Author Topic: Turbo Duo...What went wrong?  (Read 3514 times)

spenoza

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2751
Re: Turbo Duo...What went wrong?
« Reply #75 on: April 05, 2012, 08:59:24 AM »
All of those games are more than 2 years after the platform launched. Remember, the Famicom came out in 83, the earliest game mentioned Punch Out, came out in 87. The use of mappers didn't really start until then. To the US, yes that was two years later, but four years into the Japanese life of the platform.

I did specify NES and not Famicom, since we're talking about the TurboDuo largely in the US context, and this IS in the TG-16 forum and not the PCE forum.
<a href="http://www.pcedaisakusen.net/2/34/103/show-collection.htm" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">My meager PC Engine Collection so far.</a><br><a href="https://www.pcenginefx.com/forums/" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">PC Engine Software Bible</a><br><a href="http://www.racketboy.com/forum/" c

kazekirifx

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 545
Re: Turbo Duo...What went wrong?
« Reply #76 on: April 05, 2012, 02:54:10 PM »
and we should totally split PC Engine from TG-16 on wikipedia.

No we shouldn't. I understand that each system has its own separate history in each country it was marketed, but Genesis doesn't have a separate page from Mega Drive. NES doesn't have a separate page from Famicom. Why should TG-16 be any different?

SignOfZeta

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8497
Re: Turbo Duo...What went wrong?
« Reply #77 on: April 05, 2012, 07:14:54 PM »
and we should totally split PC Engine from TG-16 on wikipedia.

No we shouldn't. I understand that each system has its own separate history in each country it was marketed, but Genesis doesn't have a separate page from Mega Drive. NES doesn't have a separate page from Famicom. Why should TG-16 be any different?

I agree. That would be a terrible idea.

Regarding some things I've said...I have to apologize.

$300 was not too much money for a successful system based on five year old hardware. The Duo's library is every bit as modern looking as the SNES and Genesis to the average man. Even the games written in 1988 look nothing like FC games despite them being written at the same time and by the same people who made most of their money writing FC games. Even the PCE ports of FC games look nothing like FC games. The TG-16 didn't have a NES-esque controller. The games' ROM sizes are just as large as SNES/MD stuff most of the time. Anyone who didn't buy this system was either an idiot or a SNERD, probably both. What TTI needed to do was spend 50 million on advertising to educate the masses.  People should have known that the system would eventually be proven to be capable of non-flicker-based transparencies by a home brew coder exploring an undocumented feature 15 years after the system was dead (f*cking DUH!). The only reason why the people bought Genesis/SNES was because of the ads, obviously. All the games look terrible and are full of unfair cheesy tricks. Nobody actually has fun with them. I only said all those things before because I hate the PCE to death. All 4151 of my posts are about how much the PCE is a piece of shit. Also, the 3DO f*cking owns.

Or, more logically, the system did not appear, in the eyes of the average gamer, to be worth $300, even if the average gamer had $300 to spend, which they probably didn't.

I was in my late teens when the 16-bit era was in full swing. I bought the Genesis, the Duo, and the SNES, in that order. I loved all three systems although the Genesis (Sega's most popular system, but, IMO, absolutely their worst) is very much last place with the SNES and PCE taking about equal time during their normal lifespan. These days the PCE gets the most play. I couldn't afford Neo Geo until recently when the MVS market reached full depreciation. I've been posting here for seven years and before that did time on the Turbo Mailing list.

If you are mentally capable of grasping the fact that someone can love SFC as much as PCE then you can probably also understand this: The PCE is one of the greatest systems ever, possibly THE greatest, but when it comes to the TG-16 gaining mass market success, NEC/TTI was dead f*cked. This doesn't mean there was anything wrong with the system, it was just never going to happen. For the same reason that more people watched Phantom Menace than Solaris, more people bought Madden on Genesis than Lords of Thunder. ITS OKAY THIS WAY. PCE isn't the prom king, he's the poet. He's not Def Leopard, he's the Dead Kennedy's. PCE doesn't own a home, he lives in a squat in Manchester in 1977. PCE never combs his hair, but he didn't start getting fat when he turned 20 either. PCE is awesome, not despite these things, but BECAUSE of these things.

If you can't understand these concepts then...you are doomed to a frustrating time trying to rewrite a history where the Duo had everything going for it but just got somehow magically screwed by amorphous player haters.

NightWolve

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5277
Re: Turbo Duo...What went wrong?
« Reply #78 on: April 05, 2012, 09:00:24 PM »
And Zeta delivers another entertaining, yet informative post! Bravo! I do wonder what other goodies I've missed by you over the years I wasn't around.

Tatsujin

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12311
Re: Turbo Duo...What went wrong?
« Reply #79 on: April 05, 2012, 10:31:17 PM »
[ Example: most PCE shooters are very fun, most NES shooters are zero fun, yet there really isn't much separating them, fundamentally speaking.


www.pcedaisakusen.net
the home of your individual PC Engine collection!!
PCE Games coundown: 690/737 (47 to go or 93.6% clear)
PCE Shmups countdown: 111/111 (all clear!!)
Sega does what Nintendon't, but only NEC does better than both together!^^

KingDrool

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1990
Re: Turbo Duo...What went wrong?
« Reply #80 on: April 06, 2012, 03:01:14 AM »
@Zeta:

*slowclap*
Games I Need: Bonk 3 (HuCard), Legend of Hero Tonma, Magical Chase, Soldier Blade, Super Air Zonk.

Got one to sell? PM me!

Tatsujin

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12311
Re: Turbo Duo...What went wrong?
« Reply #81 on: April 06, 2012, 02:48:39 PM »
www.pcedaisakusen.net
the home of your individual PC Engine collection!!
PCE Games coundown: 690/737 (47 to go or 93.6% clear)
PCE Shmups countdown: 111/111 (all clear!!)
Sega does what Nintendon't, but only NEC does better than both together!^^

Arkhan

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 14142
  • Fuck Elmer.
    • Incessant Negativity Software
Re: Turbo Duo...What went wrong?
« Reply #82 on: April 06, 2012, 03:47:17 PM »
Im not really sure how to explain it but I think the whole "ohh it used a memory mapper" thing is kind of pointless.


The really OMG WOW ones (MMC5, aka CV3) were not really used heavily, and the other ones (MMC1-3) are so commonly used that it isn't worth mentioning.  It's not "extra hardware" in the sense of anything grand.  It's memory management.  Whoopdeedick.


The important extra addon stuff were things like the Na106 and the VRC2.

and we didn't even get them here, so whoop-de-doooooo.

Ever play Contra for Famicom?  It's got snow. 

We didn't get any of the sweet shit here. 





« Last Edit: April 06, 2012, 04:06:59 PM by Arkhan »
[Fri 19:34]<nectarsis> been wanting to try that one for awhile now Ope
[Fri 19:33]<Opethian> l;ol huge dong

I'm a max level Forum Warrior.  I'm immortal.
If you're not ready to defend your claims, don't post em.

SignOfZeta

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8497
Re: Turbo Duo...What went wrong?
« Reply #83 on: April 06, 2012, 04:14:29 PM »
Im not really sure how to explain it but I think the whole "ohh it used a memory mapper" thing is kind of pointless.

Totally. I mean, how hypothetical and nerdy can an argument get? What defines a system are the games that actually exist.

These days I actually prefer the pre-MMC games though. Donkey Kong 3 has no flicker. I can't even tell WTF is going on in Mighty Final Fight.





« Last Edit: April 06, 2012, 06:09:43 PM by SignOfZeta »

thesteve

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2952
Re: Turbo Duo...What went wrong?
« Reply #84 on: April 06, 2012, 04:33:30 PM »
one of the first things i noticed about my TG16 bitd was with all the sprites on screen in R-Type it didnt slow or flicker

SignOfZeta

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8497
Re: Turbo Duo...What went wrong?
« Reply #85 on: April 06, 2012, 06:00:47 PM »
Yeah, that's my favorite part about the PCE. It is really low on flicker.

Tatsujin

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12311
Re: Turbo Duo...What went wrong?
« Reply #86 on: April 06, 2012, 06:21:37 PM »
..and rich in lots of sprites and bullets and colors and action and speed and dynamics and all what's needed for some superior 16bit shoot'em up play fun.
www.pcedaisakusen.net
the home of your individual PC Engine collection!!
PCE Games coundown: 690/737 (47 to go or 93.6% clear)
PCE Shmups countdown: 111/111 (all clear!!)
Sega does what Nintendon't, but only NEC does better than both together!^^

thesteve

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2952
Re: Turbo Duo...What went wrong?
« Reply #87 on: April 06, 2012, 07:22:36 PM »
yep, its better then SMS for shmups.
and the SMS beat NES hands down

spenoza

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2751
Re: Turbo Duo...What went wrong?
« Reply #88 on: April 08, 2012, 07:05:06 AM »
Im not really sure how to explain it but I think the whole "ohh it used a memory mapper" thing is kind of pointless... It's not "extra hardware" in the sense of anything grand.  It's memory management.  Whoopdeedick... The important extra addon stuff were things like the Na106 and the VRC2.

Not entirely correct. Here is a quote from Wikipedia about the MMC 1-3:

Quote
Most licensed games used either the MMC1 or the MMC3, which could swap graphics data for animated tiles, diagonal scrolling, and had a built-in interrupt counter for split screen effects

Sure, it did memory mapping, but there were other chips that also did that. The MMCs also allowed for improved video effects and such that were difficult or impossible with the stock NES hardware. They weren't massive hardware expansions like the SuperFX chip on the SNES or the MMC5 on the NES, but they did improve system capabilities beyond simply being memory mappers. I consider those hardware expansions. Super Mario Bros. 3, for example, could not have been made as it was without MMC3, and not just for the memory mapping.

You are correct, though. We didn't get some of the best ones here, because the best mappers also improved sound quality with additional sound hardware. The NES lacked the audio passthrough on the cartridge slot, so there was no way to make them work here without a system revision.

This makes me think of something, though. Does the TG-16 have a scan line timer? Can it do the split screen tile thing like SMB3?
<a href="http://www.pcedaisakusen.net/2/34/103/show-collection.htm" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">My meager PC Engine Collection so far.</a><br><a href="https://www.pcenginefx.com/forums/" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">PC Engine Software Bible</a><br><a href="http://www.racketboy.com/forum/" c

Black Tiger

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11242
Re: Turbo Duo...What went wrong?
« Reply #89 on: April 08, 2012, 07:37:31 AM »
Quote
People should have known that the system would eventually be proven to be capable of non-flicker-based transparencies by a home brew coder exploring an undocumented feature 15 years after the system was dead (f*cking DUH!)

You should know now since examples have been given to more than once, that many published PCE games from bitd feature non-flicker transparency effects.
http://www.superpcenginegrafx.net/forum

Active and drama free PC Engine forum