a questions for you other synth nerds out there...

[Kitsunexus]

Why can't FM synthesis recreate squarewaves that great? I mean it does sines (DUH) and sawtooths (DOUBLE DUH) very well, but squarewaves just seem off. Why is that?

[Kitsunexus]

Also, how can a Genesis use all those (what sound like) 4-operator voices and still have decent polyphony?

[ParanoiaDragon]

Heh, this is a question I can't answer, even though I make music, I know next to nothing about how equipment works

[Kitsunexus]

I <3 synthesizers man! ^_^

[SignOfZeta]

Well, I don't know, but I'd guess it has something to do with the chip's ability to switch voltages quickly. To send voltage to zero all you have to do is ground it, so a saw wave can be achieved this way. To achieve in a very quick rise in voltage (the beginning of a square wave) you'd have to have a really quick response.

I don't think that explains anything. I think it just clarifies the problem.

Basically, junky cheap stuff is junky cheap stuff, and there has to be some reason why a modular Moog still fetches ten grand.

After typing this I looked up some info on the TB303, which has a really rad square wave, and is (I think) FM. Its Wiki says this,

"The TB-303 has a single audio oscillator, which may be configured to produce either a sawtooth wave or a square wave. The square wave is in fact created by flipping every other cycle of the sawtooth wave upside down, giving it a specific, more hollow, sound a bit different from regular square waves."

Hm...

[Kitsunexus]

Well, I don't know, but I'd guess it has something to do with the chip's ability to switch voltages quickly. To send voltage to zero all you have to do is ground it, so a saw wave can be achieved this way. To achieve in a very quick rise in voltage (the beginning of a square wave) you'd have to have a really quick response.

I don't think that explains anything. I think it just clarifies the problem.

Basically, junky cheap stuff is junky cheap stuff, and there has to be some reason why a modular Moog still fetches ten grand.

After typing this I looked up some info on the TB303, which has a really rad square wave, and is (I think) FM. Its Wiki says this,

"The TB-303 has a single audio oscillator, which may be configured to produce either a sawtooth wave or a square wave. The square wave is in fact created by flipping every other cycle of the sawtooth wave upside down, giving it a specific, more hollow, sound a bit different from regular square waves."

Hm...

Dude, no offense, but you do not know much about synthesizers. Modular Moogs are sonic POWERHOUSES, that's why they fetch a lot of dough. And the TB-303 is PURE 100% analog circuitry.

[SignOfZeta]

Dude, no offense, but you do not know much about synthesizers. Modular Moogs are sonic POWERHOUSES, that's why they fetch a lot of dough. And the TB-303 is PURE 100% analog circuitry.

You're right. I don't know that much about this. Also I think you don't know very much about electronics. What does a 303 being analog have to do with anything? Are you suggesting that FM synthesis is purely a digital phenomenon? It isn't.

I don't even understand your Moog comment. Moog Modulars were, more or less, built to order, and cost assloads of money when new. They are still worth loads. They are "good stuff". The sound chip in a Genesis was cheap as hell new, and still is. They are "cheap stuff".

Oh, and I don't know how "PURE" the analog in a 303 is. Its loaded with solid state transistors. If it were "PURE" that is "all caps" pure, it would be loaded with silver plated vacuum tubes.

Hence, my statement, "Basically, junky cheap stuff is junky cheap stuff, and there has to be some reason why a modular Moog still fetches ten grand." Implicit in this sentence is the notion that a Moog is the opposite of "junky".

[Kitsunexus]

Dude, no offense, but you do not know much about synthesizers. Modular Moogs are sonic POWERHOUSES, that's why they fetch a lot of dough. And the TB-303 is PURE 100% analog circuitry.

You're right. I don't know that much about this. Also I think you don't know very much about electronics. What does a 303 being analog have to do with anything? Are you suggesting that FM synthesis is purely a digital phenomenon? It isn't.

I don't even understand your Moog comment. Moog Modulars were, more or less, built to order, and cost assloads of money when new. They are still worth loads. They are "good stuff". The sound chip in a Genesis was cheap as hell new, and still is. They are "cheap stuff".

Oh, and I don't know how "PURE" the analog in a 303 is. Its loaded with solid state transistors. If it were "PURE" that is "all caps" pure, it would be loaded with silver plated vacuum tubes.

Hence, my statement, "Basically, junky cheap stuff is junky cheap stuff, and there has to be some reason why a modular Moog still fetches ten grand." Implicit in this sentence is the notion that a Moog is the opposite of "junky".

TB-303 isn't cheap. And FYI, the synthesis TB-303 uses is subtractive synthesis.

But to recap, asking this question here was the wrong thing to do, so I'll just wait for Array to come on AIM tonight. Thanks anyway. >_>

[SignOfZeta]

TB-303 isn't cheap.

If the 303 isn't cheap, I don't know what is. The thing was like...$200 or some shit. Its worth a grand now, but that's just the collectors jacking up the price.

And FYI, the synthesis TB-303 uses is subtractive synthesis.

OK.

[Tatsujin]

well, for a well sqarewaveform you need a fundamental-frequency (sin) and lot of harmonic of it to create with its sum  (so called fourier-transformation) a proper sqarewave.

but with a single rectangle-generator chip you're able to create any kind of sqarewaveforms in any frequencies. may be the MD FM-chip set just doesn't have a such device built in.

[Keranu]

Whoa, whoa! Settle down there, nerds!

[rainbow_bright]

Heh, this is a question I can't answer, even though I make music, I know next to nothing about how equipment works

I'm the same I make music, yet know NOTHING  And i should! I make experimental music!!

[ParanoiaDragon]

Before I had my own lil' studio, a friend of mine had one set up, where I first learned how to compose, & I started to learn about this kinda stuff, but, that's now a distant memory