Game Sack

[BlueBMW]

I saw John Elway in this episode so it is automatically awesome.

[Mathius]

Hopefully I'll get to this episode tonight or tomorrow night. I am still on the fence with this much maligned system. If I could be guaranteed a copy of Blackthorn I might bite and get one. Star Wars Arcade and Shadow Squadron look cool too. And there's the best port of Virtua Racing. Damn! Maybe I *should* get one.

[Joe Redifer]

Hopefully Joe sees this... Will there ever be a 'behind the scenes' or 'making of' gamesack episode? Would love to follow the journey in creating a full episode!

I'd like to... maybe. The thing that holds me back is that I've read comments from other people stating that they just couldn't get into AVGN any more after watching his making-of episode because it somehow "destroyed the illusion". But still it might be fun to do.

[VenomMacbeth]

I was just getting ready to ask you guys when you were gonna cover the 32x.  Fantastic!

I was wondering, though...is there any chance that the characters in Blackthorne are actually polygonal & not pre-rendered sprites?  I ask because the game seems to experience some slowdown when there are about 4-5 characters on-screen...

[Mathius]

Okay finally watched it. I had no idea there were that many games available for the system! Shocker!

Let me pick your brain for a minute, Joe. On the 32X's sound chip.... Do you know which chip is used in games like Space Harrier and After Burner for the music? Is the sound emulating the arcade somehow? And as for the majority of 32X games is the Genesis' Yamaha soundchip used at all?

[Joe Redifer]

Blackthorne is all pre-rendered, it's just not very optimized. Not a lot of people knew how to properly program for the 32X, I don't think.

For Space Harrier, I think the Genesis does the percussion and bass and the 32X does everything else. Or maybe the Genesis does everything BUT the percussion and the bass, can't remember. In After Burner the 32X does all of the sound. I have a recording somewhere of JUST the 32X audio on some games. The Genesis' sound chip is used almost exclusively in most 32X games. Cosmic Carnage, for example, is 100% Genesis sound and music. Same with Shadow Squadron. Knuckles' Chaotix uses the 32X only for the drums. The 32X is simply programmed to sound like the arcade game they're running. No emulation. Probably not powerful enough. But you can make it sound however you want. It can even play .MOD files and I think .XM files. But not MP3, no way.

[Mathius]

So basically they split the workload on the arcade conversions. They did a good job. The Sega System 16 arcade board has, in my opinion, the greatest and most memorable FM synth audio processor in history. It's too bad Sega's choice in Yamaha FM chips to power the MD's sound output couldn't replicate that kind audio quality. It happened with the 32X though it seems.

What processor exactly outputs the 32X's sound when it is used? One of the Hitachi 32-Bit chips?

[Tatsujin]

hitachi 32-bit chips usually do not output any musics. They have used either the same or a similar yamaha FM chip set (like the YM2151), used for the older sega boards.

but it's strange, I can't find any usefule information about it. even wiki japan only states that there were 2 additional FM channels added to the x32 supporting the the Mega drives 6 channels.

if it were a YM2151 or similar, it would have at least like 6 more channels.

[Mathius]

I didn't think the 32-Bit Hitachi chips outputted sound but I wasn't sure. In any case I doubt we saw the 32X's sound capabilities pushed very hard. Makes me long to hear what it could do.

[Joe Redifer]

All 32X-generated sound is sample-based PWM. You can make it sound like anything you want, just like your PC's sound card can (with the right instructions). And yes, one of the Hitachis runs the sound. It depends on the individual game. Many 32X games have their game logic run by the Genesis' 68000. Some of them (like Doom or After Burner) one of the Hitachis runs the game logic. The slave Hitachi in this scenario is likely driving the PWM sound. In Doom's case I believe the Z80 is driving the sound since it's mostly 2612. It all depends on how the game was made. I'm not sure if the Z80 or the 68000 can drive PWM sound from the 32X or if the 32X always has to do it itself (like in Doom when some of the sound effects come from the 32X). I could ask a 32X programmer if you like.

[Mathius]

All 32X-generated sound is sample-based PWM. You can make it sound like anything you want, just like your PC's sound card can (with the right instructions). And yes, one of the Hitachis runs the sound. It depends on the individual game. Many 32X games have their game logic run by the Genesis' 68000. Some of them (like Doom or After Burner) one of the Hitachis runs the game logic. The slave Hitachi in this scenario is likely driving the PWM sound. In Doom's case I believe the Z80 is driving the sound since it's mostly 2612. It all depends on how the game was made. I'm not sure if the Z80 or the 68000 can drive PWM sound from the 32X or if the 32X always has to do it itself (like in Doom when some of the sound effects come from the 32X). I could ask a 32X programmer if you like.

So the Hitachi's DID generate sound! Yes, ask that programmer. This is extremely interesting.

[Tatsujin]

joe, you're talking about driving the sound, but what did generate the output in the end? which was the question.
space harrier is all YM2151 sounding, even tho there is no YM2151 to be found in there?

[ApolloBoy]

joe, you're talking about driving the sound, but what did generate the output in the end? which was the question.
space harrier is all YM2151 sounding, even tho there is no YM2151 to be found in there?

Space Harrier originally used the YM2203, which the YM2612 is somewhat based on.

[DragonmasterDan]

My favorite feature of the 32X wasn't mentioned. Running games on it makes the composite video from the Genesis look better on most Genesis models.

[Tatsujin]

hahaha.. so your favorite output is composhite too?