Turbo Fest (VGS) 2012

[NightWolve]

EDIT (11/3/2012): tggodfrey apologized and I've long since cooled off since this happened, so bygones be bygones.

Obviously this guy really pissed me off and this response got enormously longer than I ever thought that it would, so fair warning and my apologies in advance! Gargantuan (not often one gets to use that word, is it?) rant coming... Man, why is it that my most voluminous writing is inspired by someone or something that pisses me off?   I genuinely hate that...

Becuase of how bad brake line failures can get, make sure an actual mechanic does the work.  Sorry to go off topic here.

I have had brake line issues come into the shop that started simple and ended up in complete replacement and nothing more than an agonizing headache.  Do not take it to someone who claims to knwo how to fix cars unless they were an actual mechanic.
FWIW: Leaking calipers can be rebuilt (parts are only Appx 15.00) but I guess parts replacers dont know how anymore.  Compression unions are just future failures, do it right or dont do it.

Woah, woah, sir, excuse me, I'm sorry, but we're gonna have to get into this now! You portrayed me as an incompetent and someone that would risk his life so you're gonna get a response and not in a PM! First off, I worked as an assistant to a freelance auto mechanic for several years that runs a business out of his garage (has so for 15+ years). Freelance mechanics that do that are very popular in Chicago and that's where I got my mechanic experience from, even did 2 successful transmission changes with him. I did plenty of brake work with him for his customers, and for my neighbors independently (which he considered "stealing" his customers), in addition to many other things... It is from that where I grew to love working on cars for a time!

You dismissed me and made assumptions without probing for any further info on my background and experience, attacking my knowledge based on possible courses of action that I volunteered. Cutting a section of pipe and using compression unions with a newly cut pipe on a long run of old pipe underneath the car is a temporary fix - It's done when one feels that the situation is so bad that starting a full replacement of that line will cause the gas lines to start leaking as well from the movement that'll occur, resulting in the need for all lines (pipes, same thing) having to be replaced, something that I wouldn't volunteer to do on the spot wherever his car is located - it's more grunt work than I would want, so I would just get the lines re-pressurized and tell him to take it to a shop for full replacement this way, at least saving him money on the tow truck cost! Tow truck is maybe ~$100-$150, so for that work I'd ask for say $50 bucks. So, your "do it right or don't it" is not applicable here - I had every intention of making it clear to him that it would be a temporary fix and that he'd need a full line replacement, but at least now he'd be able to drive the car to a mechanic shop, rather than call a tow truck to get it there!!

My car had to have a full line replacement which I eventually did myself (the 3 gas-related lines as well, 18 years of being rusted to shit at that point!). But before that, I had a rupture because I wasn't looking at the road and I slammed the brakes hard almost crashing, I stopped in time, but I caused a rupture. I made it back home by driving slow, pumping the brakes and using the mechanical parking brake. The freelance mechanic I mentioned helped me fix it with the compression union solution because I needed the car back in service right away. But he made it VERY clear to me that that was a temporary measure and given the massive rust and corrosion that all my lines had, I should get the full replacement done the sooner the better. The clerk at the Auto Parts store where I bought the parts from ALSO made it VERY clear to me that if the unions are not properly and fully tightened, the line will pop again at that point and that they're not as strong in general obviously! So, I already knew this and that's exactly the same conversation I would've had with Keranu if the problem was underneath the car with the long line runs. I haven't looked at it, so I don't know, neither do I know the age of the car to rule that out on the spot. But, I can still safely get him to a shop without a tow truck if this is the issue!

You essentially seized upon my mentioning of the compression union deal to paint me as dangerous, or far too risky and to bolster your point that only "real" mechanics can do this, you further seized upon my possible solution of a full caliper replacement by attempting to show that I'm someone who doesn't know how to just buy a caliper kit, pop the caliper piston out and replace the seal/bushing (which any grease monkey with some experience could do!). So, let's expand on why it's better to replace the whole caliper (my solution) versus keeping the old caliper and just replacing the seal/bushing (your solution), shall we? The new caliper solution has the following advantages: 1) Factory fresh expensive caliper grease fully spread out on new, non-rusted slider bolts, 2) New, non-rusted, non-seized bleeder valve, so guaranteed not to have it break on you when it's time to bleed the air out, 3) new seal/bushing obviously, 4) Lifetime warranty for as long as you own the car from the Auto Parts store, meaning, you get full, free replacement if you have a problem with it ever again! (I don't get that from "real" mechanics like you, do I?), 5) Overall security in one of the most important systems of the vehicle, the one that is able to stop it!

You listed the approximate price for a caliper repair kit at $15 (new seals/bushing), well, the calipers for my car at Autozone cost $35 with core deduction, meaning, you bring the old one in for recycling and you won't have to pay an extra $20 bucks, otherwise it's $55 bucks. So, for $35 bucks, you get peace of mind for all the ~5 reasons I listed above (for an extra $20 bucks in this case relative to the $15 you cited), and since I'm freelancing it, what I charge in labor would still be far cheaper than what YOU would charge at $75-$100/hr at an auto-repair shop! He would still pay far more with "real" mechanics who would only resort to changing the caliper piston seal than he would with me getting him a whole new caliper with all the advantages listed above. You listed the $15 bucks as a cheaper solution, but NOT when it comes to the gouging rates that you "real" mechanics would charge for the labor of changing the seal and then bleeding all 4 wheels!! What about the slider bolts seizing if you're gonna leave an 8+ year caliper in place (do you folks in principle refresh the caliper grease or only if there was a seizure described to you by the customer?) and what about a rusted bleeder valve seizing and breaking when you try to bleed it?? Nah, sorry, and the cheaper solution in your case is still more expensive than when it comes to freelance mechanics which is why they are so popular in the city of Chicago. It's not hard to beat your gouging rates for labor and parts combined by 40%-70% (and we're buying the parts at retail prices, don't have your wholesale price advantage)!! Thus, you folks have to resort to smearing freelance mechanics as dangerous, risky, not properly trained, not "real" mechanics, given how much business they've cost you!!

The last brake job that I did was a case of the rear brake shoes having been fully worn out that the piston popped out of the cylinder enough past the seal (happened to me too before I knew what was what) on the passenger side, so naturally he lost all brake pressure - it wasn't a pipe rupture... Another possibility in Keranu's case and very easy to handle, although somewhat time consuming if you wanna put quality work into it. The customer had purchased the brake shoes so I went to work on it, but I lost a lot of time trying to make the shoes that he bought fit the situation; they just didn't match the originals. Finally, I determined he was given the wrong ones so I had to drive to Autozone, buy the right ones and also buy a spring set - I always like to use new springs if available. The Autozone ones matched the originals perfectly, so problem solved, they were only $20 and the spring set $10. When I was done, with the large size brake fluid bottle I bought, I fully flushed/bled the system. Can't remember if I bought 2 bottles for him cause given how old the car was, I'll fully flush the old, dirty fluid out since usually nobody else ever has. Anyway, I charged him $60 for the labor which was a pretty damn good deal I regretted, but last I checked, he hasn't crashed and burned as a result of my obviously, risky, untrustworthy workmanship. Neither has the other neighbor whose brakes I did, nor any of the customers of the freelance mechanic that I used to work with. At least, not that I ever heard from through him.

Let's talk about what "real" mechanics like you have done for me in the past, shall we? You revealed you're an auto mechanic after all and you smeared me as risky, dangerous, lacking in proper knowledge to do the job competently, so I'll return the favor as far as smearing/generalizing you and your profession goes! We have a Turbo Gouger thread on this board, and you know what? I'm gonna put you right in there! THAT'S RIGHT! That's what I'm gonna do! EVERY last one of you "real" mechanics has ripped me off my entire life and I didn't get the "security" for that extra dough either in all cases! There is not a single case that I can cite of genuine customer satisfaction. I can drive around a 5-10 mile radius and get a difference of up to $100 bucks in price quotes for a repair job, not very comforting when prices can vary to such an extent...

In 2004, both of my front calipers were replaced for $270 bucks at a nearby repair shop! I told them something was wrong, noisy or flaky. I assume the aholes threw in new brake pads, but I'm not so sure, but let's say that they did. I'm sure they were the economy brand (retail $20) and not the silver ($35) or ceramic gold brand (retail $50) - nothing in the receipt tells me anything specific. Alright, so 4-5 years later, while I was leaving from the parking lot of one of my favorite diners, I started the car and tried to back up, but I couldn't move... I press on the gas down a little more, I keep trying, still stuck and next thing I know smoke is coming out of the front driver's side wheel and a terrible stank! What do you know, the caliper seized on the slider bolts and I can't break free!!! So what do you think, guy, that strike you as normal after a 5 year old caliper installed by "real" mechanics like you would seize up on me ? What if I was in the middle of the street in traffic and not in a parking lot? Think those aholes relied on the manufacturer to grease the caliber bolts and didn't bother or what ?? What exactly did I get for that $270 besides being gouged ?

I noticed that when I first purchased calipers from Autozone for only $35 each (with core deduction of bringing in the old one), they'd sell you the caliper grease in little separate packets, meaning the manufacturer relied on the installer to do it. But, years later, when I used my warranty and got free replacements, the caliper grease was properly in place and spread around better than I could ever do it, meaning, the manufacturer decided since there are ahole mechanics who don't bother, THEY probably should do it and just factor in the price of the unit accordingly since caliper grease is one of the more expensive types of greases given its high heat resistance. So $70 bucks for new calipers, $50 for the best pads on the market, that's $120 compared to the $270 you "real" mechanics charged me, a savings of $150 and that's at retail prices; if I bought the parts over the Internet, I could do even better, but the lifetime warranty and ease of just driving to any Autozone store is useful!

How about another? Care to listen? So, my alternator comes to the end of its life, the car is acting funny, I think I lose power steering even then, but luckily there was a nearby repair shop as I'm leaving from my old job going home. They tell me my alternator is dead and needs to be replaced. The bill? $230 bucks. Alright I say, fine! I kinda have little choice since the battery is thus being drained and it wasn't fun driving it the way that I was. I can't exactly shop around so I am at their mercy, aren't I? A few years later, it died again and it nowhere near reached its supposed 40,000 mile lifespan because I've only put 37,000 miles on the car and the original lasted 3+ years since owning it. But this time, the manner in which it "died" was, shall we say, a little different. I start the car, it shuts off immediately with the engine shaking. I try again, same thing. Pop the hood, I can smell something in the alternator area. I keep starting the car, it's meeting resistance and I realize I have to press the gas to keep the engine from dying; suddenly I see a whole bunch of sparks flying from the alternator as it's breaking free!! Looks like it seized and caused a drag/resistance on the pulley hence why the engine would shut off in idle as you're starting it. I could've cut the belt alternatively. So now the car starts and I can drive, but no power steering. Luckily I was a block from home so I drive back slowly and I make it. Next day I ride my bike over to Advance Auto Parts and ask for an alternator. They have one in stock for my car. How much ? $100 bucks! That's right, $100... This then reminds me of how I paid $230 having done business with, you know, "real" mechanics at a repair shop... $130 in labor, wow! And yet, a monkey with some level of competence could do it. It's two bolts and plugging in the wiring cable... Adjusting for proper tension of the belt of course, but yeah...

One more for the road? How about paying $200 for an upgrade to the newer r134a refrigerant for my A/C when all he did is add an adapter (for $2-3 bucks) and a can of r134a (with Leak Seal) and years later finding out that I could've bought a r134a upgrade pack of 3 cans with dispenser and upgrade adapter for $30 bucks at Walmart and done it all myself??? Like I said, every last one of ya that I've done business with! "Real" Auto Mechanics are in the same gouging class as lawyers in my book, relying on peoples' ignorance and at times desperation to get as much money out of 'em as possible! Your "expertise", pretending like many of the jobs that you do requires the skill of an open heart surgeon, hasn't necessarily guaranteed safety and security either. In fact, you're lazy in doing the bare minimum to get the car functional again and get to the next customer! None of 'em ever told me how bad my brake and gas lines were underneath the car for all the times I'd bring it in for something else - they'd only address what I would bring to their attention at the time! Anyway, I'm not filling this page anymore. I have plenty more where this came from, though!!

Bottom line, sir, I wouldn't have offered to help him if I wasn't confident in my workmanship and would never put somebody's life at risk as you implied and as "real" professional mechanics like you have done for me in the past! Anyway, mission accomplished on your part, right? With the paranoia that you put forward as professionals like to do about freelancers in general, he certainly isn't gonna take me up on the offer now and I don't think I'm interested anymore either given the context of you turning my friendly gesture to help him into a "NOOOO, DOOON'T DDDDUUUUOOOO IT!!! DON'T DUO IT! DON'T YOU BELIEVE HIM!!..."

[Necromancer]

To head off what might get real ugly, allow me to play wannabemoderator for a bit:

Too many words.

1)  There's no way for Terry to know your qualifications and he didn't accuse you of not knowing what you're doing; he just said to make sure it's done by someone qualified for the job.
2)  There was nothing in your post that implied that the brake line fix was meant to be temporary.  How was Terry to know that you'd explain it to Keranu?
3)  You're the one making broad accusations based on assumptions - not all professional mechanics are crooks, and I'm pretty sure Terry has a day job that doesn't involve wrenching cars.

[roflmao]

Wow.  Holy cow.  Where'd that come from!? 

[BlueBMW]

To head off what might get real ugly, allow me to play wannabemoderator for a bit:

Too many words.

1)  There's no way for Terry to know your qualifications and he didn't accuse you of not knowing what you're doing; he just said to make sure it's done by someone qualified for the job.
2)  There was nothing in your post that implied that the brake line fix was meant to be temporary.  How was Terry to know that you'd explain it to Keranu?
3)  You're the one making broad accusations based on assumptions - not all professional mechanics are crooks, and I'm pretty sure Terry has a day job that doesn't involve wrenching cars.

Thank you Necro.  I too can see this getting really ugly, REALLY fast.  Ive met Terry, and hes a great guy.  O dont think he would intentionally insult someone he didnt know.  So I suspect there is just some misunderstanding and misread intents here.

That said, I am a professional Technician (we're not mechanics anymore!) and while I try and do my job honestly and well, there are those among my colleages that are not so moral in their work   Though O call) them out every chance I get!  (Even if the person happens to be my manager!

[hizaygizirlz]

It won't get out of hand no one is gonna read that.

[jeffhlewis]

Oh c'mon, it's funny

[majors]

no one is gonna read that.

Truth.

[ElSeven]

yikes, this thread got awkward!


..anyway, just wanted to mention that it was cool meeting up with everyone at TurboFest this year and getting to try all those rare games!  (srsly, a big thank you to everyone whom supplied the SuperGrafx and various games).

To all those around the Chicago area, we gotta organize another meetup 'cuz this was a blast.  It would be a shame to have to wait until TurboFest2013!

  and Keranu, if you don't come next year... I'm comin' over to yer house and reclaiming the PC-FX I sold you!   

...but you can keep the 3DO  :-"

[chany60126]

yikes, this thread got awkward!


..anyway, just wanted to mention that it was cool meeting up with everyone at TurboFest this year and getting to try all those rare games!  (srsly, a big thank you to everyone whom supplied the SuperGrafx and various games).

To all those around the Chicago area, we gotta organize another meetup 'cuz this was a blast.  It would be a shame to have to wait until TurboFest2013!

   and Keranu, if you don't come next year... I'm comin' over to yer house and reclaiming the PC-FX I sold you!    

...but you can keep the 3DO  :-"

Glad you had fun ElSeven. We had a ton of great stuff this year. It was definitely cool to have the entire Super Grafx library available for play. Thanks to everyone who helped out!!

We are definitely thinking about doing another meet up this year, possibly during the fall. There are so many of us that live in Chicagoland, why not? We'll keep you posted.

[Flare65]

We are definitely thinking about doing another meet up this year, possibly during the fall. There are so many of us that live in Chicagoland, why not? We'll keep you posted.
[/quote]

Agreed!

[Mathius]

As long as Galloping Ghost is involved I am in! 

Seriously, whatever you guys decide is fine. 

[turbokon]

Chicago is definitely much closer to me.

[BlueBMW]

<sigh>  Are you guys going to make me drive up there... AGAIN....  I've got two vacation days left this year that arent allotted...  Let me know when you guys decide to make stuff happen and I'lll see if I can make the 550 mile drive again

[Mathius]

<sigh>  Are you guys going to make me drive up there... AGAIN....  I've got two vacation days left this year that arent allotted...  Let me know when you guys decide to make stuff happen and I'lll see if I can make the 550 mile drive again

Beamer, you have no choice. You're coming.

[hizaygizirlz]

If this meet up does happen and we wanted to play turbo we could try to rent the other room at GG i don't think it would be 2 much more I believe it is only $5 extra if they have something going on.