Game Sack

[Pfloydguy2]

A lot of people hate Atari Karts.  I only picked it up last year and haven't played more than an hour of it.  I actually liked it quite a bit.  It's very pretty and controls very well, but it doesn't have the depth or comedy of Mario Kart.  And I think it's only 2-player max, but I could be wrong about that.

[Winniez]

A lot of people hate Atari Karts.  I only picked it up last year and haven't played more than an hour of it.  I actually liked it quite a bit.  It's very pretty and controls very well, but it doesn't have the depth or comedy of Mario Kart.  And I think it's only 2-player max, but I could be wrong about that.

What are your thoughts on the Jaguar controller btw? I really don't like it, to me there is an element of cheapness and bad design in it. D-pad feels mushy, the buttons are so so and its bit awkward to hold. But I don't mind the numpad, in fact I quite like it. Its unique for its time and adds character. Quite useful too.

To Jags credit I must say that after trying the Wolf 3D port after a long time it really is quite excellent. In fact one of the best ways to play the game, even today. Its not like with Doom where the Jag port was great for its time but you have so many better versions to play today,

[TR0N]

[ClodBuster]

Awwwww, that video preview thumbnail is just adorable.

[nopepper]

I wouldn't consider anything on the Jag a system seller today.  I thought Alien vs. Predator was phenomenal back in its time, but that's the closest the Jag has to a system seller.  AvP really hasn't aged well.  The framerate is really choppy, but it was incredibly immersive in 1994.

So ignoring that and Tempest 2000, Iron Soldier, and Raiden, I'd recommend the following:
...

Sorry for the super late response, but missed your reply until now. 

Frankly, there is hardly anything there to warrant excitement towards the Jaguar; the majority can be played in other systems and the few exclusives do not appear to be groundbreaking or essential (as you concede in your post).

Going back to Game Sack, I think their take on the Jaguar seemed pretty fair. They only missed a couple of your recommended games, so I'm not sure why you have such strong negative feelings towards them, but to each their own. I find their show entertaining, well paced and with high production values. I also really enjoy the music chosen for each section. I don't always agree with their opinion on games/systems, and they do make mistakes from time to time, but I don't expect everyone to share my opinion on everything or to be perfect (especially for a 2 man operation...), so it's all good for me.

I do appreciate you taking the time to make that list, as there were a couple of games there I had never heard of.

[TR0N]

[Pfloydguy2]

What are your thoughts on the Jaguar controller btw? I really don't like it, to me there is an element of cheapness and bad design in it. D-pad feels mushy, the buttons are so so and its bit awkward to hold. But I don't mind the numpad, in fact I quite like it. Its unique for its time and adds character. Quite useful too.

To Jags credit I must say that after trying the Wolf 3D port after a long time it really is quite excellent. In fact one of the best ways to play the game, even today. Its not like with Doom where the Jag port was great for its time but you have so many better versions to play today,

I like the controller overall.  It does feel a bit cheap, but part of that is how light-weight it is.  I like how it fits perfectly in my hands.  I have big hands, so some controllers like the NES's and PCE's are a little uncomfortable.  And I like the idea of the keypad, because it gives you a lot of control potential for PC ports like Syndicate, Baldies, and Theme Park, without an overly cumbersome control scheme.  It also allows you to go right to the weapon you want in games like Doom, where most console ports make you cycle through all the weapons to get to the one you want.  The keypad is in a good spot where you can access it on the fly without having to look down at your controller, and it doesn't get in the way of the fire buttons and D-pad.

On that note, I don't care much for the D-Pad.  Like the Genesis D-Pad, it's effective, but it doesn't feel as satisfying as something like the SNES or Dualshock.  The Pro Controller is a step up with shoulder buttons and three extra fire buttons, but it's stupidly expensive, so a lot of people have never tried it.  There is a project at AtariAge to make more Pro Controllers but obviously without the Atari logo.

[Pfloydguy2]

Going back to Game Sack, I think their take on the Jaguar seemed pretty fair. They only missed a couple of your recommended games, so I'm not sure why you have such strong negative feelings towards them, but to each their own. I find their show entertaining, well paced and with high production values. I also really enjoy the music chosen for each section. I don't always agree with their opinion on games/systems, and they do make mistakes from time to time, but I don't expect everyone to share my opinion on everything or to be perfect (especially for a 2 man operation...), so it's all good for me.

Game Sack is entertaining.  I have nothing wrong with somebody evaluating something and coming to a different conclusion than me.  My biggest issue with Game Sack's take on the Jag is that right from the start, they treated it like it was a joke.  It didn't seem like they were giving it a fair chance at all, based on their snickering, the goofy faces they make when they mention the Jaguar, and their sarcastic comments about the quality of the system.  It's clear their minds were made up before they even played the games.  It's a bit like the difference between constructive criticism and playground bullying - the problem isn't the criticism, but the way it's delivered.  I've watched probably 20-30 Game Sack episodes, and they don't usually treat their subject material that way unless they're making tongue-in-cheek stabs at each other about Sega vs. Nintendo.  Dave even acknowledges at the end that he knows he probably pissed off any Atari fans watching the video.

[nopepper]

On that note, I don't care much for the D-Pad.  Like the Genesis D-Pad, it's effective, but it doesn't feel as satisfying as something like the SNES or Dualshock.

Hey now, please tell me you are not talking about the 6 button Genesis dpad, because there is no way the Jaguar (or any other) controller can approximate the perfection that controller's pad achieved, especially compared to the the SNES's or Dual Shock's dpad. I guess that can be subjective, but man, that dpad just feels soooo good in comparison to everything else pretty much, ever (yeah, even the Saturn). The only one that comes close, oddly enough, is the Gameboy Micro.

Game Sack is entertaining.  I have nothing wrong with somebody evaluating something and coming to a different conclusion than me.  My biggest issue with Game Sack's take on the Jag is that right from the start, they treated it like it was a joke.  It didn't seem like they were giving it a fair chance at all, based on their snickering, the goofy faces they make when they mention the Jaguar, and their sarcastic comments about the quality of the system.  It's clear their minds were made up before they even played the games.  It's a bit like the difference between constructive criticism and playground bullying - the problem isn't the criticism, but the way it's delivered.  I've watched probably 20-30 Game Sack episodes, and they don't usually treat their subject material that way unless they're making tongue-in-cheek stabs at each other about Sega vs. Nintendo.  Dave even acknowledges at the end that he knows he probably pissed off any Atari fans watching the video.

Game Sack has taken the same snarky approach towards other beleaguered consoles/handhelds and have come away impressed after actually playing them (such as the Game Gear). So it might just be that the Jaguar is simply not that good in their eyes...and that they are aware that the Jaguar's fan base is emotionally attached in such a way to get defensive about their stance on it (something I was not until now).

[Pfloydguy2]

I was referring to the stock 3-button Genesis pad.  I've always thought that thing felt cumbersome.  The one I use is a 6-button, because it feels far better than the original.

[esteban]

I was referring to the stock 3-button Genesis pad.  I've always thought that thing felt cumbersome.  The one I use is a 6-button, because it feels far better than the original.

I don’t like the d-pads on 3- or -6 button Genesis controllers.

They are sloppy and mushy and just don’t have “precision” I need.

Then again, I am *not* a fan of the versus-fighting genre... so maybe the six-button pad worked really well with SFII its brethren?

At least the Genesis controllers were better than the SMS pads... I’ll grant you that.

Ha!



It really is a subjective topic, though, obviously. I’ve talked to so many folks who *like* the various first-party Genesis controllers... despite their sloppy, crappy mush.

Oh well.

(That last comment was a gratuitous troll.)

[Strider77]

The Genesis 3 and 6 button pads are fine. It's 8 way and digital...    you press it one way and it goes. You don't have to press extra hard for the diagnols etc. They aren't lacking any precision. Fighting games are where precision arguably factors in the most. Double rolls motions etc require alot more precision than pointing in a single direction to move a sprite.

Especially the 6 button pad...    it's basically a Saturn pad (the best pad the world has seen). The digital pad has the same design on both the 6 button Genesis and Saturn pads in the way it functions.

Having said that, I didn't have issues with pads till the 3DO or PS1 pad showed up. Ive had some PCE pads where the diagnosis were a little stiff but that seemed to go away after they were broken in more.

[ClodBuster]

I'm not keen on the Genesis 3-button controller either. The build quality, even speaking for the official Sega Mega Drive and Genesis 3-button controllers packed in with the systems, was all over the place. Some were acceptable, some were worse.
I can tolerate the 6-button, however.

Another problem on mushy d-pads, they make going straight left and right without accidentally pressing diagonally a chore. This is especially a problem for games where you need a precise discrete input in all eight directions, e.g. both traditional (Contra) as well as overhead run & guns (Shock Troopers), any game that uses "up" for jumping (lots of 2D fighters), hell even traditional Castlevania's method of using secondary weapons relies on a reliable 8-way pad.

[majors]

Let see that Dave and Joe have to say on controllers!

[nopepper]

I still prefer the 6 button genesis controller over the Saturn, because it feels less plasticy when you press the buttons. I dont find the pad mushy at all, and think it is extremely precise for any type of game.

In regards to the Game Sack controller episode, I learned that Joe has girl hands that Seinfeld would approve.