1up.com: Saving the System - TurboGrafx-16

[DragonmasterDan]

 

I personally have not noticed the TurboGrafx-16 or DUO considered a failure in gaming circles like the Saturn frequently is.  Both are considered elite hard-core gaming havens by real gamers, but in my experience only the TG16/DUO gets recognized as such.  It is nearly impossible to find a thread about the Saturn that doesn't include the phrase "horrible mess," by comparison. 

Wait a minute, did 1-up seriously base a multi-page article on multiple consoles on the opinions of Victor Ireland?!

There's other reasons for that. I LOVE the Saturn, but.. it was extremely difficult to develop for and properly optimize the hardware. It was expensive and difficult to consolidate making it more difficult for Sega to keep up with price drops, it was launched early with very few games in the US.

Simply put there's a lot more to complain about with the Saturn, it was a horrible mess, but that doesn't mean it also wasn't a great hardcore gaming system.

[sheath]

 

I personally have not noticed the TurboGrafx-16 or DUO considered a failure in gaming circles like the Saturn frequently is.  Both are considered elite hard-core gaming havens by real gamers, but in my experience only the TG16/DUO gets recognized as such.  It is nearly impossible to find a thread about the Saturn that doesn't include the phrase "horrible mess," by comparison. 

Wait a minute, did 1-up seriously base a multi-page article on multiple consoles on the opinions of Victor Ireland?!

There's other reasons for that. I LOVE the Saturn, but.. it was extremely difficult to develop for and properly optimize the hardware. It was expensive and difficult to consolidate making it more difficult for Sega to keep up with price drops, it was launched early with very few games in the US.

Simply put there's a lot more to complain about with the Saturn, it was a horrible mess, but that doesn't mean it also wasn't a great hardcore gaming system.

Yeah, I question that line every time I see it though.  I think it is an exaggeration to say that the Saturn was overly complex to code for in comparison to contemporary consoles.  The reality was that it was more time consuming to hand write 3D engines in assembly than it was to use Sony's C libraries for the PS1.  Even with that difference though, many Saturn games were ported by a single programmer, that is a far cry from being overly complex.

For posterity, I hope the record gets set straight that Sega's not providing adequate C libraries as early as Sony did created the perception of the Saturn's complexity long before developers learned of any idiosyncrasies in the actual hardware design. 

To me it is no different than somebody saying that the PCE/TG16 couldn't do parallax because it was too hard to implement.  Not only do games in the existing library prove this statement false, we also know technically that the system could handle parallax through various means.

[DragonmasterDan]

Yeah, I question that line every time I see it though.  I think it is an exaggeration to say that the Saturn was overly complex to code for in comparison to contemporary consoles.  The reality was that it was more time consuming to hand write 3D engines in assembly than it was to use Sony's C libraries for the PS1.  Even with that difference though, many Saturn games were ported by a single programmer, that is a far cry from being overly complex.

For posterity, I hope the record gets set straight that Sega's not providing adequate C libraries as early as Sony did created the perception of the Saturn's complexity long before developers learned of any idiosyncrasies in the actual hardware design. 

To me it is no different than somebody saying that the PCE/TG16 couldn't do parallax because it was too hard to implement.  Not only do games in the existing library prove this statement false, we also know technically that the system could handle parallax through various means.

It was definitely more time consuming. Also, you left out the whole performance hit when going from Quadralaterals to Polygonal Triangles. And Sega never provided C libraries that were comparable to the development tools Sony did, that's a lot of the problem. The unusual architecture made the system far more difficult to develop for, plain and simple.

[Arkhan]

Not to mention the Saturn in general is just wonky to program for.  It's powerful, but wonky in comparison to say, The Glorious PC-FX, and even the PS1

[T2KFreeker]

Not to mention the Saturn in general is just wonky to program for.  It's powerful, but wonky in comparison to say, The Glorious PC-FX, and even the PS1

Man, I hated the original Playstation. Not to say that the system doesn't have good games, but I still have a LAUNCH Saturn that still works. However, I went through 7 Playstations. How is that possible especially since I played my Saturn more.

[A_Locomotive]

Not to mention the Saturn in general is just wonky to program for.  It's powerful, but wonky in comparison to say, The Glorious PC-FX, and even the PS1

Man, I hated the original Playstation. Not to say that the system doesn't have good games, but I still have a LAUNCH Saturn that still works. However, I went through 7 Playstations. How is that possible especially since I played my Saturn more.

I've gone through 4, 2 of the original design and 2 of the slim models. The last slim works but it for some reason needs to be upside down to work. lol

[BigusSchmuck]

I've gone through 4, 2 of the original design and 2 of the slim models. The last slim works but it for some reason needs to be upside down to work. lol

Yeah went through my share of ps1s and ps2s as well hence the reason why I never bothered with the ps3 or the xbox360, just too high of a failure rate. I'm still very amazed how well the duo has held up even after 20 years, I mean seriously, people are just now starting to have problems with them. Kind of like the toyata supras, over engineered to last a lifetime. ^^

[roflmao]

I'm on my second PS1.  The first one I tried to modify myself and botched.  It still played games but wouldn't play audio CDs, so I gave it to a friend.  The second one (which I purchased in '99 or '00) is still running strong.  I had no idea they had such a high failure rate.  

EDIT: I'm still on my first PS2 which I bought in 2003/4.  Though when HD Advance was released I quickly bought it, stuck an unused hard drive in my PS2 and moved all my games over to it, so maybe that has helped with its longevity.  I still have a few games for the PS2 that wouldn't play properly from the HD Advance, but it's few and far between so the DVD Drive doesn't get a ton of use.

[sheath]

My college roommate had an early PS1 without the proprietary A/V output.  We had to turn it on its top to play games only a couple of years after he bought it.  My PS2 has had the laser adjusted twice, and my 360 has been factory repaired three times.  Yeah, that is what I would call a horrible mess. 

[A_Locomotive]

I've gone through 4, 2 of the original design and 2 of the slim models. The last slim works but it for some reason needs to be upside down to work. lol

Yeah went through my share of ps1s and ps2s as well hence the reason why I never bothered with the ps3 or the xbox360, just too high of a failure rate. I'm still very amazed how well the duo has held up even after 20 years, I mean seriously, people are just now starting to have problems with them. Kind of like the toyata supras, over engineered to last a lifetime. ^^

Early PS2's were a doozy as well. My first one did the thing so many launch ones did and just slowly lose its ability to read, first blue discs, then PS1, then all. Everyone I know who bought a launch PS2 had this happen to them, was very frustrating since this happened not long after the warranty was up. My current one is holding up pretty well, its had some read issues but a little cleaning has always fixed it. But just in case I recently bought a new one to keep in storage for when this one dies.

[T2KFreeker]

They can't build proper consoles anymore, and that's very sad indeed. I swear that one of the reasons they have moved from Cart to CD is so people have to spend more money on replacing the systems due to them wearing out. I'd buy a console that used SD Card as it's media or something similar. Not like you can't get the same performance out of it without all the moving parts. Then again, I'm sure they'd find a way to screw that up too. Sign of the times is this: My Six Switch Atari 2600, which is over 30 years old, fires right up. Consoles made less than five years ago are dead. See a problem here?

[nodtveidt]

Your 6 switch Atari 2600 also doesn't contain tons of heat-sensitive components in a package which only has proper heat exhaust when boneheads don't cover the air escape.

[Joe Redifer]

I still have my original O.G. launch day PS1 (with the dedicated Composite and Stereo outputs in addition to the multi-out).  Some games I need to put the unit upside down, mostly CD-Rs.  I do not understand why this helps it to work better.

[T2KFreeker]

I still have my original O.G. launch day PS1 (with the dedicated Composite and Stereo outputs in addition to the multi-out).  Some games I need to put the unit upside down, mostly CD-Rs.  I do not understand why this helps it to work better.

It's a flaw in the motors from Sony. This has been the case from way back. I have had a DVD Player from Sony, a CD Player and even, get this, a Laserdisc player that were the same. Mind you, in the end, the LD Player had to be put almost completely on it's side to get the motor spinning. I ended up trashing it, sadly in the end because I wasn't about to destroy a Laserdisc just to see if it would work upside down.

[geise]

I have a pre-order launch PS1.  After 6 months I got the skipping issue, and had to flip it upside down.  Well eventually I just replaced the lens and it is still working like a champ.

I also still have my launch Saturn.  I don't feel that it was a failure in the US.  Yeah, it didn't do great sales wise compard to the ps1 or n64.  However, it did last on store shelves a lot longer than the US Duo. (1995-1998)  Regardless those two systems are my favorite!