Author Topic: 1up.com: Saving the System - TurboGrafx-16  (Read 5596 times)

nodtveidt

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Re: 1up.com: Saving the System - TurboGrafx-16
« Reply #30 on: November 06, 2011, 12:19:07 PM »
I never thought it was that bad, especially considering the low price of the TG16 when I bought it. When you add everything up, it comes out to about the same as other consoles of the era for the basics. CDROM drives weren't cheap for either console back then, so that's really a non-issue. I thought that the Booster accessories were kind of stupid when the CDROM accessory had all their function and then some, but hey... NEC liked their add-ons.

henrycsc

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Re: 1up.com: Saving the System - TurboGrafx-16
« Reply #31 on: November 06, 2011, 12:35:51 PM »
The TGCD and the TurboExpress were extremely expensive, but they were also very expensive to produce back then.
It would have been nice to at least have the tap packaged with an extra controller.  Didn't the genesis only come with one controller in the box?  Having a tap/pad combo might have evened out some of the whining. 

Also they could have provided an alternate version with the turbo booster plus built in.  That probably would have gotten a lot of attention - having memory save built into the console.  Would there have been a conflict with using such a system on a TGCD base that also has the memory save?

I personally like(d) the idea of the tap.  The 5 player turbo games were the first party games that I was exposed to.  Did they invent this concept or were there (more than 2 player) party games before NEC?
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DragonmasterDan

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Re: 1up.com: Saving the System - TurboGrafx-16
« Reply #32 on: November 06, 2011, 12:44:42 PM »
The TGCD and the TurboExpress were extremely expensive, but they were also very expensive to produce back then.
It would have been nice to at least have the tap packaged with an extra controller.  Didn't the genesis only come with one controller in the box?  Having a tap/pad combo might have evened out some of the whining. 

The original model Genesis came with one controller, and RF switch an Altered Beast. It also had TWO controller ports, and an AV out port (yes, it required buying a cable but it was cheaper than a Turbo Booster), and a stereo sound headphone out port on the front. The original model SNES came with two controllers, stereo AV cables, and an RF switch (along with Super Mario World).

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I personally like(d) the idea of the tap.  The 5 player turbo games were the first party games that I was exposed to.  Did they invent this concept or were there (more than 2 player) party games before NEC?

there were four player games on the NES that required the NES Satellite or Four Score. The Atari 5200 had some four player games as well.
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BigusSchmuck

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Re: 1up.com: Saving the System - TurboGrafx-16
« Reply #33 on: November 06, 2011, 01:10:00 PM »
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there were four player games on the NES that required the NES Satellite or Four Score. The Atari 5200 had some four player games as well.
The four player games on the NES were far and between. I don't even think the original Bomberman on the NES was four players. I do know that the SNES, Genesis at the time had few 4 player games and I believe it wasn't until the Saturn when we saw 8 player games. Anyway, as far as I know, the turbo/pce had quite a few more multiplayer games then the Genesis or the SNES even with the 1 port handicap.

spenoza

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Re: 1up.com: Saving the System - TurboGrafx-16
« Reply #34 on: November 06, 2011, 05:38:40 PM »
You don't get it because you don't understand how the system works internally. It is far easier to use a single port to do multiplayer, because you are polling a single port on a timer rather than polling one port and then a second port on a timer. It keeps code size and complexity down.

I would contend that there are other ways to have included more than one port and still have used the single timer polling setup. One would be to put all 5 ports on the system. This would have made the PC engine larger, true, but not a lot larger. The tap is mostly air and cables inside, but inside the system they could have used a different wiring scheme. Another solution would have been to use a different type of controller connector. Maybe one where the 1P port has only a couple pin holes but the 2P port is the same shape with more pins. Controllers have only a few pins and can connect to either port, but you can buy a 4 player tap that only works plugged into port 2 that gives you the full 5 controller array. Even better, have two ports and a mediating chip that can run the ports in two different modes. If a controller is connected it polls the port one way and if a tap is connected to one or both it polls them a different way. The chip then passes up the data to the system in a standardized fashion regardless of whether it is getting the input from a controller connected directly or via a tap. Remove the need of the programmer to have to interpret controller input. There are just off the top of my head and not very elegant. I'm sure a dedicated hardware engineer could do a lot better.

I do still think the single controller port looked cool on the PCE due to the size. On the TG it just looked stupid. The whole "multiplayer by design" thing seems like a misread of the readiness of the market, especially given how many games were released that didn't even have 2 player play. Sure, it might have been easier to program, but having to buy another peripheral means you're programming to a smaller audience, and especially in Japan, you're not likely to have more than two people in front of a TV at any given time, anyway. The 5-player thing would definitely have been more of an advantage in the US. If only NEC/TTI had managed to attract some kind of critical sports support ('cause TV Sports just didn't do it). A good sports series tie-up and 5 controller ports on the front of the system could have been something of a marketing coup. What if they'd struck a deal with EA?

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I never thought it was that bad, especially considering the low price of the TG16 when I bought it. When you add everything up, it comes out to about the same as other consoles of the era for the basics.

The price for the TG was only lower once the market for the TG was already on the decline. Not major decline yet, but decline all the same. I bought my system when the price dropped to $99 (but didn't yet have Bonk as the pack-in) and the other systems were still $149, but at that time only Toys R Us still had a great selection. EB and Software Etc had acceptable shelf space devoted to the system (a single, square patch of wall), but I never saw TG stuff at Sears, very little at KB, and never at the big box stores. The only games I remember being released new once I'd bought my system came from TTI or WD. Every NEC game was already pretty much on the market by the time the price dropped, IIRC.
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DragonmasterDan

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Re: 1up.com: Saving the System - TurboGrafx-16
« Reply #35 on: November 06, 2011, 09:37:27 PM »

The four player games on the NES were far and between. I don't even think the original Bomberman on the NES was four players. I do know that the SNES, Genesis at the time had few 4 player games and I believe it wasn't until the Saturn when we saw 8 player games. Anyway, as far as I know, the turbo/pce had quite a few more multiplayer games then the Genesis or the SNES even with the 1 port handicap.


Yeah, the original Bomberman does not support it, but a lot of games did. Per Wikipedia,

    * Bomberman II
    * Danny Sullivan's Indy Heat
    * Gauntlet II
    * Greg Norman's Golf Power
    * Harlem Globetrotters
    * Kings of the Beach
    * Magic Johnson's Fast Break
    * Monster Truck Rally
    * M.U.L.E.[2]
    * NES Play Action Football
    * A Nightmare on Elm Street
    * Nintendo World Cup
    * R.C. Pro-Am II
    * Rackets & Rivals
    * Roundball: 2 on 2 Challenge
     * Spot
    * Smash TV
    * Super Off Road
    * Super Jeopardy!
    * Super Spike V'Ball
    * Swords and Serpents
    * Top Players' Tennis

That's 22 games, while not a ton of games, it's definitely notable.
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Arkhan

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Re: 1up.com: Saving the System - TurboGrafx-16
« Reply #36 on: November 07, 2011, 01:15:50 AM »
They should have just wired the turbo tap internally and attached it to the back of the controller port.

But, it would look really retarded with 5 controller ports in the front of it. 

It's not a big deal for the PCE, since the PCE succeeded hardcore there.

But the Turbob should've had the tap wired up inside.
[Fri 19:34]<nectarsis> been wanting to try that one for awhile now Ope
[Fri 19:33]<Opethian> l;ol huge dong

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DragonmasterDan

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Re: 1up.com: Saving the System - TurboGrafx-16
« Reply #37 on: November 07, 2011, 01:51:07 AM »
They should have just wired the turbo tap internally and attached it to the back of the controller port.

But, it would look really retarded with 5 controller ports in the front of it. 

It's not a big deal for the PCE, since the PCE succeeded hardcore there.

But the Turbob should've had the tap wired up inside.


I made a mock up of what one would look like with three in front, keep in mind this is of full size TG16 ports and not the smaller mini ports used on the Duo and PC engine. You could very easily put the extra 2 or 3 ports on the side of the system.

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Arkhan

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Re: 1up.com: Saving the System - TurboGrafx-16
« Reply #38 on: November 07, 2011, 02:00:04 AM »
You could very easily put the extra 2 or 3 ports on the side of the system.

This would be a very poor idea.

It wouldn't sit right on shelves, someone would undoubtedly twist the unit around while moving around flailing in the middle of super volleyball.

It reminds me of the minimig, that stupid amiga clone that has ports on every friggin side, so you can't sit the thing anywhere nicely.  Theres octopus wires everywhere
[Fri 19:34]<nectarsis> been wanting to try that one for awhile now Ope
[Fri 19:33]<Opethian> l;ol huge dong

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DragonmasterDan

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Re: 1up.com: Saving the System - TurboGrafx-16
« Reply #39 on: November 07, 2011, 02:03:25 AM »
This would be a very poor idea.

It wouldn't sit right on shelves, someone would undoubtedly twist the unit around while moving around flailing in the middle of super volleyball.

It reminds me of the minimig, that stupid amiga clone that has ports on every friggin side, so you can't sit the thing anywhere nicely.  Theres octopus wires everywhere

You could also just put them further over on the lefthand side of the system. I'm just saying considering the size of the TG16 it's very easy to include five ports on the system.
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Arkhan

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Re: 1up.com: Saving the System - TurboGrafx-16
« Reply #40 on: November 07, 2011, 02:13:23 AM »
Yeah if you stuck all 5 in a row on the front, I'd be down.

I thought about doing it myself with my TurboTap, but I like the turbo tap too much to open it and ruin it.
[Fri 19:34]<nectarsis> been wanting to try that one for awhile now Ope
[Fri 19:33]<Opethian> l;ol huge dong

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Joe Redifer

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Re: 1up.com: Saving the System - TurboGrafx-16
« Reply #41 on: November 07, 2011, 06:44:20 AM »
They should have used the Mini DINs as ports, not the giganto-DINs.

DragonmasterDan

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Re: 1up.com: Saving the System - TurboGrafx-16
« Reply #42 on: November 07, 2011, 06:56:16 AM »
They should have used the Mini DINs as ports, not the giganto-DINs.

No argument here, I had repeated problems with the pins on the regular DINs breaking off and having to replace controllers. I'm sure I'm not the only one.
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Necromancer

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Re: 1up.com: Saving the System - TurboGrafx-16
« Reply #43 on: November 07, 2011, 07:48:12 AM »
Not much that hasn't been discussed here ad naseum, but this caught my eye:

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... to lesser-known marvels like the multiplayer puzzle game Color Wars.

I wonder why this particular title caught the author's attention; it seemed pretty blah to me.
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Joe Redifer

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Re: 1up.com: Saving the System - TurboGrafx-16
« Reply #44 on: November 07, 2011, 04:50:50 PM »
Does anyone know why the giant DINs were used for the TurboGrafx-16 instead of the mini-DIN used on the PCE?  Was this sort sort of sick and twisted region protection?