Author Topic: Fake electric guitar in PSG  (Read 1306 times)

fragmare

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Re: Fake electric guitar in PSG
« Reply #30 on: March 27, 2012, 05:17:10 PM »
some of the low tones in the Altered Beast HuCard's music use LFO.  They sound pretty bassy and FM-like for the PCE, imo.  there are only like 4 games that use it.  I forget what the other three are, though.

ccovell

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Re: Fake electric guitar in PSG
« Reply #31 on: March 28, 2012, 12:16:20 AM »
I just checked and Altered Beast's music doesn't use the LFO; only the sound effects do.  I wonder which games actually do use it for music...?

SuperDeadite

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Re: Fake electric guitar in PSG
« Reply #32 on: March 28, 2012, 12:42:06 AM »
It's noisy as hell, but I've always loved the chip Seta used in their old arcade games.
Meta Fox is so metal
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fragmare

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Re: Fake electric guitar in PSG
« Reply #33 on: March 28, 2012, 01:30:36 PM »
I just checked and Altered Beast's music doesn't use the LFO; only the sound effects do.  I wonder which games actually do use it for music...?

Wow, really?  Altered Beast has some pretty nice low tones for straight-up PSG!

ccovell

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Re: Fake electric guitar in PSG
« Reply #34 on: March 28, 2012, 02:13:39 PM »
Yeah, I had a shock when I saw that games I thought used "FM", like the endings to Legendary Axe and Space Harrier, didn't.

If anyone has free time, run lots of your favourite HESs in Mednafen and let us know if the "LFOCnt" reg in the debugger is anything other than 0 during music playback.

nat

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Re: Fake electric guitar in PSG
« Reply #35 on: March 28, 2012, 02:19:10 PM »
Excuse my ignorance, but what the f*ck is "LFO?"

Tatsujin

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Re: Fake electric guitar in PSG
« Reply #36 on: March 28, 2012, 02:36:46 PM »
it's a Low Frequency Oscillator :)
« Last Edit: March 28, 2012, 02:38:30 PM by Tatsujin »
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esteban

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Re: Fake electric guitar in PSG
« Reply #37 on: March 28, 2012, 03:59:50 PM »
It's noisy as hell, but I've always loved the chip Seta used in their old arcade games.
Meta Fox is so metal




That's friggin' fantastic!

Plus, I love the nonsensical English lyrics that the fellow made up! Hilarious!

"Fat, fat yeah! Fat, fat hey!"
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Arkhan

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Re: Fake electric guitar in PSG
« Reply #38 on: March 29, 2012, 01:48:41 AM »
Excuse my ignorance, but what the f*ck is "LFO?"


its a shitty band from the 90s!

but it's also low freq. oscillation, like tats said.

You basically use one waves oscillation, to diddle another wave into doing something else.   A good example of this is that Commodore 64 lead sound everyone is fond of.  You use LFO's rhythmic sweeping pattern to modulate the pulse width of the wave actually doing the lead... so it goes "shweeeeeeeeewooooooooooooooooom shweeeeeeeeewoooooooooooooooom".   
   This shit.   It was done before C64 though, since it's just a synthesizer setting.  Depeche Mode used it a lot too.

You can usually crank the speed up or down to get fast/slow modulation.  So "smooth leads" or "Alien noises", depending on the speed.

I actually intended to show this kind of thing in that Squirrel video I'll be making shortly.
[Fri 19:34]<nectarsis> been wanting to try that one for awhile now Ope
[Fri 19:33]<Opethian> l;ol huge dong

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Tatsujin

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Re: Fake electric guitar in PSG
« Reply #39 on: March 29, 2012, 03:52:00 AM »
its a shitty band from the 90s!

it wasn't really a band, unless we speak of a different LFO. and it was quite cool "electronic" stuff back then. i enjoyed it :)
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Arkhan

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Re: Fake electric guitar in PSG
« Reply #40 on: March 29, 2012, 04:36:26 AM »


f*ckin retarded crap
[Fri 19:34]<nectarsis> been wanting to try that one for awhile now Ope
[Fri 19:33]<Opethian> l;ol huge dong

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Father5&JoshUnion

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Re: Fake electric guitar in PSG
« Reply #41 on: March 29, 2012, 05:54:57 AM »
What I like about Tim Failin is that his music is nice, but the games he worked on all suck. 
Like the shitiest of the shity there is.  Not his fault, but very ironic.

Solstice rocked!

sunteam_paul

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Re: Fake electric guitar in PSG
« Reply #42 on: March 29, 2012, 05:58:03 AM »
Excuse my ignorance, but what the f*ck is "LFO?"


its a shitty band from the 90s!

but it's also low freq. oscillation, like tats said.

You basically use one waves oscillation, to diddle another wave into doing something else.   A good example of this is that Commodore 64 lead sound everyone is fond of.  You use LFO's rhythmic sweeping pattern to modulate the pulse width of the wave actually doing the lead... so it goes "shweeeeeeeeewooooooooooooooooom shweeeeeeeeewoooooooooooooooom".   

   This shit.   It was done before C64 though, since it's just a synthesizer setting.  Depeche Mode used it a lot too.

You can usually crank the speed up or down to get fast/slow modulation.  So "smooth leads" or "Alien noises", depending on the speed.

I actually intended to show this kind of thing in that Squirrel video I'll be making shortly.


Ah, I love that type of pulsating sound. MAKE IT HAPPEN.
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Arkhan

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Re: Fake electric guitar in PSG
« Reply #43 on: March 29, 2012, 07:03:55 AM »
Ah, I love that type of pulsating sound. MAKE IT HAPPEN.


Yeah, it's probably the best part of SIDs.

I am sure I can do something like it with Squirrel once I sit down and screw with things.   Itll happen after thesis, for sure.


This is the first song I heard it in, even before I messed with C64s.

I was a weird little kid, listening to Depeche Mode and the Misfits, lol
[Fri 19:34]<nectarsis> been wanting to try that one for awhile now Ope
[Fri 19:33]<Opethian> l;ol huge dong

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Bonknuts

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Re: Fake electric guitar in PSG
« Reply #44 on: March 29, 2012, 07:24:27 AM »
Excuse my ignorance, but what the f*ck is "LFO?"


The acronym stands for Low Frequency Oscillation, but that doesn't tell you much. The waveform of the oscillation is used to change the characteristic of a sound; pitch/frequency, volume, filter, etc. Low frequency means it's below the human audible hearing range. Usually 60hz or lower. On the PCE, it's mostly commonly used to do pitch bending on a note (back and forth / cycling). Usually on the tail end of a note too (key off):
(Aldynes)

 Should be able to hear it in that video at the tail end of most long notes (it's wobbly in sound). The effect is called vibrato. Tremolo is another effect, but it effects the volume of a sound (not to be confused with a 'trem bar' which is incorrectly named, but more like the tremolo of a pedal effect).

 Anytime you change the pitch in a sound via a cycle, you're modulating the sound. The pitch is based on frequency, so LFO used to do vibrato *is* frequency modulation (FM). But it's not the same type of FM used in synth context. That type of frequency modulation is done at a frequency high into the human audible detection range. It's so fast that it creates additional harmonics and tones in the final sound/output.

 There are two problems with the 'LFO' feature on the PCE. 1) It's not strictly LFO, so I have no idea why it's named that. The frequency modulation has a multiplier setting and can get very high ranges, so it's not limited to LFO. 2) The PCE is a period based frequency generator, not a PHA (phase accumulator like the SID and other 'real' digital synths). So while this special mode for the PCE's first two channels is technically capable of 'FM', it lacks the necessary parameters to generate usable FM harmonic sounds in the note rage, let alone 'bending' any sound. And using it for vibrato is a COMPLETE waste of time. Some other audio chips have hickups when you change the frequency registers while a channel is playing and this type of setting it used to prevent that, but the PCE has doesn't have this problem. So it makes using this mode for vibrato useless and a waste of a channel. 2b) It sucks that the volume register of the 'modulator' doesn't effect the 'brightness' of the modulation (which is how it works in FM synthesis). That also makes it useless for trying to do traditional FM sounds or similar. Oddly enough, the volume is supposed to be silenced on the modulator channel when in this mode, yet the audio from the waveform still leaks through to the DAC, just not at full volume. Ryphecha, Exophase and I did a lot of testing with this mode a couple of years ago. Overall, it's rather useless in audio for music.

 There are a small handful of PCE games that use the mode, and they use it for vibrato too ;-_-

 That said, the 'lfo' mode used at higher frequency would be good for creating certain types of sound effects.