Interest check: PC Engine Duo-R whitening service

[HercTNT]

thanks henry, i was not aware of that. i'm considering getting the few yellowspots off my duo-r.

[farankoshan]

Try to use Magic Eraser... does wonders on all my retro stuff.

[Can i just say, I'm so glad this forum is back.. ]

[BlackandBlue]

I had retr0brighted my PCE briefcase, a couple years ago.  It's yellow again and hardly saw any sunlight...

[tggodfrey]

If you want a chemical to stop drying out, Either place it in a plastic bag and squeeze as much air out as pssible and tie it off or wrap with plastic wrap to reduce the amount of exposure to atmosphere.  The reason it keeps drying is becuase of the evaporation rate of the paste.

Good luck

Terry

[nat]

I had retr0brighted my PCE briefcase, a couple years ago.  It's yellow again and hardly saw any sunlight...

As I understand it, once the chemical reaction that causes the yellowing has begun in a piece of plastic, it can't be stopped.

All Retrobright does is remove the outer (yellow) layer, exposing the still-white plastic underneath. It's only a matter of time before the white turns yellow again.

Retrobright treats the symptom, not the cause.

[BlackandBlue]

I had retr0brighted my PCE briefcase, a couple years ago.  It's yellow again and hardly saw any sunlight...

As I understand it, once the chemical reaction that causes the yellowing has begun in a piece of plastic, it can't be stopped.

All Retrobright does is remove the outer (yellow) layer, exposing the still-white plastic underneath. It's only a matter of time before the white turns yellow again.

Retrobright treats the symptom, not the cause.

Yeah, but according to them, it was the reaction of the fire-retardant chemicals in the plastic that reacted with the UV light of the sun that caused the yellowing.  Unfortunately I don't thats the issue, or if it is, reoccurs.  It just seemed like a waste of money, since it yellowed again pretty quickly.

[nat]

Yeah, but I don't think you understand. Once the reaction starts it can't be stopped. It matters not if the plastic was exposed to UV light AFTER the Retrobright treatment; it obviously was BEFORE the treatment, and the reaction has already begun. It simply continues. You could lock your console in a pitch black room, never exposed to light of any kind, after a Retrobright treatment and it would still turn yellow again since the reaction began before the treatment.

Think of it like a cascade, chain-reaction scenario. A domino effect. You can remove the dominos that have already fallen, but you haven't stopped the dominos later in the chain from falling. Some people might get lucky in the amount of time it takes to yellow again, based on how far along the process was before the treatment, but the re-yellowing is inevitable.

A waste of money? I definitely agree.

[BlackandBlue]

Well, that makes this proposed service completely worthless

[nat]

I agree. I think the whole Retrobright thing is kind of dubious. Some people might get lucky and get a handful of non-yellow years after a treatment, but I certainly wouldn't feel good charging money for a process I couldn't guarantee.

[Mathius]

My brothers SNES stayed in a drawer for years and yellowed anyway. nat's explanation seems logical.

[HercTNT]

there are many types of abs plastic. Some of them will yellow no matter what you do, some of them will only yellow when exposed to uv light. Someone smarter than me can correct me on this, but its my understanding that retrobright works very well depending on what type you have. The stuff that yellows not matter what, will not hardly benefit. As Nat said, once the process starts it wont stop no matter what you do. The stuff that only yellows when exposed to uv benefits greatly from retrobright as the yellowing is only a surface issue. It is due to the type of fire retardant used in the plastic, and you have no way of knowing what type of plastic you have.  Retrobright is not a product but a community of enthusiasts that worked together over 7 years doing endless amount of testing to find a solution to the yellowing problem. I would have to imagine that they would know more about it than any of us. 

[D-Lite]

I think I'll throw in my two cents on this, being an actual organic chemist by trade.

We're dealing with two oxidizers, hydrogen peroxide and "Oxy", which is simply another type of peroxide, though really is sodium percarbonate, much weaker than peroxide itself.  I'm not at all sure both would be necessary here since we're dealing with two things that do the same thing, oxidize.  Simply you should be able to dip your console case in a bucket of just hydrogen peroxide and the process would work the same.  One benefit of H2O2 over bleach is that bleach f's up color.  The chloride itself is kinda nasty that way, but I would be curious to see the effect of toilet cleaner, which is a similar but less nasty reagent that bleach.  Specifically, we're talking about dimethyldichlorohydantoin, or chlorobromo or dibromo for that matter.  These may work well and are dirt freakin' cheap.

One thing that I understand but kinda wish didn't see is the use of UV light in conjunction with the peroxide slurry.  All the UV light does is decompose the peroxide reagent quicker.  Prolonged UV exposure will of course cause bleaching of the casing, but not for the timeline set in the process.  Has the group studied the effect without the UV light?  Another option, if it's found necessary to have the light, is a catalyst that activates the peroxide, causing the same potential acceleration of the reaction.  In chemistry we use tiny amounts of things like AIBN (controlled, explosive substance) or metal-based reagents like TEMPO or some such.  Haha, perhaps UV light is the safest option.

And for the record regarding nat's point about re-yellowing, I agree that the process is nice in the short term but some plastics will just yellow all over again.  This is not random though, as you can tell by the state of various units we've all seen.  It's highly environmental and can be related to atmospheric conditions such as temperature and humidity, smoke, UV exposure (that cuts both ways, in the obvious absence of something like, say, peroxide), etc.  I'm not so sure what causes it and if the process of yellowing can be avoided post-cleaning.  And to re-emphasize nat's point, you are treating the symptom, not the process.  Any form of bleaching, with sodium hypochlorite (bleach) or peroxide or peracids or percarbonates is simply bleaching out color just like you'd do with your hair or shirt or similar.  You are not changing the process that causes the yellow and unless that process is isolated or removed it will definitely yellow again.

[HercTNT]

I am not a chemist and can only go by what is up on their page. According to Retrobright, bromide is the offending chemical.  It is apparently part of the fire retardent chemical makeup and is the direct cause of most of the yellowing in plastic. Exposure to uv will react with the bromide and accelerates the yellowing.  They have tested retrobright with and without uv and it is essential. Sunlight will rapidly accelerate the process.  Peroxide will only "bleach" the plastic but will not tackle the yellowing completely. Its my understanding that the oxyclean works with the peroxide and uv light to reverse the yellowing. According to one of the main contributors it is possible to keep treating the surface of the plastic until the bromide is exhausted thus making almost impossible for the plastic to yellow again. One only needs to look at a two toned colored Snes to understand. half will be dark yellow, the other half as bright as it was brand new from 20 years ago.  He also stated that when the plastic is coated with a uv protective laqeur you can effectively stop the process permanetly.  Once again though i believe it depends on the plastic. Why do some plastics simply fade while others yellow. Why do nintendo's and super nintendo's have both brand new looking and bright yellow plastic. It seems that your mileage will vary.  I can say personally i have attempted retrobrighting on a severely yellowed snes with no luck whatsoever. I tried it again on a lightly yellowed pc-engine controller and managed to reduce the yellowing noticeably. That is as much as i can actually vouch for on the situation.

[SignOfZeta]

My Retrobright-ed IFU set-up did yellow again somewhat, but not as much as it was at first...yet. I did use Armor All on it in an attempt to slow re-yelowing.

[Arkhan]

Direct sunlight yellows plastic.

Screw retrobrite.  It's bathroom chemist bullshit.  You waste time/money doing retarded crap and have to deal with that stupid paste you create which can give not-so-even results.  It's also messy and stupid.

Here is how you retrobrite like a real human:

1) Get 40vol or stronger bleach developer from a salon.  sometimes you need a license for the 50 vol.  You can order "Urine Rescue" instead: http://prolinesupply.com/cart/urine-rescue-p-154.html

but 40 vol. really will do the trick.

2) Get a 10$ 10 gallon aquarium for fish and crap.  They are serously between 10 and 12$.  You shouldn't need anything bigger for consoles.  if you need something different, say for a 64C or other computer... go get a clear rubbermaid bin.  I prefer the aquariums.  You can be a cheapass and use a clear garbage bag and dump the stuff in.  It works, but man, you better be careful that way or you'll dump burny peroxide all up ons.

3) Create a displacer of some sort inside the aquarium.  That way, you use less peroxide.  I usually lay the thing I am bleaching inside the aquarium and then stick a bunch of glass drinking cups face down all over the spare space.  I also used some bricks wrapped in foil once.  Don't just use bricks or anything dirty/pourous.  It soaks the peroxide up and makes it cloudy and fizzy.  Screw that.

4) Dump the peroxide in.  Once it's completely covering the thing, you're done with that step. 

5) Stick it in direct sunlight for a few hours, and laugh at all the morons who are messing with oxy clean and goopy whatnot.

6) When you're done.  Save the tank of peroxide.  it's reusable! \o/

**If you live in depressing places like England where there is no sunlight, you can go buy a 10$ UVB bulb meant for a lizard at the same pet store you got your aquarium at.  You can also then buy a sweet 10$ sundome. The sundome has a reflective interior that extends the effective range of the rays.

Clamp it onto the aquarium using the clamp that came with the dome and aim it down at the glorious peroxide.  Success.  You can bleach your goods in your basement now.


I've bleached 1571's, 1541's, SFD-1001s, C64's, NES's, SNES, and all kinds of other crap using this method.  I've used the same peroxide for a long time. I think I've had the same peroxide in the tank for a few years.  Just keep it stored in a dark room with the top covered up.  I saranwrapped the top.