Author Topic: Does anyone REALLY like Street Fighter II on the PC Engine?  (Read 4068 times)

Arkhan

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 14142
  • Fuck Elmer.
    • Incessant Negativity Software
Re: Does anyone REALLY like Street Fighter II on the PC Engine?
« Reply #135 on: March 16, 2012, 05:03:35 AM »
I like standing up.  Usually turns into bowing forward and leaning my junkregion against the cabinet to hold myself up, but I still like it.


It feels good to rub against my Tron cabinet.  I DO IT ALOT.

I hate seeing cabinets with cigarette burns on them.   f*ck those people.
[Fri 19:34]<nectarsis> been wanting to try that one for awhile now Ope
[Fri 19:33]<Opethian> l;ol huge dong

I'm a max level Forum Warrior.  I'm immortal.
If you're not ready to defend your claims, don't post em.

soop

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2828
Re: Does anyone REALLY like Street Fighter II on the PC Engine?
« Reply #136 on: March 16, 2012, 05:12:00 AM »
I like both kinds of cabs. I think for a game I'm gonna tear through in 15-30 minutes I'd prefer to stand up rather than sit down. If I had a cab I was using for home console games, then I'd want a sit-down style.


It might actually look nicer in a home, and if you're gonna be playing different games, maybe you don't want branding.

As far as crappy cabs go, I remember there was a whole website about terrible homemade cabs.. this may be it, but it's blocked so I don't know
http://www.wickedretarded.com/%7Ecrapmame/

Arkhan

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 14142
  • Fuck Elmer.
    • Incessant Negativity Software
Re: Does anyone REALLY like Street Fighter II on the PC Engine?
« Reply #137 on: March 16, 2012, 05:21:34 AM »
^^^ That MAME site is completely awesome.   PAC MATT IS TAKING THE f*ck OFF.
[Fri 19:34]<nectarsis> been wanting to try that one for awhile now Ope
[Fri 19:33]<Opethian> l;ol huge dong

I'm a max level Forum Warrior.  I'm immortal.
If you're not ready to defend your claims, don't post em.

esteban

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 24063
Re: Does anyone REALLY like Street Fighter II on the PC Engine?
« Reply #138 on: March 17, 2012, 12:02:54 AM »
Call me crazy, but I prefer standing up. Humans can stand for HOURS at a time, especially when MegaZone is involved.

I like both kinds of cabs. I think for a game I'm gonna tear through in 15-30 minutes I'd prefer to stand up rather than sit down. If I had a cab I was using for home console games, then I'd want a sit-down style.


It might actually look nicer in a home, and if you're gonna be playing different games, maybe you don't want branding.

As far as crappy cabs go, I remember there was a whole website about terrible homemade cabs.. this may be it, but it's blocked so I don't know
http://www.wickedretarded.com/%7Ecrapmame/


I love this one.


« Last Edit: March 17, 2012, 12:06:25 AM by esteban »
  |    | 

spenoza

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2751
Re: Does anyone REALLY like Street Fighter II on the PC Engine?
« Reply #139 on: March 17, 2012, 06:15:13 AM »
Back on the Street Fighter II' discussion, to help allay kazekiri's fears that the PCE is somehow struggling with SFII', let me attempt to recall past discussions of PCE chip audio. I think I've seen the numbers 5-10% as to how much of a hit the CPU takes with complex PSG audio engines handling music. The SNES and Genny both have audio co-processors that do all the heavy lifting with sound, but the PCE does the audio work right in the CPU. That means the Hu6280 CPU in the PCE is likely taking a 5-10% overhead for the audio in SFII' (and all other HuCard games with quality audio engines, and some CD games, too). The PCE is clearly keeping up just fine, despite having a minor CPU handicap.

Anyone know specifically about how much the audio in SFII' taps the CPU, outside of these estimates I've seen bandied about in the past?
<a href="http://www.pcedaisakusen.net/2/34/103/show-collection.htm" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">My meager PC Engine Collection so far.</a><br><a href="https://www.pcenginefx.com/forums/" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">PC Engine Software Bible</a><br><a href="http://www.racketboy.com/forum/" c

Bonknuts

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3292
Re: Does anyone REALLY like Street Fighter II on the PC Engine?
« Reply #140 on: March 22, 2012, 02:31:08 PM »
Back on the Street Fighter II' discussion, to help allay kazekiri's fears that the PCE is somehow struggling with SFII', let me attempt to recall past discussions of PCE chip audio. I think I've seen the numbers 5-10% as to how much of a hit the CPU takes with complex PSG audio engines handling music. The SNES and Genny both have audio co-processors that do all the heavy lifting with sound, but the PCE does the audio work right in the CPU. That means the Hu6280 CPU in the PCE is likely taking a 5-10% overhead for the audio in SFII' (and all other HuCard games with quality audio engines, and some CD games, too). The PCE is clearly keeping up just fine, despite having a minor CPU handicap.

Anyone know specifically about how much the audio in SFII' taps the CPU, outside of these estimates I've seen bandied about in the past?


 I just looked at the DDA interrupt routine in the debugger and it looks like for a single sample being played, it clocked in at 15% cpu resource. For two samples (drums from music and punch sample) it clocked in at 25% cpu resource. I only measured using the debugger time stamp. But I did it at a point where the BG area had no hsync calls (so hsync wasn't artificially inflating it). Not sure how much the PSG music routine takes up itself.

 I also did a quick load test on the game:

 It runs the whole game at twice the speed. Since the game moves soo fast, use the music as a guide (since it's playing twice as fast) to judge if there's slowdown. Though, this isn't a true test of the SF2 game engine - because there's other stuff being done that's redundant and eating up more CPU resource than it would normally for double the speed. For instance, you wouldn't update the SAT twice as much, or do twice as many line scrolls (this include two title bars), run the PSG engine twice as much, etc. That and it's uploading vram twice as much too (a potential 4 player frames in a single NTSC frame).

 Edit:

 Here's another video showing off hacking the animation timing sheet:
 The video doesn't play at full speed on youtube, so I did a frame by frame advancement near the end. Both players are having their frames updated once per frame in vram. I hacked it so there was zero delay between frames of the 'resting' animation. What does that mean? It means the game engine has no problem updating any play frame (and both) in a single frame.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2012, 02:49:01 PM by Bonknuts »

nat

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7085
Re: Does anyone REALLY like Street Fighter II on the PC Engine?
« Reply #141 on: March 22, 2012, 06:42:29 PM »
It's mildly comical that the console's stigma as "just a lowly 8-bit machine" is enough to warp people's perceptions so they actually think they're witnessing the system "struggle" to play SFII at full speed.

spenoza

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2751
Re: Does anyone REALLY like Street Fighter II on the PC Engine?
« Reply #142 on: March 22, 2012, 06:53:03 PM »
I just looked at the DDA interrupt routine in the debugger and it looks like for a single sample being played, it clocked in at 15% cpu resource. For two samples (drums from music and punch sample) it clocked in at 25% cpu resource. I only measured using the debugger time stamp. But I did it at a point where the BG area had no hsync calls (so hsync wasn't artificially inflating it). Not sure how much the PSG music routine takes up itself.

Geez... Why do samples put such a drain on the CPU? The PCE could have used an audio co-processor, that much seems certain.
<a href="http://www.pcedaisakusen.net/2/34/103/show-collection.htm" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">My meager PC Engine Collection so far.</a><br><a href="https://www.pcenginefx.com/forums/" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">PC Engine Software Bible</a><br><a href="http://www.racketboy.com/forum/" c

Joe Redifer

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8178
Re: Does anyone REALLY like Street Fighter II on the PC Engine?
« Reply #143 on: March 23, 2012, 10:19:03 AM »
It's mildly comical that the console's stigma as "just a lowly 8-bit machine" is enough to warp people's perceptions so they actually think they're witnessing the system "struggle" to play SFII at full speed.

Well  have you noticed that it takes the PCE version .002 seconds longer from when you press RUN on the title screen to get to the character select screen than the other versions?  This is clearly because of the shitty 8-bitness of the machine.  I'm surprised the title screen doesn't start falling apart or something.

Black Tiger

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11242
Re: Does anyone REALLY like Street Fighter II on the PC Engine?
« Reply #144 on: March 23, 2012, 11:13:23 AM »
It's cool that even with such a heavy hit to the cpu to run samples with the engine NEC used, combined with all that extra stuff Tom has it doing at Turbo speed, the PCE still handles it all. Makes nat's point all the more comical. :P
http://www.superpcenginegrafx.net/forum

Active and drama free PC Engine forum

Bonknuts

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3292
Re: Does anyone REALLY like Street Fighter II on the PC Engine?
« Reply #145 on: March 23, 2012, 06:28:54 PM »
I just looked at the DDA interrupt routine in the debugger and it looks like for a single sample being played, it clocked in at 15% cpu resource. For two samples (drums from music and punch sample) it clocked in at 25% cpu resource. I only measured using the debugger time stamp. But I did it at a point where the BG area had no hsync calls (so hsync wasn't artificially inflating it). Not sure how much the PSG music routine takes up itself.

Geez... Why do samples put such a drain on the CPU? The PCE could have used an audio co-processor, that much seems certain.

 Part of it is that the samples are compressed. Not loss-y (not that it matters), but they're bit packed. So it takes cpu resource right there (on every call) to shift, test, OR, etc. The routine itself isn't optimized either. Funny, cause the DDA routine/TIMER interrupt actually sits in ram (all the code) - yet they don't do any self modifying code (some PCE games do use self modifying code that I've seen). If they kept the samples at uncompressed 8bit, they could have gotten the dual sample output down to the 15% range (without optimizing the rest of the code). In comparison, Air Zonk also uses sample compression (lossy and RLE variant) and for a single channel it clocks in at up to 21% cpu resource. So SF2 is doing alright in comparison to that game, that's putting out samples for both channels. But yeah, it's still quite a bit of cpu resource there.