Religion

[esteban]

I'm, Christian, but I really don't think I've shown it lately. This past August I went to church for the first time in 2 years.

When people ask what denomination I am, I'm not the kind of person who would use the words "Baptist", "Episcopalian", "Presbyterian", "Methodist", "Catholic", etc., I mean what difference does it make? You're worshipping the same God but some have their own way of doing it. Then again, all that goes back to the Reformation ages many centuries ago.

I know, but folks take their different interpretations of the Bible very seriously!  

.... Considering it was the next day, I was worried sick all day and couldn't sleep. Then the next day, everytime I heard a noise outside like a airplane flying over the house I ran to the window. Hey I was that "Sunday School" kid that was so naive to believe anything.

Well, the nuns who taught Cathetcism scared us about being sinners and going to hell. We'd go to confession every other week -- I'd get so nervous during the actuall event that I  had to plan out in advance what I was going to confess to the priest. I had "stage fright" big time because they made it seem so serious and overwhelming.

What I really don't like is when they use that spiritual stuff to make a quick buck. I mean come on, those "church" informercials that come on at 2AM with that Miracle Spring water, & Prayer Cloth?
Sprinkle this water on yourself, say a few words and the next day you see a million dollars on your doorstep?

Agreed. I honestly can't believe this stuff is still on the air, because it means that it is profitable, and if its profitable, there must be tons of poor souls out there who don't know any  better. Sad.

[esteban]

I just don't get athiesm, I mean even if I wasn't partial to Christianity I would still believe in some sort of higher being.

Well, there are many different types of "atheisms"... I think many folks, like myself, subscribe to some sort of existential-atheism (popularized by Sartre a few decades ago). Basically, I could never say with absolute, scientific certainty that there is no god / higher being / spiritual afterlife / reincarnation / etc. All of those things might very well exist. Let's assume they do -- in fact, I believe that all of these things might possibly exist.

BUT here's the twist, and this is a point that many folks, even many atheists themselves, don't fully explain or fully grasp:

Atheism is living your life AS IF there is no higher, spiritual realm. This is actually a huge point. It means that atheists don't have to waste their time  wondering "is there a god?" It doesn't matter if there is a god. It doesn't matter if I'll be re-incarnated.

Why? Because we have to live our lives as best we can now, as mortals, on earth. Hopefully, most folks will live ethical, moral lives (but nothing is preventing you from doing otherwise). I take the time to say this because many folks equate atheism with "lack of morality". Hahahahahahaha. That's the funniest thing I encounter. Ethics, morality and justice exist outside of religion (they are abstract concepts, period, nothing inherently religious about them), although you'll find that many folks are confused and think that ethics & morality are inseperable from religion / spirituality.

Personally, I believe I have a duty to live an ethical, politically progressive, active life. Human rights, animal rights, worker's rights, immigrant's rights, anti-exploitation, etc. ... you get the picture. My whole moral compass is based on these principles, which are human creations. They are abstract -- and because they are abstract, they actually DO FEEL kind of "spiritual", but by this I mean that I feel that these concepts are so important that they transcend the importance of my life. They are something that people die for. Something that will effect future generations  when I'm long dead and forgotten.

So, in a funny way, I do feel that there is "something greater than me" (and it gives my life meaning, for sure) ... it is the closest I get to the "spiritual" part of my existence, but it has absolutely nothing to do with god, religion, spirituality, etc.

I'm not perfect, by any means, but I try "put my money where my mouth is" and follow my beliefs. It often creates problems (i.e. When I go out to eat with my friends, 9 times out of 10 the only thing I can get on the menu is the salad. Except in friggin' goddam North Carolina, where they put bacon and bacon grease on EVERYTHING, including the salads! Bless them! I ended up eating an early dinner ... I still had dinner w/ friends, but I nursed a soda or a tea while they ate

PET PEEVE: Religious cliques. If there is a "heaven", then I truly doubt that God will manage it like a country club or a college fraternity and say: "Sorry, members only!"
"You led an exemplarly life, but you never professed your faith to me. In fact, you never even inquired about joining!  It's a shame, really, since you'd otherwise have been a poster-boy; a positive role-model for the community. Anyway, I'm sorry, but this security guard is going to escort you off the premises now."
If heaven is run like a country club, I'd be happier in hell. You can quote me on that one

I mean the belief that over billions of years, with odds in the billions to one, that single celled organisms evolved into our perfectly ballanced and infinitely complex eco system is WAY more ridiculous than simply believing that some being beyond our comprehension created it all.  I'm not saying that you have to believe in the Bible's version, but its just crazy to me that so many educated people can believe in such a far fetched idea.

I don't give any credence to "intelligent design" theory, myself. I think it's also called "divine creation" but this term might refer to a bunch of different things.  

Also, and I'm not doing this to antagonize you, but I honestly can't believe that "intelligent design" and "creationism" are part of any school's scientific curriculum. I feel that we've taken a huge step backwards.

But, to end things on a postive note, here's something that you will love GUTS: When my grandma gave my brother here old car, she left some of her cassettes in the glove compartment. So, one day while my brother is stuck in traffic, he pops in a tape. The band is called GLAD, they are a christian born-again band, i think, and they have an AWESOME song with lyrics like this:

"I heard it on the news today, we were once monkeys swinging from trees. I read in a book today, were were swinging from the trees."

The real lyrics are much better, I'll have to see if I can find them.

UPDATE: Oh crap, it must have been a different band. Here's the album I was thinking of:
http://www.artistopia.com/Buy-Music/Album.asp?CDid=B00000DPJ0&ArtistName=Glad&AlbumName=Romans
But the track list doesn't seem to have any silly songs on it. Hmmmmm... I wish I could remember the name of the band.

[GUTS]

Yeah I see what you're saying, I think I remember everyone arguing over the whole "ethics do/do not exist outside of religion" thing on the turbo board.  Didn't that end with everybody all pissed off and nemo comparing you to caligula or something? Haha, good times!

Also, and I'm not doing this to antagonize you, but I honestly can't believe that "intelligent design" and "creationism" are part of any school's scientific curriculum. I feel that we've taken a huge step backwards.

That's ok, I totally respect your opinion on it.  BUT evolution is still just a theory, so I just think there should be some balance in what is taught since in the end both creationism and evolution are just theories.

[Keranu]

Evolution could be a quite possible theory, but it seems like schools and stuff are trying to say this is what really happened when in fact, we can't exactly prove this either, like how we can't quite prove a god exists. I could never believe in something like Scientology because when it all comes down to what creates what, there has to be one and one only, some kind of god that created something which expanded more and more. When I am ready to convert, I will dedicate myself to believing Allah is god and the only god with Muhammad being his messenger.

[Kaminari]

No offense to anyone, but when I hear about Intelligent Design being taught in schools and gaining solid political grounds in the States, it gives me the creeps and I feel damn lucky to live in my country. Evolutionism is a scientific theory; creationism is nothing but a blind act of faith. It's just impossible to ignore the countless palaeontological evidences that organic creatures (let alone humans) are the product of millions of years of natural evolution.

Creationism was imagined by people who were so afraid to exist by mistake that they decided God must have had a plan for them (read: the Universe and Life had no purpose but to ultimately lead to humanity). What a pretentious pile of monkey snot! Those people obviously had no idea how big the Universe is, and what a humongous waste of material that would be if the Universe had been created for humanity alone.

Try thinking for a second about Life from a spiritually rational perspective. Have you ever considered the possibility that God maybe created the Universe and the elements of Life by mistake, but He let it evolve to see what would come out of it, to give it and its potential organic offspring a fair chance without favouring any of them? Imagine then what God thinks when He hears humans bragging about how much "special" and "unique" they are in the Grand Scheme of Things (and failing miserably to prove it when their primary leisure is to slaughter each others)? Give the Great Maker some slack...

Believing in both God and evolutionism is certainly not contradictory, I'd even go to say it's very healthy for the mind. It gives humans a sense of humility instead of arrogance. But to be honest, I don't really care about all this crap. I'm a Taoist. The Oracle is my goddess and Neo her prophet.

PS: Qur'an is a good read. I also suggest the Bhagavad Gita and my personal favorite, the Tao Te Ching.

[mamonohunter]

The christian religion have been around me all my life but I am a atheist. I love christmas for example but I never think about what it was supposed to be about, Im only in it for Santa, christmasgifts and the other traditional things. Just like I think that buddhism is cool because of the shaolinmonks. I dont know if I ever can be taking a religion serious and thats a pity.

[esteban]

Yeah I see what you're saying, I think I remember everyone arguing over the whole "ethics do/do not exist outside of religion" thing on the turbo board.  Didn't that end with everybody all pissed off and nemo comparing you to caligula or something? Haha, good times!

Oh yes! That was crazy. At first I thought Nemo was totally joking, but then it became apparent that he was truly disgusted with certain stances I took. Hahahahaha. That was a blast. But I felt bad for Nemo, and I felt bad that I purposely antagonized folks instead of being polite. I've been buying some items from Nemo since then and it seems we are kool now, and not simply because I'm the only who will buy his old Gameboy and Sega CD FMV titles he's trying to unload.  Nemo's gotta know I love him, I've told him countless times

Back on topic: If you ever get a chance to see any of Luis Bunuel's films, do it! I've promoted Bunuel ad nauseam elsewhere so I won't go into a rant now. BUT:

He made many films that are relevant to our discussion. One of his best films is Nazarin (accent on the "i"). It's the "life of Jesus" transposed to a new context, and it just friggin' rules because Bunuel is painfully cruel, but realistic with many issues. He's got a wicked sense of humor (his surrealist roots, I think). Ultimately, I still root for the protagonist in this film, even though Bunuel pokes fun at his idealism. Thankfully, Bunuel is much more crtitical of the Church (organized religion) in his films. I think he actually digs Jesus (who I think kicks ass).

If you want a more trashy / trippy film, then go for Simon of the Desert. It's not  as masterful as Nazarin, though. Still, quite entertaining.

But Viridiana is a much better choice. Again, an excellent exploration of "morality", the Church, and hyprocrisy. Masterful.

Warning: these films are not going to be everyone's cup of tea. If you're not into religion, there are plenty of other films of his to check out: Diary of a Chambermaid, El Bruto, Los Olvidados (Steve's TOP PICK for the year), etc.

/ end rant

[GUTS]

I'll have to see if any of those are up on any torrent sites, I usually enjoy odd movies like that.  I only have a blockbuster/hollywood video close to me so I seriously doubt they have any for rent, haha.  All the little mom & pop places are here closed down years ago, it's a shame because I used to be able to rent the most obsucre movies at a couple of them.  Thank god for bittorrent!

[Keranu]

Old video stores are the greatest. We have tons of them up here in the Chicago subburbs and I hear they are a lot cheaper than other video stores in the country. The typical rent here is two older releases for $1. Some have  a really great collection of 80's movies, cheese and all, but one of my favorite video stores has been selling a lot of them off or getting rid of them .

[esteban]

I'll have to see if any of those are up on any torrent sites, I usually enjoy odd movies like that.  I only have a blockbuster/hollywood video close to me so I seriously doubt they have any for rent, haha.  All the little mom & pop places are here closed down years ago, it's a shame because I used to be able to rent the most obsucre movies at a couple of them.  Thank god for bittorrent!

You know, there's a famous short film Bunuel did with Salvador Dali -- it's called "Un Chien Andalou", it's super-famous (or should I say infamous) surrealist film. One of the first, and still one of the best.

It's rather short, and it is well known, so bittorrent might have it. "Belle de Jour" is probably Bunuel's most famous films... I think Scorcese (sp?) re-released it here in the states like 10 years ago, so that's another one that might be availabe. While Belle de Jour is good, I really don't consider it Bunuel's best (this puts me at odds with most film critics).

Many of the films in my first post are hard to come by... they were only released on video here in the states, and usually by smaller distributors. But if someone took the time to transfer a VHS to digital format, that would rule! Definitely tell me if you find anything.

I'd recommend LOS OLVIDADOS as a your first film. My family and friends like that one, even when they hate his other stuff.

Bunuel rules because he did "trashy" films with style, and he did "artsy fartsy" films absurdly, with biting humor.

OH, and here's one you've got to see:

AGUIRRE, Wrath of God -- if you like Klaus Kinski, this is a must-see. If you don't know who Kinski is, this is a must see. Werner Herzog, who directed this film, is #2 on my list of favorite directors. GUTS, I know you, I KNOW YOU WILL LOVE THIS FILM. I know it. You can probably find it at Blockbuster if you're lucky.

/rant

[Michael Helgeson]

Im a Pioneerist,and my god plays 12 inch and 8 inch platters in CAV and CLV.

[GUTS]

Whoa there's actually a torrent site with that Wrath of God movie up, hopefully it has subtitles cause it looks like it's in another language.  Sweet!

[esteban]

Whoa there's actually a torrent site with that Wrath of God movie up, hopefully it has subtitles cause it looks like it's in another language.  Sweet!

Yeah, it's in german. Don't worry, even if you had to watch it without subtitles, you'd watch it to the end -- it's not a dialogue-heavy film by any means. In fact, I  don't think you "watch" this film... you "experience" this film. You will love it

And while the film is brutally awesome from the first scene, I love the way the film closes ...

[Ninja Spirit]

Want a movie about Revelation?

Watch "Years of the Beast".

That movie scared the hell out of me seriously! We watched that during VBS one summer and I had a hard time sleeping after watching that.

http://www.christianmovies.com/store/popup_image.php?pID=185

[DragonmasterDan]

I'm a little late on this thread but the whole Intelligent Design thing quite frankly bothers me as well. We can prove Evolution, can we prove the exact steps every living creature has taken to get to where it is today? No. Does that give any creedence at all to teaching Intelligent Design, NO. It's totally based on theory and faith. Something which obviously does not belong in the classroom.