Techno/Disco/Dance chiptunes on the PCE

[spenoza]

So, I was thinking about Streets of Rage today and how Yuzo Koshiro did some great techno-style tracks for the Genny for that series. Were there any PCE games that did techno-inspired chiptunes? I'm not talking about the CD stuff. I'm talking about working within the limits of chiptunes. Anyone know of any?

[Arkhan]

Insanity chiptunes.

der

[Black Tiger]

"Techno" covers a huge range of music, most of which is diffetent than SoR style.

Some OCE games with chiptunes that fall within the realm of techno include : Impossamole, Somer Assault, Aeroblasters stage 2. Champions Forever Boxing has some all-sample beats.

Tomatheous/Bonknuts has at least one very SoR sounding PCE chip tune on his youtube channel (forget which name its under). It may be a different format than WSG/FM/etc, but so is SNES music.

[SignOfZeta]

Yeah, to most Americans, especially crackers from Nebraska or whereever, the term "techno" is a bit broad in definition. It can refer to basically anything that doesn't have an electric six string and isn't classical.

Regardless of what you mean by that though, Aeroblasters stage 2 probably fits the bill. It's one of my favorite PCE tracks.

[Arkhan]

Tomatheous/Bonknuts has at least one very SoR sounding PCE chip tune on his youtube channel (forget which name its under). It may be a different format than WSG/FM/etc, but so is SNES music.

but, IIRC, those aren't real PCE tunes.  They're just tracker tunes diddled up to sound like the PCE.   That doesn't count.  Has to be on the real thing.  Otherwise I could just go sample some PCE sounds, swap out the instruments in any given techno song, and call it a PCE chiptune.

[Black Tiger]

Tomatheous/Bonknuts has at least one very SoR sounding PCE chip tune on his youtube channel (forget which name its under). It may be a different format than WSG/FM/etc, but so is SNES music.

but, IIRC, those aren't real PCE tunes.  They're just tracker tunes diddled up to sound like the PCE.   That doesn't count.  Has to be on the real thing.  Otherwise I could just go sample some PCE sounds, swap out the instruments in any given techno song, and call it a PCE chiptune.

I think that this the track that made me think of SoR when I first heard it-



The SNES pieces together its music with samples and is still considered "chiptunes" by many people. Many NES, Genesis and PCE games use a majority of samples for their music and many more mix in samples. Some people wouldn't count it, but some would. If that track above was from a published game from bitd I don't think that people would strictly say that it can't count. It's just a cool example of how the PCE can do that kind of sound.

The PCE was designed to run samples through any channel, so samples are as much of the PCE's sound as PSG/WSG and I think that music which relies heavily on samples shouldn't be discounted altogether, just as I count SMS PSG and samples as part of the Genesis sound. There are still limits to the samples and shuffling a bunch of clips (which still requires horsepower from the actual hardware) into a song is different than Joe's high quality Genesis sound sample or the PCE Lunar SSS sound sample just playing a single clip.

It'd still be cool to hear something similar to SoR using mostly PSG.



At 1:35 in the following video is a PCE tune using PSG with samples that sounds kinda like SoR-

[Arkhan]

I think that this the track that made me think of SoR when I first heard it-

Oh.  That's not what I was thinking.  This one is on the PCE.

The SNES pieces together its music with samples and is still considered "chiptunes" by many people. Many NES, Genesis and PCE games use a majority of samples for their music and many more mix in samples. Some people wouldn't count it, but some would. If that track above was from a published game from bitd I don't think that people would strictly say that it can't count. It's just a cool example of how the PCE can do that kind of sound.

Tom had other videos of "PCE" tunes that are simply diddled up in a tracker to "sound" like the PCE. 

Those don't count until they are on real hardware as being PCE Chiptunes.  Until then, they're just agnostic chiptunes.  It'd be like if the Amiga composers BITD called their Amiga music SID tunes because they use the SID for all the samples.  It's not the SID, even if they sampled it and it sounds like it.   

The PCE was designed to run samples through any channel, so samples are as much of the PCE's sound as PSG/WSG and I think that music which relies heavily on samples shouldn't be discounted altogether, just as I count SMS PSG and samples as part of the Genesis sound. There are still limits to the samples and shuffling a bunch of clips (which still requires horsepower from the actual hardware) into a song is different than Joe's high quality Genesis sound sample or the PCE Lunar SSS sound sample just playing a single clip.

Yeah, I don't discount it unless it's not playing ON the PCE.  Like I said, I could go diddle shit up in FruityLoops.  It will sound like the PCE, but it's not really. Pretending doesn't count. 

[spenoza]

OK, so, avoiding the whole what is a chiptune thing, since I don't really think that applies here...

I was deliberately vague. I wanted to know what y'all would come up with.

[RegalSin]

Lets get something straight. Nobody ever needed a new system after the NES. The SNES was a collaboration between SONY sound, and Nintendo licensing. Using the power of the Amiga. That is three seperate powers, which makes a point.

Nintendo = toy
Sony = media
Amiga = power

Hudson Soft had made the bee-card series long before as an add-on. Why? Why would they make an add-on adapter? Because it was cheaper to impliment the MSX, then build a whole new system. They were not
SEGA, but they had the ambition, and stayed that way for some time.

I hate using it.......

The first BeeCards were sold in Japan in 1985

?

Hudson Soft wanted to make a game system
sooo badly, so it first decided to use the MSX as a playing feild. Then they would move on to making the PC-engine.

Nintendo had tv-game toys from the 1970's, and even early then that.
With each toy they gained the ability to make a better invention.

[esteban]

OK, so, avoiding the whole what is a chiptune thing, since I don't really think that applies here...

I was deliberately vague. I wanted to know what y'all would come up with.

I need some time to give this serious thought, but I can't think of anything on PCE that is nearly as distinctive as Streets of Rage (Genny) when it comes to techno/dance "proper" (as a genre). SoR really nailed it.

Now, if we broaden our scope (as many have suggested) about what qualifies as techno/disco/dance...

uggghhhh. brain dead.



TANGENT: I always thought that CyberCore had a great soundtrack and many of its tracks make me dance. CyberCore falls under the large umbrella of "catchy pop music" but there are nods to dance and disco.

(Disco choruses! Tell me http://junk.tg-16.com/audio/Cyber_Core/Level_8.mp3
. We just need to add powerful female vocals)http://junk.tg-16.com/audio/Cyber_Core/Title_Screen.mp3
http://junk.tg-16.com/audio/Cyber_Core/Level_1.mp3
http://junk.tg-16.com/audio/Cyber_Core/Level_2.mp3
http://junk.tg-16.com/audio/Cyber_Core/Level_3.mp3
http://junk.tg-16.com/audio/Cyber_Core/Level_4.mp3
http://junk.tg-16.com/audio/Cyber_Core/Level_5.mp3
http://junk.tg-16.com/audio/Cyber_Core/Level_6.mp3
http://junk.tg-16.com/audio/Cyber_Core/Level_7.mp3
http://junk.tg-16.com/audio/Cyber_Core/Level_8.mp3
http://junk.tg-16.com/audio/Cyber_Core/Ending_Credits.mp3



I love the drums (thumpin' bass drum) in a lot of these tunes!

[Bonknuts]

Those don't count until they are on real hardware as being PCE Chiptunes.  Until then, they're just agnostic chiptunes.  It'd be like if the Amiga composers BITD called their Amiga music SID tunes because they use the SID for all the samples.  It's not the SID, even if they sampled it and it sounds like it. 

 

 I agree. They're not real PCE chiptunes until they're running on the real system. But that said, it's nothing like the SID example you gave. I'm not 'sampling' PCE sounds and instruments. Except for the linear VS log volume steps, everything is to PCE spec. The period system, the simple 32byte 5bit waveforms, the 7khz 5bit single frequency long waveforms. Hell, I even use 60hz speed/ticks too. It's nothing like those IT2NSF setups. It's basically famitracker with the HES export function.

[spenoza]

(Disco choruses! Tell me the tune to Level 8 in Cyber Core isn't a disco/dance anthem waiting to be birthed . We just need to add powerful female vocals)

OK, so, I gave level 8 a listen and... well... I didn't like it. 

If that track is dance music, it is dance music from those cheesy black and white movies from the 60's that MST3K makes fun of, like Curse of the Cat Woman.

[Bonknuts]

<- starting at 3:15 in the video. It's laid back SOR 1 style.

 The ending songs to both BM '93 and '94 have that remix dance track (although not SOR style).

[esteban]

(Disco choruses! Tell me the tune to Level 8 in Cyber Core isn't a disco/dance anthem waiting to be birthed . We just need to add powerful female vocals)

OK, so, I gave level 8 a listen and... well... I didn't like it. 

If that track is dance music, it is dance music from those cheesy black and white movies from the 60's that MST3K makes fun of, like Curse of the Cat Woman.

It's a disco anthem in VGM clothing, trust me.

[Arkhan]

I agree. They're not real PCE chiptunes until they're running on the real system. But that said, it's nothing like the SID example you gave. I'm not 'sampling' PCE sounds and instruments. Except for the linear VS log volume steps, everything is to PCE spec. The period system, the simple 32byte 5bit waveforms, the 7khz 5bit single frequency long waveforms. Hell, I even use 60hz speed/ticks too. It's nothing like those IT2NSF setups. It's basically famitracker with the HES export function.

Eh, It's pretty much like the SID example.   What if the mod tune is 3 channels and to "SID" spec. 

people do that shit on other computers too and generate "SID" spec'd music.   What if I use a VST that is emulating the SID?  I could do that on an Amiga, a PC, a Mac, hell, even an MSX. 

It's still using some other program/platform to achieve the sound, so until it runs on the intended platform, it's just playing around and mimicking things, even if you claim it's to exact specs.

This problem is complicated further by the fact that about 6 people would actually understand what "to PCE spec" means, and the rest would just go OH HEY THAT SOUNDS LIKE THE PCE, because it sounds close enough, and may not actually be (like when some people hear SCC music and think it's a PCE song and vice versa). 

I could sit here right now, fiddle out some shit in fruityloops with 32 byte waves, post a youtube of it playing, and say its a PCE chiptune.   I'm fairly certain people would think I'm being serious, even though it's nonsense...   the average listener cares about the sound, not the stuff going on behind the scenes (on the hardware).. so it's our job to give them real stuff.

Hence: Real thing or gtfo.

It's kind of like mockups of games.  It's better to give actual screenies of the game running, than it is to photoshop it.  You can say "oh its to PCE specs", but it's still just some stuff you pasted together in photoshop.  It's teasing people.

At least, this is how I view it all.  I don't like teasing people.  If it isn't blaring out of my turbob, I'm not sharing it yet.