Author Topic: Turbo games you should like that you don't. My example (Forgotten Worlds)  (Read 4350 times)

gilbert

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Re: Turbo games you should like that you don't. My example (Forgotten Worlds)
« Reply #75 on: January 28, 2018, 12:16:00 PM »
It was a Capcom game, so it had to be good, right?  Nope. 
...
The game is repetitive and boring.  I clearly remember saying, many times, "didn't I just kill this thing in the last level."  And "this spinny circle thing again???"
Capcom was actually known for many repetitive games though, such as Exed Exes and 1942. Even the much improved 1943 and 1943 Kai weren't offering much variations either. (I think the 19xx series got more variations much later, when they decided to ditch all the realistic overtones.) At least SideArms offered more variations in the settings(a lot of weapon options, vertically scrolling stages, shooting at either sides, etc.), and mecha combination! Though Nichibutsu games offered more crazy combinations.

I'm a bit biased though, as having nostalgic memories playing a lot the arcade version(and not so well, couldn't even get past the second stage) and the LOADS of Anime plagiarismsreferences in it certainly helped (that Akiman being part of the graphics team could be a reason), which people not getting into ANIME in that era might not understand.

The PCE version (actually the CD "Special" version, which is the only version I own) does have a number of features compromised, such as having to pause when changing weapons, no backgrounds in some of the boss fights(those wheels, actually) and (obviously) lack of 2-player mode, but it's still a mostly accurate port, which was as close as you could get for console conversions at that time (I think all the artworks were lifted directly from the arcade version, so they're just pixel perfect). Many of the changes are minor at best, if you accept them. The need to pause when changing weapons actually makes the game easier and the lack of 2-player mode isn't that seriously a downgrade, as you'd like to keep your mecha combined at all time anyway (I think it's actually a design flaw to leave one of the players almost useless in the combined state, but not being able to play with the beta robot is certainly missed, and that you couldn't have beta-alpha combination, which some people claimed was a more powerful form in the arcade version). At least I could beat this version (but not the Before Christ mode, which I personally think is a trainwreck for changing almost everything to make the game nearly unplayable, but it's just free stuff so I couldn't complain) so I love this version even more. (And yeah, even though I don't own the Hucard version, I think the new stage one tune is nice, though why they decided to add this was a mystery.)

lukester

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Re: Turbo games you should like that you don't. My example (Forgotten Worlds)
« Reply #76 on: January 28, 2018, 05:18:58 PM »
1943 kai is a really nice port, and the original stages are baller as f*ck. Too bad the laser is so overpowered (you can upgrade it twice)

I beat side arms years ago but that was within the default 5 continues, so definitely not as impressive. So many worms. The megaman 2 composer did the new stage one song, as well as SonSon 2.

According to pcefx I’m not supposed to like pacland, bravoman, samurai ghost or wonder momo.

ClodBuster

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Re: Turbo games you should like that you don't. My example (Forgotten Worlds)
« Reply #77 on: January 28, 2018, 07:58:10 PM »
I don't like Air Zonk as much as people make me feel I should.

They tried to make me do a recap
I said no, no, no

wiseau

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Re: Turbo games you should like that you don't. My example (Forgotten Worlds)
« Reply #78 on: January 28, 2018, 08:12:26 PM »
Vasteel. I dont know what it is about strategy game with hexagonspaces or feature length movies before the game starts, but i cant stand them.

esteban

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Turbo games you should like that you don't. My example (Forgotten Worlds)
« Reply #79 on: January 28, 2018, 11:33:30 PM »
It was a Capcom game, so it had to be good, right?  Nope. 
...
The game is repetitive and boring.  I clearly remember saying, many times, "didn't I just kill this thing in the last level."  And "this spinny circle thing again???"
Capcom was actually known for many repetitive games though, such as Exed Exes and 1942. Even the much improved 1943 and 1943 Kai weren't offering much variations either. (I think the 19xx series got more variations much later, when they decided to ditch all the realistic overtones.) At least SideArms offered more variations in the settings(a lot of weapon options, vertically scrolling stages, shooting at either sides, etc.), and mecha combination! Though Nichibutsu games offered more crazy combinations.

I'm a bit biased though, as having nostalgic memories playing a lot the arcade version(and not so well, couldn't even get past the second stage) and the LOADS of Anime plagiarismsreferences in it certainly helped (that Akiman being part of the graphics team could be a reason), which people not getting into ANIME in that era might not understand.

The PCE version (actually the CD "Special" version, which is the only version I own) does have a number of features compromised, such as having to pause when changing weapons, no backgrounds in some of the boss fights(those wheels, actually) and (obviously) lack of 2-player mode, but it's still a mostly accurate port, which was as close as you could get for console conversions at that time (I think all the artworks were lifted directly from the arcade version, so they're just pixel perfect). Many of the changes are minor at best, if you accept them. The need to pause when changing weapons actually makes the game easier and the lack of 2-player mode isn't that seriously a downgrade, as you'd like to keep your mecha combined at all time anyway (I think it's actually a design flaw to leave one of the players almost useless in the combined state, but not being able to play with the beta robot is certainly missed, and that you couldn't have beta-alpha combination, which some people claimed was a more powerful form in the arcade version). At least I could beat this version (but not the Before Christ mode, which I personally think is a trainwreck for changing almost everything to make the game nearly unplayable, but it's just free stuff so I couldn't complain) so I love this version even more. (And yeah, even though I don't own the Hucard version, I think the new stage one tune is nice, though why they decided to add this was a mystery.)

Yes! I just assumed I suck really bad because I’ve had a very frustrating experience with the Before Christ mode... and I feel like I am missing out on something (I have not gotten to the last few states in B.C. Mode, IIRC).

This is how I would describe SideArms: it doesn’t make a strong first impression.

Or, to put it another way: it is a game that grows on you and becomes more charming the longer you spend with it. It has a surprising amount of personality and things to do (and discover)...if you open your heart.

For example, it did not particularly impress me when I first played it on TG-16 (My friend got Sidearms as soon as it was released, but I had already played Blazing Lazers and was spoiled by BL/Gunhed).

I don’t think Sidearms was one of those games that could GRAB YOU BY THE LEFT ONE (either in the arcade or on the console) in 1989-1990...because it didn’t have the aesthetic flair of the “current generation”  of games (BL).

...so I forgive people whose FIRST IMPRESSION of Sidearms was a mere shrug.

However, once you are playing Sidearms, it was SWIFT and FUN and really addictive (at least, addictive for me, I love the mechanic of flipping forward/backward a la Section Z NES)... I still think it is fun to take different paths through Sidearms (instead of following the same pattern) because it really changes things! (Not all games really feel different if you do this, in my experience.)

Personally, I put Raiden and Sidearms in similar categories: their real charm is the addictive quality of: I think I can get a little bit farther...but dammit, I keep f*cking up...

I know some folks find Sidearms easy, but beating the game without continues wasn’t easy for me.


ASIDE:
FOR A CAPCOM GAME THAT *SHOULD* have been a MASTERPIECE, but then allows horrible repetition to destroy it l, I would bring your attention to LEGENDARY WINGS (NES) .... the horizontal boss fights are SO REPETITIVE and just suck a lot of the awesomeness away...

Legendary Wings, with a bit more effort and care, could easily have been a goddamn solid platinum classic for All Time (I still like the game, but what a squandered opportunity—it physically hurts me to think about it).

So, yes, Sidearms does suffer a bit from recycling  “boss/mini-boss” assets... but thankfully it doesn’t completely negate itself (like Legendary Wings).

Sidearms = occasionally anticlimactic
Legendary Wings = 100% anticlimactic

Maybe I set the bar too low?

I don’t think so. :)
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vestcoat

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Re: Turbo games you should like that you don't. My example (Forgotten Worlds)
« Reply #80 on: January 29, 2018, 06:57:06 AM »
Blazing Lazers. I don't know why I don't enjoy it. I like Soldier Blade and Cyber Core all right.

Also, why are vertical shooters less fun than horizontal shooters? I like primitive vertical shooters, like Galaga and Space Invaders, but somewhere around Astro Warrior I loose interest and will play Dead Moon or R-Type over a vertical scroller any day. 

My theory is verticals suck because of the aspect ratio of TV's. It's harder for designers to fill the screen with action when the top of the scrolling direction is smooshed.
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Also CF2. And not because of the encounter frequency or lack of item effects, but because JRPG's ruined the world.

Vasteel. I dont know what it is about strategy game with hexagonspaces or feature length movies before the game starts, but i cant stand them.
Vasteel is the perfect sustainable strategy game -- good enough to be fun, but not spectacular. I can play a couple games, then put it down and have a life. I also love how it's totally not a Super CD -- some nice touches, but still firmly grounded in the dirty realm of early video games.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2018, 07:03:25 AM by vestcoat »
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Winniez

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Re: Turbo games you should like that you don't. My example (Forgotten Worlds)
« Reply #81 on: January 31, 2018, 10:52:38 AM »
Blazing Lazers. I don't know why I don't enjoy it. I like Soldier Blade and Cyber Core all right.

Also, why are vertical shooters less fun than horizontal shooters? I like primitive vertical shooters, like Galaga and Space Invaders, but somewhere around Astro Warrior I loose interest and will play Dead Moon or R-Type over a vertical scroller any day. 

My theory is verticals suck because of the aspect ratio of TV's. It's harder for designers to fill the screen with action when the top of the scrolling direction is smooshed.
-
Also CF2. And not because of the encounter frequency or lack of item effects, but because JRPG's ruined the world.

Vasteel. I dont know what it is about strategy game with hexagonspaces or feature length movies before the game starts, but i cant stand them.
Vasteel is the perfect sustainable strategy game -- good enough to be fun, but not spectacular. I can play a couple games, then put it down and have a life. I also love how it's totally not a Super CD -- some nice touches, but still firmly grounded in the dirty realm of early video games.

That might be due to the pacing issues. Gunhead just feels kind of boring and slow compared against the Soldier triology on PC-Engine. I have always considered Compile shooters a tad overrated.

MisterCrash

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Re: Turbo games you should like that you don't. My example (Forgotten Worlds)
« Reply #82 on: February 03, 2018, 05:14:06 AM »
For me, it's Coryoon. I love cute shooters, and really like Air Zonk (which is not due to nostalgia), so a game made by the same developers seemed like a sure thing. But I find I don't really enjoy playing it. My main gripes are the fruit, which is just everywhere and make it really hard to see enemies /obstacles /bullets, and the cycling powerups, where it's too easy to accidentally grab the wrong color.

As for Splatterhouse, it was one of the first games that I got for my Turbo back in the day, and I loved it. I tried playing it again a few months ago, and found that I didn't really care for it anymore. The effects and atmosphere are nice, but I just wasn't having fun playing it.

jtucci31

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Re: Turbo games you should like that you don't. My example (Forgotten Worlds)
« Reply #83 on: February 03, 2018, 05:27:12 AM »
Spriggan for me.

I thought it looked really cool and that I'd like it, but it just feels too busy for me as a shooter. :(

Necromancer

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Re: Turbo games you should like that you don't. My example (Forgotten Worlds)
« Reply #84 on: February 05, 2018, 03:21:43 AM »
For me, it's Coryoon. I love cute shooters, and really like Air Zonk (which is not due to nostalgia), so a game made by the same developers seemed like a sure thing. But I find I don't really enjoy playing it. My main gripes are the fruit, which is just everywhere and make it really hard to see enemies /obstacles /bullets, and the cycling powerups, where it's too easy to accidentally grab the wrong color.

You should give it a try with the fruit turned off.  Maybe you'd like it then.
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esteban

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Spriggan for me.

I thought it looked really cool and that I'd like it, but it just feels too busy for me as a shooter. :(

Well, many games can feel overwhelming at first. But then, once you train yourself a bit (awareness of projectiles, especially against certain backgrounds)... you might friggin’ love Spriggan.

The power of Before Christ compels you.

The power of Before Christ compels you.

The power of Before Christ compels you.

(...you might friggin’ love Spriggan!)
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EmperorIng

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actually the secret to Spriggan is Green Green Yellow. Bam, you don't need to worry about Spriggan anymore.