Ys I and II

[nat]

While I'd hardly consider myself a "newcomer" (owned a Turbo and been on the scene for 22 years, although maybe you weren't referring to me), I think a lot of it has to do with style. It was a different era in the late 80s/early 90s. In-your-face and electronic synth-based music was still really popular. Music took a more upfront role in media, and not just video games. You see the same sort of differences when comparing TV shows of that era with stuff that came later. As time has gone on, music in visual media has moved from playing an integral role to one of glorified ambient noise. It's actually a major peeve of mine.

On your second point, I'd argue that a greater percentage of Turbo games have amazing soundtracks than just a "small portion." In fact, for me it seems like 2 out of every 3 games (CD or cart) Turbo games has at least really good music, if not amazing.

[BigusSchmuck]

Ys I and II is what got me to get a Duo. Enough said. I will say though, I did like the boss music better in Ys IV, but thats only cause it sounded a lot like Ywenie Malsteen's far beyond the sun. Makes you wonder if he played a part in some of the music that was created in that game...

[kazekirifx]

While I'd hardly consider myself a "newcomer" (owned a Turbo and been on the scene for 22 years, although maybe you weren't referring to me)

Was referring to soop, and I didn't necessarily mean newcomer to the Turbo, but at least newcomer to Ys I and II.

On your second point, I'd argue that a greater percentage of Turbo games have amazing soundtracks than just a "small portion." In fact, for me it seems like 2 out of every 3 games (CD or cart) Turbo games has at least really good music, if not amazing.

I guess it depends where your cutoff point for 'amazing' is. I consider Ys and GoT calibur amazing. Cotton and Super Air Zonk are still marginally amazing. Games by Telenet like Valis and Cosmic Fantasy are average for the Turbo. I can name some truly bad ones on PCE too though, like Astralius and Road Spirits. Those were a couple games I was duped into buying back in the 90's. They sound like below average midi module music from Amiga or X68k. Doesn't deserve to be recorded on a CD.

Ys I and II is what got me to get a Duo. Enough said. I will say though, I did like the boss music better in Ys IV, but thats only cause it sounded a lot like Ywenie Malsteen's far beyond the sun. Makes you wonder if he played a part in some of the music that was created in that game...

I think the song served as inspiration, or Falcom ripped it off, depending on your perspective.

[vestcoat]

Technically, it's two games not one. They just glued them together and removed your ability to JUST play the second one for the TG-16/PCE release.

Here's my (blasphemous) thoughts on Ys. I didn't play these games until 2006 or 2007 because I wasn't interested in RPGs as a kid... even into adulthood. It wasn't really until the last 7-8 years I even gave most RPGs a chance. Anyway, after 17 years of hype I was a little let down. I often wonder if the large number of people who list Ys I & II in their top 10 is attributed to the people that played it back in 1990 and have those epic memories ingrained in their heads, or if I'm just missing something.

At its core, the Ys series really isn't all that special or different from anything else. Ys I and II's biggest claim to fame was voice acting in an era where voice acting on a console video game was unheard of. By the time I got around to these games, voice acting was old news (decades old) so that particular novelty was lost on me. Strip away the voice acting, and what do you have? In the case of Ys I at least, an above average action RPG with great music. And the music really is great; in my opinion, this is by far the series' greatest asset.

The Solomon Shrine section in Ys II, on the other hand, is just inane. That part brought the whole experience to a screeching halt for me. Not only is the design of the Shrine very poor, it's also poorly drawn. It's often times difficult to tell where you are able to go and the whole thing just comes off as sloppy. This might not necessarily be a dealbreaker, but I remember the Shrine taking up a significant portion of the game. How about the rest of Ys II? To be honest, I don't even remember, but I'm sure the music was nice.

If it sounds like I'm trying to rag on these games, I'm really not. I had plenty of fun playing through them, with a few minor exceptions, although it's true I found part I to be the more enjoyable of the first two. If we're looking at all four entries, I'd say I had the best time with III, for all the slack that people give it. Zeta once pointed out that I/II get hyped so much it'd be almost impossible NOT to be disappointed on some level. The opposite could be said of III, and maybe he's right, although I do have a tendency to like when developers take a series and do something a bit different with it (Super Mario Bros. 2, Zelda II, Ys III, etc). I do remember liking the music in III better than any of the others, also.

Either way, Ys I and II is something you probably should own if you have a TG-CD (or PCE). Shit, it's been six years, I should probably go back and play these things again and see if my initial impressions still hold up.

Next time you play it, just stop for a second and think of Dragon Warrior.  That's the secret to Ys epic-ness.  

By the time I finally got Ys 1-2, I had already beaten Ys SMS, Ys 3 SNES, played Need for Speed on 3DO, and purchased a N64, but I still loved it.

Ys 1-2 is a nine-on-a-scale-of-ten game with a few technical bells and whistles that put it over the edge and blew people away.  The problem is that it will forever be a c.1989-1990 release at its core.   When people try to think back twenty years and judge games, they seem to make generalizations and equate games over a span of several years; in Ys' case, maybe '90-92.  This is a relatively small difference, but technology advanced drastically in those years and Ys ain't no FFIV.  Furthermore, cutting-edge technical flair (CD music, voice acting, FMV, early polygons, etc.) is always the first thing to turn sour with age. Too many gamers hear Ys hype and imagine some mythical TURBO DUO game that scored a perfect 10 (!) in EGM.  This leads them to expect some sort of Lords of Thunder cream in their pants until they realize they're playing a glorified version of Hydlide (albeit an awesome one) and they get frickin' pissed off.  If they were to shift gears and envision a game that scored a 10 compared to contemporaries like Dragon Warrior, I think they would be more appreciative.

[BigusSchmuck]

Next time you play it, just stop for a second and think of Dragon Warrior.
[/quote]
Minus the hours of grinding of course and annoying slimes. Then again, the Dragon Quest series is another breed of JRPG crack which I shall not go into details in this thread.

[/quote]
playing a glorified version of Hydlide (albeit an awesome one) and they get frickin' pissed off.
[/quote]
Hey Hydlide rules, especially when you crank up the Indiana Jonish soundtrack to the original! ^^
But yeah, YS books 1 and 2 is one of those games you must own for the Duo. I just wish we saw a arcade card remake, instead we got Ys 1&2 Chronicles for the PSP and other platforms.
*sigh*

[kazekirifx]

Why play a circa 1989-90 game in the first place if you're not prepared to enjoy it on a 1989-90 level? The music still holds up pretty well, and the graphics look great if you're true classic gamer like me who loves 80's and 90's pixel art more than modern 3D graphics, and can appreciate each platform and time period for its own distinct character within its historical context. It's like a fine wine! 

I respect someone who dislikes it because they're not into this sort of action RPG, but don't go comparing it to games that came out later and say, "I don't see what's so great about Ys I and II." When I play it, I am magically transported back to 1989, while simultaneously being magically transported to the land of Ys.

[nat]

Why play a circa 1989-90 game in the first place if you're not prepared to enjoy it on a 1989-90 level?

Seriously?

I play 16-bit games because for me, they are the pinnacle of 2D gaming. This stretched into the 32-bit era a little bit, but by then the focus had mostly shifted to 3D. For me, 2D > 3D. I find (most) 8-bit games really hard to stomach anymore. They are really surprisingly primitive compared to what came later. Much more so than 2D 16-bit games are compared to 2D 32-bit games. 16-bit & 32-bit 2D games have aged incredibly well since there really is not a lot more you can do with 2D gaming that wasn't done during that era.

On the other hand, I don't play 16-bit games because I pretend in my mind it's 1990 again and I'm magically transporting myself back into the past. I play them because they represent the pinnacle of 2D gaming and I have tons of fun with them.

The music still holds up pretty well, and the graphics look great if you're true classic gamer like me who loves 80's and 90's pixel art more than modern 3D graphics, and can appreciate each platform and time period for its own distinct character within its historical context. It's like a fine wine!  

If we're talking about 2D 16-bit games in general, I agree with this for the most part. If we're talking about Ys I & II specifically, yeah the music is great, but the graphics? The overhead stuff is passable, but I'd be delusional to try to suggest they're even in the ballpark of "excellent" (not counting the cinemas). This isn't REALLY consequential though as long as the game is good, and Ys I/II would certainly fall into this category.

I respect someone who dislikes it because they're not into this sort of action RPG, but don't go comparing it to games that came out later and say, "I don't see what's so great about Ys I and II." When I play it, I am magically transported back to 1989, while simultaneously being magically transported to the land of Ys.

Personally, I don't believe in magic, so when I played these games it was 2006 not 1989/90. When one of the newcomers plays these games for the first time, it'll be 2012, not 1989. They'll compare it to other games they've played (or not) and make their own decision. My impression was the games are good, with some flaws, and the music is excellent. My experience with them wasn't epic, but I'm sure they made a hell of a bang back in 1990.

[Keranu]

I first played Ys in 2002 and my initial impressions were that it seemed intriguing, but not particularly groundbreaking. By the time I finished Book II, all I wanted to do was experience the adventure over and over again . And I still do every Thanksgiving to this day!

[DesmondThe3rd]

Ohya, it's still my favourite Turbo CD game and it even gives other RPG's like Chrono Trigger and Earthbound a run for their money.

[kazekirifx]

nat, I think that our opinions are almost identical. It's mostly just our wording that differs. We both prefer 16-bit style pixel graphics over modern 3D graphics, that's the important thing. Both of us can enjoy a circa 1989-90 game even more than a game made in 2012.

Maybe I was going a bit too far when I said I have to return to a 1989-90 mindset to enjoy it. I think if I were to articulate it a bit better, I would say that I can still remember the late 80's and early 90's pretty well, and what I liked about games at the time, and can still appreciate the graphics in these games as much as I did at the original time of their release. However, unfortunately, this is not true for all gamers. Some prefer 32-bit 2D graphics or even 3D graphics.

The one part I still can't agree with is that it's fair to compare Ys I and II graphically to games that were released years later. Can you find any overhead view games from 1989 that look much better than Ys I and II? I can't think of any. The graphics were the best available at the time, and we can't blame them for not having the best graphic technology of 1992 in 1989. That just wouldn't be fair.

[nat]

The one part I still can't agree with is that it's fair to compare Ys I and II graphically to games that were released years later. Can you find any overhead view games from 1989 that look much better than Ys I and II? I can't think of any. The graphics were the best available at the time, and we can't blame them for not having the best graphic technology of 1992 in 1989. That just wouldn't be fair.

I disagree that the visuals in Ys were the best available at the time (except for maybe the cinemas). I personally think Dungeon Explorer looks downright fantastic, and it was made around the same time, if not earlier. Actually, I've always thought DE is a perfect example of some of the best 16-bit graphics. The graphics are very dark, especially compared to Ys, but this is by design. DE lacks the nice cinemas that Ys sports, so I'm just comparing overhead vs. overhead. The shading and detail is much better in my eyes in DE than it is in Ys. That's the only game that really comes to mind as I tend to associate games with eras vs. specific years, generally speaking. If we were to expand the comparison to include non-overhead non-RPGs, I could think of quite a few more that look substantially better. (I'm only talking in 16-bit terms here, since Ys is obviously going to easily defeat any NES 8-bit stuff.)

Don't get me wrong, the graphical quality in Ys doesn't affect my enjoyment of the game at all (save for the sloppy Solomon Shrine section), I only pointed it out since the visuals are decidedly middle of the road generally speaking, save for the cinemas, 1989 release or not. I should also point out that I don't sit and compare games to other games in my head as I play them and think, "Wow, this certainly looks like shit compared to Sonic the Hedgehog!" It's more along the lines of "Wow, this game looks REALLY dated." (in the case of FEOE: Ziria) or "Wow, this game looks really nice. It's certainly held up well!" (in the case of something like DE). When I played Ys I and II back in '06, it had neither effect on me.

My real point in all this is that for people coming in to the game fresh in this day and age, for all the hype that has been built up over the years, they're likely not to be wowed. It has nothing to do with the visuals specifically, or the story, or any one aspect. It's the overall package.

[kazekirifx]

All right nat, we'll just have to disagree on that point then. We can both agree it's an excellent title overall, and yes, I agree that newcomers of the game are not unlikely to be a bit disappointed after all the hype they've likely heard.

[esteban]

This has been one of the better discussions of the merits/flaws of Ys I & II. To build on the points Kaze and Nat were focusing on: although I can see both sides, my own position is closer to kaze's.

That said, even when I played Ys I & II back in the day (within a year of its release), I felt that the overhead graphics could have been more impressive. That is is not to say I can't appreciate them (I most certainly do), but I was not particularly "wowwwed" the way I was with other games of the time. Does Ys I & II exhibit some nice graphical flourishes in some of the overhead segments? Sure, it does. But, as folks have already stated, Ys I & II is filled with wonderful concepts that can't help but charm you: I have always loved, after spending far too much time in the sewers, how you continue your quest by draining the sewer canals and wandering through the familiar , yet unfamiliar, maze of canals. Even better is when Adol transforms into a monster to gain valuable information (now he can speak Monster!) and avoid battling would-be enemies. Think about it: you are roleplaying as Adol, who, in turn, is role-playing as a monster!). Ingenious! Plus, I haven't even mentioned how powerful some moment's in the game truly are (I adore how somber the bell tower is, when you finally reach the top, and the bleak, red-stained clouds howl past in fury as the bell chimes one final, fatal time).

And, sorry, but this garbage about the music from Ys III as superior to Ys I & II's soundtrack is ludicrous . Ys III has a wonderful assembly of memorable tunes, but Ys I & II still outclasses it.  

  Cook finds the lack of respect for Ys I & II to be motherf*ckingly ludicrous.  

[nat]

And, sorry, but this garbage about the music from Ys III as superior to Ys I & II's soundtrack is ludicrous . Ys III has a wonderful assembly of memorable tunes, but Ys I & II still outclasses it. 

This coming from the same guy that worships Dragon Spirit, so....

[NightWolve]

I think I slightly like the Ys III soundtrack best, but I don't wanna have to choose one way or another. I love the music from all of 'em. I would say though that Ys IV isn't as awesome as the first three, but there are some greats on there that I used to listen to frequently! Maybe I haven't played enough games in my time, but I never again encountered a game or game series that offered such fantastic, memorable music than Ys! Never encountered anything as comparable or memorable...

esteban: You write rather well for your quick drive-by posts. Stuff like this: "(I adore how somber the bell tower is, when you finally reach the top, and the bleak, red-stained clouds howl past in fury as the bell chimes one final, fatal time)". Hahah! Having a lot of fun there!

The other reason I posted was cause I saw Dragon Spirit mentioned! I forgot all about that little gem! It was one of my favorites, played it on my Express for a time! I remember it had great music for a chip game, too! I wouldn't blame esteban for worshiping it.