Author Topic: Buyer says a console I sold him broke 2 briefcase CD units  (Read 418 times)

pcenginesales

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Buyer says a console I sold him broke 2 briefcase CD units
« on: June 12, 2009, 09:50:19 AM »
Specifically the console works, it's running my regular RGB mod, never a complaint to date. I tested the console on a briefcase CD myself, not the same model (he says IFU-30) but he says it's broken the video out on two of his units. Now the video out on the white engine works, as does the RGB out and all that's been altered is the amped RGB to the SCART on the white engine. Non amped RGB going to the CD ROM unit as per usual, but I'm not sure it even uses it. If the video out from the white engine is fine, how can the video out from the CD ROM be broken? And the same mod as all the other consoles I've sent out, proven and working on briefcase CD ROMs time after time.

Not that I've got any specifics from him as yet but, well I'm posting here I guess before he does.

Now am I right in thinking he must be mistaken? There's not a thing I can think of that would cause this. A bad connection sure could wreck the visuals but not cause a permanent fault. He says it's specifically *broken* it. I've had many PC Engines and briefcases in my time, we're talking in the several hundreds and I've had many faulty ones, video errors, RAM errors, HuCARD connector errors, I've plugged faulty into non-faulty purely to isolate causes of problems (ie a console green screening on HuCARDs but running fine on a Super CD ROM means a problem with cartridge reading) and one's never broken the other. Not that this console displayed a single fault nor has he even mentioned any other fault since getting it. Just another kick in the teeth for me I guess, got a feeling no matter what I'll lose out badly on this one. :(
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Necromancer

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Re: Buyer says a console I sold him broke 2 briefcase CD units
« Reply #1 on: June 12, 2009, 09:56:57 AM »
Tell him to go pound salt.  I don't see how a properly functioning PCE could possibly kill his CD setup, but even if it did, why in the blue hell would he hook up another CD unit and risk its death?
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blueraven

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Re: Buyer says a console I sold him broke 2 briefcase CD units
« Reply #2 on: June 12, 2009, 10:06:07 AM »
4 questions; Where did you sell it, how was it paid for (cash, payapl, etc), what warranty did you offer, and is he using the correct peripherals?
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pcenginesales

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Re: Buyer says a console I sold him broke 2 briefcase CD units
« Reply #3 on: June 12, 2009, 10:10:52 AM »
Tell him to go pound salt.  I don't see how a properly functioning PCE could possibly kill his CD setup, but even if it did, why in the blue hell would he hook up another CD unit and risk its death?

I have one word for you and that word is "Paypal."

He's also a regular customer. Plus if I had such an issue I'd just go ahead and plug another right in because I can't logically see how a console working by itself with its video out working fine would go break the video out on the briefcase. They share the video out - there might be some extra components in the briefcase but even so the video will work from either the console or the briefcase while running CDs. I'm almost certain too - been a long time since I took one apart (almost as annoying as Saturn assembly) but I think the RGB lines don't even connect to the briefcase, all it does is throw data at the PCE and they share the video out signal that the console produces having processed said data. That's very simplified obviously, but how would it break the video out? Certainly nothing to do with my mod, and yet even forgetting mod, I can't think how a working console would break the CD interface? Specifically JUST the video? I've asked him if he tried another console (he has them, he has at least 2 of my modded units) but from "broken" I assume he feels certain. I can see the EXT connector being screwed and not sending composite video to the CD ROM (no problem, I can replace the console) but "broken" is another story. Really I'm pretty scared about the whole situation.
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pcenginesales

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Re: Buyer says a console I sold him broke 2 briefcase CD units
« Reply #4 on: June 12, 2009, 10:38:30 AM »
Well this was the icing on the cake, my sales are down this month by 50% and I don't know why, competitors not selling anything either. Now this will wreck the bit I DID make and here's me the great big stupid mug paying $1000 to apply for a fiance visa that will get rejected if I can't show I'm earning over a certain threshold, god help me. Here's me having just put down a big freaking deposit on a house. Why just why. I'm so utterly depressed and sick of Paypal giving me no ability to have a say in anything. Please god I hope this guy is decent about this because I can't think of what to say. You mod a console, something goes wrong and people just auto assume it's your mod, we all know it to be the case.
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Zeon

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Re: Buyer says a console I sold him broke 2 briefcase CD units
« Reply #5 on: June 12, 2009, 11:39:19 AM »
If the white unit works 100% fine, and he is claiming that the modded unit somehow "broke" his interface units, either he is full of shit, ignorant, or both. If you did the standard amped mod, and tested the white pce working, What he is claiming is physically impossible. You can prove it too using science, again assuming you did the mod correctly, etc, etc.

What I would do I walk him through some simple troubleshooting, before you jump at his throat, as he might just be completely ignorant to a factor that he might not have considered instead of trying to be deceitful. Ask him to try the built in video out on the briefcase setup. Also tell him to try pressing run on a known working, connected controller (directly, not through a tap) with a known working japanese system card and any cd in the cd unit (it need not be a game or music cd, anything that's a cd, and not something "similar" such as a dvd will do) and ask him what happens. Did you send him a power adapter? If not, ask him what power adapter he is using and what it says on the adapter. Make sure he knows you should NEVER use the power adapter from the white pce to power the briefcase unit and that ONLY power adapters rated for the unit's specifications for power should ever be used.  Also make sure he knows about the UK vs japan difference if it applies to him. If you can establish that the unit is alive (either through the video check or running a cd check) you know the cables or stupid user error is to blame. (ie connecting the rgb out into composite or component in an a tv, using the wrong power adapter, etc.)

Be polite and courteous in your response and understand he is frustrated just like you. Don't belittle him or act belligerent. Just go through some basic steps and explanations to rule out any possibility of anything else. If he is being uncooperative after you explain this in an earnest attempt to figure out what went wrong (ie you are trying to make things right), then you can say "I have tried to help you, but you refuse to let me help you. I am more than happy and willing to fix this, but you need to help me out here if there is any chance of this happening." A big mistake so many businesses make is blaming the customer in front of their face. People are much more receptive towards helpful, non judgmental help. Saying stuff to them like "That's impossible, I have sold many systems with the same exact mod with the exact same procedure, and have not had a single complaint." certainly isn't a compelling argument to the customer. Assuming he is not trying to scam you (which should never be done until you've tried to help them as described above and offered reasonable solutions and they outright reject all of it), all he knows is that two of his briefcase units are dead and the only thing he has changed was the connection of your modded pce, and he want's an agreeable solution to this problem. What does it matter to him if 10, 100, 1000, or 100000000000000000000000000000000 people have never had problems with you mod. Who's to say something didn't go wrong that was overlooked this one time?

If you establish consistent and good customer support and have proof of it, it should certainly outshine a few "bad apples". Bad apple being someone you tried to help but the would not cooperate and made unreasonable demands. If you make a guarantee or disclaimer about what you are and aren't responsible for, you should make it clear at the point of sale.

In any case let us know how this pans out.

pcenginesales

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Re: Buyer says a console I sold him broke 2 briefcase CD units
« Reply #6 on: June 14, 2009, 09:38:04 PM »
No reply from him as yet so I assume he's figured it out. It's also quite likely he posts here/reads the site. He buys off my site and if you hunt on google for this stuff, my threads on the mods come up before my site does, so people click through from here. Like I say this is a regular buyer too. His name has come up time and time again on my eBay sales in the past.

I mean no offense to this person and I understand the frustration when something like this happens. A while back every single PCE I was modding ended up producing nothing but severe noise and interference on both TVs in the house, green screening and buzzing. I tested a lot of equipment and chucked stuff out in frustration. They were doing it through SCART and the native AV. Then I noticed the fault was also on my unmodded stuff. It happened with different power supplies, different TVs, different cables, different power strips, different soldering irons/none at all in the case of unmodded. I wrote a bunch of consoles off as potentially unfixable as I could not find the source of the problem. I went into a state of absolute panic, and was hardly coherent in testing the stuff, nor did I have time to do thorough checks. I was in the middle of a huge order to be completed for a gamestore, and it was intense. Five consoles were "broken"  by this fault. I gave up on plugging any more in for testing. I went to bed highly miserable. A day later, they were all working again! To this day I do not know what caused this ridiculous phantom problem. Why it only occurred on PC Engines I have NO clue, everything else was working. It's very easy isn't it, to assume the fault was caused by your TV, then your power strip, then your soldering iron, your cabling, you blame everything and anything and it's severely frustrating. So I can see why he would assume it was the mod, or the console. It's just impossible though. Obviously he isn't as aware of the fact it is impossible, or I imagine he would be taking his consoles apart and tinkering with them himself. The signal from the EXT port can't damage a CD ROM unless there's a short circuit somewhere, and as they share the +5V and ground when plugged in together, that short would blow the fuse on the console before you ever plugged it into the CD ROM. So if it's working fine by itself it can't wreck the CD ROM. Even if the short was on the PCE and you plugged it into the CD ROM before testing it by itself, the fuse would go anyway and there would be no damage done. Only way you could damage is if you replaced that fuse with a wire. The console would still fail to run by itself though!

I have nothing against my buyers of consoles, but this sort of stuff was why I took a long hiatus from selling consoles. PCEs are so modular, that if the fault is on the person's equipment the blame WILL go on your console, as you modded it. If you sell it on eBay it's especially bad, the buyer won't know you, will come out of the blue and be instilled with all kinds of "sellers on eBay are scammers" bias despite the fact that Paypal makes it so that most scammers on eBay are well, buyers. It made selling CD consoles completely impossible as 1/10 of drives would break thanks to overseas postal service. You could still sell and make a profit, replacing the 1/10, but was the threat of negative feedback worth it? Nope. I STILL don't sell CD consoles. The buyers can purchase a Core or a white engine and go get a Super CD ROM2 elsewhere off somebody braver than me. I have that philosophy, then something like THIS happens! Saying that though I never had a Super CD ROM2 break on me, but the weight posting them from overseas STILL cripples your profit and the tax on bringing them to the UK from a supplier kills the resale profit anyway. Oh well.
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Arkhan

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Re: Buyer says a console I sold him broke 2 briefcase CD units
« Reply #7 on: June 15, 2009, 01:50:09 AM »
I bet since its a "mod" he thinks he can wank you out of your money by saying its broke and hitting the HALP ME PAYPAL button.


That or he broke the stuff before you got the item to him and hes just real dopey
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pcenginesales

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Re: Buyer says a console I sold him broke 2 briefcase CD units
« Reply #8 on: June 15, 2009, 02:13:33 AM »
I bet since its a "mod" he thinks he can wank you out of your money by saying its broke and hitting the HALP ME PAYPAL button.


That or he broke the stuff before you got the item to him and hes just real dopey

Nah I don't think it's either. Like I say somebody very likely from here, and bought off me before with no trouble. How do you break the video out? I don't think anything is/was broken. Probably some other equipment problem, is my guess, or the PCE has a dodgy EXT port meaning nothing is broken, it's just not sending the video signal. If that's the case it would be very easily fixed.
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