Pyramid Plunder Public Beta

[KingDrool]

I didn't notice the scrolling after playing it for well over an hour. I rarely paid attention to the map either. You're all morons and pussies.

Arkhan, IMO, you're doing a good job taking feedback and making adjustments based on that feedback. You don't need to agree with everyone's feedback either. I'll stick around in this thread and jerk you off.

[Arkhan]

The obvious point was that you're trying to split the player's attention away from the main action.  I've yet to play a game where I enjoyed such an experience, but to each their own.

Crap.  you probably won't like Atlantean much then.  

People saying they like it doesn't 'prove' anything, nor does it negate that others don't like it (and vice
versa).  Most people think that Deep Blue sucks, so does that 'prove' that you're wrong for enjoying it?

You said you can't prove fun. I think you can!

When the majority of people being asked are on the "do like it" side, and appear to be having fun, it leads me to believe the scrolling is probably not a huge concern and that the game is pretty good.  

There's always going to be the minority that finds some faults and will play a game, label it as "crappy design", and then dismiss it and refuse to play it.  Their loss.

Do you find fault with the scrolling too?  You haven't really said either way yet.  I am tallying up everyones thoughts.  I found one person externally who thinks it's a bit narrow too.  

You've never seen anyone go running towards the scroll side of the screen and run into an enemy?

No, I haven't, actually.  That's why the whole thing was a bit alarming to me.  Then again, everyone I watched playing it seemed to be all into the radar use and liked that aspect of the game.  It allowed them to avoid rape.

This may be a case of a different kind of crowd's reaction.  Most CCAG gamers are Apple ][/C64/Atari gamers, so maybe they're more accustomed to it.

That's why I just want to see the cheapness in action through normal play.  If I try to do it myself, I'm going to end up sort of forcing it to occur, and that isn't going to help me realize the problem.

I can dislike part of a game and still love and enjoy the overall product (see Gotzendiener).  Can't you?

Yeah, that's also why I am doing this.  I'd like to think people aren't going to throw the whole game out and bitch and trash it because of the scrolling.

It's just like what I said about Castlevania.  

I think I'll join Rover in refraining from this circle jerk.  

At least you aren't calling it a technical flaw (read: bug) when it isn't anything of the sort.  

There's not much point in a discussion where I'm labeled as a moron or pussy for not liking one single aspect of the game play.

Who said you're a moron?  I don't think I did.

My point is, since only like, 4 people have raised the concern, maybe those 4 or so people are being a bit wimpy and should give it a better shot.

It'd be like if people complain about all the bullets in blazing lazers or something and that they have to dodge too much.  You'd probably call them a sissy.

Some people are used to immediately being pretty good at games and walking through them.  Sorry to anyone like that who finds themselves dying with this game.  

Also, because we give a shit about all of you equally, we're coming up with ideas to tickle everyones weeners equally.   So allow me to reach into the circle jerk and touch everyone.

So, hows that for taking into account pretty much every goddamn concern you stupid, pussy, moronic queefs came up with?  :3  *hug*

hah, queef.  That's a fun word.

Ghosts need fixed first before we get to the other stuff, which now includes:

Less tedious maps
Scrolling tweaks
less retarded ghosts.

[Black Tiger]

When the majority of people being asked are on the "do like it" side, and appear to be having fun, it leads me to believe the scrolling is probably not a huge concern and that the game is pretty good. 

There's always going to be the minority that finds some faults and will play a game, label it as "crappy design", and then dismiss it and refuse to play it.  Their loss.

Rarely are single aspects an extreme love/hate maker for me. I'm sure that PP will still be lots of fun with the current scroll point. But it might be all the more enjoyable at another position.

[Arkhan]

When the majority of people being asked are on the "do like it" side, and appear to be having fun, it leads me to believe the scrolling is probably not a huge concern and that the game is pretty good. 

There's always going to be the minority that finds some faults and will play a game, label it as "crappy design", and then dismiss it and refuse to play it.  Their loss.

Rarely are single aspects an extreme love/hate maker for me. I'm sure that PP will still be lots of fun with the current scroll point. But it might be all the more enjoyable at another position.

that's why we're at least experimenting to see how it goes.

[TheOldMan]

Ghosts need fixed first before we get to the other stuff, which now includes:

Less tedious maps
Scrolling tweaks
less retarded ghosts.

Don't forget the faster warp (done)
and the pause screen (working on it.)
And ...what was that with the music?...

[Arkhan]

the rest of those were implied already.  I was noting the more prevalent stuff.

but:

Don't forget the faster warp (done)

We still need to make it look less "amateur", maybe. 

And ...what was that with the music?...

What about it?

[ParanoiaDragon]

I'd say with the warp, to make it look better, maybe go to the Bomberman games.  In atleast one of them, when he finishes a level, he kind of gradually disapears line by line IIRC?  Maybe something like that, but obviously a little faster so as not to slow down gameplay.  Or maybe an ice skater twirl like in the Dungeon Explorer's!   Or you could just make him breakdance on his head when he warps.....that actually might be kinda cool!

[Arkhan]

I am all for the ice skater twirl, because I love how stupid that effect looks.  (It was my planned idea for warp animation)

Anything flashy (painty/vanish stuff), wouldn't fit the cartoony theme of the game, imo.

[spenoza]

OK, so, I played a little of the new ISO and noticed a couple things off the bat.

I like the new scrolling margins. It just makes the game feel better somehow. I don't know if it was claustrophobia or what, but I really prefer the feel. For some reason, however, the top scrolling margin is still really narrow, like as in the original release. Kudos on being willing to play with the scroll margins to see how people feel. I really prefer them wider, but you gotta do what you gotta do.

Also, I don't know if this is intended (if this is original Pac-Man or otherwise intended behavior, let me know), but if I grab a power pellet and enemies come out of the spawn point after, they are not munch-able. That I get. Only the enemies that were already out can be nabbed. But if I grab another power pellet before the current one has worn off, they remain immune. Shouldn't getting a second power pellet reset both the timer AND enemy vulnerability?

Edit: Also, I feel like maybe the "Pause" power's timer is a bit on the long side. It buys a little too much safe time, and since it even pauses enemies in the spawn point, it exacerbates the existing problems with enemy behavior (which I understand will eventually be squashed). Have you tweaked the enemy behavior at all? I noticed, at least at first, the enemies were homing in on me and staying nearby. After playing a while they started keeping their distance again and didn't get anywhere near me, but up front at least it seemed they were raring to go, and I really found it a little more exciting, because of the potential danger AND the ease of getting them after a power pellet.

[Arkhan]

OK, so, I played a little of the new ISO and noticed a couple things off the bat.

I like the new scrolling margins. It just makes the game feel better somehow. I don't know if it was claustrophobia or what, but I really prefer the feel. For some reason, however, the top scrolling margin is still really narrow, like as in the original release. Kudos on being willing to play with the scroll margins to see how people feel. I really prefer them wider, but you gotta do what you gotta do.

Just because we disagree and think you're all sissies doesn't mean we won't try it anyways, lol.

If it ends up cheering up 4ish people, and doesn't turn the indifferent or "they're fine!" people to the  "f*ck THIS GAME" side, it's not like it's a big deal.   I'd still disagree and think they should be claustrophobic though.

Also, I don't know if this is intended (if this is original Pac-Man or otherwise intended behavior, let me know), but if I grab a power pellet and enemies come out of the spawn point after, they are not munch-able. That I get. Only the enemies that were already out can be nabbed. But if I grab another power pellet before the current one has worn off, they remain immune. Shouldn't getting a second power pellet reset both the timer AND enemy vulnerability?

That's what Zeta noted, and we haven't fixed yet.

Edit: Also, I feel like maybe the "Pause" power's timer is a bit on the long side. It buys a little too much safe time, and since it even pauses enemies in the spawn point, it exacerbates the existing problems with enemy behavior (which I understand will eventually be squashed). Have you tweaked the enemy behavior at all? I noticed, at least at first, the enemies were homing in on me and staying nearby. After playing a while they started keeping their distance again and didn't get anywhere near me, but up front at least it seemed they were raring to go, and I really found it a little more exciting, because of the potential danger AND the ease of getting them after a power pellet.

The pause timer is debug-tastic.  Expect all power-ups to be tweaked in the final release.  These are just arbitrary values to mess with them.

as for the ghost behavior, it's not going to be tweaked 100% til the bugs with the wall are fixed.  I anticipate them being more aggressive.

[spenoza]

I would poke around at some of the people who thought the original scrolling margins were just fine and see what their opinion of the new build is. Or, include an in game debug option to adjust the scrolling on the fly. That way people can see the different right up front and make their call. Sort of an A/B test.

[Arkhan]

yeah.

like eye glasses

Is it better with 1 *flips* or 2?


edit:
I am too impatient to wait and see what the rest think.

The scrolling regions are the same as they've always been.  We didn't change them.

The latest build should not be any different than the scrolling that was complained about.  

They will be changed, but now I am curious if they really are as bad, cheap, and bullshit as claimed.  

Experiments.

[ParanoiaDragon]

I am all for the ice skater twirl, because I love how stupid that effect looks.  (It was my planned idea for warp animation)

Anything flashy (painty/vanish stuff), wouldn't fit the cartoony theme of the game, imo.

I'm talking about this(2:50), seems like this would work in PP, but then again, maybe not if it's used constantly in a level, as opposed to just the end of a level like in Bomberman

[Arkhan]

Yeah that is kind of what I'd already had in mind.  It's a great cartoon style warp.

[Bonknuts]

I only played a little bit of the game, but I kind of liked the edge scrolling. I liked the claustrophobic feel it added (for this type of game, anyway). But I felt the enemies needed to be more threatening or such. Maybe more of them or aggro area where they pick up speed if you get within that radius. I dunno, I suck at making these kind of games and AI (I tried as a kid on my old Coco 2). Anyway, yeah - the edge scrolling part was good but nothing was threatening in the end result. I didn't play that far in, so maybe it changes?