Author Topic: 1990 Tournament - Ys Book I&II versus Super Mario Bros 3 - Vote Now!!  (Read 1420 times)

Gentlegamer

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Re: 1990 Tournament - Ys Book I&II versus Super Mario Bros 3 - Vote Now!!
« Reply #30 on: October 11, 2015, 11:56:54 AM »
I can't play Super Mario All-Stars, it feels all wrong.

Black Tiger

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Re: 1990 Tournament - Ys Book I&II versus Super Mario Bros 3 - Vote Now!!
« Reply #31 on: October 11, 2015, 12:11:19 PM »
Was the iPhone groundbreaking?  The Macintosh?


I meant modern day Apple stuff; I'll give you the original Macs, and I'm sure there's other old stuff that was equally innovative.  There is nothing groundbreaking in the iPhone, though, as there were phones before it with touchscreens, icon based guis, etc.; the phones that actually introduced new tech and ideas are innovative, not the one that copied and better implemented 'em.

I'd argue yes, because they changed the way we interacted with technology.  Others had tried those markets before, but the secret is putting it all together and making it an experience so refined it incites a paradigm shift.  SMB3 did that to platformers and game design in general.


Groundbreaking is not a synonym for successful.


This kind of mentality came up again recently at sega-16. This is how I summed it up then:


Unfortunately, today more people seem to believe that popularizing something among the ignorant equals inventing, innovating, revolutionizing and anything/everything else of merit and everything else has to be less by default.






That comic seriously was made three years ago. This has become so prevalent that it's not hard now to call out upcoming revisionism in advance.

In the not-so-far-off future, video game history will equal "Nintendo" and "not-Nintendo". To a majority of "retro" game fans/collectors, it already does. Communities like this are the fringe.
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lukester

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Re: 1990 Tournament - Ys Book I&II versus Super Mario Bros 3 - Vote Now!!
« Reply #32 on: October 11, 2015, 01:14:03 PM »
I wonder if Grolt just means the PCE version of Ys wasn't as groundbreaking as Mario 3.

The original Ys was very groundbreaking when it was first released, but for it's gameplay and story. The PCE Remake was even more impressive, because it took all those wonderful things and added Redbook audio and the cutscenes, ad it put both games in one package.

But the core gameplay, compositions, graphical style and story didn't change one bit, if at all.

But I'm not really sure what he's thinking. That's just my guess.

Gentlegamer

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Re: 1990 Tournament - Ys Book I&II versus Super Mario Bros 3 - Vote Now!!
« Reply #33 on: October 11, 2015, 01:23:32 PM »
This kind of mentality came up again recently at sega-16. This is how I summed it up then:


Unfortunately, today more people seem to believe that popularizing something among the ignorant equals inventing, innovating, revolutionizing and anything/everything else of merit and everything else has to be less by default.

The thing is, in a commercial context, popularizing something usually does mean all those superlatives, but doesn't have to mean the negatives (everything else is less by default).

Something innovative ('groundbreaking,' 'important,' etc) in a commercial context is almost never something purely novel.

This applies also in the art world. Many of Shakespeare's plays are no less masterpieces for making use of plots that were 2,000 years old.

shawnji

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Re: 1990 Tournament - Ys Book I&II versus Super Mario Bros 3 - Vote Now!!
« Reply #34 on: October 11, 2015, 02:13:29 PM »
To be fair, Ys has its fair share of faults.  The amount of backtracking is ridiculous in both Darm Tower and the Solomon Shrine.  Going up the belfry twice for example.  That was a bad design decision, because there is nothing else in that area that makes the return trip worth it other than a plot MacGuffin that you have to hold something up to the sky.  Those things are kind of tolerable the first time, but on my subsequent playthroughs I've been genuinely annoyed by them.  I just wanted to get back to populated areas and on to the fights with Dalles and Darm.  Granted, at this point I have now played through six different versions of Ys I&II (Eternal, Chronicles, Falcom Classics, etc.), and the Turbo version five times now.

The layout of several areas isn't intuitive and can lead to people getting lost because of how similar things look from area to area within those two locations in particular.  A map feature would have been a welcome addition. 

Being forced to sit through several dialogue boxes that you've already read when you want to heal at the Goddesses' Palace is also obnoxious, and there are a number of items that don't seem to serve any particular purpose.

These same things can, of course, be said of many games.  My point was simply that the game is not without its flaws.  There are very good cases to be made for both games, or even for other games of that year. 

Heck, Metal Gear 2 also came out that year in Japan, and there was literally nothing else like it on the market besides its predecessor (which was extremely ambitious, but unpolished).  That game was absolutely visionary for the time in which it was made, to the point that Metal Gear Solid is almost a direct copy-paste job.

To be honest with you, one of my absolute favorite games from that year is Little Nemo.  It's filled with bugs, glitches, and slow-down; but it also has some of the best melodies I've ever heard on the NES, and it's got some great gameplay concepts and tight controls.  I wouldn't say it's better than any of the other games by a longshot, but I've also probably played it 50+ times now without tiring of it.

My main point is that much of this is subjective and there are good arguments to be heard from all sides.

NightWolve

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Re: 1990 Tournament - Ys Book I&II versus Super Mario Bros 3 - Vote Now!!
« Reply #35 on: October 11, 2015, 03:27:05 PM »
Oh good, so I assumed wrong, the friend that I mentioned who saw it at 3:49 AM Sunday before voting was referring to Ys being ahead, she thinks by about 20 (So maybe DragonMasterDan continued the fight after I went to sleep, thanks dude! Heh)! So yeah, Ys probably won!

Dicer

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Re: 1990 Tournament - Ys Book I&II versus Super Mario Bros 3 - Vote Now!!
« Reply #36 on: October 11, 2015, 04:42:40 PM »
SMB3 is the better "game" but Ys is an "Experience"


MrBroadway

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Re: 1990 Tournament - Ys Book I&II versus Super Mario Bros 3 - Vote Now!!
« Reply #37 on: October 11, 2015, 05:06:27 PM »
I can't play Super Mario All-Stars, it feels all wrong.
Yep.

Also, I didn't vote, but I would have voted SMB3. Sorry, love!

majors

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Re: 1990 Tournament - Ys Book I&II versus Super Mario Bros 3 - Vote Now!!
« Reply #38 on: October 12, 2015, 01:44:43 AM »
And to think Ys might not have been in the running. Retro League was using Moby Games as reference to release dates but I kindly let them know that it was in fact released in 1990 stateside. You know what got my vote.
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NightWolve

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Re: 1990 Tournament - Ys Book I&II versus Super Mario Bros 3 - Vote Now!!
« Reply #39 on: October 12, 2015, 06:31:03 AM »
I saw your account there, figured it was the same person.

ParanoiaDragon

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Re: 1990 Tournament - Ys Book I&II versus Super Mario Bros 3 - Vote Now!!
« Reply #40 on: October 13, 2015, 06:16:01 PM »
Well, I was out of town, so, I missed the poll.... :(

Black Tiger

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Re: 1990 Tournament - Ys Book I&II versus Super Mario Bros 3 - Vote Now!!
« Reply #41 on: October 14, 2015, 01:40:44 AM »
I saw Turbo Ys I & II at a Radio Shack in 1989.

Of course, the local rental store had multiple copies of SMB3 in 1988 and I had mastered the game long before it was announced to the North American public.

This is why it doesn't make sense to use North American release dates. Imports were common during most of the 8-bit generation. Pretty much from the moment the NES took off onward.
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