Greatest HuCard of all time - Poll

[SignOfZeta]

I didn't say I thought they rewrote the engine from scratch, just that I think it's more than a couple bug fixes. I think they did some digging around and made some significant changes. That doesn't mean they trashed everything and started over. They did re-do an awful lot of the graphics and sound assets.

They really didn't change that many graphics from OG SFII to SSFIIX. There were a few basics added (Chun Li got a new standing high kick at some point, Super, I think), There were some new moves like Chun Li's Kikouken (which was originally made from existing frames in SFII' Turbo, but got its own animation in Super). Everyone got a super in SSFIIX. The endings changed. The re-drew Ken/Ryu's hadouken at some point. Ken has a flaming fierce shouryuken.

When it comes to things like standing, jumping, punching kicking, win pose...the stuff that makes up the vast majority of all the graphics, that shit hardly changed at all. Less popular characters like Guile and Zangief are almost indistinguishable between World Warrior and Grand Master Challenge.

The SFC version didn't update the original character graphics much, if at all, but the arcade did for many of them. So I you are right, in one sense. If they did just another port using the SFC graphical assets it wouldn't be as much change as if they did an original arcade port. But if you're going to create an ACD game, why settle for a SFC port? Why not do it one better and actually show off the hardware? If it's just the same game as the SFC version than why would anyone bother getting the ACD version, unless they just didn't happen to have an SFC?

Ok, seriously, do you actually know Street Fighter very well? I'm obviously not talking about an ACD port of the SFC version because there IS no SFC version of SSFIIX to begin with.

The latest SFC version is just regular Super, not Super Turbo, and it is a more or less complete version of that game. Everything that was changed going from Turbo to Super in the arcade (new sounds, new fireball animation for Chun Li, flaming shouryuken, dorky new "Tiger Knee!" sample for Sagat, new endings) was also changed with the SFC version. I can't think of anything that was left out. It obviously doesn't have any of the Super Turbo changes because it isn't Super Turbo. The only home versions of Super Turbo (then, anyway) were 3DO and Marty.

I'm starting to think this is a matter of perspective, really.

Its like this. NEC had SFII', and it was mighty good. In order to make SSFIIX all they had to do was edit the new elements in.

It wouldn't make any sense to build it from the ground up since the project was already %80 done.

It *really* wouldn't make any f*cking sense at all to use any aspect of the SFC version since it isn't Super Turbo. You'd have to port the thing to PCE, re-format it so it would load from a CD, then add all the Super Turbo assets (the super moves, the new sounds, the endings) in because they don't exist in Super.

It makes a lot more sense to just port develop a CD version of the game they ready had and did such a good job with, and then add everything that changed from SFII' to SSFIIX in one go.

[Black Tiger]

Obviously the MD and PCE SFII' ports were based on the evolving SFC SFII engine/game. A PCE port of Super or Super Turbo wouldn't need to port EVERYTHING from the SFC SSFII from scratch. But if they were going to update the PCE port's engine, why would they convert all the new sprites from scratch based on the arcade and try to make them match the current ones instead of porting them from the SFC/MD Super games?

And why wouldn't NEC have access to the SFC/MD assets since they did for the CE port? By the same logic that says that they would build off of the PCE SFII', they would also use assets from the existing SUPER ports. That's how all six 16-bit console ports of SFII were done.

[Bonknuts]

You know you've revealed/admitted yourself to be Tom like 5 different times on here, right?  You can stop pretending you aren't him.  

Just sayin'.

Heh, you disappoint me. Yeah, I think my comment must have went over your head (sorry, sometimes my sense of humor requires a specific point of view and/or knowledge of references). If I really wanted to hide who I am, I'm smart enough to know how to I.e. My statement makes fun of exactly the opposite.

[Arkhan]

You know you've revealed/admitted yourself to be Tom like 5 different times on here, right?  You can stop pretending you aren't him.  

Just sayin'.

Heh, you disappoint me. Yeah, I think my comment must have went over your head (sorry, sometimes my sense of humor requires a specific point of view and/or knowledge of references). If I really wanted to hide who I am, I'm smart enough to know how to I.e. My statement makes fun of exactly the opposite.

oh.

well to be fair I was only half reading everything while doing something else, lol.  Hence me editing the post and adding more later when I remembered to finish reading stuff, hah

I still dunno wtf you're reference is about though.  care to elaborate?

[Digi.k]

for me Parodius Da!  very sure it was the first ever 8M HuCARD !!

[Necromancer]

I still dunno wtf you're reference is about though.  care to elaborate?

No.  Googlerin teh cmmntemps yurshelf adn yule sea.

[Arkhan]

I still dunno wtf you're reference is about though.  care to elaborate?

No.  Googlerin teh cmmntemps yurshelf adn yule sea.

I golgo'd the comtents and all I got was Duke Togo.

[nodtveidt]

Rover, % code change isn't nearly as important as what code was changed. You can change only 5% of the code in a project and still end up making massive functional changes.

Umm... as a programmer myself, I am well aware of this, and this is also why I outlined exactly what was changed...

[spenoza]

Ok, seriously, do you actually know Street Fighter very well? I'm obviously not talking about an ACD port of the SFC version because there IS no SFC version of SSFIIX to begin with.

I've been talking about SSF2 this whole time, dude. I have not been talking about SSF2T. You've tried to bring it up, but I've doggedly stuck to talking about SSF2. The reason for this is my initial timeline post. SSF2T would have been so late to the party, had it ever existed, that one wonders if there would really be a point.

And I'm sorry, I misspoke on the porting thing. What I was referring to was that the SFC version of Street Fighter seems to be the version all the others are based upon. The SFC version had smaller character sprites, and all the other consoles based their versions off the SFC version and sprites rather than going back and re-doing everything from the arcade original. Saves time and money, yes, but it also means that it's hard to do the SFC versions one better, considering they are the reference point and not the original. For an ACD version of SSF2 I would have expected them to have aimed a little higher.

As for programming changes, there's no way to know. It all depends on how they programmed the PCE engine. If they used good, modular design practices maybe it wouldn't be so bad, but alternative programming methods could result in having to do an awful lot of digging to make some simple changes. In truth, I don't always know how easily amendable early console game engines are. I tend to assume they're initially coded to get the job done, not to be re-used or expanded, and thus will be a bitch to screw around with when making changes.

[blueraven]

G'88

[nodtveidt]

As a general rule... when you're coding something for size efficiency, modularity is a huge issue. You need to be able to reuse as much code as possible, as there's just not much room for redundancy. On the other hand, when you have plenty of room for code storage but are still dealing with slow CPUs, you will want to optimize for speed, which may involve writing several versions of the same subroutine, often changing details just slightly to account for difference in usage.

[Arkhan]

modularity is something you do always for games.  If not, you suck!

[nodtveidt]

Usually. Not always. I can think of just a few occasions where you need the last ounce of speed and end up writing redundant code with minor exceptions between subroutines to get it. It doesn't happen often but if you need that last push in speed, you should be willing to explore the possibility. Then again, a coder's suckitude isn't measured in their ability to modularize their code...

[Arkhan]

pfsht.  MODULAR OR GTFO.

lol

I like modular stuff.