The Official Pioneer LaserActive Player thread-

[SignOfZeta]

Its funny you mentioned 8" LDs... I so wanted 'something' to go on the smaller discs instead of using full size ones... but i cant find any mention of them being able to be made!  Theres a long road, I admit, but my chances are much greater than 1%.  Everything that exists started with a dream, and my favorite game says "Dreams are a Reality!"    I hope its true in this case.  If you ever read the orginal 'press release', even as the machine was being launched, it does mention percisely what I propose. 

Making an 8" LA back in the day was certainly possible. There is no technical reason why it couldn't be done. Making an LA game on a burner that only knows how to do video is a million times harder.

[BlueBMW]

Well I cerntainly see a lot of passion in this project.  As always Ill help any way I can with anything homebrew related.  Certainly sign me up for one of the new games unless you think its cost is going to be in the four figures... even then I might consider it. 

[laseractiveguy]

My figures would be similar to...  Myst Reproduction apx 400... it could be cheaper, but its purpose is to generate cash to 'help' complete the real game.  The Real game would be somewhere around 600-750... again this is to cover costs and NOT to make money!  Insane prices, but then again some of the real discs go for that much anyway.  With a low production run like this... the cost can not be spread out over 'many' copies.

Contacting Pioneer for LD blanks... unlikely.  Novel Idea.  People I have come into contact 'on the inside' say Pioneer does not keep a museum of items they make or warehouses full of products for obsolete stock.  An example,  Its just like the Zoom Discs... they do not have ANY of them, and disposed of them quickly after Zoom Magazine was scrapped in the mid 90's...  practicaly throwing away BOX loads of brand new sealed Zooms they didnt distribute to dealers...  this is where I have gotten access to all of the editions!!!  Even LA Discs in 1996 were advertised for $9.99 in Pioneer Catalog to get rid of overstock.  Unheard of to think Don Quixote, Road Prosecutor, and mabye even Time Gal discs in Japan going for that low at one time. 

Its up to you, I was hoping to get a couple people on-board to help with the project.  If most of you think this is pretty futile.. I can disapear and 'reappear' in the future when I have something concrete and sellable?  I was just trying to generate excitment in a 'otherwise' dead LaserActive world.  However, I'm not just saying something I thought up one bored afternoon...  there is a lot of passion behind this and I have given this a lot of thought for just about a year now.  Instead of just dreaming... it time to actualy try it out!

[SignOfZeta]

Pioneer sells shit like spindle motors for LD players that have been out of production for 25 years. They're absolutely incredible about parts support for LD stuff.

The thing with blanks though is that they probably haven't sold one since the late 80s. They might keep that stuff around, they might not. Even the Laseractive was more popular than any form of writable LD.

Which type of blank LD do you have? What is the system called? This is important because the machine has to give you access to very low level machine operations to work. The ones I've seen only have things like composite, Y/C, YPbPr etc for video, some audio inputs, and nothing for data. You said there is a PC that controls it? Can you write TOC code directly to the disc? If so, it's technically possible. However, if the machine predates Laseractive (I think it does) then you're going to need a really smart dude to make something a LA will actually recognize as a game.

[SignOfZeta]

From what I'm reading the only system that recorded discs that could be read in a conventional LD player was the RVL system by ODC, and that system predated digital sound, and LA games require digital sound so...

[Vecanti]

I think Zeta is correct. AFAIK Pioneer never made blank "LaserDiscs".  They made a system based on similar technology but it was cartridge based and I believe those were a random access type(re-writable) where it wrote to the disk more like a hard drive not in sequence like a typical LaserDisc and could be used even for Non-Linear editing, using multiple lasers even to write. So even if you could remove the disc from the cartridge you could never use it in a LaserDisc player.

ODC made a LaserDisc writer. Similar to CD-R where you burned a LaserDisc and it could be read on basically any LaserDisc player.

A few problems, I don't believe anyone has ever seen an ODC machine.  The information looks like they were HUGE, the size of a Washer and Dryer put together.  These were not home or small business machines. These were industrial machines. 

The other problem is there seems to be no information on how they worked. Did they even record digital audio? These things came out in like 1988 so the system would have had to have the computing power to do CD quality audio digitizing/recording/mastering. Which in 1988 was a huge deal. Or were they completely analog video and analog soundtracks?  Which seems more likely.  In which case these machines would be useless I would think for LaserActive game making. There seems to be no way to know how you could use an ODC machine to write digital LaserActive computer data onto a LaserDisc with out actually playing with it/testing.

So even if you somehow found an ODC machine and got one working I would think there would be a lot of trial and error which means a lot of blank LaserDisc coasters.  So just the idea of throwing away $1000s of dollars in blank discs (if you could find any) to test writing data is frightening.   

But again, my knowledge is limited on this so I could be completely wrong on any or all of this.

[SignOfZeta]

I think digital sound was available on LD in 1986, but didn't really start going strong until 1988 or so. I have discs made in the 90s with no digital sound. This recorder from ODC, from what I understand, did only analog sound with CX encoding. It also only did 30 minute CLV sides so...it was probably f*cking terrible, in all honesty.

[laseractiveguy]

Your right... I have done some research into the 'claimed' model that can burn normal LD's... its not the case...   it was a Sony Laser Recorder LVR-3000N.

I'll have to get ahold of that OCR unit somehow. 

[SignOfZeta]

I think you're better off trying to press LDs than getting than trying to get the ODC unit to make LA games. If these units even exist anymore at all it's going to take some incredible expertise to make something like that work. Making hardware and software modifications to a unit nobody can even find a photo of isn't a realistic goal, IMHO.

[TheClash603]

Hypothetically, you could make a Mega LD game on CD right?  It would obviously be very short, but would it be possible?

Seems like a good way to test some of your programming out on the cheap, before going through the expense of LD pressing?

Just make the game a 10 CD epic saga if all else fails

[SignOfZeta]

Hypothetically, you could make a Mega LD game on CD right?  It would obviously be very short, but would it be possible?

It....might be possible. It would require some SERIOUS hardware expertise. Nobody has yet figured out how to burn a CDV. It might (might) be possible to make a MegaLD game on a CDV. It wouldn't be something that was ever designed to be played (there are, AFAIK, no retail CDV LA titles) but if you could get the player to recognize it it might work. This would require hacking a CD recorder to the extent that it would burn analog video. That shit ain't easy.

[laseractiveguy]

I have to admit, this 'Might' be possible... and even if the game spanned 5 cd's or so (apx length of a 30 min LD)... it would be loads cheaper.  However.... now I know 'exactly' what kind of hardware I need for LD's... i am VERY good at tracking down stuff.  Before I purchased my copy of Myst... I located 3 different people who (currently) have copies within about 8 months.   Unfortuantly... one of these 3 people's Myst appeared on ebay... without his knollege.  I'll have more details in the official video.  Then, after aquiring my copy... another person with one contacted me, with some interesting and distrubing news!  No more hints... gotta keep 'something' to myself at least for now.

Searching for a way to make CDV's is top of my priority list.. at the very least it will 'help' keep costs down development wise.  I still and trudging forward (not detered) towards new LA titles.

[SignOfZeta]

You'll have to figure out if its even possible for an LD game to exist on a CDV. CDV's aren't just tiny LDs they are their own special format and it might not be possible for a disc to be a CDV and a LA game at the same time in the opinion of the LA itself. It might only recognize one or the other.

I guess you'll have to figure out what the TOCs look like.

Of course, the LD community would be extremely please if someone could figure out how to burn a CDV even if it wasn't an LA game.

[xelement5x]

I do wonder if it's possible to use a Genesis flashcart or something to boot a CD as a LD with some trickery.  The stuff people have been able to accomplish with those is quite amazing.  I remember the person who made a version of Road Prosecutor for the SNES using a specially made flashcart.

Laseractiveguy, are you the one who picked up that PC PAC which ended on YJA a month or so ago?  It went relatively cheap (under 20K) if I remember correctly.

[SignOfZeta]

I do wonder if it's possible to use a Genesis flashcart or something to boot a CD as a LD with some trickery.  The stuff people have been able to accomplish with those is quite amazing.  I remember the person who made a version of Road Prosecutor for the SNES using a specially made flashcart.

I've played Road Prosecutor for SNES and its pretty impressive. The thing is though...its still all computer code, well that and a special DSP in the flash card. Getting a CDR drive to burn analog video requires that something physical be done and it would require serious firmware expertise.

If it can be done, if making a CDV is possible, then a MD flash cart would be the key to actually running it as an LA game.