Easiest Shooter of the Turbosauce?

[Joe Redifer]

I just don't agree that every arcade game ever made is easy because you can feed it quarters forever.

We're not talking about arcade games, we're talking about TurboGrafx games.  Arcade games' sole purpose is to earn quarters.  The continues are justified.  It would be a weak argument to make for a home console game which does not need to earn quarters.  Even home translations of quarter-munchers do not NEED to retain the continues.  That's a ridiculous notion.  Therefore the game itself is not hard, but only as hard as you make it.  I think that if you fire a shot and it misses an enemy, that is cheating.  It's like giving yourself 40 extra kings in chess.  All shots fired should hit enemies without exception.  Otherwise you're not experiencing the full game!

I feel that giving yourself a continue (*cough* especially in a suicide-rank game like Battle Garegga) is akin to giving yourself another king in chess.

But chess is not programmed to give yourself extra kings.  Certain games are programmed with continues.  If games allow you to continue endlessly or allow you to spam bombs, then those games have some shitty design and programming.  It's up to the game to give the challenge, not the player to self-limit or make up their own rules and call it the only way to "experience the full game".  That's absurd.

"Hardcore players" always make me LOL.

[Arkhan]

Joe, winning by attrition defeats the purpose of challenging yourself.

If a game lets you win simply by having a pulse, it's an easy game.  Guerilla War for NES is like this.  You can just die/continue endlessly.

The purpose of arcade games and their home ports is to challenge your reflexes and make you demonstrate some amount of skill to get anywhere.  If you can just hold a fire button down , stand in one place, and let the level scroll on by, continuing when needed, then the game is frigging easy.

The continues-of-neverending-doom are there to hold peoples hands.  Not everyone's good at the game, but everyone should still at least get to see the ending.  That's basically how that works.

The only thing preventing you from winning most arcade games is money.  Rich, pussy players can win all kinds of games.  Then, someone who knows how to really play it comes and makes them look like a chump because it only cost them 50 cents instead of 68$

[Bonknuts]

If you have to continue, then the game isn't easy. If you're spamming bombs and continuing, you aren't even experiencing the full game.

 I agree with this line of thinking. For shmups at least. Continues are for practice. I mean, old school shooters are usually pretty short. You haven't really beat the game until you've mastered it, which the time it takes to get that good negates the short length of the game of a single run IMO. Some old school shooters reward you for the harder difficulty with additional material in the ending sequence. I wish more did that, or at least some recognition by the designers/game.

 That said, Raiden on the PCE isn't as hard as the arcade version - but it's a pretty good challenge. The 6th level boss is such a bitch, that I save all my bombs up until there - to spam it with bombs (used to make a bullet shield, not damage the boss directly). I've read that's common tactic for that boss no matter what version/port of the game. Still feels like cheating though. The thing that bothers me about Raiden is that it sometimes it's a bullet hell shmup (the bosses really) and other times it's not (the regular levels). But the collision box for the ship isn't exactly bullet hell friendly IMO.

[Obfuscate]

Star Parodier. Way too easy to the point of stupid, 20+ guys left and I don't even have to memorize a enemy pattern.

Most shooters 1cc is what I consider "beating" the game but I'll make exceptions for really tough ones like Aero Blasters and Rayxanber 2. I guess it's all in the mind of the gamer and what they want out of the game.

[SamIAm]

I feel that giving yourself a continue (*cough* especially in a suicide-rank game like Battle Garegga) is akin to giving yourself another king in chess.

But chess is not programmed to give yourself extra kings. 

Who says? When I was a wee lad and my dad was teaching me the game, he let me reposition my king after a checkmate. I'd also bet money that somewhere out there is a computer chess program that will allow play even after a checkmate.

It's for practice.

Again, the fact that they often programmed games NOT to save your score or give you a proper ending when you continue is evidence enough for the game being designed primarily around not using continues.

Certain games are programmed with continues.  If games allow you to continue endlessly or allow you to spam bombs, then those games have some shitty design and programming.  It's up to the game to give the challenge, not the player to self-limit or make up their own rules and call it the only way to "experience the full game".  That's absurd.

"Hardcore players" always make me LOL.

Continues are simply a convention of the shmup genre. It's like how enemy patterns in most modern shmups aren't really designed for two players at all, but they still give the option just because that's the way it's always been. It's part of their arcade heritage.

It's true that some games give a bigger wink to using continues that others. Battle Garegga, on the other hand, reveals its true design when you only allow yourself one credit.

At the end of the day, we're all just pressing buttons in front of a screen, so having fun is #1. However, you can miss a lot of depth when you take the easy way out. Another example would be baseball with unlimited strikes. People might enjoy getting more hits, but all the drama and excitement of the full count would be lost.

[Arkhan]

Atari 2600 bowling lets you set a difficulty mode where you can steer the f*ckin ball

Strikes are pretty much hohum at that point.

[turbokon]

I would say Lords for me since I can beat it. Sapphire, I can beat it of course with the continues. I almost beat air zonk on sweety.

[motdelbourt]

I can't think of an easier game than Star Parodier, you could probally walk away and leave a book on the fire button to beat it.

Weird, I got my ass whooped at this game, on some sort of pyramid level IIRC. This was on the Wii version on an HDTV. I blame the lag.

[Joe Redifer]

The thing with Battle Garegga is that once you beat it, you unlock some crazy options which makes the game mega easy.  I don't even think it matters if you continue when you first beat it (can't remember, did it so long ago and my save file is still active).  Now I'm certainly not against extra options being earned once the game is beaten, but I think it should take a little bit more skill to earn them.  

Also, I pretty much agree with what people have said since my last post.

[esteban]

I would add that abusing turbo switches (in some games) is akin to abusing continues. You don't TRULY appreciate some games when you're a lazy slob. For example, IMHO: Arcade Ports should NOT be played with turbo unless this feature was available in the arcade version.

Why? I feel that it betrays the original design of the game. Some games, for example, offer power-ups that increase the frequency of your shot. Other games have a "Hold down button for charged shot" mechanic that totally breaks when you use turbo switches.

I know some folks may not agree with me, and I certainly don't follow this all the time (i.e. if I am frustrated and just learning a game), but I generally follow this rule.

Fundamentally, unless the arcade version of a game offered turbo-fire, PUSHING THE BUTTON SWIFTLY is one of the fundamental skills that shoot-em-up fans should possess. You cannot consider yourself a connoisseur of the genre if you can't obsessively press the fire button when necessary. Monster Lair for example, is best with NO TURBO, because each weapon has its own UNIQUE "frequency"... Missiles travel farther when you hold the button longer, the spinning shield power-up has a VARIABLE frequency (it is fun to slow-down and speed-up the shield, offering regular or double-thick shields). Lots of games (all genres) possess attacks with unique timing issues (Legendary Axe I & II !!)...

These nuances are lost when you abuse Turbo switch.

16-SHOT!

/end of rant

P.S. I apply the "no assisted turbo-fire" rule to most games, in all genres, and most shoot-em-ups (not only arcade ports). That said, there are still plenty of games I'll use turbofire for. I'm not perfect (or completely insane).

Also, I pretty much agree with what people have said since my last post.

Thank goodness .

[nodtveidt]

Why? I feel that it betrays the original design of the game. Some games, for example, offer power-ups that increase the frequency of your shot. Other games have a "Hold down button for charged shot" mechanic that totally breaks when you use turbo switches.

Sidearms comes to mind. The autofire weapon that you can pick up is utterly useless in the TG version, but a godsend in the arcade version.

Easy shooters... hrm. Air Zonk in Sweet mode is pretty easy. Lords Of Thunder in Normal mode is pretty easy too. Fantasy Zone is pretty easy the first time through. Dead Moon isn't the greatest challenge in Normal mode. Blazing Lazers only seems easy at first... get up to the last couple of levels and you might as well start over if you get killed. There's just no way to recoup once you're that far in.

[esteban]

Why? I feel that it betrays the original design of the game. Some games, for example, offer power-ups that increase the frequency of your shot. Other games have a "Hold down button for charged shot" mechanic that totally breaks when you use turbo switches.

Sidearms comes to mind. The autofire weapon that you can pick up is utterly useless in the TG version, but a godsend in the arcade version.

Yes, SideArms is a great example, thank you for mentioning that .

Easy shooters... hrm. Air Zonk in Sweet mode is pretty easy. Lords Of Thunder in Normal mode is pretty easy too. Fantasy Zone is pretty easy the first time through. Dead Moon isn't the greatest challenge in Normal mode. Blazing Lazers only seems easy at first... get up to the last couple of levels and you might as well start over if you get killed. There's just no way to recoup once you're that far in.

No one mentioned Dead Moon yet, but it is easy (it's a decent game).

As for Blazing Lazers, I'm a broken record, but you can totally beat the last stage, even if you begin with nothing but a pea-shooter. The same is true for the checkpoints in Gradius games (initially it looks bleak and hopeless, but these games were designed to give you a chance, a slim chance, but quite possible). I've written this up in other threads...

[Keranu]

As for Blazing Lazers, I'm a broken record, but you can totally beat the last stage, even if you begin with nothing but a pea-shooter.

I didn't believe this until I saw it with my own eyes. It was during a shmup tourney at a past MGC, Blazing Lazers was the last game to go. This one guy who had never played it before beat it his try, struggling at some areas but always managed to regain himself. When he made it to the last level with nothing but the pea shooter, I said there was no way he could beat it, I've tried doing the same myself many times. But by golly he did it! I congratulated him afterwards, I truly didn't believe it was possible!

[Tatsujin]

Lol, that guy must be legend

[nodtveidt]

I stand corrected!