Author Topic: Religion  (Read 7123 times)

nodtveidt

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Re: Religion
« Reply #135 on: October 19, 2007, 03:10:55 PM »
I find any religious texts about "modesty" or anything referring to the human body or sexuality to be complete hogwash. All of that is a human construct, though I'm not quite sure how it came to be since recorded history is rather sparse on the subject. We are born naked, and exist for only one purpose: to reproduce. That's it. Anything else is superficial nonsense tacked on by human ego. Furthermore, many religions attempt very hard to suppress normal human instinct, especially in regards to sexuality. Sexuality and religion generally don't mix in a normal, natural way, unless you subscribe to something like Levayism, where casual sex is not only permissible but encouraged as a normal human function. We as humans are sexual creatures; it's self-defeating to try to hinder this. But that's what too many religions try to do.

I also wish religious people would drop the ancient dogma about "pigs are unclean". Pigs are very clean and highly intelligent.

Hobo Xiphas

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Re: Religion
« Reply #136 on: October 19, 2007, 05:32:21 PM »
I also wish religious people would drop the ancient dogma about "pigs are unclean". Pigs are very clean and highly intelligent.

But they taste awful

I believe that women were created to be subordinate to men, and men are created to be subordinate to God.

You are an idiot

This is why religion is stupid, it leads to idiots kowtowing to obsolete and wrong doctrines

I believe men were created to be subordinate to cyborgs and cyborgs are created to be subordinate to robots
« Last Edit: October 19, 2007, 05:38:47 PM by Derrek Lee Missed His School Bus »

Joe Redifer

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Re: Religion
« Reply #137 on: October 19, 2007, 05:56:57 PM »
Why do so many who convert to the country, county and state of Islam change their names to "Muhammad"?  What if everyone who did Jesus' evil bidding changed their name to Jesus?  I feel sorry for the O.G. Muhammad because now when someone calls his name, a million other people answer and in fact they were just calling Muhammad Ali because he is the best Muhammad.

Hobo Xiphas

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Re: Religion
« Reply #138 on: October 19, 2007, 06:13:29 PM »
I think Mohammad and Jesus are better names that Dakota and Wyatt, two names I heard today at the museum

People name their kids stupid things these days

ParanoiaDragon

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Re: Religion
« Reply #139 on: October 19, 2007, 06:14:26 PM »
Actually, I believe the so called 2nd coming has already happened, but I believe that his presence is totally different then what other Christians believe.  And as for if I end up being wrong, I'm realistic, since we as humans, continue to study & learn, & sometimes what we believe, can be off.  To err is human.

May I ask when it happened, according to your belief?

1914, were not the only religion that has found what we believe to be significant(& figured out something was going down that year, just weren't sure exactly what....until it happened).  I'm terrible at math, so I'd have a hard time showing you how the year 1914 is added up in the scriptures.  And, like I said, our view of what people call the 2nd coming is different.  Alot of people believe that Jesus would litterally be riding on a cloud to earth, but that's being too literal, we believe it's a heavenly presence, & that he is with those serving him, to put it simply, but also that Satan was cast out of heaven that year, & not allowed to return.  Basically, he's now trapped on earth.  Before, he could go basically wherever he pleased in the universe, but, not after 1914.  It's funny, my father in law has this theory, where, when you leave earth, you are no longer surrounded by Satan's presence, so you feel at peace.  In otherwords, when astronaughts go up in space, & feel at peace, he thinks it's because Satan's influence can't reach there :lol:  It's an interesting theory.......& maybe it's true, but, it's kind of funny to me.

Oh, & your right, most Christians don't adhere to the laws in the Bible.  For instance, it says don't fornicate, yet, most Christians do it anyways.  But things like not eating pig is different, since that was under the old Mosaic Law, that none of us are bound by.  The 10 commandments, were under the Mosaic Law, but after Christ was sacrificed, we were no longer bound by the 10 Commandments specifically, however, most of the laws still apply, post Mosaic Law.  Like thou shall not murder, honor thy parents, etc.  But things like honor the Sabbath, no longer apply to our lives.  Also, pig's were considered unlcean at the time, because it was probably difficult to cook or clean right, before consumption.  Maybe even because they were hard to bleed?  I don't know much about cooking so, not sure, but I know with blood, God considers it sacred.

Something I was thinking about, is why do people of one religion/belief date or marry people of a different religion/belief?  As I get older, it just doesn't make sense to date outside of people that share your beliefs on life.  When were kids, that's different, since most of us, didn't care as much about what we believed, but as we get older, whatever our stance is on life & how it got here, & why we're here, becomes our life.  Rather then, it being a part of our life, along with hobbies, & such.  Ofcoarse we still our have hobbies, but, I feel that what we believe in general about life, is the most important thing in our lives.  So, why would a Protestant date an Atheist?  A Muslim & a Mormon?  A Jew & a Buhddist?  Even within Christendom or Islam, why would someone of one part of those religions, date someone of another?  Like, why would a Baptist date a Pentacostal?  What's the point?  Sure, there views are similar, but, they're not the same, & to me, that would be frusterating.  

It makes sense to me now that I'm older, why were not supposed to date outside of our religion.  Because it just doesn't make sense.  One thing I can guess, is that these people maybe are just lustful, like we were when we were kids, & were so overjoyed that a girl liked us, despite what her religion was(I can speak, as I dated a drug addict, who didn't care about life, other then getting high & drunk & laid, thanks to her lousy parents, I was just so overjoyed that a girl found me attractive, & wanted actually asked ME out, a rarity, to be sure!).  The only other thing I can think of, is maybe when people of different beliefs get together, that maybe one, or both, don't really entirely believe, what they say they believe or at all.  

2 good examples of how I think it should be, would be my wife & I, & Nod & his wife.  My wife & I have the same beliefs, it's a no brainer, there's no split in how we feel about life.  Same goes for Nod & his wife, they believe in the same beliefs.  It just makes sense for it to be that way.

Michael Helgeson

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Re: Religion
« Reply #140 on: October 19, 2007, 07:27:31 PM »
I think "mostly" a stronger person would be one able to accept someone with different beliefs and learn to find the strengths in that,as opposed to ruling out everyone of  a certain class or religion except one because of fear of not being able to get along or cope or disagreements. Basically your saying you wouldn't consider dating,marrying outside your religious circle. I am not religious,not at all,but I think it is wrong,and I am sure if God exist,he/she would feel the same that it is wrong for any of you to assume that your religious perspective,point of view is the only right one.

 I mean,come on. I don't remember the Bible saying God said only Baptist,or Jehovah Whiteness,Jews,Catholics,or Pentecostals are correct. I don't remember it stating God took anyones side but the one preached in that book,the basic good God fearing/having faith in God/Christ good Christian one. All of you in your basic beliefs are either going to be right,or all of you are going to be fatally wrong,because the common values you cherish are the ones all coming from the same book. You all are in the same boat in the end,at least until one of your religious sects/groups,ect finds a way to time travel and re-wright the Bible to state that only one of your groups is right.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2007, 07:31:09 PM by Michael Helgeson »

Keranu

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Re: Religion
« Reply #141 on: October 19, 2007, 08:16:13 PM »
Why do so many who convert to the country, county and state of Islam change their names to "Muhammad"?  What if everyone who did Jesus' evil bidding changed their name to Jesus?  I feel sorry for the O.G. Muhammad because now when someone calls his name, a million other people answer and in fact they were just calling Muhammad Ali because he is the best Muhammad.
Actually it seems to me that a lot of people change their name to "Yusuf" (Joseph).
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ParanoiaDragon

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Re: Religion
« Reply #142 on: October 19, 2007, 09:10:47 PM »
But even between different Christian religions, there's things that divide, like, we don't believe in hellfire or going to heaven(other then a very select few).  So, if I ended up marrying someone who does believe in that, we have totally different views on what happens to us when we die.  It just doesn't even remotely make sense to me, to have the most important thing in your life, be wrong in the eyes of the one you love.

And ofcoarse, the Bible does say "you are my witnesses", but, that's not saying, "hey, Jehovah's Witnesses are right, just because they decided to take a name that blah blah blah".  But every person, should believe that what there own religion teaches is right.  It doesn't make sense, to think that "everybody's right"......unless your'e a Unitarian maybe :wink:  And if the Bible did say what particular religion was right, then everybody would be joining the bandwagon of that religion.  It's doing God's will, doing(or not doing) all the things that are asked of a person, that makes whatever religion right or wrong.  There are alot of religions that are doing good things, but, does that mean they are doing exactly what God told them to do.  Mathew 5:21-23 says "Not everyone saying to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the kingdom of the heavens, but the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will. Many will say to me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and expel demons in your name, and perform many powerful works in your name?’ And yet then I will confess to them: I never knew YOU! Get away from me, YOU workers of lawlessness."

And before that, at Mathew 24: 15-20 it warns about there being false prophets "Be on the watch for the false prophets that come to YOU in sheep’s covering, but inside they are ravenous wolves. By their fruits YOU will recognize them. Never do people gather grapes from thorns or figs from thistles, do they? Likewise every good tree produces fine fruit, but every rotten tree produces worthless fruit; a good tree cannot bear worthless fruit, neither can a rotten tree produce fine fruit. Every tree not producing fine fruit gets cut down and thrown into the fire. Really, then, by their fruits YOU will recognize those [men]."

I can only figure there being one truth, that God pushes along & helps, whatever religion that may be.  And why would God want a bunch of people that are off on their beliefs(especially, if He, not any human, but He deems them wicked), to be in the same boat, as whoever is right, & doing exactly what God asks of them?  Doesn't God want us to know the truth?  Or does he want people that have the semi truth, or, the false, or the completely ridiculously false, or the kind of in the right direction, etc. 

However, that's not to say there will not be ones that don't have the truth, that won't survive Armageddon, there very well might be, but that's up to God, & no one else, cuz no man can judge another(though, we as humans, always tend to judge others, it's a hard habit to fight).  However, if there are people, who have heard whatever the truth is, & denied it, why would God save them?  If I'm wrong about my beliefs, & there's some other religion, that is the truth, & I ignore it, it's like I spit in God's face!  Kind of like the Pharisees, who knew that Jesus was God's son, but instead of embracing his teachings, they plotted to have him killed!

And as for marriage in general, there's enough problems in marriages these days, with people freaking out & leaving their wives(as one of my best friends that I grew up with is doing), drowning there kids, getting pissed off about how much was spent on whatever, getting sick of the husband watching "the game" all the time & not spending any time with them, etc.  Why add the stress of disagreeing about how the earth came to be, if we're reincarnated or not, if we evolved or not, if Adam & Eve are real or not.  Those are important issues, that a couple should agree upon! 
« Last Edit: October 19, 2007, 09:16:20 PM by ParanoiaDragon »

rag-time4

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Re: Religion
« Reply #143 on: October 20, 2007, 12:18:48 PM »
Not sure what you're talking about exactly.
I'm talking about someone's lack of religion being based on hatred for all religions.

Quote from: keranu
So that's why Elijah Muhammad and Louis Farrakhan don't have beards :D ! I guess that's why Malcolm X didn't have one too before he became El-Hajj Malik al-Shabazz. Thanks for sharing that information. Could you explain more how it's self respect and a practice of discipline?

Daily shaving could be seen as self respect and a practice of discipline if interpreted as an act of self-maintenance. It's not that anyone with a beard is necessarily unclean by any means, but rather I see daily shaving as a ritual that helps practicioners cultivate self love and self respect, which we believe has been gravely lacking in the black community in particular and in the human community in general.



Quote from: keranu
I'm aware of Ezekiel's wheel and I've briefly heard about the "mother plane". Was this the same ship that Farrakhan claimed to flew in one of his dreams (or was it in actual reality)?

Yes, it's one and the same.

Quote from: keranu
Surah 4 verse 56 in the Quran mentions that our skin burns up and is replaced so it can burn again:

“Indeed, those who disbelieve in Our verses – We will drive them into a Fire.  Every time their skins are roasted through We will replace them with other skins so they may taste the punishment.  Indeed, God is ever Exalted in Might and Wise.”

Thank you for pointing out that verse/ayaa Keranu! Verse 57 also mentions the "pure companions" waiting for martyrs in heaven that I've heard so much about in the media.

The big difference, on this subject, between the Nation of Islam theology and other interpretations of the Qur'An has to do with the idea of whether Heaven and Hell are places people go after they physically die.

The Qur'An hints at the idea of people who are physically alive, but who are mentally and spiritually dead, such as in Qur'An 35:22 and 6:122.

Most, if not all, disagreements I have seen from Muslims and Christians is different interpretations of symbolic vs literal language in the Bible and Qur'An.

Quote from: keranu
I'm not exactly sure where this is from, but it's said that this life is like heaven for the unbelievers and hell for the believers while the afterlife is the opposite.
Right! I agree completely! I think that where we would disagree is on whether the "afterlife" is something that happens after we physically die or while we are physically alive.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2007, 03:22:24 PM by rag-time4 »

rag-time4

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Re: Religion
« Reply #144 on: October 20, 2007, 12:21:54 PM »
Why do so many who convert to the country, county and state of Islam change their names to "Muhammad"?  What if everyone who did Jesus' evil bidding changed their name to Jesus?  I feel sorry for the O.G. Muhammad because now when someone calls his name, a million other people answer and in fact they were just calling Muhammad Ali because he is the best Muhammad.

"Muhammad" means in Arabic something like "worthy of praise," at least according to Elijah Muhammad. I believe the Arabic names used by Muslims all have meaning other than just being an empty name with no deeper meaning.

MotoRoaderMike

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Re: Religion
« Reply #145 on: October 20, 2007, 03:03:24 PM »
I'm a Christian and proud to be.

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nodtveidt

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Re: Religion
« Reply #146 on: October 20, 2007, 03:43:44 PM »
I'm a Christian and proud to be.
Hrm...having pride in religion is almost like having pride in race. Both are pointless and really serve no purpose. Pride is good in and of itself, especially when warranted, but pride in religious beliefs leads to intolerance, which is a major contributing factor to holy wars and hatred between religions. Be proud of what you've accomplished in your life, be proud of the life you've made for yourself, be proud of how happy you are and how happy you make others, but ditch pride in the dogma you follow. It's meaningless and self-defeating.

PD made an interesting point...marrying someone of a different faith is generally not a very good idea. Sure, there are strong people out there who can accept most people the way they are (I know I can, though I am still initially distrustful of Christians), but the vast majority of people are rather weak-minded and need religion to "fit in", to give them a set of "life rules" because they can't come up with any on their own. Getting hooked up with someone who shares your beliefs frees you from the burden of changing your own comfortable system, or trying to change theirs. It also reinforces what I've been saying for many years...opposites do NOT attract, as we are humans, not magnets.

Keranu

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Re: Religion
« Reply #147 on: October 20, 2007, 05:24:53 PM »
Daily shaving could be seen as self respect and a practice of discipline if interpreted as an act of self-maintenance. It's not that anyone with a beard is necessarily unclean by any means, but rather I see daily shaving as a ritual that helps practicioners cultivate self love and self respect, which we believe has been gravely lacking in the black community in particular and in the human community in general.
Ahh, I gotcha.

Quote from: ragtime
The big difference, on this subject, between the Nation of Islam theology and other interpretations of the Qur'An has to do with the idea of whether Heaven and Hell are places people go after they physically die.

The Qur'An hints at the idea of people who are physically alive, but who are mentally and physically dead, such as in Qur'An 35:22 and 6:122.
That's interesting, I'll have to read more into that.

Quote from: ragtime
"Muhammad" means in Arabic something like "worthy of praise," at least according to Elijah Muhammad. I believe the Arabic names used by Muslims all have meaning other than just being an empty name with no deeper meaning.
I think I've read "Muhammad" translating to "the chosen one", but I might be confused with something else. Ahmed Deedat has a really interesting book and speech about Muhammad (saw) in the Bible and being the natural successor to Jesus/Isa (saw). Yusuf Ali's Quranic commentary also talks about this.
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Necromancer

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Re: Religion
« Reply #148 on: October 20, 2007, 07:01:37 PM »
Many men are too weak willed to control their thoughts and actions, particularly with regards to chasing women.  :lol: But like I said, even more than taking care of weak-willed men, it's about creating a cultural environment where women can be respected and protected.

Keep in mind that their are rules and regulations for the way Muslim men dress too, not just women.

We are told several times in the Quran and Hadith to lower our gaze from the opposite sex after the first accidental peek, unless of course it's someone you are talking to. Controling yourself would certainly come first I'd say, but the dress code simply makes things easier. I think it's also interesting to note that most converts to Islam are females and I've heard of female-to-male ratios being as high as 9:1.

Sounds like horse shit to me.  Men are not beasts that need such a crutch to keep from ravaging women on sight.

I'm a Christian and proud to be.

Hrm...having pride in religion is almost like having pride in race. Both are pointless and really serve no purpose. Pride is good in and of itself, especially when warranted, but pride in religious beliefs leads to intolerance, which is a major contributing factor to holy wars and hatred between religions. Be proud of what you've accomplished in your life, be proud of the life you've made for yourself, be proud of how happy you are and how happy you make others, but ditch pride in the dogma you follow. It's meaningless and self-defeating.

You're born with your race, but you choose a religion, so having pride in one is not akin to having pride in the other.  To be a Christian means to live a Christian lifestyle, which involves forgiveness, generosity, renunciation of violence, marital fidelity, and helping your fellow man.  I can't see anything wrong with having pride in those qualities.
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TR0N

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Re: Religion
« Reply #149 on: October 20, 2007, 07:12:42 PM »
I'm a Christian and proud to be.
To quote the church lady well isn't that special !

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