MSR *WILL* be finished, come hell or high water... hell more likely.

[nodtveidt]

Neutopia III was started long before the trademark was re-established. I would love to see them pursue legal action against us... that would be one hell of a publicity boost for us.

[ParanoiaDragon]

If they come banging down the door after people making a few hundred copies who are making 0 profit, then we'll just change it into a spiritual sequal.  It's not a series like say...Cosmic Fantasy or Ys, where characters from previous games are in it.  Since each game is it's own epoch.  The second game only had 2 character's from the 1st, Dirth & Jazeta.  Everything else was fresh material.  So if there's any characters that are in N3 that are from previous games, it should be easy to change their names, but still keep the story the same.

Also, I was thinking, I don't know much about trademarks or whatever, but, I think the names Neutopia I & II are trademarked, but not the Neutopia name in general    Even still, when we're done, I'd love to sell it to Konami so that they can release it on the VC & PS3.  Actually, I think N1 & 2 are on PS3 as well. Or maybe it's just the first one so far?


This makes me think of when Hasbro almost lost the name "Megatron"!  Trademarks only last so long unless they are renewed.

[arromdee]

If they come banging down the door after people making a few hundred copies who are making 0 profit, then we'll just change it into a spiritual sequal. 

They can come bang down the door after you've made a couple of hundred copies but before you've sold them.  You will then be out the money it takes to make those copies.  You don't have to be making profit for them to come after you.

As for being renewed, as I pointed out, putting the games on the VC effectively does mean the trademarks are renewed.  You might be able to get away with saying that Neutopia 3 was announced before the games made it to VC, but ultimately using that as your defense is still going to require paying for a lawyer.

[GohanX]

well they have to.  that's how it works lol.

otherwise they make a defective disc, and piss everyone off, and have to fix it.  

and that would be a waste of money and resources for the company.

I've done a little CD duplicating on a much smaller scale, but what I mean is that many people would just check to see that they had a perfect 1:1 copy, and wouldn't notice or care that there was a "buzzing" track. The attitude would be "If a track if f*cked up it's their own damn fault for sending a bad master disc, I made a perfect copy." Obviously this is terrible customer service, but that's how a lot of places operate.

[ParanoiaDragon]

If they come banging down the door after people making a few hundred copies who are making 0 profit, then we'll just change it into a spiritual sequal.  

They can come bang down the door after you've made a couple of hundred copies but before you've sold them.  You will then be out the money it takes to make those copies.  You don't have to be making profit for them to come after you.

That I know, it really depends on how desperate they are really.  Maybe Konami is hurting for $, I don't know.  I know that alot of big companies really just don't care about people with copywrited or trademarked material.  It's usually when those people get big that the companies start to attack.  Though, it does seem like people in general are getting more & more sue happy.

Then a spiritual sequal it is, Neutopia 3, is no more.

Or maybe we could just release it for free.  That means no physical copy, which for me, is a big bummer, but still, it'll be nice to have for people to play no matter what form it takes.  I haven't heard of anyone getting shot down for making new Mario, Metroid, Zelda, etc. for free, they're all over the net, & have been for years.  The only one I can think of that got shot down, was an N64 version of Chrono Trigger IIRC?

[arromdee]

They can always say "we're going to sue you for what you already did in the past, unless you agree to this settlement, which obliges you to destroy all copies of the game whether renamed or not".

[Bonknuts]

Or maybe we could just release it for free.

 Unfortunately, that won't necessarily stop a C&D :/

I haven't heard of anyone getting shot down for making new Mario, Metroid, Zelda, etc.

 I have. Usually rom hacks are exempt from this, but there was even a famous Chrono Trigger rom hack that got a C&D because it gained so much popularity (it wasn't even finished, either).

[nodtveidt]

A C&D doesn't mean shit. It's all bark with no bite. And dragging an indie into the courtroom for something so petty makes the company out to be a laughing stock in the industry. They cannot bully me.

[Black Tiger]

Or maybe we could just release it for free.

 Unfortunately, that won't necessarily stop a C&D :/

I haven't heard of anyone getting shot down for making new Mario, Metroid, Zelda, etc.

 I have. Usually rom hacks are exempt from this, but there was even a famous Chrono Trigger rom hack that got a C&D because it gained so much popularity (it wasn't even finished, either).

Sega also stopped the free Streets of Rage game.

Neutopia III would be diffetent that the CT and SoR sequels, in that it wouldn't use any assets from published games. I do think that legal action is more likely now that Konami is involved.

I think that it would be best to to code name the project Neutopia III and just release it with the subtitle as the official title.

[sunteam_paul]

Call it Newtopia.

[arromdee]

No company will be made a laughing stock in the industry for suing fans.  They may be a laughingstock in a few circles on the Internet, but that's all.  It's not going to hurt them in any real way.  Do you really think that Square Enix was made a laughingstock for shutting down Chrono Resurrection?  Maybe to a few people's friends, but it certainly doesn't hurt their profits, and the stockholders don't care and probably would approve if they had even heard of it.

And yes, they can bully you.  Unless you're going to refuse a court order and get arrested and sent off to jail.  The whole point of jail is to bully the person being sent to jail, and you're not immune to it.

[spenoza]

I think the point is that they would only be on the hook for the title, nothing else, and in that case they can change the title. They already said they're not using any assets from the original game, so there's no copyright infringement. If all that's going on it a trademark issue, the worst that will happen is they have to change the name.

Trademark issues have a lot more graduated path of resolution, legally speaking, than copyright and patent claims.

[sunteam_paul]

Call it HuTOPIA and put it on card.

[Arkhan]

I hope you all realize its the copyright that you are really worried about, and those last for a long ass time.    Trademarks establish something used within trade, like a logo and name.  Aetherbyte is trademarked.  It's my mark used during trade.  You don't trademark the contents of the game, and you don't trademark the word itself.  You trademark the logo.  The appearance and everything have to be documented and if you start using the word in a different style, you have to get a new trademark.

Neutopia's trademark being active is something entirely different.  This would be an issue if you release something with NEUTOPIA all over it.  It wouldn't even matter what you release, as long as it says Neutopia.  In this case, it looks like you planned on using the Neutopia logo, so you're hosed right there.  It's possible the trademark never actually ended.  There'd be what a 2 year time frame where it may have been inactive and you announced Neutopia 3?  For all we all know, they could have renewed it.  I see it was renewed in 1993, so that makes it good til at least 2003.  They probably renewed it.  It's pocket change for them to protect their stuff.

You've been infringing on the copyright with Neutopia 3 since you announced it, as it never actually expired. 

If they decide to pursue it, you can claim "they can't bully me" all you want.  However, they have the funds and manpower to ream your ass open wider than Goatse's if they want to, as you are messing with their copyright and trademark all in one package.

A C&D is like a warning.  "Stop doing this before we f*ck you up".  I'd consider getting one of those before getting raped a blessing.

Publicity wouldn't likely benefit you anyways, as you'd be so f*cked financially that you'd have nowhere to go with it.    Court isn't free. Especially if you lose.

and that's if you even get publicity,  This isn't Square Soft, and you're not jockin' Chrono Trigger.  You'd have to do the work yourself to get people to notice probably.  Post all over DigitPress and shit until enough people notice.

but even then, who's to say people outside of PCEFX would even give two shits.

[nodtveidt]

No company will be made a laughing stock in the industry for suing fans.

Yeah they will. Being able to bully other companies is a big deal to corporate America, and getting the proverbial middle finger flipped at you and then being forced into court means that you don't have the savvy to manipulate others... and that makes you weak, and a laughing stock. And it's even moreso knowing the fact that it's Konami who holds the puppet strings now... they're notorious for their bully tactics and legal threats.

And yes, they can bully you.  Unless you're going to refuse a court order and get arrested and sent off to jail.  The whole point of jail is to bully the person being sent to jail, and you're not immune to it.

Let them take us to court. It'll be fun. Then they will have to prove not only infringement but also profit loss. Also, there is no copyright infringement... we're not actually using any of their copyrighted work. The trademark? Sure... but if push comes to shove, we just change the name and there ain't a lick they can do against us.

Don't think I haven't already fully researched all of this over the years.