Author Topic: Flash carts for the pc engine/turbo  (Read 1764 times)

Joe Redifer

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Re: Flash carts for the pc engine/turbo
« Reply #30 on: December 04, 2011, 06:45:42 PM »
The guy who made the Everdrive said so on his site and I even asked him details about it.  He's working on the super-spectacular version of the Genesis Everdrive first, though (run games straight off of the SD card or some such without copying first, FM support for SMS games maybe, online support for multiplayer games, etc).

Supremo_Lagarto

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Re: Flash carts for the pc engine/turbo
« Reply #31 on: December 04, 2011, 07:24:28 PM »
The guy who made the Everdrive said so on his site and I even asked him details about it.  He's working on the super-spectacular version of the Genesis Everdrive first, though (run games straight off of the SD card or some such without copying first, FM support for SMS games maybe, online support for multiplayer games, etc).


My understanding is that the developer is the Ukrainian KRIKzz. I looked up the status of any PC Engine project and sure enough he does say that he has a concept for one. However, he indicates that (1) it is basically a low priority, (2) that he only has a PCB at this time, and (3) that any serious development will not occur before the summer of 2012. He did not seem too enthusiastic in his posts and I was not entirely sure if he was even serious when I read his responses.

Profit and demand are factors here.  This is why I would guess we will probably never see an Atari Jaguar flash device. I would be really annoyed if a Jag Everdrive came out before a PC Engine Everdrive came out though. LOL.

Here would be a source:
http://www.assemblergames.com/forums/showpost.php?p=537657&postcount=293
http://www.assemblergames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31764&page=6

However, several different sites are all saying the Turbo Everdrive is coming out anytime now, except of course KRIKzz' own site.


Joe Redifer

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Re: Flash carts for the pc engine/turbo
« Reply #32 on: December 04, 2011, 09:35:48 PM »
To hell with the Jaguar.  It doesn't deserve anything simply because it is a Jaguar.  Its fans are literally insane... they have to be.  It's the Jaguar after all.  The games on that thing are 90% pure shit.

You don't know Krikzz very well.  He is rarely ever "enthusiastic".  Nowhere did he say he wouldn't start working on it until summer of 2012.  He said "PCE release around summer 2012-ish".  But right now, the Mega Everdrive is his priority.  He's not looking to sell millions and millions.  I'm sure he'd sell more than enough to make up for the cost of designing one.  With your broken logic, the other PCE flashcards simply shouldn't exist, so "profit and demand" and comparisons to how much the Mega Drive sold worldwide are 100% irrelevant.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2011, 09:38:21 PM by Joe Redifer »

SignOfZeta

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Re: Flash carts for the pc engine/turbo
« Reply #33 on: December 05, 2011, 05:14:23 AM »
Jag fans are insane. That system sucks so much dick its just sad...however, it is the most fun Atari console (not counting the Lynx, which destroys anything with "Atari" written on it) so people who are just Atari fans in general love the piece of crap. (see: Stockholm Syndrome).

If I were making flash carts I would make a Jag one for sure. The systems fans will buy f*cking anything, plus they are mostly older types with good jobs and have the money to spend.

Arkhan

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Re: Flash carts for the pc engine/turbo
« Reply #34 on: December 05, 2011, 05:35:07 AM »
There were only something like 12.5 million PC Engine / Turbo's sold world wide, while there were 40 million Genesis / Megadrives sold worldwide and new Mega Drive knock-offs still being made.  Point being there are at least several million working Mega Drive's out there still being used, creating a significant market. That advantage is not shared by the PC Engine.
At least several million? Give me a break.  It only takes ~100 people to create a significant market for something as podunk as a flash device for a 25+ year old console

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Though everyone here would like a PC Engine Everdrive I can't see there being enough of a market for a professional developer to create and distribute one. I would imagine that is the reason the primitive Neo Team Flash cards are so expensive, to compensate for low demand.
Primitive?  Really?  They're as slim as a real HuCard, have a reset button, SRAM, and a custom USB reader for it.  That's why they're so expensive.  I don't know what's primitive about it.

Oh wait:
The NeoFlash is compatible with both systems.

Neo Flash is very picky with the systems it will work with. It is basically the luck of the draw. My Japanese Duo won't work with it (games load but crash and freeze within minutes), but a cheap beat up Turbo Grafx I purchased from ebay for $15 works with it perfectly. It requires a stronger +5 volt line in the Hucard slot than is necessary to play official games. Some systems have it, some do not.

You just tried to invalidate my statement, but ended up agreeing with me.  Are you sure you meant to do that?

It not working due to dodgy +5v line doesn't mean dick as far as region compatibility.  That +5v issue is present in either region.

I don't know on my own since I don't have this issue, but I wonder if big cards like Sys3, Arcade Card, SF][ or Populous work on a system where NeoFlash doesn't.

I also wonder if the lower cost NeoFlash would work fine where the one with SRAM and crap doesn't.

but what does it matter? It's all primitive caveman technology.
[Fri 19:34]<nectarsis> been wanting to try that one for awhile now Ope
[Fri 19:33]<Opethian> l;ol huge dong

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SNKNostalgia

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Re: Flash carts for the pc engine/turbo
« Reply #35 on: December 05, 2011, 05:45:05 AM »
Jag fans are insane. That system sucks so much dick its just sad...however, it is the most fun Atari console (not counting the Lynx, which destroys anything with "Atari" written on it) so people who are just Atari fans in general love the piece of crap. (see: Stockholm Syndrome).

It is funny how I have always wanted a Jag just for Aliens vs Predator for years. I have fun memories renting the system and playing it in 8th grade. Now I have lost some interest in getting one with the game. I did mess around with the game somewhat recently on the Jaguar emulator, which development has been abandoned for like 6-7 years now. I wish someone would make a full functioning emulator for the system since I really don't want to buy one just for one game.

Hell, I am not even sure what it would all run me if I bought it with AvP. Is it pretty expensive for the game? Correct me if I am wrong, but I think the Jaguar for the past few years goes for around $30 right? If it doesn't cost much, I may just get one anyway. I am not even sure what other games are worth a damn on it. Maybe Raiden?

Arkhan

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Re: Flash carts for the pc engine/turbo
« Reply #36 on: December 05, 2011, 06:33:26 AM »
The Jaguar has one good game.

Tempest 2000

oh and Defender 2000 or whatever.

AKA: 3Dish diddleremakes of games.
[Fri 19:34]<nectarsis> been wanting to try that one for awhile now Ope
[Fri 19:33]<Opethian> l;ol huge dong

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Duo_R

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Re: Flash carts for the pc engine/turbo
« Reply #37 on: December 05, 2011, 09:09:03 AM »

Didn't the 5V line cause problems with region switch boards?

There were only something like 12.5 million PC Engine / Turbo's sold world wide, while there were 40 million Genesis / Megadrives sold worldwide and new Mega Drive knock-offs still being made.  Point being there are at least several million working Mega Drive's out there still being used, creating a significant market. That advantage is not shared by the PC Engine.
At least several million? Give me a break.  It only takes ~100 people to create a significant market for something as podunk as a flash device for a 25+ year old console

Quote
Though everyone here would like a PC Engine Everdrive I can't see there being enough of a market for a professional developer to create and distribute one. I would imagine that is the reason the primitive Neo Team Flash cards are so expensive, to compensate for low demand.
Primitive?  Really?  They're as slim as a real HuCard, have a reset button, SRAM, and a custom USB reader for it.  That's why they're so expensive.  I don't know what's primitive about it.

Oh wait:
The NeoFlash is compatible with both systems.

Neo Flash is very picky with the systems it will work with. It is basically the luck of the draw. My Japanese Duo won't work with it (games load but crash and freeze within minutes), but a cheap beat up Turbo Grafx I purchased from ebay for $15 works with it perfectly. It requires a stronger +5 volt line in the Hucard slot than is necessary to play official games. Some systems have it, some do not.

You just tried to invalidate my statement, but ended up agreeing with me.  Are you sure you meant to do that?

It not working due to dodgy +5v line doesn't mean dick as far as region compatibility.  That +5v issue is present in either region.

I don't know on my own since I don't have this issue, but I wonder if big cards like Sys3, Arcade Card, SF][ or Populous work on a system where NeoFlash doesn't.

I also wonder if the lower cost NeoFlash would work fine where the one with SRAM and crap doesn't.

but what does it matter? It's all primitive caveman technology.
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Arkhan

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Re: Flash carts for the pc engine/turbo
« Reply #38 on: December 05, 2011, 09:40:30 AM »
That still has nothing to do with the flash card working on either regions system.

You tell the program to burn for TG or PCE.  The card is regionless until you burn stuff.  It works on either unit.
[Fri 19:34]<nectarsis> been wanting to try that one for awhile now Ope
[Fri 19:33]<Opethian> l;ol huge dong

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Duo_R

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Re: Flash carts for the pc engine/turbo
« Reply #39 on: December 05, 2011, 06:00:01 PM »

I think Raiden would be interesting to check out, but ya most of it is crap


The Jaguar has one good game.

Tempest 2000

oh and Defender 2000 or whatever.

AKA: 3Dish diddleremakes of games.
Add my YouTube channel:


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Supremo_Lagarto

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Re: Flash carts for the pc engine/turbo
« Reply #40 on: December 05, 2011, 08:32:48 PM »
You just tried to invalidate my statement, but ended up agreeing with me.  Are you sure you meant to do that?
No, I wasn't trying to invalidate his statement. I was agreeing with him. When I said "picky" I meant "picky" at random, not by region. I hope this isn't going to turn into another one of those things where someone wants to win an argument when there was not one to begin with.

When I have recommended people get an American Turbo Grafx unit for the device I was suggesting this because these are the cheapest NEC consoles and the least likely to have been modified by previous owners. I bought one for $15 just a few days ago.  I was not suggesting that only the American Turbo Grafx did not have this problem. The thing is, if you buy an American Turbo Grafx on eBay and it doesn't work with the card, you can easily sell it and buy another one until you find one that works. This is not the case with the Duo, which is quite expensive.

When I said the Neo Team flash device was primitive, I meant that it was primitive in comparison to the Everdrive which can support more memory and interchangeable flash cards. The Neo Team flash devices also do not work on all NEC systems. 16 Megabytes of flash memory is incredibly primitive by today's standards. The Everdrive is far superior to the Neo Team PC Engine flash device (and works on all standard Genesis/Megadrives as far as I know). Isn't that why you are all so enthusiastic that one will be released?

Whether we like it or not, there are less NEC Consoles out there than there are SNES, Genesis, Nintendos and their clones (which are still being made). This means that our beloved PC Engine will not get priority treatment over these other consoles. Again, this is just a reality we have to deal with.  I'm not saying it will never happen, I'm just telling you guys not to get your hopes up and not to hold your breath.

Quote from: Joe Redifer
You don't know Krikzz very well.  He is rarely ever "enthusiastic".  Nowhere did he say he wouldn't start working on it until summer of 2012.  He said "PCE release around summer 2012-ish".  But right now, the Mega Everdrive is his priority.  He's not looking to sell millions and millions.  I'm sure he'd sell more than enough to make up for the cost of designing one.  With your broken logic, the other PCE flashcards simply shouldn't exist, so "profit and demand" and comparisons to how much the Mega Drive sold worldwide are 100% irrelevant.
I didn't state that I knew him. I took his statement of a 2012 release to be an implication that serious development would not take place before 2012. The amount of consoles existing in the world which users would be buying these devices for is quite relevant because not only does the developer have more incentive to make those devices instead of devices for more obscure consoles, but he also has to support those devices that he has already sold. That is WHY the Mega Everdrive is the higher priority.

He is not all about profit, but profit is a factor. It isn't black or white.

« Last Edit: December 05, 2011, 08:48:43 PM by Supremo_Lagarto »

Joe Redifer

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Re: Flash carts for the pc engine/turbo
« Reply #41 on: December 05, 2011, 09:40:40 PM »
He's a Sega fan.  Otherwise he'd drop the Everdrive and focus on the Super Everdrive or maybe an NES Everdrive (which isn't even in the works as far as I know).  The market is there.  He just has other projects right now and I am willing to wait until late 2012 for the superior product.

esteban

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Re: Flash carts for the pc engine/turbo
« Reply #42 on: December 06, 2011, 12:01:03 AM »
Well, folks, I am still interested in the original plan (neoflash group rate), even if this fellow in the Ukraine (shout out to a fellow Ukranian!) delivers a well-functioning device 7-12 months from now.

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Arkhan

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Re: Flash carts for the pc engine/turbo
« Reply #43 on: December 06, 2011, 12:52:45 AM »
No, I wasn't trying to invalidate his statement. I was agreeing with him. When I said "picky" I meant "picky" at random, not by region. I hope this isn't going to turn into another one of those things where someone wants to win an argument when there was not one to begin with.
Whats with the his/him nonsense?  I don't have a clone.  There isn't really an argument from what I've gathered. 

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When I have recommended people get an American Turbo Grafx unit for the device I was suggesting this because these are the cheapest NEC consoles
Nope.  You're high.  Also, you can drop the American part.  It's kind of implied when you say Turbo Grafx-16.  No one cares about the PAL one.

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and the least likely to have been modified by previous owners.
Nope again! Region modded TG-16's are more common than region modded PCEs.  RGB mods are all over the duo, etc.  but this is irrelevant. 

Quote
I bought one for $15 just a few days ago.  I was not suggesting that only the American Turbo Grafx did not have this problem. The thing is, if you buy an American Turbo Grafx on eBay and it doesn't work with the card, you can easily sell it and buy another one until you find one that works.
15$ is low, and you got lucky.  They typically go for 30-50 in shops, and on eBay typically go for that, or more.  They also cost more to ship and never come with the dust cover.

Quote
This is not the case with the Duo, which is quite expensive.
You can resell a "broken" (read: Doesn't work with flashcard) Duo in a matter of days. You can also easily sell a PCE.  I don't know where you're getting your facts from, but you should stop getting them from there.

I got my boxed duo-r for 60$, by the way.

Quote
When I said the Neo Team flash device was primitive, I meant that it was primitive in comparison to the Everdrive which can support more memory and interchangeable flash cards. The Neo Team flash devices also do not work on all NEC systems. 16 Megabytes of flash memory is incredibly primitive by today's standards. The Everdrive is far superior to the Neo Team PC Engine flash device (and works on all standard Genesis/Megadrives as far as I know). Isn't that why you are all so enthusiastic that one will be released?
Flashcards for 25 year old consoles are primitive by 10 years ago's standards.  What is your point?  NeoFlash can store a healthy amount of games and supports all games released.  So what, it doesn't support multiple memory cards.  It's a FLASHcard.   Use the easy to use USB device and reflash the frigging thing.  I fit like 20 games on it at once.  I can't imagine you really needing to have more than 20 on a card at any given time unless you're playing the first 10 minutes of a game and going OH OK TIME FOR ANOTHER.

Also, who's to say the everdrive for PCE won't have two issues:

1: It will be a huge honkin' board with shit all over it, as opposed to the primitive neoflash's slim form factor that matches a real HuCard and fits nicely in a jewel case with the rest of my collection
2: What if it too has functionality issues due to power consumption?  That would be hilarious.  I hope it does so I can laugh.

Quote
Whether we like it or not, there are less NEC Consoles out there than there are SNES, Genesis, Nintendos and their clones (which are still being made). This means that our beloved PC Engine will not get priority treatment over these other consoles. Again, this is just a reality we have to deal with.  I'm not saying it will never happen, I'm just telling you guys not to get your hopes up and not to hold your breath.
I don't know if you've been paying attention, but the Turbob gets plenty of priority treatment.  There are pretty much just as many current PCE fans as there are Genesis fans.  It's not like we're a frigging Odyssey forum, flailing around about wanting a flashcard with all the blinky light bar programs.

We have more homebrew projects announced/in progress than the Sega, SNES, and NES combined, so neener neener.  \o/

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I didn't state that I knew him. I took his statement of a 2012 release to be an implication that serious development would not take place before 2012.
A whole whopping 26 days.  Sue him! 

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The amount of consoles existing in the world which users would be buying these devices for is quite relevant
 
No it's not, probably.  I'm pretty sure the guy does this for himself.  If 3 people bought one he'd probably be just as thrilled as if 300 bought them. 
 
 
Quote
because not only does the developer have more incentive to make those devices instead of devices for more obscure consoles,
 
FFS, the PCE/TG isn't obscure.  Quit being dumb.  You've already admitted you're doing it, so stop it.
 
 
Quote
but he also has to support those devices that he has already sold. That is WHY the Mega Everdrive is the higher priority.
Supporting the device has little to do with how many have sold. 

You do realize that the target audience of any retro console is not too large, and picking one over the other really doesn't matter?  It's personal preference.  Why are you making up crap about the priorities of someone you don't even know?  He likes Sega more than the other stuff, so he is doing the Sega stuff first.

THAT IS WHY IT HAS PRIORITY.  It's not like he's got a spreadsheet of projected profits and release cycles spanning the next 5 years.  Get a grip.

Quote
He is not all about profit, but profit is a factor. It isn't black or white.
I doubt profit is a factor.  Anyone going into this crap with profit in mind is a dumbass.  People who engineer devices typically aren't dumbasses.

That was fun.
[Fri 19:34]<nectarsis> been wanting to try that one for awhile now Ope
[Fri 19:33]<Opethian> l;ol huge dong

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Necromancer

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Re: Flash carts for the pc engine/turbo
« Reply #44 on: December 06, 2011, 01:35:17 AM »
The Neo Team flash devices also do not work on all NEC systems.

What makes you think that this Everdrive won't have similar problems with undervoltage in the HuCard slot?  I wouldn't be surprised if it isn't even less compatible, as it'll have to power the SD slot and bus in addition to a whole lot more flash memory.
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