Author Topic: What's the best way to start programming?  (Read 1701 times)

soop

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2828
What's the best way to start programming?
« on: February 15, 2012, 04:01:58 AM »
*edit* hang on, just to be clear, I mean coding for the PCE.

I have a rather bad habit of big ideas and very little results, but I've had an idea for a decent shooter in my head for a while.  I think it's too complicated for a beginner*, but I think I might be interested in doing a little coding.

Does anybody have a few links to resources, maybe some stuff that was useful when you first started?

I don't think I'm gonna be able to cope with assembler, but something a bit higher level might be alright

*beginner to PCE, I've coded most of my life in various languages, so it's not like I'm a total newb - but I haven't actually coded a complete game.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2012, 04:05:05 AM by soop »

Arkhan

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 14142
  • Fuck Elmer.
    • Incessant Negativity Software
Re: What's the best way to start programming?
« Reply #1 on: February 15, 2012, 04:07:37 AM »
Step 1 would be to get HuC installed, and try compiling some of the open source stuff on Zeograd.com

Step 2 would be to familiarize yourself with the innerworkings of HuC by reading the docs that come with it.

Past that, basic game design concepts, and good programming practices will be your BFF.

Any game design book would help (2D game programming for teens, for me!) and any decent C reference.

Just check out other peoples stuff to get a handle on whats going on.
[Fri 19:34]<nectarsis> been wanting to try that one for awhile now Ope
[Fri 19:33]<Opethian> l;ol huge dong

I'm a max level Forum Warrior.  I'm immortal.
If you're not ready to defend your claims, don't post em.

soop

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2828
Re: What's the best way to start programming?
« Reply #2 on: February 15, 2012, 04:15:23 AM »
Perfect, cheers Arkhan, I'll get on it

spenoza

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2751
Re: What's the best way to start programming?
« Reply #3 on: February 15, 2012, 06:07:56 AM »
Well, on that note, how hard is it to get into HuC if you have very little programming experience in general? I did a little Pascal WAY back in high school and I did some Java in college. That's it. My thought is that trying to learn HuC would be so painful it wouldn't be worth the effort.
<a href="http://www.pcedaisakusen.net/2/34/103/show-collection.htm" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">My meager PC Engine Collection so far.</a><br><a href="https://www.pcenginefx.com/forums/" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">PC Engine Software Bible</a><br><a href="http://www.racketboy.com/forum/" c

Arkhan

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 14142
  • Fuck Elmer.
    • Incessant Negativity Software
Re: What's the best way to start programming?
« Reply #4 on: February 15, 2012, 07:04:04 AM »
Well, on that note, how hard is it to get into HuC if you have very little programming experience in general? I did a little Pascal WAY back in high school and I did some Java in college. That's it. My thought is that trying to learn HuC would be so painful it wouldn't be worth the effort.

HuC is Small C.

It's like bootleg C.  It's not hard to learn. It's easy.

The catch is as you delve farther and get more advanced, you start to realize that it's a piece of shit.
[Fri 19:34]<nectarsis> been wanting to try that one for awhile now Ope
[Fri 19:33]<Opethian> l;ol huge dong

I'm a max level Forum Warrior.  I'm immortal.
If you're not ready to defend your claims, don't post em.

spenoza

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2751
Re: What's the best way to start programming?
« Reply #5 on: February 15, 2012, 09:47:03 AM »
So why isn't there more effort being put into making it less shit? This is how people are going to get into the scene, and assembly can be quite difficult and daunting, especially for folks who aren't starting young.

Which is to say, a GOOD HuC implementation is probably the best way to get new people into the scene.
<a href="http://www.pcedaisakusen.net/2/34/103/show-collection.htm" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">My meager PC Engine Collection so far.</a><br><a href="https://www.pcenginefx.com/forums/" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">PC Engine Software Bible</a><br><a href="http://www.racketboy.com/forum/" c

Arkhan

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 14142
  • Fuck Elmer.
    • Incessant Negativity Software
Re: What's the best way to start programming?
« Reply #6 on: February 15, 2012, 09:56:45 AM »
So why isn't there more effort being put into making it less shit? This is how people are going to get into the scene, and assembly can be quite difficult and daunting, especially for folks who aren't starting young.
You do know there's a what-needs-fixed thread about HuC? lol

also, the amount of time it would take to fix HuC would remove from the amount of time we could spend writing games.

The assembler isn't bad.  Just the C compiler.

Quote
Which is to say, a GOOD HuC implementation is probably the best way to get new people into the scene.

The best way to get people involved is to provide other tools as well, like Squirrel, with instructions on how to use it.   New recruits aren't going to notice HuC sucking.   New releases and new happenings are how you draw attention and make people want to be a part of it.

a new tool doesn't do shit for anyone if there's nothing showing it off.
[Fri 19:34]<nectarsis> been wanting to try that one for awhile now Ope
[Fri 19:33]<Opethian> l;ol huge dong

I'm a max level Forum Warrior.  I'm immortal.
If you're not ready to defend your claims, don't post em.

spenoza

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2751
Re: What's the best way to start programming?
« Reply #7 on: February 15, 2012, 07:12:30 PM »
Arkhan, I think the scene needs both. It needs existing homebrew to get people interesting and it needs accessible tools so that others can enter the field. This is a chicken and egg conundrum.
<a href="http://www.pcedaisakusen.net/2/34/103/show-collection.htm" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">My meager PC Engine Collection so far.</a><br><a href="https://www.pcenginefx.com/forums/" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">PC Engine Software Bible</a><br><a href="http://www.racketboy.com/forum/" c

soop

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2828
Re: What's the best way to start programming?
« Reply #8 on: February 15, 2012, 10:27:42 PM »
Man...  I wish I'd learned C back in the day.  For some reason I just never liked it, which is crazy since I wanted to get into game programming (then, not now).  Instead I learned 68000 assembler, Blitz Basic, Pascal and crazy scripty stuff like PHP Perl and AWK.
But yeah, I looked at the HuC man pages and it's like everything I want to know ...  Isn't answered.

I think I'd need a tutorial rather than anything else.

Arkhan

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 14142
  • Fuck Elmer.
    • Incessant Negativity Software
Re: What's the best way to start programming?
« Reply #9 on: February 16, 2012, 12:38:53 AM »
Arkhan, I think the scene needs both. It needs existing homebrew to get people interesting and it needs accessible tools so that others can enter the field. This is a chicken and egg conundrum.

You're missing the point, lol.

The problems within HuC won't be noticed until you become advanced a bit and need more out of it.  HuC on the surface is very accessible and very useful.  Newcomers can use HuC just fine, and there are enough open-source'd little examples to show how things work and how to use it. 

New people won't notice or be affected by the problems it has.  The problems will come when people start wanting to f*ck with raster fx, or do really obnoxious games.

At that point though, with a machine like the PCE, it's expected that you get cracking with assembly.  There's already a perfectly fine assembler.

To demonstrate this point further, look at the MSX homebrew scene.  They have yearly competitions and game releases, and there's usually at least one new person.

They're typically just using an assembler and Z80 assembly. 

We already have an easier to access platform than the MSX in that regard.  What the hell more do you really want?
[Fri 19:34]<nectarsis> been wanting to try that one for awhile now Ope
[Fri 19:33]<Opethian> l;ol huge dong

I'm a max level Forum Warrior.  I'm immortal.
If you're not ready to defend your claims, don't post em.

spenoza

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2751
Re: What's the best way to start programming?
« Reply #10 on: February 16, 2012, 06:39:58 AM »
We already have an easier to access platform than the MSX in that regard.  What the hell more do you really want?

I want arrays that don't suck  : )   Arrays are DAMN useful. That's probably my biggest concern.
<a href="http://www.pcedaisakusen.net/2/34/103/show-collection.htm" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">My meager PC Engine Collection so far.</a><br><a href="https://www.pcenginefx.com/forums/" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">PC Engine Software Bible</a><br><a href="http://www.racketboy.com/forum/" c

Arkhan

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 14142
  • Fuck Elmer.
    • Incessant Negativity Software
Re: What's the best way to start programming?
« Reply #11 on: February 16, 2012, 07:06:21 AM »
We already have an easier to access platform than the MSX in that regard.  What the hell more do you really want?

I want arrays that don't suck  : )   Arrays are DAMN useful. That's probably my biggest concern.

you're asking for stuff to give newcomers a leg up.

Newcomers aren't going to notice that arrays suck until they get to assembly.  If they notice it immediately, they aren't new, and should just deal with it.

[Fri 19:34]<nectarsis> been wanting to try that one for awhile now Ope
[Fri 19:33]<Opethian> l;ol huge dong

I'm a max level Forum Warrior.  I'm immortal.
If you're not ready to defend your claims, don't post em.

spenoza

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2751
Re: What's the best way to start programming?
« Reply #12 on: February 16, 2012, 08:08:38 AM »
I don't know about arrays in games, but I used arrays as a beginner in Java all the time. They were crazy useful for all sorts of stuff. But I guess I should commit to doing some stuff with HuC before I bitch about it. Sometimes knowing too much is a barrier as much as a facilitator: ie knowing just enough to be dangerous (to oneself and others).
<a href="http://www.pcedaisakusen.net/2/34/103/show-collection.htm" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">My meager PC Engine Collection so far.</a><br><a href="https://www.pcenginefx.com/forums/" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">PC Engine Software Bible</a><br><a href="http://www.racketboy.com/forum/" c

Arkhan

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 14142
  • Fuck Elmer.
    • Incessant Negativity Software
Re: What's the best way to start programming?
« Reply #13 on: February 16, 2012, 08:36:23 AM »
The arrays work in HuC.  They're just f*cking slow.  On the surface, you won't notice problems.

huc is accessible for anyone.   It just requires ASM skills to get fast games.  but hey, welcome to 8 bit machines. 
[Fri 19:34]<nectarsis> been wanting to try that one for awhile now Ope
[Fri 19:33]<Opethian> l;ol huge dong

I'm a max level Forum Warrior.  I'm immortal.
If you're not ready to defend your claims, don't post em.

touko

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 953
Re: What's the best way to start programming?
« Reply #14 on: February 16, 2012, 08:08:00 PM »
And this f*cking compiler, not allow you to make a program > to 192 ko ..