thinking out loud while working on a duo with the sound issue after the cap change:
Didn't know the volume knob effected the av sound thought it was for headphone only. Sound was very crackly at first but when I turned the knob down returned to almost normal. Like an old radio or player with the sound to loud. Could this be the culprit for the final sound issues we have? Not turning it down but that whole region effecting the general sound because its faulty or needs repair. Like could it be cut out or removed all together? Like those audiophiles do with ps1's so all they have is the main audio center without it diverting to other areas on the board.
So far from all the duos Ive worked on I think I know how the whole mess started. The big non smt caps near the heat sink over time and use leaked HUGE amounts of fluid that got under the sound caps and since they are smt and closed off the fluid cant drain or evaporate causing the smt caps to malfunction and causing shorts and rust around the pins making them look black when you pull them off the board. I have found liquid under caps in that area and thought it was fluid from the smt cap itself but its too much. Also this fluid seeps thru the via's and leaks to the bottom of the board causing all kinds of damage. If the fluid can cause shorts and rust under the caps it can do worse to any chip it meets. The huge caps even tho they leaked fluid that you can swab under them to see it,were checked with a cap meter and were still under acceptable working condition. What worries me is that I have changed alot of those big caps and will more fluid leak again over time? Perhaps larger and more heat resistant caps are needed. I need more duos to work on to be sure.
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: spaceheater on August 27, 2010, 03:57:45 PM
hey guys! I recently pulled out my Turboduo to play a little Lords of Thunder only to realize my Duo is suffering from popping/fading into no redbook audio issue. :x Thanks to this forum, I know what the problem is and how to fix it.
So far I've been looking for someone able to repair these things, but no dice...
I don't have much experience with soldering (as in: none), but having bought myself an iron, a small PCB, and a cap to play around with I've discovered I can actually solder! So I'm considering doing the cap replacement myself. I've got a security bit and opened the system already, its just a matter of building up the confidence to do the replacement.
I do have a question about this tho: is there any special consideration I have to use when buying caps or will any do? I understand the capacitance and voltages, but I was worried about other capacitor ratings like resistance or even if I should stick with using the little smd v-chip capacitors. The reason I'm asking is Radio Shack is a total rip-off on these things (its >$1 a cap), and I want to make sure I order the right thing when buying from an on-line dealer selling something better at a tenth of RS' price.
just to let you know, my next step is asking for advice on how to go about gutting the system to reach the caps, so now's a good time to send some panicked "NO DON'T DO THAT!!1" pms before I potentially ruin my system. If push comes to shove, I'll blog my progress for you guys. I don't have a job, so I have plenty of time.
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: PigInTheMud on September 04, 2010, 03:53:33 PM
I would definitely recommend purchasing the caps from mouser.com 8 cents to 30 cents per a capacitor.
Make sure that: The capacitors are Aluminum Electrolytic Capacitors - Leaded. The capacitance(most important) and voltage are the same. The minus side of the capacitor get's soldered onto the minus hole. Don't let your soldering iron touch anything except the board and the wire parts of the capacitors. Remove all static from your body by touching something that is metal and grounded before dealing with the board. Don't wear socks (especially on carpet) Try to remove oils from your hands. GET FLUX! It helps so much with soldering things together! http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2049774
That's about all that I can think of when soldering video game consoles
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: BlueBMW on September 11, 2010, 11:42:16 AM
I did the sound fix on a new / broken duo I got. I tried the two 10uf caps first, but that didnt correct my problem. (left channel quiet, and right channel cutting out randomly) So here's some PCB pron pics of what I found! Sounds works perfectly now!
Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us/)
Now my question, are all the 4558's on the Duo boards the same? There are other 4558's on the top of the Duo boards, but they have different codes printed on them. I don't see any reason they should be any different but wanted to see what you guys think.
So far I swapped out the 4558 on the left, but still no ADPCM!
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: BlueBMW on November 13, 2010, 01:05:29 PM
As far as I know 4558 is a standard code for that particular chip (its an op amp of some variation right?) the other numbers are probably just batch numbers or serial numbers or mfg numbers.
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: Duo_R on November 13, 2010, 01:44:03 PM
update - I replaced the 4558 on the right, and the BU4053BF....and still no ADPCM. I also swapped another cap just in case it was bad (replacement). I gotta say I am not seeing any hope on this one. How about the 4558 near the audio circuit. maybe that one could have gone bad with all the leaking caps? Would that be related to ADPCM somehow?
Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us/)
Now my question, are all the 4558's on the Duo boards the same? There are other 4558's on the top of the Duo boards, but they have different codes printed on them. I don't see any reason they should be any different but wanted to see what you guys think.
So far I swapped out the 4558 on the left, but still no ADPCM!
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: BlueBMW on November 13, 2010, 01:48:36 PM
I'll just assume you've done all the caps near the audio circuit yes?
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: Duo_R on November 13, 2010, 01:54:18 PM
I kid you not...100% cap replacement. EVERY damn cap!!!
I'll just assume you've done all the caps near the audio circuit yes?
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: BlueBMW on November 13, 2010, 01:57:55 PM
Haha, i can see how that could get VERY frustrating then! hmmm... well if there are any donor chips you need that a US Turbo CD mobo might have, let me know I've got a bad TGCD mobo laying around.
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: Duo_R on November 14, 2010, 01:03:07 PM
Ok I was talking to Chop last night and he gave me the idea that there might be a bad trace. I took some time and checked the adpcm circuit and discovered that one of the 4558 chips was not grounded....because if a bad trace. After booting up Gates if Thunder....i heard Bonk speak for the first time in a couple years! Now a side effect, for some reason the sound volume is now extremely low. It previously was running low about 40% of normal levels, now it is about 20%. Same if using the headphone Jack. Any theories here? Perhaps the 4558 in the sound circuit has failed? I feel like I am very close to full revival of my Duo that I have had since 1992!!!
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: Charlie on January 07, 2011, 07:06:54 PM
Hey, Shouldn't this topic: "No sound on right sound channel (ADPCM fixed)" be made a part of this thread? It seems to be a continuation, or at least a closely related subject.
Or, I could just post the schematic here??
Charlie
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: Duo_R on January 07, 2011, 07:09:50 PM
It could but how exactly do you sticky two threads together?
Hey, Shouldn't this topic: "No sound on right sound channel (ADPCM fixed)" be made a part of this thread? It seems to be a continuation, or at least a closely related subject.
Or, I could just post the schematic here??
Charlie
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: Charlie on January 08, 2011, 12:31:09 AM
Don't know, but... I have occasionally seen a post in one thread move to another thread. Can't that same thing be done on in this case? (although it may mean a lot of one-at-a-time message moving). Or just make the second thread a second sticky, and reference one to the other?
But I think that, given the prevalence of audio problems on Duo's, we should make sure that the info, the schematic, and the success here is readily "findable".
Just a thought. Charlie
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: Duo_R on January 08, 2011, 05:48:50 AM
The trouble is when these threads get 20 pages deep, who is going to take the time to go through all this?
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: Charlie on January 08, 2011, 12:44:08 PM
The same people, myself included, that go through 2+ years worth of threads to find that one single bit of elusive data they need. That's how I got started here. But I agree that moving 20 pages of posts is a lot of work. Too bad there is not a way to link the two threads. Guess it just means a lot of exercise for the Search Engine.
Charlie
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: BlueBMW on January 09, 2011, 02:00:07 AM
The same people, myself included, that go through 2+ years worth of threads to find that one single bit of elusive data they need. That's how I got started here. But I agree that moving 20 pages of posts is a lot of work. Too bad there is not a way to link the two threads. Guess it just means a lot of exercise for the Search Engine. Charlie
Cant you link directly to a post number? Maybe the original poster (if they're still around) could add links to the first post that go directly to the golden nugget posts deeper in the thread.
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: nat on January 09, 2011, 06:12:58 AM
I can merge that thread into this one, but the result won't be pretty. The messages are merged chronologically, so, the posts from the other thread will get inserted in between messages from this thread, resulting in total fragmentation of each individual conversation.... If you catch my drift.
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: Duo_R on January 09, 2011, 06:35:55 AM
yeah that wouldn't be great. Maybe a reference to the other thread in the first post somehow?
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: Charlie on January 10, 2011, 10:03:27 AM
Definitely don't want the chronological screw-up, it would defeat the purpose of making important info readily available.
What if we made this thread itself a sticky, and just referenced each one to the other one?
Charlie
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: esteban on January 17, 2011, 11:28:38 PM
I think you figured out the solution:
(1) Revise the topic of the thread(s) to be as informative as possible (and reflect all the topics discussed) (2) Revise the first post of each thread with a "Table of Contents" as well as a cross-reference to other thread(s).
Now, since D-Lite may not be around to make these edits for this thread, well :(
I can, however, revise my reply (#2 in this thread) as a desperate, futile attempt to help others.
TANGENT: Just a thought... Also, if anyone is interested, I'd be happy to host standard html versions of particularly useful/reliable information on my site. It should be preserved for posterity... especially all the images that have only temporary homes.
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: pixeljunkie on January 21, 2011, 08:00:50 AM
I think I might have a similar problem, except with a CD-ROM 2 Unit.
Similar symptoms:
- Cd-rom audio goes silent or out of sync after a while in some games (ie rondo of blood) - the cd-rom audio quality is really bad, cracks and static noise, even playing music cds - In one game the sprites don't show up at all (martial champions) - Every now and then the just a moment seems to go on forever
From what I've read, it might need to replace some caps, clean the laser lens and/or adjust it or even replace the whole cd reader. I couldn't find which caps to replace on the CD-ROM unit, would any body be kind enough to point those out to me? I took a quick glance at it but I didn't see any poped caps or signs of leakage but I'm no expert. Any help is very much appreciated.
Ed
me and a friend are having pretty much the same problems and are equally curious of a solution. Quoting you for emphasis :)
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: chriscomputers on January 29, 2011, 09:51:22 AM
I wanted to post something I have done to fix two duo units with audio problems to help others out. I have repaired two units where changing the caps did not fix the problem. I was getting very distorted sound but head phones were fine. I ended up having to run two wires from the last two caps(positive end) to the solder points on the board for the audio cable. I can't think of what part on the baord actually is bad but this fixed it for me. Picture shown below. Anyone have any idea what part actually went bad? Maybe a tiny resister under the board?(http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/5664/img0142hj8.html) (http://img441.imageshack.us/i/img0142hj8.jpg/)
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: Charlie on January 30, 2011, 10:28:25 AM
You may have a problem here, if those caps are C678 and C679. The positive end of those caps has a DC voltge on it, which is the output of the amps. A short on those pins (caused by something with low impedance connected to the output jack) can very well damage the chips, as well as putting a DC voltage on whatever you have connected to the output jack. You should actually come off the negative side of those caps. But, I notice in your pix that the capacitors are installed with the neg end toward the chips....are you sure you installed the new caps properly, and have not reversed them? If so, you have actually connected to the proper point on the PCB (which means, no, you DON'T have DC on the outputs), but the caps are reversed polarized.
Please double check this.
As for what parts are in that circuit, the abbreviated schematic (including the cap polarity) is available here: http://www.pcenginefx.com/forums/index.php?topic=7328.msg153079#msg153079
Charlie
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: chriscomputers on January 30, 2011, 07:27:13 PM
From looking at the board the plus side is on the left where my lines are drawn.
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: Charlie on January 31, 2011, 01:40:50 AM
I'm not saying you are wrong, just that it SEEMS wrong. I'll have to check my notes. Thanks for the double check.
Edit: Yup, at first check, it looks like the caps are placed correctly. This means I'll have to go back and check the circuit on the board itself, and maybe edit my schematics to show the caps properly..
As to the actual problem, between the jack and the caps are the coils and the anti-thump circuit. This consists of a set of transistors that turn off the audio when the system is first turned on. Other than that, you may just have a bad connection someplace. I'll check it out and get more details....post later.
Thanks for your patience.
Charlie
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: Charlie on February 04, 2011, 02:51:30 PM
Finally figured out what was bugging me. As I said, it SEEMED wrong....because it is. But it has nothing to do with the cap polarity or changing the schematic. You have jumped the output of the headphone amps directly to the AV connector! No wonder you could make the comment that the headphones worked, and that this "fixed" the problem....you connected the AV plug into the working headphone audio. You've completely jumped over the AV amplifier circuitry, which is where the anti-thump and coil circuitry is. Those caps that you have connected to, do NOT (normally) go to the AV output.
Charlie
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: chriscomputers on February 04, 2011, 07:04:54 PM
Hmmm, so do you possibly know what part of the board was bad? I changed the two caps I ran the wires from and also the main three caps from the preamp as well. Maybe there were more needing to be changed?
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: nat on February 04, 2011, 08:30:27 PM
Did you clean the board before replacing the capacitors? Replacing the capacitors w/o cleaning just stops the bleeding; the next-to-invisible electrolytic gunk that leaked from the old caps is still present on the board, usually shorting things in the process.
Also, there are other capacitors in the audio circuit than the ones you just replaced. See Charlie's schematic for specifics. In addition, there is one way out in the middle of nowhere that isn't obviously connected to the audio, but it is. IIRC it's the one in bottom right corner of the above image, I think it's C512 although it could be C521 or C525. It's been so long I just don't remember, but it seems to me it didn't have anything else near it.
My Duo started in with the "scratchy" sound at one point, and I replaced everything obviously tied in with the audio. Didn't fix it. I started replacing caps one at a time, by the time I'd replaced nearly 75% of all the caps on the board, I replaced that C512 (or whatever it was) and the problem went away. This was almost three years ago, and I haven't had any sound issues since. I don't see C512 anywhere on Charlie's audio schematic, so I'm not sure what role it plays in the audio circuit but it obviously does SOMETHING.
But, again, replacing caps without cleaning the PCB (preferably via a dishwasher cycle) is.... well, think of the Duo like an engine with a bad oil leak. So you fix the oil leak, but don't replace the oil that leaked out prior to repair. The engine still has a hard time because it's missing three quarts of oil. You need to address the residual effect of the problem, not just the problem itself.
If you've already cleaned the board, good on you.... You have another bad capacitor somewhere. Just replace everything mentioned in the schematic and go from there.
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: Charlie on February 05, 2011, 01:06:38 AM
C512 is the VCC power cap for U513 (or IC513), the BAFFA RAM.
Charlie
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: bernielindell on May 08, 2011, 09:35:10 AM
Just to let everyone know, D-Lite is still actively working on systems for people. I have bought a PC engine Duo, which was totally refurbished and have been nothing but pleased. I recently placed an order for a Duo R with him, and should have that one soon. I would also like to add that his prices are awesome. His website is here http://multimods.com/ . Sometimes he takes a bit to respond to emails, but he always gets back to you. Real life has a tendency to get in the way of our hobbies sometimes! lol.
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: Charlie on May 26, 2011, 11:09:01 AM
An "out-of-scope" question about the DUO was raised in the "REPAIR GUIDE - TG16 CD/PCE CD laser swap guide " thread, so I put the answer here, and added a reference note there --------------------------------------- Couldn't find a "Q304", but I did find a "U304"; it's the POR (Power-On Reset) chip, not a regulator. However, it is connected directly to U302, which IS a regulator. It provides power for the ADPCM (U502), the DAC (U201), and the anti-thump, mute, and de-emphesis circuits. I expect that it is the routing of the tracks that caused the bad connection to be physically at the pin on the U304, but electrically U304 is not involved with actually supplying power to anything.
Good catch! Charlie
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: thesteve on May 29, 2011, 06:40:45 AM
Q304 is the power supply for the sound circuits. its located behind IC505
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: Charlie on May 29, 2011, 11:40:11 AM
Aha! Found it. Its a 2SC2412 PNP used as a diode regulator at 8.2VDC. It provides 8VDC VCC for quite a number of IC's in the audio section. This same 8 volts also provides a 4VDC source for other uses.
And, now that I think of it, I am pretty sure I mentioned this transistor before in some post of my own quite a while back! (Charlie slaps forehead with palm - DOH!). Must be getting old; I'll look it up later.
Anyway, thanks!
Charlie
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: thesteve on May 30, 2011, 07:37:43 AM
its an NPN used as a current amp for a diode regulator. the part number looks good. the circuit provides 8.2v at the base and a current source (about 9V) at the collector. the transistor provides 7.7V (~8V) at the emitter
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: Charlie on May 30, 2011, 01:17:42 PM
NPN it is, the damn "arrow" on the emitter is so small, I can't really see it; probably should have looked up the part number to verify.
Charlie
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: thesteve on June 03, 2011, 05:14:02 AM
so i gather you have the schematics and part lists for the DUO?
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: chop5 on June 05, 2011, 09:10:56 PM
A sound issue duo me and steve fixed over the last few weeks over chat.
symptoms: Almost zero sound but if tv is volume on maximum can hear it softly,same for headphones. Some volt meter reads showed it was this op amp chip:
Replaced with near identical op amp chips I got from ebay and sound was restored but static developed and slowly sound will fade in and out depending on the duos mood or me touching the board or touch with toothpick in sensitive area. Much meter and sound probe testing found the trace and some via's going to the new chip were bad. You can see a blackened via in the first picture near pin 5 of ic503. The second bad trace and via was to chip leg 3 of the ic503. bypass was made:
The damaged via near pin 5 was fixed with wire and solder to both sides after a bit of scraping with a tiny star screwdriver till shiny copper was seen. the trace and via of pin 3 was just bypassed shown in second pic. The trace for pin 3 lead to those 2 resistors r321 and r322,it forked into both of them so used a small drop of solder connecting them to the wire like in a T formation. Static is all gone full sound restored. thank you steve :)
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: roflmao on June 06, 2011, 12:25:45 AM
You guys rock.
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: mrchuck999 on July 16, 2011, 01:55:41 PM
Hi Guys: I've been reading this thread today because my USA DUO suddenly has very-soft red-book audio while the chip sounds (guns) are loud and clear. with headphones I can just hear a Music CD play. But a game fire-shots are loud and clear.
This was called problem #2 in an early post. But I never found a clear documented cause-solution. Has any one fixed the "very-quiet" red-book audio (music)? It seems this issue should be caused by a cap dedicated to the CD red-book audio and not the same as over-all low volume.
Thanks for your wisdom. I love this site and all the work from Red-ghost & D-Lite. You know you're awesome!
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: BlueBMW on July 16, 2011, 04:01:44 PM
Hi Guys: I've been reading this thread today because my USA DUO suddenly has very-soft red-book audio while the chip sounds (guns) are loud and clear. with headphones I can just hear a Music CD play. But a game fire-shots are loud and clear.
This was called problem #2 in an early post. But I never found a clear documented cause-solution. Has any one fixed the "very-quiet" red-book audio (music)? It seems this issue should be caused by a cap dedicated to the CD red-book audio and not the same as over-all low volume.
Thanks for your wisdom. I love this site and all the work from Red-ghost & D-Lite. You know you're awesome!
At this point, all these Duos are at the age where most if not all the capacitors have started to leak/dry up/ fail. As such, if you're going to open the system to replace any of the caps, it would be prudent to go ahead and replace them all. :P
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: thesteve on July 16, 2011, 05:26:34 PM
i have seen some corroded traces/vias do that as well as bad caps
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: boliver on August 04, 2011, 12:14:37 AM
in case its useful to anyone, i had the too quiet cd audio problem with my Duo, and i was able to fix it by replacing the top rightmost 22 cap.
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: Nagoyan on August 21, 2011, 04:22:15 PM
Thanks to everyone for all the great info in this thread! My Duo's CD sound recently started to go and replacing the caps seemed to fix the problem. However, while soldering in one of the post-amp caps, one of the solder pads became loose and I'm intermittently losing one of the audio channels. Are there any methods out there I can use to get that pad fixed back in place?
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: thesteve on August 21, 2011, 05:38:45 PM
the best fix for a loose pad is to run a wire to the run, or another point it connected to
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: Nagoyan on August 22, 2011, 06:39:51 AM
Thanks for your help! I'm pretty new at this sort of thing, so is the run similar to the trace on the PCB? Just to the side of the square-shaped capacitor trace there's a small solder point and I wonder if that's the spot I can connect a wire to from the capacitor terminal. Figure I'd better have a plan B worked out if any more pads go when I replace the rest of the caps in the future.
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: thesteve on August 22, 2011, 07:44:41 AM
the term run and trace are interchangable
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: Nagoyan on August 22, 2011, 09:55:02 AM
I see. Thanks again for the info!
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: gamereviewgod on August 31, 2011, 06:11:14 PM
Thanks for the thread! I fixed my Turbo Express earlier in the week and now my Duo has redbook back... partially. I only have audio out of the right channel. I bought a new AV cord and it's still doing it. I'm assuming it's one of the other caps, but what I can't figure out is how to get the metal plating off. It looks thickly soldered to another component.
Can it just be cut out or does it serve a purpose? I'm assuming the two wires soldered to it are just the grounds, right?
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: thesteve on August 31, 2011, 06:21:41 PM
i move the 2 wires to the lower shield and resolder. the top shield is soldered to the controller port and will need to be heated/unsoldered. the system runs fine without it, but i reinstall it when done
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: gamereviewgod on September 01, 2011, 07:26:20 AM
i move the 2 wires to the lower shield and resolder. the top shield is soldered to the controller port and will need to be heated/unsoldered. the system runs fine without it, but i reinstall it when done
Is it just an RF shield?
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: thesteve on September 01, 2011, 07:48:00 AM
yes its just an rf sheild
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: gamereviewgod on September 05, 2011, 03:06:54 PM
Just finished. The 22uf one sitting under the shield was A MESS. It has leaked everywhere. Took me 10 minutes just to see clear metal on the pad again. After all of that though, I have full stereo audio back, and I'm happy. Thanks again to everyone who has worked on this!
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: thesteve on September 05, 2011, 03:34:14 PM
your welcome
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: Bernie on September 06, 2011, 12:23:13 AM
This place is awesome. Its good we have the techs here that we do. I dont want to perform any kinda surgery on my systems.
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: Mystery on December 02, 2011, 03:19:39 AM
Hi guys
I recently got my hands on a PCE Duo which was supposed to be working, except for missing sound. I bought it and thought that a simple cap replacement would do the job. After some online research I stumbled upon this awesome forum and after reading this thread, I was pretty sure that the system could be easily repaired. When I opened it up, I saw that one of the previous owners already replaced quite a handful of caps around the 4558 amps. I got a little bit worried.
Long story short, I did a full cap replacement (finding a few additional leaky caps in the process), but unfortunately, the problem still persists.
I have full sound from HU card or CD (redbook audio, adpcm etc.), but it's almost inaudible, both on the AV out and the headphone jack.
What could be the cause of this? I'm considering replacing the 4558 op amps. Could that work? Or does the current problem suggest a different approach/solution?
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: BlueBMW on December 02, 2011, 07:34:21 AM
If you have a meter... look up the data sheet for those 4558 op amps and check the power supply pin... we've had a few units where cap fluid causes the transistor that powers some of the audio chips to fail. Result is no / very low sound.
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: Mystery on December 03, 2011, 07:24:36 PM
Yes, I've got a meter. I checked all six 4558 amps and they all get power.
I made some progress, thanks to some very helpful PMs.
I got regular SFX and CD audio working on the headphones, by hooking the output of the upper 4558 (close to the AV port) amp to the L/R channels on the headphone jack. It's just a workaround and not really a fix, but for now it's working.
However, the ADPCM sound is still very faint. I can (barely) hear it, if nothing else plays, but that doesn't really do it for regular gameplay ;) I put a wire from the M5205's pin10 to one of the 4558 input pins (not permanently, just for testing the ADPCM output) and I got crystal clear sound from it. However, just on one channel, and adding a trace to the other input pin screws the whole sound up.
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: thesteve on December 04, 2011, 11:32:10 AM
2 points 1. adpcm is 1 channel. 2. it sounds like you losing it around the AVC.
the avc is voltage controlled, the last one i did wasnt getting the control voltage to it due to a bad via
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: Mystery on December 05, 2011, 06:36:55 AM
I know. Perhaps I didn't phrase my attempt to get it working correctly. I was just stating, that when I put the ADPCM to one of the AV amp inputs, it came out crystal clear, but when I put the same output from the ADPCM pin10 to the other AV amp input at the same time, the whole sound got messed up. I'm aware that it's not stereo, but I still have to get the signal on both channels somehow :)
Quote
2. it sounds like you losing it around the AVC. the avc is voltage controlled, the last one i did wasnt getting the control voltage to it due to a bad via
Anything I can do to test that theory and if necessary fix it?
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: thesteve on December 05, 2011, 09:09:28 AM
i dont have the data sheet in front of me for the AVC (the ZIP chip by the heatsinks) but i traced the sound to its inputs, with nothing out. checked the voltages on the control pins per the data sheet.
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: SNKNostalgia on December 21, 2011, 04:51:07 PM
Sighhhh, my US Duo's right sound channel is quiet. I didn't even touch the system in like 3 months. It worked fine last time I played it. At least I can play it in mono (left) sound for now. I need to get another 3.5mm to RCA cable and use it with headphone output to make sure it is just the AV out or the stock Duo AV cable. Fun, fun, fun!!! Man US Duo's suck ass!!! Seriously though, up there with RROD on Xbox 360s... hell probably worse.
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: BlueBMW on December 22, 2011, 12:00:35 AM
Nahh... Duos arent worse than RROD. We can fix them without expensive crazy reball equipment! And, it did take some 20 years for them to fail, not 1 or 2 like those silly xboxes.
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: Necromancer on December 22, 2011, 01:47:54 AM
Actually, I heard of a lot of Duo systems sound going out 10 years ago. So I am going to more than assume this has been going on for a while now.
Of course some failed ten years ago but not all of 'em or even a majority. How many first run 360s do you think will be alive in 2015 without help? I'd say 10% would be generous.
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: SNKNostalgia on December 22, 2011, 09:35:55 PM
In the long run they will end up the same. The Duo CD drive isn't all to reliable as well. I had to replace the lens once without even playing scratched up game discs or CD-Rs. I ended up buying 4 replacements and tried out a few CD-Rs burned using the best media/method possible, since I felt like I had nothing to lose with the replacement lenses in stock.
Yes, all 360 first designs have roughly a 90% failure rate in the long run. I seriously doubt years from now a first working model 360 will run you up that much cash though. We have to at least admit that the black Duo models are a huge risk in longevity.
The point I am making is that black Duo systems have a serious flaw (flaws actually)... yet it is the best looking design and the most sought out. It is just a shame. Almost everyone I know of that has a Duo has had this problem. Overall the 360 is worse on failure rate, but at least they won't be $400+ for a working model 20 years later.
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: BlueBMW on December 23, 2011, 12:11:39 AM
Interestingly, the original Duos have a higher quality PCB than the later Duo R models. The design seems sound, just cripples by defective caps.
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: ApolloBoy on February 05, 2012, 06:14:30 AM
Interestingly, the original Duos have a higher quality PCB than the later Duo R models. The design seems sound, just cripples by defective caps.
I've been replacing some caps on a Duo for someone and I was genuinely surprised at how durable the board was, especially compared to the TE which has a shitty PCB. Kinda makes me wish I didn't get rid of my region modded PCE Duo. And on the subject of the Duo-R, has anyone had to replace the caps on that yet?
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: BlueBMW on February 05, 2012, 06:16:15 AM
Havent seen caps go out on the Duo-R/RX yet, but I have now seen a PC-FX with cap issues... :(
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: esteban on February 07, 2012, 04:50:52 AM
Havent seen caps go out on the Duo-R/RX yet, but I have now seen a PC-FX with cap issues... :(
Say it ain't so!
Damn it.
How about caps on SuperCD unit? I know it isn't as popular, but what is your take on that bit of hardware?
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: SNKNostalgia on February 07, 2012, 09:10:59 AM
I still need to see if my Duo right sound channel is quiet due to the AV cable maybe. I already replaced the main upper left sound caps when the CD audio went quiet.
The thing that pissed me off the most is that I bought my Duo new from TZD back in 2000-01 and barely plugged it in and played it for like 5-6 years. Then I played it for 1 year straight 2007 with reasonable gaming sessions and the caps went out for the first time... not to mention the lens went out and I bought 4 replacements which was an easy fix. Then I let up on playing it again the past 2 years and the right sound channel is going out due to another cap problem or possibly the AV cable I hope.
Oh well, at least it should be an easy fix if it's the caps. I guess I can just use the headphone output converted to RCA for now till it gets fixed, lol.
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: BlueBMW on February 07, 2012, 04:15:36 PM
Havent seen caps go out on the Duo-R/RX yet, but I have now seen a PC-FX with cap issues... :(
Say it ain't so! Damn it. How about caps on SuperCD unit? I know it isn't as popular, but what is your take on that bit of hardware?
I've seen several SuperCDROM2 units with cap issues :( Hopefully DuoR and RX systems arent next! They dont have the SMT Aluminum caps like the others though... Even the leaded caps will eventually dry out, but at least they dont tend to leak all over the board and destroy stuff.
Sorry to bring bad news :( Hopefully I'll have some FX cap charts up soon.
I still need to see if my Duo right sound channel is quiet due to the AV cable maybe. I already replaced the main upper left sound caps when the CD audio went quiet.
The thing that pissed me off the most is that I bought my Duo new from TZD back in 2000-01 and barely plugged it in and played it for like 5-6 years. Then I played it for 1 year straight 2007 with reasonable gaming sessions and the caps went out for the first time... not to mention the lens went out and I bought 4 replacements which was an easy fix. Then I let up on playing it again the past 2 years and the right sound channel is going out due to another cap problem or possibly the AV cable I hope.
Oh well, at least it should be an easy fix if it's the caps. I guess I can just use the headphone output converted to RCA for now till it gets fixed, lol.
Might as well just go ahead and have all the rest of the caps done. I've had some systems not read CDs and then after a full cap change start working again. So I know the caps will eventually affect more than just the audio output.
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: KingofGames on February 13, 2012, 02:31:47 PM
I'm going through the process of reading through this topic, but in the meantime, I figured I'd bring up my scenario. I recently acquired a Turbo Duo. I was told the unit did not power up, but upon receiving it, I had no problem powering it on. The Turbo Grafx portion works perfectly. The CD portion loads discs fine, plays the basic audio properly, but struggles with the CD-based audio. I was able to load up a JP version of Y's III (is this typical? I've not modded the system myself). At one point, the CD audio kicked in, but quickly died out. Through the headphone jack, the audio can be heard very faintly, though there is a hissing noise as well. Does this sound like a cap issue? I'd like to get an idea before going through the trouble of replacing anything. Thanks for any assistance!
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: thesteve on February 13, 2012, 02:34:49 PM
thats common. its typically cap related. caps and cap fluid corrosion. its fixable
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: KingofGames on February 13, 2012, 05:07:05 PM
Yup! I replaced the two 22uf caps tonight with the help of a friend. Man, it was harder than I thought! However, I now have CD audio! Amazing to see that this thread has serviced so many people over the past 6 years.
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: ogre on March 01, 2012, 10:53:11 PM
I recently got my old dead black duo working. It was out if commission for over 2 years. It ended up being just a dead power brick and the one from retro game cave got it running. Now after two years of not running the sound is completely gone, as well as my saves. :( A year before it died the CD sound went and I changed the caps above the heat sinks and that fixed it. Does anyone know of what caps are related to all audio, hucard and CD.It has virtually no sound unless I turn the volume to the max, and even still it sounds faint and scratchy.
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: BlueBMW on March 01, 2012, 11:48:05 PM
The consensus these days seems to be that ALL the capacitors should be changed. Also make sure that when changing caps that you clean all the leaked fluid and corrosion. I know its a pain, but for the long term reliability of your system, this must be done.
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: ogre on March 02, 2012, 02:43:09 AM
Ugh, I guess I kind of figured that is what needs to be done. I was just curious as to which ones specifically controlled the audio as I changed some already, and wanted to make sure those still are not suspect(Defective). Any good techniques for not lifting the solder pads? When I changed the one (10uf) located under the HU-Card slot I accidentally lifted the pad. The soldering is the easy part, it is the removing of these little bastards that sucks.
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: bust3dstr8 on March 02, 2012, 03:06:34 AM
Use two irons and a drop of paste flux. Heat both sides and push the cap off the pads. Then use a fluxed wick to clean.
Something like this works good for getting in tight places.
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: meka on March 17, 2012, 01:52:13 AM
Just replaced all the caps on the Super CDROM2 and it works great, thanks for showing me the post and to the person who posted it, it really helped.
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: ogre on March 19, 2012, 08:54:19 AM
I finally got around to changing all the caps on my resurrected black pc-engine duo. Before I had no sound whatsoever , and now the only sound I have is crystal clear loud redbook audio. I have no hucard sound, and the only other sound I can hear is in lords of thunder when the character gets hit or dies. The system has no other issues and loads any game perfectly(Actually quicker than my Duo-R). All the caps are new, and as far as I can tell are working. Does anyone now what chip regulates the hucard audio?
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: thesteve on March 19, 2012, 10:07:09 AM
the hucard audio is not regulated its mixed after the AVC chip (the ic behind the heatsinks with pins on one side only)
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: ogre on March 19, 2012, 12:27:31 PM
Is that the chip amplifies the audio that the hudson chip outputs? I am only guessing this may be the problem as redbook audio works, as does some of the voices in Fatal Fury Special. It does sound like it is trying to produce sound, but only faintly. This just frustrates me as before the power brick broke it was working perfectly.
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: thesteve on March 19, 2012, 02:43:55 PM
no that chip lowers the cd audio before mixing in the Hudson chip. the Hudson chip is not dealt with separately at all
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: ogre on March 19, 2012, 03:48:26 PM
Ok, so I guess I will just have to trace the audio from the HU6280. I am definitely no expert, but all info points to that producing the audio. The chip obviously must be working as it is also the main CPU. If no chip amplifies the PSG coming out of this does it go through any filtering caps?
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: thesteve on March 19, 2012, 03:55:53 PM
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: thesteve on March 19, 2012, 03:58:15 PM
thanx to charlie for the schematic
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: ogre on March 19, 2012, 04:15:58 PM
Thanks. Now I will have to do some digging.
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: notsonic on April 29, 2012, 12:27:59 PM
just want to add some more to this thread and see if anyone has any suggestions.
the original condition of my duo was low sound. i do not know if it got better or worse after being on for a while as i didn't test that.
i replaced the two post amp caps with 10uF 35v caps from radioshack. sound levels were back to normal. sound quality was maybe a little shitty/peaky sounding but that could just be how it is, i forget. cd audio was perfectly clear. i left it on for a few hours and it started popping, both through the av out and the headphone jack.
I'm going to go and replace the pre amp ones and the other caps people have mentioned to see if that helps. none of the caps look physically bad, though they are so small its entirely possible theyve leaked and its not 100% obvious.
also, does anyone have any tips for removing these kinds of caps?
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: thesteve on April 29, 2012, 12:47:30 PM
press them against the board and twist back and forth
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: ApolloBoy on April 29, 2012, 12:49:39 PM
press them against the board and twist back and forth
This is the technique I use as well. Gets them out every time and there's no damage to the board this way. Sometimes you'll even pull the old cap legs right off the pads which makes things easier!
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: Jugbug on May 10, 2012, 04:37:02 PM
I'm new as a poster around here, but have been reading up for awhile. I just wanted to give a big thanks to this thread I was able to restore my Duo's audio. It was having issues for a long time and then was finally silent. I plan on doing a total capacitor replacement when I've got some time. Any advice from people who have done this is welcome. My main concern is if I go radial if there's enough room under the shield, or if I go SMD if the caps will be too large for the pads. Thanks again, and here's hoping my Duo at least lives longer than I do :D
Edit: Thanks for the advice, BlueBMW.
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: BlueBMW on May 10, 2012, 06:46:25 PM
Theres usually plenty of room to use radials under the rf shield. Just bend then over after install.
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: thesteve on May 14, 2012, 05:09:44 AM
the ceramic SMD size 1206 caps fit the pads perfect
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: ApolloBoy on May 22, 2012, 07:36:06 AM
I just use normal leaded caps, way easier to solder in than SMD caps.
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: Jugbug on May 24, 2012, 02:54:08 PM
Thanks for all the input. I hadn't even considered ceramic SMDs. I'll probably go with radials for the ease. Bet those ceramic SMDs make for a nice looking install though... :-k
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: thesteve on May 25, 2012, 05:04:01 AM
the ceramics are easier too
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: peasoup on June 02, 2012, 09:48:32 PM
I just want to say hello and thanks to Red Ghost/toofastforyahuh and everyone in this thread what a life saver. I now have fully working cd audio and no more popping!
Unfortunately though two of the caps near the headphone opamp leaked all over the board and made a hell of a mess. Messing up a trace/pad and destroying the volume knob (all rusty and gunky now) so off to find a new one of those and then on to rgb mod !
Cheers guys.
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: gilao on June 09, 2012, 07:48:27 PM
I have a Turbo Duo and was without sound, the sound was very low even changed all the capacitors, now the Hu Card games have sound normal, but the games on CD still has very low sound, have to increase the TV volume at most and is still down, anyone know what can be ? Thank´s.
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: thesteve on June 09, 2012, 08:10:25 PM
yep, you have corrosion damage
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: Bekic on March 15, 2013, 11:50:55 PM
The soundtrack for me doesn't sound scratchy or anything, but it does hower fade out in a certain level on riot zone. It came back after i died. Does this still fit the problem-description?
Also the little cutscene when you finish a level and the guy stabs a knife in the "Wanted"-picture just cuts off at some levels and it goes straight to the gameplay. What should i do?
Thank you!
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: thesteve on March 19, 2013, 02:32:18 PM
that sounds more like a laser/adjustment issue
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: Bekic on March 23, 2013, 08:38:03 AM
http://www.pcenginefx.com/forums/index.php?topic=8926.0 the guide
if you need it done for you myself, bluebmw, keithcourage and a few others can handle that for you
It's better for someone else to do it, i'd most likely just f*ck it up. How long would it take if you did it? How long could i expect it to last before it starts to malfunction again?
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: thesteve on March 25, 2013, 03:37:28 PM
if the old caps are still there, it wont last long, as the caps drift and leak. new caps in, and it should stay tuned for years
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: Bekic on March 26, 2013, 04:16:55 AM
if the old caps are still there, it wont last long, as the caps drift and leak. new caps in, and it should stay tuned for years
That's pretty durable, by that time it won't even get me frustrated. How much time would you need to put new ones in?
Also, i wonder if it's possible that aside from the sound and some cutscenes citting out that the actual graphics and music themselves have deteriorated in terms of quality (or is it just works or doesn't)?
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: thesteve on March 26, 2013, 04:48:18 AM
the sound mixing does deteriorate, but the grafx not currently no backlog (couple weeks here max)
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: Bekic on March 26, 2013, 05:00:43 AM
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: thesteve on March 28, 2013, 12:20:06 PM
yes
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: Jay See Double You on April 17, 2013, 02:38:52 AM
Hey guys! First post! I have a US Turbo Duo that I got in 2003. I fired it up a few nights ago for the first time in a few months, and let me try to explain what I noticed: There was static scratchiness in the sound, but the sound proper was not distorted. Does that make sense? I would occasionally notice the static on top of otherwise clean sounding music and sounds, but mostly, I'd notice it when there was no music, such as when I was playing Hit the Ice. I did not notice any issues with video, or performance in other capacities. I don't recall ever noticing this static before.
The only environmental change was that there was a mouse back behind the systems that I caught and killed in a trap. But the only way I can imagine that making any difference was if he chewed on either the AC or AV, and I don't think he did. When the trap caught the mouse, there was a wire under the mouse that I had to pull on to separate from the mouse/trap, that could've been the TD AC cord, but I'm not sure - I didn't check. There is also a new AV selector box that I am using, but I'm not noticing any similar effects on the other systems hooked up to it (Genesis/SNES/NES).
Do you think I'm dealing with this capacitor issue, do you think I'm dealing with bad AV and/or AC cords, -or- do you think I've got something else (probably more serious) going on? Let me know! If you need me to, I can probably capture some audio for you!
Would appreciate your expertise on this! :-)
Thanks!
p.s. Unrelated question (I hope it's okay that I'm killing two birds with one stone here): If I understand things correctly, there is no region lock on CDRom2, Super CDRom2, and Arcade CDRom2. I'm also under the impression that all Turbo Duos can run all three CD-Rom formats without requiring the accompanying Hu Cards. Am I correct? It seems to me that, if so, and this Turbo Duo I have is easily fixed, then the best course of action for me is to keep it, use it for all region's CD-Rom games, and American Hu Cards, and rather than buying a pricy region card adaptor, just get a PC Engine or (if I'm really ambitious), Supergrafx off e-bay in order to play the Japanese Hus. Am I right? If I'm wrong, what do you suggest? If I am right, but my Duo's gonna be an expensive fix, I might be better off buying a Japanese DUO R/RX, buying a standard American TG16 with turbo-booster, and going that route (since the American Duos are soooooo much more expensive!) Do you agree?
Thanks guys! Look forward to interacting with you guys in the future!
Cheers!
-JCW
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: Necromancer on April 17, 2013, 02:53:59 AM
Sounds like caps to me, but whatever is wrong I'm sure one of the guys here can get it fixed up for a reasonable price. If it's not caps but they haven't been changed yet, get 'em done before they leak and corrode the PCB or take out some other component.
As for CD formats, discs are region free but system cards are not. Your TurboDuo can play CDs and SuperCDs with its internal system card, but you'll need an Arcade Card Duo* (and region mod of some sort to use it) to play Arcade Card games. For region mods, don't waste time with overpriced and often finicky converters; get a switch installed or buy a re-capped PCE Duo or a Duo-R.
* - an Arcade Card Pro will also work, but they're pricier
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: Jay See Double You on April 17, 2013, 03:36:54 AM
Thanks Necro! I have thought about looking into toggle switch region mods for this! If I were to mod the system to handle JP Hus, would there also be any way to mod the system so that it's internal "system card" is equivalent to the Arcade card instead of the Super CD-Rom2 card? Also, I think I know the answer to this already, but I suppose there isn't any way to mod the thing to add Supergrafx support as well, right? So we don't veer this thread off topic, you can PM me if you'd rather. :-)
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: Necromancer on April 17, 2013, 03:55:51 AM
The short answer is there's no way to add AC and/or SG support to a Duo. I suppose it's technically possible to add AC and SG support to a Duo (look at the crazy shit people like Ben Heck cobble together), but it'd be a ton of work, costly, wouldn't fit in the original case, and would require cannibalizing parts from a real AC and SG anyway.
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: BlueBMW on April 17, 2013, 04:48:17 AM
I could see possibly hijacking the lines to the internal system bios and running it to an arcade card, but yeah it would require an arcade card still... itd be simpler to just use the arcade card in the system.
Byron
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: Jay See Double You on April 17, 2013, 02:44:18 PM
Thanks, Byron!
Simpler, yes. But I like the idea of not having to mess with popping a card in and out (not to mention risking losing or breaking it). I don't know whether I'll pursue that or not. But it's neat to know that something like that could theoretically be done. I will plan on having the caps replaced, and probably also looking into a toggle mod to switch between US / JP HuCard pin config. I'm sure a thread exists for that here. Does anyone have a link?
I guess I'll noodle the Arcade 3 card internal mod idea. It looks like the Arcade 3 Duo card is not too pricey, and even the Arcade Pro cards are only about $80-$120 on "the bay", which is not too bad, especially if they're your key to the best Neo Geo ports of the 16-bit era this side of the Neo Geo itself (which I do have - JP AES, and JP Model 1 NGCD), then I think they're probably justifiably priced. (What is the diff between the AC DUO card and the AC Pro card, btw, and are there any games that absolutely require the AC pro to run?)
Thanks for letting me pick you guys' brains on this stuff!
Cheers!
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: BlueBMW on April 17, 2013, 04:51:36 PM
Since you have a Duo system you just need an Arcade Card Duo. The Pro cards are for systems that don't already have system 3.0 built in.
Look over this compatibility guide for some more information on this subject:
Also, you should be able to find an Arcade Card Pro for less than $80.. that seems like the top of end of what it should cost. An Arcade Card Duo can probably be had for closer to $30-$40.
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: Mystery on May 08, 2013, 11:52:58 PM
Hey guys, it's been a while since I last posted here, but I got really frustrated with my Duo repair that I put it aside for over a year and dug it back out today.
Anyways, here's the status: I replaced all caps, all 4558 amps and even the M51131.
The issue is the following: I get no audio out of the system but I get very very faint sound on the headphones if I crank it up to the max.
Unfortunately I'm no expert, but I read this topic (http://www.pcenginefx.com/forums/index.php?topic=7328.30) and tried measuring some voltages to see if there's anything suspicious.
So, the 4558 at C506 has a very low output on pins 1 and 7. (Duo_R only had one faulty channel and his amp at 506 had only low voltage at 7). I also checked the surrounding caps and both the C610 and C604 ones give me lower than expected voltage (again, it's consistent with Duo_R's error, as only the cap at C604 had low voltage for him).
All the other 4558 amps seem to have a correct output and so do the other surrounding caps.
But this is where I'm stuck and I don't know where to investigate further. There might be a bad connection somewhere or damage due to corrosion from the old caps...I'm not sure how to proceed from here. Any suggestions?
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: thesteve on June 05, 2013, 02:46:40 PM
could be a bad amp, or a bad connection check the reference voltages (inputs) on the affected amp, odds are either the - inputs are high or the + inputs are low
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: michichan on June 28, 2013, 07:59:08 PM
Hi, and thanks already for all the wonderful maps, schematics, and videos I've seen from everyone!
I'm attempting to replace several caps (I don't have the time or money for a full replacement right now, so I'm just hitting the bad ones) and I've gotten them all off the board without any damage EXCEPT for C323. For some reason (probably corrosion) the trace just came right off the board, and I'm guessing I'm gonna have to use a wire now. However, I'm having trouble figuring out the path, since it seems to have two? I read somewhere that C323 has a second source? If someone could help me figure out where I need to solder this wire, I should be able to get everything rolling. Thanks! (If you need a picture, I can get one)
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: Fidde_se on June 29, 2013, 07:20:42 AM
Well C323, the minus side connects to the ground, which can be connected a little here and there, and the plus side goes to leg 3 of IC506 (4558).
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: michichan on June 29, 2013, 07:43:40 AM
Ah, ok! Only the plus side came off, so if I just run a trace wire to the IC's 3rd leg, I'm all good?
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: Fidde_se on June 29, 2013, 11:08:34 PM
Thats correct
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: Everblue on July 04, 2013, 06:10:39 PM
Not sure is this is related but I will have a go:
I just bought a brand new old stock white PC Engine (the very first model) along with an AV Adapter for it as sold here:
It works great but audio volume is around 40% too low, no distortion or anything....
Anyone knows if this is a case of the capacitors needing replacement, or audio from a white PCE's expansion port is too low? I have confirmed with the maker of the AV adapter that it doesn't come with an audio amp.
Any help is appreciated
Thanks!
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: michichan on July 05, 2013, 11:43:17 AM
So I've been working on the capacitors, but I've got a problem where the audio has a lot of electronic static noise when you turn on the system, and then sometimes CD audio will play for a moment and then the whole system audio just kinda dies. Nothing seems to be crossed or short circuited, and I've redone several solders, but it just keeps happening. Any clue? And if there's not a clue, I'll probably just have to send it off...but I don't wanna admit defeat yet!
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: BlueBMW on July 05, 2013, 01:10:34 PM
How much cleaning did you do once the caps were removed? Often the fluid gets on everything and will cause static / shorts. Be sure to check around the amp chips on the backside of the board too. Look for any vias or traces that have turned black.
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: blueraven on July 05, 2013, 04:26:14 PM
Make sure that the trace wire you installed has a solid connection. I had the exact same problem with my primary unit a year or so ago, and it turned out to be a bad connection from the wire to the IC, and it "popped" off like you described. Also, like BMW said, use a toothbrush and cleaner to get the grime off of the trouble areas, and remove any unnecessary flux. You did use flux on the wire?
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: michichan on July 05, 2013, 05:34:40 PM
I did use flux, and I did do quite a lot of cleaning, but not on the underside. I'll try that and also try redoing the line to the IC. Hopefully one of those will work...
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: thesteve on July 07, 2013, 03:10:58 PM
if all sound is fading in or out, it could be a missing voltage to the amp by the AV plug had one here that had no sound for the first few min, then would crackle to life. found an open via feeding a ref voltage to that amp. the amp would generate the voltage after some time, masking the issue
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: kisaku on August 30, 2013, 05:53:50 AM
hello, i have a sound problem with duo. when i start it, it is all ok, but after about 5 MINUTES the audio fades in and out... i replaces the post op amp, but nothing changed... should i change other caps? or is it a laser problem?
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: thesteve on October 10, 2013, 08:54:43 AM
Laser issues will cause only cd sound to drop, if chip sounds fade its not cd related
Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk 2
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: bishopcruz on February 06, 2014, 03:29:46 AM
Ok, question
My Duo just came in, and CD audio is working great, but any Chip Audio/SFX is VERY low. The system was supposed to have a complete cap replacement, though I haven't looked inside to check. Is there something else that could be the problem? I checked it on both Turbochip games, like Legendary Axe and Bonk, and CD games like Gate of Thunder. In Bonk I'm only hearing like half of the music. In Axe, music SEEMS fine, but the sound effects are nearly non-existent. It's prettty weird overall.
I did have it region modded before it was sent out to me, but I assume that shouldn't be an issue.
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: ClodBuster on February 06, 2014, 03:33:18 AM
I had the same issue, mostly with digitized speech sounds. A FULL recap solved the problems. Some of the caps had seized really bad. Often you wouldn't see damage to the PCB underneath them until you removed the old caps.
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: bishopcruz on February 06, 2014, 03:52:02 AM
Problem is it was supposed to have been recapped already.
I found a youtube video with my exact same problem:
Just kinda sucks as I was really looking forward to this without having to worry about repairs on the caps.
Also if the PCB is damaged can it be fixed?
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: Necromancer on February 06, 2014, 03:56:38 AM
It's possible that something else could be the problem, but 99% of the time it's caps or cap related. Even if it's been recapped, it usually ends up being a bad connection on a cap(s), unrepaired corrosion caused by leaking caps, or cap juice left on the board that's shorting something.
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: bishopcruz on February 06, 2014, 05:32:43 AM
It's possible that something else could be the problem, but 99% of the time it's caps or cap related. Even if it's been recapped, it usually ends up being a bad connection on a cap(s), unrepaired corrosion caused by leaking caps, or cap juice left on the board that's shorting something.
OK.
Thankfully after I unplugged it, to see if my star screwdriver would work, (it didn't) I decided to plug her back in and check the headphone out to see if it was better. So I plugged everything back in, and well, while the audio from the DIN still seems a little worse than out of the headphone jack, the problem I had before is gone for now. I'm no longer missing half of the sound effects like that video, and out of the headphones, it definitely seems better. I may just run the stereo out of that jack to the TV if need be. I have no idea why the sound would be working fine now, but not an hour or two ago. Really weird.
Other than that the thing is working great. Burns are working well, as is my copy of Ys 1 and 2, though I'm getting a bit of skipping (might need to have it resurfaced) now to test out CF2, Exile Ys 3 and Vasteel.
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: javilevel on March 22, 2014, 12:33:22 PM
Hello
First sorry for my english, I'm from Spain.
I have a TurboDuo, and I have the issue problem, the sfx sound works good, but de music CD don't work.
I don't have the time and the experience for repair my DUO, is there anyone in the forum who can do it for me for money?
Thanks.
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: michichan on April 17, 2014, 04:11:08 PM
So, I tried fixing my PCE Duo last year and eventually gave up, but after recent interest in it, I've tried again. A number of capacitors were replaced, but C616 lost one of its pads, and so I just couldn't get the sound to work. I replaced a few more and managed to get a solder that hits the edge of the lead for C616, but it's still scratchy sometimes and I'm afraid it's way to fragile. I want to run a lead wire to the contact point, but I can't figure out where it goes. There looks to be three different traces on this contact. Anybody know what I should be connecting to?
(http://pbs.twimg.com/media/BleN3qvCUAAEJZk.jpg)
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: grunthos on April 20, 2014, 12:22:05 AM
:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: I MUST SAY THANK YOU TO D-LITE & EVERYONE ELSE FOR THEIR EFFORTS HERE. I RE-CAPPED MY TIRED TURBODUO AS NO-ONE ELSE IN THE UK WOULD DO IT FOR ME ... IT NOT HAS 100% SOUND AGAIN. SO HAPPY! I replaced all 6 caps in this photo. It wasn't easy for someone with my low skill level, but if I can do it, anyone can. THANK YOU AGAIN. :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: (http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/1302/r9x600copyxo4.html) :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: THANK YOU ALL, THANK YOU ALL, THANK YOU ALL, THANK YOU ALL, THANK YOU ALL :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: Keith Courage on April 21, 2014, 07:04:38 AM
So, I tried fixing my PCE Duo last year and eventually gave up, but after recent interest in it, I've tried again. A number of capacitors were replaced, but C616 lost one of its pads, and so I just couldn't get the sound to work. I replaced a few more and managed to get a solder that hits the edge of the lead for C616, but it's still scratchy sometimes and I'm afraid it's way to fragile. I want to run a lead wire to the contact point, but I can't figure out where it goes. There looks to be three different traces on this contact. Anybody know what I should be connecting to?
(http://pbs.twimg.com/media/BleN3qvCUAAEJZk.jpg)
Follow the traces from the pads. There should be a small via hole near them. You can push a wire or extra capacitor end through it and solder it where it needs to go.
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: Zer0-2k11 on July 04, 2014, 09:09:22 AM
Hi everybody,
I'm in need of help. Sorry about the long post.
I got a PC engine duo on ebay that was described as "Working but no audio" about a month ago. When i received the Duo, first thing i did without testing it was i replaced all the caps with a cap kit i got from console5. After replacing all the caps, the audio was working. Then i proceeded to RGB mod it using the THS7314 method (8 Pin Din, Etc). Before doing the RGB mod it had CD drive issues so i ordered a new laser. After doing the RGB mod i decided to test my Street Fighter II HuCard i just received that day to see if everything was working alright and i noticed i had no sound again. So i looked around the audio circuit i noticed i had 3 caps backwards, C604, C614 and C678 (Audio circuit too) and i corrected them but still no sound. I also redid the 8 Din installation but again nothing :(. I also tried to clean around the audio circuit with some 99% IPA just in case if there was any cap residue that was shorting things outbut that didn't work out either. A day later after receiving a new HOP-M3, I manged to fix the CD drive back up again with a new laser and with a few pot adjustments (See my post in laser adjustment guide thread) and the CD drive is back up and running. So now i have 2 problems :(, one is the no audio problem and the other one is a ceramic capacitor at c518 has been damaged somehow. I don't know if it was like that before or if i did it. Would anybody have any ideas on how to fix the audio and 2, does anybody know the capacitor size and value?. I'm starting to think i damaged the 4558 because of the capacitors being backwards. If this is the case, would a RC4558 work as a replacement? (Texas Instruments 4558). Thank you everybody in advance for your time .
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: Keith Courage on July 06, 2014, 07:12:01 AM
I would use a volt meter to find out where voltage is missing. Some traces go bad without any signs of visible damage. Also. make sure the main op amp is getting voltage. Very common for the op amp near the AV jack to have lack of voltage due to board corrosion damage somewhere.
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: Zer0-2k11 on July 06, 2014, 07:58:20 PM
Ok i busted out the old multimeter and im getting a rating of 7.81 DC Volts on the Opamp when i place the positive probe onto Pin 8 and the negative probe to ground. I thought the opamp died so i replaced the op amp too as well with the RC4558 but still the same result. Is this normal voltage reading? :(
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: Zer0-2k11 on July 06, 2014, 07:59:29 PM
Double post, please delete.
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: Keith Courage on July 06, 2014, 08:10:32 PM
What voltage are you getting off the positive lead for this cap? Circled in red far left. http://postimg.org/image/o1ci50n3z/
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: Zer0-2k11 on July 06, 2014, 08:15:27 PM
Im getting 3.88 DCV
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: Keith Courage on July 06, 2014, 11:26:40 PM
Hmm, that sounds correct then. You should have the same reading on the main op amp as well. Sounds to me like the problem is bad traces for one or more of the audio capacitors. I honestly can't suggest which to check next since I didn't do the cap job to know which ones had more leakage or pads lift etc...
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: thesteve on July 12, 2014, 11:28:09 AM
for chiptunes the only amp in play is IC506 check voltages on pin3 (3.88) pin4 (0) pin5 (3.88) pins 1 and 7 (3.88)
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: Zer0-2k11 on July 12, 2014, 11:50:12 AM
Ok just got out everything and this is the results,
The positive pad on C614 did get lifted and i patched it to the closest via with some 30awg kynar wire
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: thesteve on July 12, 2014, 01:20:16 PM
check pins2 and 6 they are your inputs they feed from C613 and C614, but also get voltage from pins 1 and 7 should be 3.8
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: thesteve on July 12, 2014, 01:24:32 PM
also check voltage at C322 look for black via's by C322 if not 3.88
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: Zer0-2k11 on July 12, 2014, 01:46:51 PM
Ok im getting 4.2v on both pins 2 and 6. For C322 im getting 0.030 I don't see any black vias but i am looking
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: thesteve on July 12, 2014, 02:09:52 PM
R321 should be 8v and 3.8 it gets the 8v from a via from the amp power you checked earlier R321 and R322 are the voltage devider for c322
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: Zer0-2k11 on July 12, 2014, 02:50:45 PM
I can see the power rail (Thick trace) that it links too on the IC506 amp . It seems like im not getting any continuity between the via that connects to pin 8 on the IC506 and the positive lead of C322. One of the 2 vias that connect to C322 must corroded damaged. I can't really check the via that connects to C322 as its underneath the 4558 on the bottom side of the motherboard. Would it be safe to link them together with some 26 awg kynar wire?. The via by C322 did look kind of black.
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: thesteve on July 12, 2014, 02:59:16 PM
R322 is the ground side R321 connects to the power trace
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: Zer0-2k11 on July 12, 2014, 03:02:43 PM
Sorry, i did check R321 and im getting the same voltage reading (0.030).
*EDIT* Ohhh i see what your saying. im not getting continuity between the left side of the resistor of R321 and pin 8 on the audio circuit amp.
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: thesteve on July 12, 2014, 03:13:14 PM
looking at R321 one side goes to C322 and R322 the other side goes to a small via, and directly to a large power trace (pin8 all audio amps)
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: Zer0-2k11 on July 12, 2014, 03:17:19 PM
Sorry i know what you mean now. im not getting continuity between pin 8 on the amp from the audio circuit and the side of R321 that connects to it
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: thesteve on July 12, 2014, 03:21:28 PM
jumper is fine, once your sure your jumpering the right point what i like to do is push a wire through the bad via and solder both sides
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: Zer0-2k11 on July 12, 2014, 03:36:15 PM
Steve, your a miracle worker!, that was it. Thank you, the sounds working with HuCards :D
But i got no audio with Far East of Eden except the sound when a dialog pops up just after i press the run button. Cant get past that dialog but i think i just need to tune the pots a bit more
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: Kid Compile on November 30, 2014, 04:44:29 PM
Sorry for the strange first post - I used post a little bit on an older version of the board back around 2005, my username then was Kakizaki, but for whatever reason that account doesn't work any longer. I suspect due to inactivity.
Anyway, my TurboDuo is starting to falter here and there, mainly sound issues and I suspect it is probably due to bad caps based on everything I have read both here and elsewhere. I am also getting a bit nervous about my lens as the poor guy seems to hang up or take an excessively long time to load CD games.
I've noticed that a few members here repair systems but I didn't want to PM anyone out of the blue without posting first.
I was also looking for a little advice. I was really pretty bummed when this first started happening, and was looking to replace my Duo rather quickly (one of my favorite systems), especially since I made a point of picking up a few extra PC Engine games the last time I was in Japan earlier this year. I also thought it might be an excuse to snag a Duo R or RX. They just look so damn rad. I was on the cusp of snagging a modded Duo RX from Doujindance on Ebay, but after reading some posts here, I am not so sure anymore. Should I steer clear of Doujindance and try and find someone else to just repair my TurboDuo? I wouldn't mind a region mod, but it isn't a necessity for me right now. I also have a CoreGrafx that I use to play HuCards.
Thanks for the input!
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: raylyd on February 20, 2015, 08:07:51 AM
i just fixed one i had to remove the amp had capacitor fluid all over the chip and cleaned the pcb all works fine now :)
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: Nicktendowii on August 05, 2015, 11:08:56 AM
Hi, my problem is slightly different, was wondering if it would be the same fix? It's not that the sound is scrambled or doesn't play at all it's just extremely quiet, whether plugged into the headphone socket or direct from the composite cables. The audio on CD games, especially music, is even quieter still. It also produced some static sound as the TV needs to be turned up to full volume to (just about) hear anything..
Any thoughts? Also it's a PC-Engine Duo I'm using. Got it cheap second hand in Japan. Bought the wires separately and they may be Megadrive 1 cables.. Not sure.
Thanks for the help! And as this is my first post, I hope to be posting more in other topics! :D
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: thesteve on August 05, 2015, 04:22:15 PM
sounds like the normal cap issues
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: Nicktendowii on August 05, 2015, 07:27:27 PM
Thanks, just wanted to make sure before going ahead with the fix :)
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: levesque0999 on November 18, 2015, 05:52:28 AM
thats wonderfull. I just sent my pc-engine to my repair guy with that sheet. It wont be a problem for him . I can repair game boy cartridge battery but i use duckt tape .. for soldering i prefer give it to a pro
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: SegaSonic91 on January 18, 2016, 09:54:58 AM
I finally got my junky PCE DUO finished recapping yesterday. The AC adaptor finally arrived so I was able to test it, at last. I had no sound when I first turned it on with PAC-LAND in the system. Hmmm, ok, "I'll test out the CD drive", I thought. It worked! Loaded DOWNLOAD 2 with no issues, but still no sound. I thought that maybe the new caps need to charge up for a while before the sound comes back. That worked and I had full Hu and CD sound after a good 45mins-1hr.
I thought I would check this morning to see if it was still working and when I turned it on again, there was no sound :( This time, however, sound popped in after about 10mins. Does it need a long time to charge? I am letting it sit for a few hours today in the hopes that it will full charge and I'll have no more issues in that area.
EDIT: Hmmm, well that did not work. I just checked it and it had no sound again. I checked the caps to make sure they were OK and discovered that I actually had a cap missing, duh. Guess I will have to try again after rectifying that later today.
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: thesteve on January 18, 2016, 11:19:37 AM
you have an open via behind the heatsinks, near the 10uf caps
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: SegaSonic91 on January 18, 2016, 12:07:54 PM
Thanks, I will take a look and see if I can find it. I just remembered that I also did not change the electrolytic caps around the heat sink because I was having such a hard time getting them free. I thought of clipping them off and trying to remove the legs, but decided against it. It was trying to get the bent bit of the leg from underneath the board to come free that was the problem.
I am happy to say that I had no problems with RGB amp installation on this system. Tested it yesterday on my wonky French Trinitron, and it was gorgeous.
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: KingDrool on December 19, 2016, 03:34:44 AM
Just wanted to give this guide a big thumbs up. My son and I did this fix last week and my Duo sounds fantastic! Thanks D-Lite!
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: Abelardo on May 02, 2017, 08:52:54 AM
Hello everyone, new old member here, recently got into modding systems an I ran across a pc engine duo that needed a recap (or so I thought), ordered cap kit from console5 and proceeded to do my first recap job, took me a long time so I was happy when I was done, but unfortunately CD audio didn't work, if I turn the volume up all I hear is static noise and some ocasional cracking, hucard audio however is loud and clear. The only thing I'd notice is using 4.7uf 50v caps instead of 16 or 25v ones, console5 sent me the wrong ones and apologetic he was going to send me replacements, but since I'm in Mexico I opted to get them locally, so 50v was the only one I could find.
It's been days already since I've been trying to get it working, I've reseated some caps and I'm sure they're all fitted correctly (no shorts, continuity is there to where they're supposed to go, etc), so now mi conclusion is that there must be a damaged component or trace somewhere, after reading all this thread I found out about the audio diagrams Charlie posted, I'm looking at the TurboDuo Audio Multiplexer diagram, since hucard audio works I'm assuming the problem lies at AVC (u505) or at some point before that, am I correct? All 4558 and 4560 ICs that faced upward had normal voltage apparently, well some 4558 had voltage closer to 7 at pin 8 instead of 8 but I think that's normal, one of the voltage divisors is providing 7v so that's got to be the reason (my ac adaptor provides 9v instead of 10).
Sorry for the lengthy post, it has been more challenging than I expected, I welcome any ideas any of you guys might have, hopefull I can get this thing to work, thank you everyone!
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: Keith Courage on May 02, 2017, 11:53:32 AM
crackling means there could possibly be some bad traces to some of the caps, old cap goop in some of the via holes, or goop underneath some of the 4558 Op amps.
I always remove two of the the 4558 op amps every recap job I perform, clean under them really well, and then reinstall. The two to check would be the one closest the the AV jack next to the two 10UF caps and also do the same for the 4558 op amp that is on the bottom side of the board near the Oki5205 chip.
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: Abelardo on May 02, 2017, 04:19:38 PM
crackling means there could possibly be some bad traces to some of the caps, old cap goop in some of the via holes, or goop underneath some of the 4558 Op amps.
I always remove two of the the 4558 op amps every recap job I perform, clean under them really well, and then reinstall. The two to check would be the one closest the the AV jack next to the two 10UF caps and also do the same for the 4558 op amp that is on the bottom side of the board near the Oki5205 chip.
Thanks! I'll try that, let me see if I can get back to it tomorrow, man who would've though cap goop would cause such havoc, so in theory it's shorting the 4558's? haven't checked the one in the underside for shorts now that think of it, I'll try to remove them but if I find it difficult then at least I'll reflow them.
I've cleaned the board thoroughly with water, soap and a soft brush (that's what I do with arcade boards), sadly things didn't improve after it dried, how can you get cap goop out of the vias? A toothpick for the big ones but would that also work in the small ones? I'm also unsure how can it affect the via, is it shorting the via with the stuff around it?
I almost forgot that I took some photos the other day, looking at them I could've done a better job cleaning the flux I used, and some of my solder job looks sloppy, but aside from that is there something that looks troublesome? Here are the pics: http://imgur.com/a/N7sPh
Thanks again Keith!
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: Keith Courage on May 02, 2017, 08:26:29 PM
If all checks well with the op amps that I mentioned then you should then move onto checking the positive end of the 22uf cap near the AV jack and then also the 22uf cap near the oki5205 chip. Bot of those pads can get damaged from the old caps and sometimes require wires to bridge the damaged traces.
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: Abelardo on May 04, 2017, 04:21:13 AM
I give it a try yesterday, removed de op amp near the power jack and pulled a trace in the process but I was able to fit in a jump wire so still haven't managed to ruin it :roll:
Checked the caps you mentioned, they seemed ok, not shorted and continuity was there, I thought about reflowing all the op amps and I did, but no improvements, so then I took a break and watched one of the longer duo repair videos on YouTube, the guy actually had problems after recapping and turns out a couple of VIAs had failed on his duo, the VIAs in my duo didn't looked that bad so didn't thought the problem would be there but with nothing else working I gave it a try, took me a while but actually found one that failed the continuity test! It was a small one and it's purpose was to ground one of the underside op amps, fixed it and the cracking is gone! Still no CD sound but I'm glad there's some progress after being stuck for a few days.
I'll check for more VIAs today, thanks for all the help Keith I feel that I'm getting very close :D
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: Abelardo on May 04, 2017, 11:44:52 AM
Found one more broken VIA, fixed it and CD audio is back! I almost gave up, thank you Keith for giving me new things to check and keep my hopes up, one more Duo saved :D
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: Necromancer on May 05, 2017, 02:21:37 AM
Well done! Another system saved. :clap:
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: DarkRider on June 20, 2017, 05:08:23 PM
I'm also having trouble with a Turbo Duo. I received one from a friend to fix and when I opened it up it was a mess... So I went through and recapped the entire system turned it on, and no sound. I found a thread back in October with a similar issue and followed the steps in that thread. All the capacitors seems to check out fine on voltage. I ended up narrowing the issue down to ic506 at the top of the board. I used my rework station to remove the chip and it was a mess underneath it. Cleaned the board and reinstalled the chip and I still have no sound. I did find out that if I short pin 5 of the chip to pin 8, the sound kicks on. Do I have a bad 4558? Can I get away with shorting the pins with a wire, or replace the whole chip or could it be a different issue? Thanks.
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: Keith Courage on June 20, 2017, 06:06:44 PM
Probably bad traces to the 4558 op amp and or old cap goop underneath the op amp shorting it out. So it either needs to be removed,cleaned, and then reinstalled or you will need to bridge some wires to repair the bad traces. I typically do both. Meaning remove, clean and reinstall. then repair any bad traces left behind.
just check the voltage on each pin for the 4558 chip and then check the voltage for the trace that pin would run to and you will easily find out which one is not making a connection.
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: DarkRider on June 21, 2017, 03:08:58 PM
I had removed the amp previously and cleaned under it. I went and removed it again and was checking the voltage on the traces. Pins 3, 4, and 5 had no voltage on them. Pins 3 and 5 appear to connect to a via directly under the amp which I traced out to cap 884. I removed that cap and cleaned the entire area incase some fluid was shorting out around there. What's weird to me is I have about 2.5~ volts going across the cap, but when I have to positive lead on the positive side of the cap and neg on neg, I get a negative voltage across the cap. After reinstalling the cap I now have 7 volts going across pins 3, 4, and 5. Cap 323 had almost no voltage previously and is still currently showing almost no voltage.
Here's a couple photos of the board. http://imgur.com/a/rqyZn
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: DarkRider on June 21, 2017, 03:15:47 PM
I should add that the sound on the system actually was working better without the amp installed. Still not what it was supposed to be but I didn't have to crank my tv to max to hear it.
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: Keith Courage on June 22, 2017, 01:03:36 AM
Double check the grounds for the 10UF capacitors in that area. Sometimes the via short out.
Also, what voltages are the 10UF caps in the area reading? They should all be around 3.8V.
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: DarkRider on June 22, 2017, 02:37:38 PM
I left today and headed down to Too many games in Pennsylvania. When I get back home on Monday, I'll check. Thank you for the help.
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: DarkRider on June 27, 2017, 04:36:34 PM
So I took the amp off again. I appear to be getting 3.6ish volts (which sounds like it's slightly low) through the 10uF capacitors and the grounds seem to be fine. All of the pads for the amp except where 3 and 5 would be connected seem to be getting the correct voltage, also about 3.6. I get continuity for all of the pad also to the closest connect or via. I keep coming back to c884. Pins 3&5 are connected and also connected to a via through to the other side of the board. The trace off of that via runs to a via that connects to c884 and I'm still getting the weird voltage through the capacitor. I have continuity for the entire trace. Just to make sure I'm not doing something stupid, positive lead on positive side of the cap and neg on neg and I'm getting -2.674 volts which seems low and also seems to disappear after going through it. If I keep tracing it out from there it seems to run to a via underneath the hucard connector that I'm unable to access with out removing the whole connector which I could do but... Am I doing something dumb or missing something. c884 does appear to be installed the correct direction so I'm not sure why I'm getting the neg voltage through it and why the voltage seems to disappear after it. It seems like the pins 3 and 5 are just not getting the voltage they are supposed to be getting and so when I short them to a voltage source the sound kicks on. Thank you again for the help Keith.
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: DarkRider on July 03, 2017, 05:28:45 PM
So I am apparently dumb. With the amp removed the caps seem to be reading the ~3.6 voltage. With the amp installed. Caps 610 & 604 read closer to 6.6~ Caps 613 & 614 I get about ~2.4. I'm getting ~6.6 on pin 1, ~5.1 on 2, almost nothing on pin 3&5, pin 6 is ~5.1 & pin 7 is ~6.6. I did find a bad via and repaired it, but it didn't seem to make a difference. The Amps on the back of the board and the one near the headphone jack are all reading correctly. Could I have a bad amp? It doesn't explain why I don't have voltage on the pads with the amp removed.
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: Keith Courage on July 03, 2017, 06:13:46 PM
This is what usually happens when there are shorts for the traces that are directly under the op amp. Yes it could be bad though. you could always swap two of these amps around to see if the voltage is still the same which would let you know if it's the amp or not.
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: 8bitplus on July 04, 2017, 08:43:15 PM
I've recapped and repaired a few DUO's now and I just replace the amps I remove. No point re-soldering them back on and risk more heat damage from the process. I got 5x of the RC4558D for about £4 on eBay. I've used them to replace the 2x OpAmp's under the board and main 2 on top by the AV and jack ports.
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: Keith Courage on July 11, 2017, 12:13:45 AM
I had removed the amp previously and cleaned under it. I went and removed it again and was checking the voltage on the traces. Pins 3, 4, and 5 had no voltage on them. Pins 3 and 5 appear to connect to a via directly under the amp which I traced out to cap 884. I removed that cap and cleaned the entire area incase some fluid was shorting out around there. What's weird to me is I have about 2.5~ volts going across the cap, but when I have to positive lead on the positive side of the cap and neg on neg, I get a negative voltage across the cap. After reinstalling the cap I now have 7 volts going across pins 3, 4, and 5. Cap 323 had almost no voltage previously and is still currently showing almost no voltage.
Here's a couple photos of the board. http://imgur.com/a/rqyZn
I just had to fix this problem on a DUO. There was a shorted via at R324. This area can be seen from underneath the board near the AV jack op amp. I was getting 7V on most of the 4558 op amp pins as well as the 10UF caps. Hope this helps.
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: DarkRider on July 12, 2017, 01:54:38 PM
You were very close. It was a via for a capacitor. When I fixed the bad recap job that the last person did, a couple of the through hole capacitors had pads end up damaged. I thought I fixed them all but I must have missed 1. I repaired it and checked continuity to the resistors you mentioned and that got the sound working. Now I just need to find some new screws to put in the shell and it will be all set. Thank you for all the help! Now time to recap another express lol.
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: Enchurito on October 23, 2017, 02:29:23 PM
So I have a PC Engine Duo first model that came region modded already to play usa hucards with a switch in the back. It has a long switch thing with a bunch of wires to the cart slot and one to the bottom side of the board where one of the chips has a pin cut off and a wire soldered to it. It also seems to have most if not all it's capacitors replaced. I'm posting because it was working pretty well but sometimes if I bumped the av out port the picture would glitch up or the audio would buzz. Now all the sudden I have no audio at all, not in the headphone jack or the av out. The headphone jack has never worked since I got it. The audio never faded out or had any volume issues, just suddenly nothing. I have tried both a cd and hucard, nothing.
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: Keith Courage on October 23, 2017, 08:30:28 PM
Most likely there are some bad traces on the board in the audio section or old cap goop causing a short somewhere. The majority of the time when people do recaps they do not clean or address this when they should. However, this is also something that can sometimes happen no matter how well things are cleaned up prior. It's going to be difficult to fix the problem on your own unless you are good at soldering and using a multi-meter.
Small chance your AV cable or AV jack is the problem since the headphone jack doesn't work either.
I do these repairs as well as others here(thesteve, turbokon, MobiusStripTech, MNKyDeth). Feel free to message me if you would like to ship it off for repair.
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: SiberianSpForces on October 24, 2017, 12:11:58 PM
The Sound Issue™ popped up on my Duo this past week. Found leakage from one of the three 4.7 caps right next to the jack/volume dial and under the 1k cap. I replaced all four of the 4.7's and the 1k. Haven't had the chance to sit down with the Duo for a couple of hours to test it out yet.
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: Enchurito on November 21, 2017, 09:00:04 AM
So after trying to get my system going I've got the CD drive working (had crud in the gears) however still zero sound. Pictured is my board http://i66.tinypic.com/c0rrm.jpg
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: SiberianSpForces on November 22, 2017, 01:58:02 AM
Take your phone flashlight or something equivalent and look at the bottom of the caps. Especially the ones around the AV and headphone ports. Maybe the AV port solder joints need reflowed.
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: Keith Courage on December 07, 2017, 11:23:01 PM
So after trying to get my system going I've got the CD drive working (had crud in the gears) however still zero sound. Pictured is my board http://i66.tinypic.com/c0rrm.jpg
Ugh, no fun working around the gamedoctorHK region mod.
Anyways, there could be a number of reasons why you have no audio. However, being that you have no audio at all I would check the 4558 op amp just to the right of the AV jack. Lots of times old cap goo can get underneath these and short things out. The contacts can also corrode. 95% of the time the op amp can be removed, contacts cleaned, then re-soldered and all is good again. In some cases new leads/wires have to be soldered in to fix corroded contacts on the board and in more rare cases the op amp has to be replaced. Also, check that the op amp is getting around 3.8V from the 22UF next to it.
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: mickcris on December 08, 2017, 12:29:43 AM
So after trying to get my system going I've got the CD drive working (had crud in the gears) however still zero sound. Pictured is my board http://i66.tinypic.com/c0rrm.jpg
Ugh, no fun working around the gamedoctorHK region mod.
Yeah, it sucks they only replace certain caps. they should just replace them all while they are at it and clean the board. but that would eat into profits i guess.
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: mtrienis on December 31, 2017, 04:17:33 AM
Hi, where is the diagram for this post?
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: esteban on December 31, 2017, 06:04:01 AM
at the time of this original post it showed how to replace just a few of the capacitors on the board to get the sound working again. Overtime, this has proven to not do much at all anymore since really all the capacitors in the system should be changed. there are other caps on the board that can affect the sound besides the ones initially mentioned in this post.
so if you are experiencing sound issues, just change all the capacitors.
Title: Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix
Post by: Keith Courage on December 31, 2017, 07:12:44 AM