Ordyne vs. Sidearms, let's end this argument

[sunteam_paul]

Vigilante is cool. It's a great game when you just want something to plough through for 20 minutes and complete with no hassle. And it looks great.

[Black Tiger]

THE SKINHEADS HAVE KIDNAPPED MADONNA!

Honestly, I think it's kind of shitty; especially when compared to Double Dragon 1 & 2. But hey, to each their own. (*cough* China Warrior *cough*)

I don't like to think of games as having worth based on what is considered the best. If a genre had nothing but near-perfect games, I don't think that the best of the best should take anything away from the worst of the best.

China Warrior is part of a very small genre and is not a Final Fight/Double Dragon style game. Too many games get dismissed for not excelling as a particular genre title when they're really something different.

Double Dragon 1 & 2 for example are terrible Gladiator/China Warrior style games.

[fragmare]

Side Arms - All day, err day.

[spenoza]

I don't like games being judged solely by how well they replicate their arcade counterparts. The NES version of Double Dragon III is not much like the arcade, and is a much better game as a result. Same with Bionic Commando. Besides, if the arcade version isn't that great, what does it matter if the console version is a great port?

[fragmare]

Hmm...I was never impressed with Kieth Courage in any way shape or form. Ever. I like guy with a gun for a head, sure, but that isn't enough. The bland gameplay, the sucky ass sound effects (sword swinging sound...wtf?).

i've always maintained that if Keith Courage just dropped the slow overworld levels and just had a shit-ton of the underworld levels with more varied enemies and scenery, it would have been a *great* PCE platformer.  The underworld sections really do have good control and gameplay mechanics, imo.  As it is, I found myself trudging through the overworld levels so I could see the next underworld section, only to find it was almost exactly like the one before.  The underworld sections needed more enemies, more scenery, and more varied level design.

[nodtveidt]

The arcade version of Vigilante is way better than the PCE counterpart. The PCE version is missing frames of animation, and the sound is poorer, completely lacking the drums that make the arcade version sound cool. The PCE one stands well on its own, but next to its parent version, is sorely lacking.

[Arkhan]

The arcade version of Vigilante is way better than the PCE counterpart. The PCE version is missing frames of animation, and the sound is poorer, completely lacking the drums that make the arcade version sound cool. The PCE one stands well on its own, but next to its parent version, is sorely lacking.

Who cares if there are some missing frames!  It's not like the missing frames are really important. The game still looks and plays smooth without them.  Contra on NES is missing frames over the arcade one.  Doesn't mean much though.

The coloration is better on PCE for starts, and the sound is *better*.

There's no farty IREM FM disasters. The samples blend in better.  In the arcade, the sampled SFX blare out over the music.  It works for the drums, but not for the punching and kicking.

The music itself is your standard IREM cheese grater sound.

Sorely lacking is a bit of exaggeration.

You want sorely lacking, play the C64 one.  It's got derpy ass music, and awful graphics.

Vigilante for PCE is the best home version of the game. It even plays a bit nicer than the arcade one.

[Tatsujin]

pce bitschirante is a great game. no further comments needed!

[KingDrool]

THE SKINHEADS HAVE KIDNAPPED MADONNA!

Honestly, I think it's kind of shitty; especially when compared to Double Dragon 1 & 2. But hey, to each their own. (*cough* China Warrior *cough*)

I don't like to think of games as having worth based on what is considered the best. If a genre had nothing but near-perfect games, I don't think that the best of the best should take anything away from the worst of the best.

China Warrior is part of a very small genre and is not a Final Fight/Double Dragon style game. Too many games get dismissed for not excelling as a particular genre title when they're really something different.

Double Dragon 1 & 2 for example are terrible Gladiator/China Warrior style games.

Oh, I wasn't referring to China Warrior as a Double Dragon -style game. I was more referring to Arkhan's...peculiar tastes.

[esteban]

Introducing anyone to TG-16 with garbage like Keith Courage would have been a travesty.
Sure, I appreciate the few things it has going for it, but the overall experience is monotonous. Sorry.

Hmm...I was never impressed with Kieth Courage in any way shape or form. Ever. I like guy with a gun for a head, sure, but that isn't enough. The bland gameplay, the sucky ass sound effects (sword swinging sound...wtf?).

i've always maintained that if Keith Courage just dropped the slow overworld levels and just had a shit-ton of the underworld levels with more varied enemies and scenery, it would have been a *great* PCE platformer.  The underworld sections really do have good control and gameplay mechanics, imo.  As it is, I found myself trudging through the overworld levels so I could see the next underworld section, only to find it was almost exactly like the one before.  The underworld sections needed more enemies, more scenery, and more varied level design.

I was going to dig up my old posts about how much potential Keith Courage possessed, but I agree with most of this. I don't think the overworld needs to be stripped away, however—it simply needs to receive the same re-vamp you are suggesting for the underworld, but with specific attention paid to the ARPG elements (it must be made more compelling, less predictable, gimmee Faxanadu/Zelda II LITE)...

  BACK ON TOPIC: Cook will give Ordyne another chance, but even for a TG-16 newbie, I think SideArms is a decent choice if the person is a self-avowed fan of shoot-em-ups. If not...well, neither Ordyne nor SideArms is going to win them over.

Initially, Ordyne has more character and charisma (sprite art, cute aesthetics), but it's pacing and mechanics do not pull you immediately into the action like SideArms does. Even if you feel that SideArms's theme is hackneyed and trite, you can't deny  that it offers a sense of urgency and adrenaline-pumping immediacy. Simply choosing (cycling through) weapons is risky/stressful!


That said, I acknowledge that a few basic questions about a newbie's preferences (genre-specific and game-specific) would help us tremendously.  

Note: this post has been sitting on my phone for over 24 hours. I thought I posted it yesterday morning.

[Arkhan]

HOW DARE YOU SAY KEITH IS A TRAVESTY.  YOU SOMONABISH.


Wouldn't it be hilarious if the n00blitoid hated shooters and wanted platformers and puzzle games only?

lol

[esteban]

HOW DARE YOU SAY KEITH IS A TRAVESTY.  YOU SOMONABISH.


Wouldn't it be hilarious if the n00blitoid hated shooters and wanted platformers and puzzle games only?

lol

I bet you 5 copies of Keith Courage that you correctly identified the person's preferences!

[Samurai Ghost]

Just played SideArms for the first time yesterday. Got my ass beat the first play through, but with a little understanding of the game mechanics I got much further the second time and really enjoyed the game with the frantic action, interesting power-ups, and fairly high difficulty. I never got a feeling of excitement with Ordyne, it just find of felt flat to me, although I admit not giving it much of a chance...

[nodtveidt]

At some point, I will probably do a Sidearms playthrough video like all the others. Ordyne... is not worthy of such a video.

[rag-time4]

Hmm...I was never impressed with Kieth Courage in any way shape or form. Ever. I like guy with a gun for a head, sure, but that isn't enough. The bland gameplay, the sucky ass sound effects (sword swinging sound...wtf?).

i've always maintained that if Keith Courage just dropped the slow overworld levels and just had a shit-ton of the underworld levels with more varied enemies and scenery, it would have been a *great* PCE platformer.  The underworld sections really do have good control and gameplay mechanics, imo.  As it is, I found myself trudging through the overworld levels so I could see the next underworld section, only to find it was almost exactly like the one before.  The underworld sections needed more enemies, more scenery, and more varied level design.

How well does Granzort match this description of an idealized Keith Courage?

On the SideArms v. Ordyne controversy, I side with SideArms. It was the first arcade game I remember playing as a kid, and was one of the games I wanted most when I got my Duo. However, it sounds like you guys recommended games without trying to figure out what kinds of games teh Noob is into!