Author Topic: Game Sack  (Read 89231 times)

TR0N

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Re: Game Sack
« Reply #3360 on: March 31, 2018, 07:05:57 PM »

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ClodBuster

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Re: Game Sack
« Reply #3361 on: March 31, 2018, 11:15:02 PM »
Every Youtube show that has episodes with more than 20 minutes of content and does not make me fall asleep within that time should be awarded with an Emmy or something.

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Gypsy

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Re: Game Sack
« Reply #3362 on: April 01, 2018, 01:52:57 AM »
So I watched the Jag episode and felt it was fair. Couldn't find the Lynx episode.

TDIRunner

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Re: Game Sack
« Reply #3363 on: April 02, 2018, 08:19:29 AM »
They've never done a Lynx episode.  However, they have reviewed 4 different Lynx games during 4 different episodes. 
Maybe, just once, someone will call me "sir" without adding, "you're making a scene."

nopepper

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Re: Game Sack
« Reply #3364 on: April 02, 2018, 12:22:19 PM »
So I watched the Jag episode and felt it was fair. Couldn't find the Lynx episode.

Yeah, they covered Raiden, Iron Soldier, Tempest 2000 and AvP. So serious question, besides those, what are the "good" Jaguar games? Protector, Missile Command 3D? Anything that somebody would consider a system seller?

Black Tiger

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Re: Game Sack
« Reply #3365 on: April 02, 2018, 03:51:09 PM »
The Jaguar has a lot of games which are generally considered good, but are available on other consoles. It has the kind of library that ignorant people insist the PC Engine needed.

There are still some neat exclusives which are enjoyable to experience, like Super Burnout, Atari Karts and Power Drive Rally, but the library is mainly for hardcore classic console gamers who appreciate unique versions of games and aesthetics like chiptunes.
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Joe Redifer

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Re: Game Sack
« Reply #3366 on: April 02, 2018, 06:26:38 PM »
We haven't done a Lynx episode but I really liked Blue Lightning on a real Lynx. The only way we could do an episode now, of course, is via emulation. As for the Jag yeah there are a few decent games on it and a few I'd still like to try (Rayman, Super Burnout, the other ones Black Tiger mentioned, etc) but overall nothing that makes me compelled to own one. I hear they are working on a decent flash cart for it finally so maybe that will tempt me.

PS - The Jag CD was awful. I had a friend who had it and the Blue Lighting game on that was much worse than the one on the Lynx. I couldn't believe it.

EDIT: I could just see someone complaining "The PC Engine sucks because it needs more games like the Jaguar had". That legit wouldn't surprise me. And it absolutely amuses me!
« Last Edit: April 02, 2018, 06:32:48 PM by Joe Redifer »

majors

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Re: Game Sack
« Reply #3367 on: April 03, 2018, 03:42:47 AM »
So serious question, besides those, what are the "good" Jaguar games?
Probably not the best forum to ask that question.

MGC was started out for "Jagfest" and there is always a small outpost of rabid fans with a few systems running, I bet they would tout the Jags merits. Personally, T2K is the only reason to own one.

One of the early Jaguar emulators was called "PT"...short for Project Tempest. It seems the programmers just wanted to play Tempest :)
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nopepper

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Re: Game Sack
« Reply #3368 on: April 03, 2018, 04:29:13 AM »
It has the kind of library that ignorant people insist the PC Engine needed.

EDIT: I could just see someone complaining "The PC Engine sucks because it needs more games like the Jaguar had". That legit wouldn't surprise me. And it absolutely amuses me!

I'm not sure if these statements compute...You mean to tell me that some of these "rabid fans" actually think the Jaguar library is superior to the PCE?

Probably not the best forum to ask that question.

MGC was started out for "Jagfest" and there is always a small outpost of rabid fans with a few systems running, I bet they would tout the Jags merits. Personally, T2K is the only reason to own one.

Man, I will not join another forum just to ask this question, as I have very little interest in the Jaguar. Besides, there is at least one of these fans in these forums (Pfloydguy2), who can hopefully answer my questions.

Right now, my curiosity has been piqued as to why there are "rabid fans" for a system that has always looked like almost complete garbage to me. Am I missing something? Are these rabid fans just mostly peeps who grew up with Atari and thus migrated to the Jaguar? Is it because its very easy to develop for and has a healthy homebrew scene (which has been my impression since the early 2000s).

Also, I was never a huge fan of the original Tempest in the arcades, so the excitement for Tempest 2000 was lost on me. Super Burnout looks like a decent super scaler ripoff...that is probably the most appealing game I've seen for the Jaguar so far. <shrugs>

seieienbu

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Re: Game Sack
« Reply #3369 on: April 03, 2018, 07:41:44 AM »
lol Project Tempest is the only Jaguar emulator I've ever used.  I downloaded it when I wanted to play Tempest one night while my Jaguar was somewhere else.

I always thought Battlesphere sounded cool.  The idea of a 16 (I think?) player game on the Jaguar seemed both unlikely to ever happen but something I wanted to see at some point.

The Jaguar definitely isn't my favorite console but I think it has enough unique games that it's worth a look from anyone who's never given it one.
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Joe Redifer

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Re: Game Sack
« Reply #3370 on: April 03, 2018, 12:53:03 PM »
Yeah I think if a proper flash cart does indeed come out I'll pick one up along with some RGB SCARTz. I don't want to actively collect for it.

majors

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Re: Game Sack
« Reply #3371 on: April 04, 2018, 02:13:50 AM »
Right now, my curiosity has been piqued as to why there are "rabid fans" for a system that has always looked like almost complete garbage to me. Am I missing something?
I do not think you are missing anything. I have no love for Jag(but I did repair one last week for a buddy who run a games store, that in the past 6 months have sold 3 Jags). As for the fans' fever for it, I think it's like you said...hardcore Atari fans with the bonus of a decent homebrew scene.

To be fair, I was working Babbages for the Jag launch...it never seemed to have taken a foot hold in the market, even 3do sold better and had better game line up. I'm not a Atari hater by any means...I love my Lynx but I'm first to admit it has a limited library of games I enjoy.

Sounds like you've got the itch already, only solution is to EMU or get a console to scratch that itch.
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Pfloydguy2

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Re: Game Sack
« Reply #3372 on: April 04, 2018, 02:48:01 AM »
So I watched the Jag episode and felt it was fair. Couldn't find the Lynx episode.

It's been awhile since I watched most of their stuff.  I believe they mention the Lynx and Lynx games in a few episodes, but as Joe mentioned, there isn't a dedicated Lynx episode.

I went back and watched the Jaguar episode again last week, to see if maybe I was just remembering things poorly.  It seemed obvious from the beginning of the episode that both guys assumed the Jag was a joke.  Some things stuck out to me as bad information, like when Joe said Wolfenstein 3D on the Jag didn't look any better than the other versions.  The Jag version (and I think the Mac and 3D0 ones maybe?) had a significant graphical upgrade over the PC version and most others.  The difference is quite obvious when you compare them side by side.  It's just things like that that give the impression they didn't do their homework and thus didn't give the Jag a fair analysis.

Yeah, they covered Raiden, Iron Soldier, Tempest 2000 and AvP. So serious question, besides those, what are the "good" Jaguar games? Protector, Missile Command 3D? Anything that somebody would consider a system seller?

I wouldn't consider anything on the Jag a system seller today.  I thought Alien vs. Predator was phenomenal back in its time, but that's the closest the Jag has to a system seller.  AvP really hasn't aged well.  The framerate is really choppy, but it was incredibly immersive in 1994.

So ignoring that and Tempest 2000, Iron Soldier, and Raiden, I'd recommend the following:

Rayman.  It's graphically comparable to the Playstation and Saturn ports, but those versions added some features that made the game frustratingly difficult to play, like slippery surfaces.  I find the difficulty in the Jag version very well-balanced.  If anything, it's a bit on the easy side, as I usually have tons of lives saved up by the end of the game.  I want to like the Playstation version, but it's just frustratingly tough by the second area.  The later versions have a CD-quality soundtrack with largely ambient background music.  The Jag's soundtrack is midi, and it's much more melodic than the PS1/Saturn soundtrack.  I really prefer the Jag's soundtrack, but maybe I'm the only one.

Syndicate.  I don't usually get into the 3/4 overhead "god games," but I adore Syndicate.  It's not a technological marvel, but it's quite a bit more advanced than the SNES and Genesis versions.  It makes good use of the Jag's keypad.  Originally a PC game with keyboard controls, it presents a bit of a challenge in porting to a console, because the commands all need to be mapped to a controller.  I've never played the SNES/Genesis versions, but from what I've read, it sounds like some of the game's features had to be removed due to control restrictions.  The Jag version is quite fun, with a good deal of depth, although plenty of Jag fans don't care for it.

Doom.  There are a lot of better options for Doom in 2018, but the Jag version was impressive in its time.  The Jag port was programmed by John Carmack himself.  It runs faster than most of the ports of the 1990s and has a better lighting engine, and most of the early console ports were based on the Jag version's code.  Carmack wasn't able to get the soundtrack playing during the levels without compromising the Jag's performance, so the soundtrack plays between stages, which is a big drawback.  Some people say they prefer to play the game without music as it's more immersive, but without the option to turn it on or off, I can only consider it a loss.  The Jag port also has scaled-down levels, missing levels, and no Cyberdemon, Spectres, or Spider Mastermind, and also no blur artifact (invisibility) or night-vision goggles.  Still, it's a great game on the Jag, even if it's been surpassed in years since.

Wolfenstein 3D.  Jag Wolfenstein is one of the best ports and among the best games on the system, in my opinion.  It looks great compared to the PC and SNES versions.  It runs very smoothly, although the Game Sack guys thought it ran too fast if I recall correctly.  I never had any issues with it being too fast and have played through it several times.  The Jag version added two weapons, a flamethrower and a rocket launcher.  Jag Wolfenstein also has an in-game map.  I don't think the PC or SNES versions did, but I could be wrong about that.

Battle Sphere / Battle Sphere Gold.  This came out after the commercial life of the Jag, but it's a good example of the Jag's power.  It's a space combat game with a ton of depth and the ability to play against 15 other people with the system link.  Unfortunately, it's stupidly expensive ($1500-ish), as if it wasn't already impossible to find 15 other Jag owners nearby.

Super Burnout.  I haven't played this a ton, but it's a very well-done motorcycle racer, and both super fast and silky smooth.  Some fans list this as the best game on the Jag.  But if you're not into racing games, Super Burnout isn't going to change your mind.

Zool 2.  This game is solid, but not brilliant.  It's a mascot platformer that plays a little too fast for its own good, and for some awful reason jump has been mapped to both an action button and Up on the D-pad.  But I've gotten plenty of fun out of it.  The soundtrack is really catchy and the graphics are gorgeous for 1994.

Ultra Vortek.  Game Sack really ripped into Ultra Vortek, but it's a solid fighter.  It unashamedly rips off Mortal Kombat, but that doesn't make it a bad game.  Graphically it's pretty nice and it controls very well with a variety of moves and character types.  It doesn't offer anything too original, but it's still a good game.  I'm not huge into the 1 on 1 fighting game genre, so I can't comment on the depth of the gameplay.

NBA Jam TE.  The Jag version doesn't have anything you can't find in the SNES/Genesis versions other than slightly better graphics, but it's just as solid as the other home conversions.

Baldies (Jag CD).  This is an overhead "god-game" comparable to the early Warcraft games.  It's pretty addicting and unique.  You control a group of Bald dudes and have to fight against their enemies, the Hairy men.  Your army is divided into four categories of Baldies, each of which has a different purpose depending on whether they're inside a building or outside.  There's a good deal of depth, and it's got the sense of humor of something like Worms or Lemmings.  You can develop a minefield and place it right outside an enemy castle, and then develop a stink bomb and drop it on the castle, forcing its inhabitants outside and right into the minefield.  Or inflict your enemies' territory with a plague of land-sharks.  Lots of good fun.  There's also a PS1 port, but it uses some fugly early polygons in places.  The Jag version is 100% pixel art, which I prefer, but that's subjective of course.

Blue Lightning (Jag CD).  A lot of people hate the Jag version, but I really enjoy it.  It doesn't have the depth of something like the Lynx original, but it's a fun mindless blaster.  I'm probably in the minority here though, so approach with caution.

Primal Rage (Jag CD).  It's about the same as the other home ports.  Better graphics than the SNES/Genesis ports, but inferior graphics to the Playstation/Saturn ports.  Also, some fatalities have to load after you input the right command, which really interrupts the matches.

Vid Grid (Jag CD).  It's essentially a jigsaw puzzle where the picture you're assembling is a moving video rather than a still photo.  I had a lot of fun with this, and I don't know why people don't talk about it more.  It's not a system seller, and it's nothing brilliant, but it certainly is fun, and it's a unique take on the FMV genre.

Pfloydguy2

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Re: Game Sack
« Reply #3373 on: April 04, 2018, 03:09:47 AM »
Right now, my curiosity has been piqued as to why there are "rabid fans" for a system that has always looked like almost complete garbage to me. Am I missing something? Are these rabid fans just mostly peeps who grew up with Atari and thus migrated to the Jaguar? Is it because its very easy to develop for and has a healthy homebrew scene (which has been my impression since the early 2000s).
I dunno about the rabid fans thing.  Every console has fanboys - does the Jag have more than most?  If it takes one to know one, maybe I'm in a good position to make that call.  :D

I think the issue is that the Jag has always been lambasted as a joke of a console.  It's the go-to system for a lot of people when looking for an example of a console failure.  And it IS a failed console, so that alone isn't a problem.  The problem is when you have people who have never played it who criticize it for flaws that don't exist.  There's a ton of embarrassingly-poor games on the Jag.  There are also some well-made games that are worth playing.  I don't think the Jaguar should be on the same level as the PC Engine.  The PC Engine's library is clearly superior in just about every way.  But that doesn't mean the Jag is garbage.

Also, the Jag fanbase does have a lot of people who grew up with the Jag or other Atari platforms.  But there's plenty who got into the Jag long after its demise and even just recently.  Unfortunately, the collector's market has made Jaguar collecting prohibitively expensive, so it's probably not worth looking into if you're not already interested.  From what I'm told, Jaguar emulation is spotty with 2D games and awful with 3D games, but I haven't tried it much myself.

Bloufo

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Re: Game Sack
« Reply #3374 on: April 04, 2018, 03:16:54 AM »
Where would Atari Karts rate?