Author Topic: Turbo Duo...What went wrong?  (Read 3502 times)

galam

  • Guest
Turbo Duo...What went wrong?
« on: April 01, 2012, 12:16:01 PM »
Does anybody else think that a big mistake was made when the Duo launched with all the killer apps?
To give away Bonk 1 and 2, GOT, Y's, a chip (in my case Ninja Spirit), and pre-load Bomberman really was a nail in the coffin.
One of those games, (my vote would be GOT) alone could have been packed in, but all those was just crazy.  It's hard to understand what the purpose of the Duo was in the first place.  Same tech as 4 years prior, the brand bleeding cash, and still nothing invested in localizing the games which I think ultimately posed too wide of a gap for the spoon fed "radical" generation of kids.
Also, I HATE the damn coupon book.  Too many turbo boxes hanging around out there with a cut out UPC.   [-X

What else do you think accelerated the Duo's demise?

SignOfZeta

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8497
Re: Turbo Duo...What went wrong?
« Reply #1 on: April 01, 2012, 01:23:15 PM »
The SNES and Genesis cost $200 less. That's pretty much all that mattered.

MrFlutterPie

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 831
Re: Turbo Duo...What went wrong?
« Reply #2 on: April 01, 2012, 01:24:49 PM »
Not to mention they were true 16 bit systems with a large 3rd party support.

nectarsis

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3607
Re: Turbo Duo...What went wrong?
« Reply #3 on: April 01, 2012, 01:26:45 PM »
Not to mention they were true 16 bit systems

People STILL try and throw this around  :roll: #-o ](*,)
« Last Edit: April 01, 2012, 01:39:08 PM by nectarsis »
My Blogger profile with all my blogs of wonderment:<br><a href="http://www.blogger.com/profile/08066967226239965436" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">http://www.blogger.com/profile/08066967226239965436</a>

Tatsujin

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12311
Re: Turbo Duo...What went wrong?
« Reply #4 on: April 01, 2012, 01:36:41 PM »
Not to mention they were true 16 bit systems

People STILL try and throe this around  :roll: #-o ](*,)

ROLF. where's just that uber ultra long thread about that debate again?  :P
www.pcedaisakusen.net
the home of your individual PC Engine collection!!
PCE Games coundown: 690/737 (47 to go or 93.6% clear)
PCE Shmups countdown: 111/111 (all clear!!)
Sega does what Nintendon't, but only NEC does better than both together!^^

galam

  • Guest
Re: Turbo Duo...What went wrong?
« Reply #5 on: April 01, 2012, 01:38:08 PM »
The SNES and Genesis cost $200 less. That's pretty much all that mattered.

Honestly, I bet if Turbo was the ONLY system on the market, they still couldn't get out of their own way.

spenoza

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2751
Re: Turbo Duo...What went wrong?
« Reply #6 on: April 01, 2012, 03:12:23 PM »
Honestly, I bet if Turbo was the ONLY system on the market, they still couldn't get out of their own way.

Methinks you've caught on.
<a href="http://www.pcedaisakusen.net/2/34/103/show-collection.htm" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">My meager PC Engine Collection so far.</a><br><a href="https://www.pcenginefx.com/forums/" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">PC Engine Software Bible</a><br><a href="http://www.racketboy.com/forum/" c

spenoza

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2751
Re: Turbo Duo...What went wrong?
« Reply #7 on: April 01, 2012, 03:15:12 PM »
Not to mention they were true 16 bit systems with a large 3rd party support.

The former means nothing. The latter is important.
<a href="http://www.pcedaisakusen.net/2/34/103/show-collection.htm" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">My meager PC Engine Collection so far.</a><br><a href="https://www.pcenginefx.com/forums/" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">PC Engine Software Bible</a><br><a href="http://www.racketboy.com/forum/" c

motdelbourt

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 167
Re: Turbo Duo...What went wrong?
« Reply #8 on: April 01, 2012, 03:52:08 PM »
I think the Duo was actually a good idea. It eliminated any ambiguity about whether a game would work with whatever system you have, and eliminated the need to buy anything else, at least until the Arcade Card came out. It was made by and for Japan, where the PCE was successful and worth developing for. For America, it's fair to say they needn't have bothered releasing it, but at least they gave it a shot. They could have tried selling the hardware at a loss for a lot cheaper, and make it back on those games, but most of the pack in games were like "Greatest Hits" at that point, so they already made their money on those. With so many pack ins, you do have to wonder if it slowed software sales.

kazekirifx

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 545
Re: Turbo Duo...What went wrong?
« Reply #9 on: April 01, 2012, 07:17:53 PM »
Although it was probably doomed from the beginning, and they did some things wrong, I think TTi also did some things right when releasing the Duo too.

Generally the rebranding was good. Look at the packaging for the Turbo Duo vs. the TG16. The slick grey and black box of the Duo was a huge improvement over those two smiling 80's dudes on the TG16. The design of the system itself looked less like a toy than the TG16 did too. As motdelbourt pointed out, the system being able to play all available software released the confusion to the uninitiated consumer. Having built-in AV and back-up support was obviously good (though another controller port couldn't have hurt either).

The mascot change to Zonk was intended to be more 'badass' looking than Bonk, but I think overall this wasn't such a good idea. Both Sega and Nintendo had highly recognizable mascots by that point, so TTi switching at that point felt a little bit like a cop out. Zonk, a relative of Bonk, looked similar, but the similarity to Bonk made him seem all the more confusing to me. "Is Bonk still the mascot, or is this similar-looking character now replacing him?" As an early teenager at the time, I honestly didn't know what was going on. By changing the mascot, they wasted any small brand recognition they had managed to build up with Bonk up to that point. Bonk wasn't exactly a household name known even to parents like Mario and Sonic was, but he was pretty well recognized by gamers - maybe more so than the hardware was. His character was a unique and recognizable concept that I'd always thought Hudson, NEC, and TTi could have taken more advantage of.

I think I will play devil's advocate and say that giving away so many good games as pack-ins was a GOOD idea. What TTi needed to accomplish more than anything was to expand the user base for their hardware. That's why they included such an enticing array of quality games with the system - to get people to just buy it in the first place. They knew that if they couldn't do that, they were certainly even more doomed than they already were. And, by showing the customers what their new system was really capable of from the beginning they instilled an immediate love for the hardware for almost every one who bought one. Just look how many fans are still here on this board today. By contrast, sadly I'm willing to bet there were more than a few who bought a TG16 with only the pack-in game, thought Keith Courage was lame, and neglected or sold the system to focus on Sega or Nintendo's products instead. Personally, my first experience with the Turbo was renting a TG16 with Keith Courage and Blazing Lasers in 1992(?). I thought both games were pretty ho-hum. I already had an SNES at the time, and was unimpressed by the graphics and sound. I love Blazing Lasers now (and Keith Courage is not bad either), but at the time I was uninitiated into the world of shmups, and wasn't exactly blown away. Anyway, I am fortunate that I still decided to give the system another chance soon after.

And, at least not EVERY killer app was included with the Duo. If the Duo customer liked GoT and Bonk, LoT and Bonk 3 were just around the corner (though in quantities much too low in the case of Bonk 3, of course). Obviously, most Turbo fans can list plenty of other non-pack-in titles that would make their list of killer apps too. TTi was also probably hoping that establishing a user base would also lead to plenty more killer apps being produced for the system in the future. Keep in mind that they still didn't know at the time how many more potential killer apps were in the cards for the system thereafter.

PunkicCyborg

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3714
Re: Turbo Duo...What went wrong?
« Reply #10 on: April 01, 2012, 07:57:29 PM »
Honestly I like it better being the underdog and obscure. It adds to the allure of the console.
(19:28:25) GE0: superdead told me in whisper that his favorite game is mario paint

esteban

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 24063
Re: Turbo Duo...What went wrong?
« Reply #11 on: April 01, 2012, 08:05:18 PM »
I think I will play devil's advocate and say that giving away so many good games as pack-ins was a GOOD idea. What TTi needed to accomplish more than anything was to expand the user base for their hardware. That's why they included such an enticing array of quality games with the system - to get people to just buy it in the first place. They knew that if they couldn't do that, they were certainly even more doomed than they already were. And, by showing the customers what their new system was really capable of from the beginning they instilled an immediate love for the hardware for almost every one who bought one. Just look how many fans are still here on this board today. By contrast, sadly I'm willing to bet there were more than a few who bought a TG16 with only the pack-in game, thought Keith Courage was lame, and neglected or sold the system to focus on Sega or Nintendo's products instead. Personally, my first experience with the Turbo was renting a TG16 with Keith Courage and Blazing Lasers in 1992(?). I thought both games were pretty ho-hum. I already had an SNES at the time, and was unimpressed by the graphics and sound. I love Blazing Lasers now (and Keith Courage is not bad either), but at the time I was uninitiated into the world of shmups, and wasn't exactly blown away. Anyway, I am fortunate that I still decided to give the system another chance soon after.

And, at least not EVERY killer app was included with the Duo. If the Duo customer liked GoT and Bonk, LoT and Bonk 3 were just around the corner (though in quantities much too low in the case of Bonk 3, of course). Obviously, most Turbo fans can list plenty of other non-pack-in titles that would make their list of killer apps too. TTi was also probably hoping that establishing a user base would also lead to plenty more killer apps being produced for the system in the future. Keep in mind that they still didn't know at the time how many more potential killer apps were in the cards for the system thereafter.

Agreed. Including all those great games as a pack-in was brilliant.

  |    | 

NightWolve

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5277
Re: Turbo Duo...What went wrong?
« Reply #12 on: April 01, 2012, 11:55:29 PM »
The SNES and Genesis cost $200 less. That's pretty much all that mattered.

What he said.

To attribute its failure in part to "too many pack-in games" is silly... That was a way to make up for the high price relative to the other systems on the market at the time - it was no detriment, it simply just wasn't appealing enough to get past the $299 price tag... I'll use myself for an example: When TTi was shutting down in '93 and running a closeout/clearance sale, selling whatever TurboDuos were left at $99 bucks, I did what I had to do to raise the money and bought one!! Dying system, yes, but 5 games all at $99 bucks, I'm sold! Changed my life, got hooked on Ys Book I&II, went on to fan translate Ys IV:DOY and the PC versions of the series, etc. ;) But yeah, every time I saw $299 or $399 back when the CD unit came out, I'd cringe... Even as someone who had loyalty to NEC (the result of winning a TurboGrafx-16 with Keith Courage and Bloody Wolf thanks to a Chicago Sun Times contest in 1990), who had done a lot of HuCard renting, who was very interested in seeing what the CD format could do after learning about their CD console system (the first), I still, even with that history, wasn't willing to spend up to $299 - I couldn't... They should've taken the hit on hardware as was suggested.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2012, 07:26:35 PM by NightWolve »

DragonmasterDan

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3508
Re: Turbo Duo...What went wrong?
« Reply #13 on: April 02, 2012, 12:55:26 AM »
The six pack-in games was a repsonse to Sega who had priced the original add-on Sega CD at 299.99 and included six pack-in games (A 4 in 1 disc featuring Columns, Revenge of Shinobi, Golden Axe and Streets of Rage, Sol Feace and Sherlock Holmes Consulting Detective). I don't think it hurt the Duo at all, if anything it was a nice incentive for people who didn't previously own NEC hardware to pick it up.

Added in edit: As far as what went wrong, the system came out at a time when video games in the United States were still largely regarded as children's toys. And at 300.00 the Duo was triple the price of a SNES or Genesis.  The platform had very little domestic third party support, and by 1992 was limited in distribution under TTI compared to when it was run by NEC. It had become relegated to a niche, and there wasn't a large enough audience to keep it afloat in the US.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2012, 12:59:12 AM by DragonmasterDan »
--DragonmasterDan

Black Tiger

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11242
Re: Turbo Duo...What went wrong?
« Reply #14 on: April 02, 2012, 01:07:15 AM »
Does anybody else think that a big mistake was made when the Duo launched with all the killer apps?
To give away Bonk 1 and 2, GOT, Ys, a chip (in my case Ninja Spirit), and pre-load Bomberman really was a nail in the coffin.
One of those games, (my vote would be GOT) alone could have been packed in, but all those was just crazy.  It's hard to understand what the purpose of the Duo was in the first place.  Same tech as 4 years prior, the brand bleeding cash, and still nothing invested in localizing the games which I think ultimately posed too wide of a gap for the spoon fed "radical" generation of kids.
Also, I HATE the damn coupon book.  Too many turbo boxes hanging around out there with a cut out UPC.   [-X

What else do you think accelerated the Duo's demise?

So are you suggesting that the pack-ins caused the Duo to fly off the shelves and the only problem was a lack of software sales in comparison to the record hardware sales, because there was nothing worth buying after the pack-ins?

But if the packed-in software was as great as you make it out to be, then wouldn't it make people interested in Lords of Thunder, Ys III, Bonk 3, Bomberman '93 and if DE was included,  -Dungeon Explorer II?

If the coupons created a nuisance for today's uber collectors, that's fine by me. I never found that it affected the gameplay of the games and I can't see how it discouraged game/hardware sales.



Not to mention they were true 16 bit systems with a large 3rd party support.

Wouldn't their inferior graphics, sound and gameplay make them look that much worse in comparison then?
http://www.superpcenginegrafx.net/forum

Active and drama free PC Engine forum