Religion

[Joe Redifer]

Looking at another chick isn't a sin.  It's as natural as breathing!  Just because one looks doesn't mean there is the slightest possibility you'd try to cheat on her, right?  Right??  Nobody sins on accident.

[Michael Helgeson]

  If I ran out on my wife, I can pretty much guarentee that would be on purpose,   If I don't fight, I keep looking, which can lead to me leaving my wife to go park the car in somebody else's garage.

Sounds like you have been thinking it over for awhile now ehh
So is that how you refer to having sex,"parking your car" in "somebodies garage" ?

If so thats really corny.

[Pcenginefx]

You know, we should have a sex thread. <hint hint>

[ParanoiaDragon]

If someone looks at a woman so as to have a passion for her, he has already commited adultary with her, in his heart.  Looking at other women is a great weakness for me(frankly, it has been since I was a little kid, but, now that I'm married, it's just plain annoying), checking a girl out, when you're married is a sin.  I used this as an example.  Believe me, when I say I love my wife more then life itself!  But, women are friggin' beautiful!  I've been getting better & better at not even checking a girl out.  Now I'm pretty much to the point, to where I don't care what a girl looks like.  Either way, I told you, like everyone else, I'm a sinner, it's inherited.

The parking in the garage thing, was just an attempt of me trying to make things a little lighter here.  That's not what I call it.  It was the only thing I could think of at the time, to say having sex in a lighter way.  I just call it sex.

Someone who steals a car, is sinning on purpose, they purposely stole that car.  Perfect beings have a simple Yes/No about doing what's wrong/right.  Imperfect beings, however, it's not so simple.  We actually struggle with various things in life, that are considered sins.  Some sins are obviously worse then others.  But, I believe, of what I call sin, we sin everyday.  As I said, it's inherited.  Thru one man, sin entered the world, & death thru sin.

[Necromancer]

If someone looks at a woman so as to have a passion for her, he has already commited adultary with her, in his heart.

But, eatin' ain't cheatin'! * 

* If it's good enough for the President, then it's good enough for me. 

[ParanoiaDragon]

But, it can lead to that.  Why get close to doing something bad, since, it starts with the thought of cheating, & progresses from there.

I should also mention, I think I might have a harder time with it possibly because of my OCD.  Not only do I check my locks & doorknobs a million times before I leave, but I also get things stuck in my head.  I just came from Trader Joe's on the way home from work, & there was quite a hot lady, that may or may not been checking me out.  But I kept telling myself to shut up, & to stop thinking.  Even while driving home, she kept creeping into my mind, & it pisses me off.  I get so sick of when I fall like that.  My wife knows that I'm struggling with looking at other women, so, it's no secret.  But, something I've been using lately, to get myself to stop, is to think of myself being smacked for looking at a chick.  And it works better then anything so far.  However, some days are worse then others, including with my door locking problem.  If I'm tired, it's worse, I have to fight even harder to battle these imperfections, it's very frusterating, but, as I said, lately, it's getting alot easier to fight, since my new tactic, it wakes me up.

[Necromancer]

You misunderstood my post P.D.  The eatin' that I was talking about didn't involve food; it was my own feeble effort at a little levity.

I fully understand where you're coming from.  The women I've known that would get pissed due to my wandering eye far outnumbered those that were cool with it.  Personally, I don't worry about a casual peek, but what you describe would bother me as it does you.

[ParanoiaDragon]

I guess I wasn't totally sure what you mean.  But, yeah, noticing a girl is hot, is one thing, but, to continue to look, or dwell on those thoughts, mentally undressing her, etc., that's where the real fight comes in, cuz I feel if I don't fight those thoughts, it will gradually lead me closer to do what is bad in God's eyes.

[Joe Redifer]

Would the big, bad G-man send you to hell for looking at some other bitch and thinking "God DAMN I'd like to pork that!  Oh well" and then just walking on?  If he did, then that god is pure evil.  Thanks for totally turning me away from your religion.  I was going to join and go annoy my neighborhood by ringing their doorbells while they eat and tell them stuff they don't want to hear, but now I'm not going to because I don't want to serve your evil, jealous god.  I hate your god.  He can go to hell.  What a loser.  I beat I could him in an arm-wrestling match, too.

You know, we should have a sex thread. <hint hint>

You just want to brag about all of your threesomes!

[ParanoiaDragon]

Nah, I wouldn't go to a fiery burning place called Hell.  God may destroy people who end up being evil, but, that's only unconsiousness, a sleep.  All people who die go to hell/sheol/hades/the grave, with the exception of the 144,000 who go to heaven, & the ones that have sinned against the holy spirit, like the Pharisee's, & Judas, will go to Gehenna(which basically means eternal destruction/no chance of ressurection).  So, for me, no matter what I do, if I die before Armageddon, I'm going to hell, & I'm fine with that, because as I stated earlier "there is no work nor devising nor knowledge nor wisdom in She′ol, the place to which you are going". 

Then, after Armageddon, I'll hopefully be resurected to perfection in everlasting life.  And if not, well, I won't bother me, because if I'm dead I won't be sitting there going "Aw, come on!  Resurect me already!".  It's like if say, my mom didn't get pregnant with me, maybe they used protection, would I be sitting somehwere going, "Aw, come on!  I want to be a living breathing bouncing baby boy!"?  I don't believe I would.  Thankfully, I believe God truly is love, otherwise, wicked people would be tormented in a fiery burning hell.  But I personally believe no such thing.  Even with the wicked that are destroyed at Armageddon, they won't be tormented in Gehenna, they will just be destroyed, & that's it.

And it's pretty damn hard to go door to door, seeing if people have an interest in learning about the Bible, epecially for me, but I follow Christ's words where he says at Mathew 28:19 & 20 "Go therefore and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded YOU. And, look! I am with YOU all the days until the conclusion of the system of things.”  That's a command, & I fight to obey it, despite how hard it is to do.  I'm a shy person in person, & ofcoarse, most people aren't comfortable just going up to people door's to find interest in the Bible.  There are JW's in foreign countries, where it's banned to preach, like in China, but they do it anyways, even if it's more in secret, at the risk of being arrested.  Even in lands in the Middle East, we go & preach, under the radar, at risk of being killed.  It's that important.  You don't have to believe me, & I don't expect you to.  But, we all have choices to make in life, & this has been my choice, despite that I feel I'm a weak willed person, I feel it's the truth, & I'm determined to never back down, believe it(as Naruto would say)!

Hmm, that's a really cool thing, about God NOT making us robots, but yet, doing what we feel is the correct thing to do, no matter how hard it is, I feel that I have the truth, & that I'm on the correct path.  Is it easy, not even.  Mathew 7:13 & 14 "Go in through the narrow gate; because broad and spacious is the road leading off into destruction, and many are the ones going in through it; whereas narrow is the gate and cramped the road leading off into life, and few are the ones finding it."

I hope that at the very least, you can respect me for trying to do what I feel is the righteous thing in my life.  Even though I don't know you personally, I don't think you are an evil person.  There's no reason for me to think that.  I believe, that whatever you are doing in life, you believe to be the corret path, & I respect you for that.

[Keranu]

Would the big, bad G-man send you to hell for looking at some other bitch and thinking "God DAMN I'd like to pork that!  Oh well" and then just walking on?  If he did, then that god is pure evil.

He could send you the hell or he could not, that's all his decision and it's not for us to judge. God is most merciful so even if you sinned thousands of times, he never hesitates to forgive if you mean it. If you believe in that, then what other person or thing could possibly be more forgiving? Evil doesn't forgive.

[Joe Redifer]

He could send you the hell or he could not, that's all his decision and it's not for us to judge.

Well I'm judging!  Let's see him try to stop me.  No?  OK.  I win.

God is most merciful so even if you sinned thousands of times, he never hesitates to forgive if you mean it.

Rock on, a free pass to do anything I want and still get the good seats after I die!

[rag-time4]

My original point was that it is a means to control women and nothing more.  If it were truly intended to keep thoughts pure, then both men and women would have the same requirements (yes, men have a dress code, but it is nowhere near as concealing as women's).

What if men and women's "weaknesses" or needs are not the same? Maybe what works well for one may not work well for the other?

But I certainly understand where you're coming from. If there were no subjugation involved and it were only about keeping thoughts pure, why shouldn't things be equal? Right?

What if men's and women's natures are a bit different?

You got me there, kind of.  Pride is the worst of the seven deadly sins, but only when it is excessive and interferes with your thoughts and actions.  My point was that having the qualities that define a 'Christian lifestyle' is something to be proud of, independent of religious code.  It doesn't matter if the actions arise because of God's instructions, because mommy told you, or just because it seemed like a good idea at the time.

I'm a Muslim and not ashamed of it.

Keranu, I found something in the New Testament about it, the head covering for women to be specific.

1 Corinthians Chapter 2

The Bible here presents it as a symbol of authority of men over women, which Necromancer spoke out against earlier.

verse 10 : For this reason the woman ought to have a symbol of authority on her head, because of the angels.

verse 3: But I want you to know that the head of every man is Christ, the head of woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.

This goes back to what I said earlier about Elijah Muhammad teaching us that women are supposed to be subordinate to men, and men are supposed to be subordinate to God. Here the Bible inserts Christ as an intermediary between man and God, which we accept, since Christ represents a perfect example for us on how to submit to the Will of Allah.

Interesting example of how to interpret something to hear just what you want to hear.  Perhaps you should read a few more verses:

11 Nevertheless, neither is man independent of woman, nor woman independent of man, in the Lord.
12 For as woman came from man, even so man also comes through woman; but all things are from God.

I interpret the earlier verses to allude to the creation of man in God's image and the creation of woman from man's rib.  In light of verses 11 and 12, how does it all imply that women are subordinate to man?[/QUOTE]

The head is the house of the mind, which controls the body, in God's ideal order of things.

When people submit to their lower desires, as with excessive sexual desire, God's order may be upset. God wants us, I believe, to condition ourselves so that our mind is dominant over our lower desires.

Verse 3, I believe, gives us God's order. Jesus, as I said above, represents to us a perfect example of oneness with God. For the rest of us, who aren't at Jesus' level, Jesus is "the way" for us to attain that Godly Mind.

Philippians 2:5

The woman, in turn, gets the Godly mind through her man, who is following in the footsteps of Christ.

The chapter that you are quoting, I Corinthians 11 is very explicit about women being subordinate to men in God's order.

7 For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, since he is the image and glory of God; but woman is the glory of man.
8 For man is not from woman, but woman from man.
9 Nor was man created for the woman, but woman for the man.
10 For this reason the woman ought to have a symbol of authority on her head, because of the angels.

I don't see it being implied that women are to be subordinate to men in God's order. It seems very clear.

You quoted verses 11 and 12:
11 Nevertheless, neither is man independent of woman, nor woman independent of man, in the Lord.
12 For as woman came from man, even so man also comes through woman; but all things are from God.

I interpret these verses, in part, as an explaination of God's order as it relates to men and women, and also a limitation and instruction on how to maintain God's order.

To give a concise (as I can) explanation: Christ cannot attain the mind of God without a woman, nor can man attain the mind of Christ without a woman. Woman cannot attain the mind of Christ without a man.

Men and women are not complete by themselves, we are taught. Rather, men and women are two different representations of the same original Essense, which is God. Islam, as taught by Elijah Muhammad, does not condone celibacy.

The Qur'An gives us some instruction on the relationship between men and women as well.

Qur'An 7:189 (Maulana Muhammad Ali translation): He it is Who created you from a single soul, and of the same did He make his mate, that he might find comfort in her...

Qur'An 4:34 (Maulana Muhammad Ali translation): Men are the maintainers of women...

I cite these to show the meaning of the Bible's statement that men and women are not independent of one another, in the Lord. Men and women have spiritual responsibilites to one another, we believe, and the fulfilling of these responsibilities is a key to unlocking the Godly mind within each and every one of us.

I want to say to everyone that none of my posts are intended to put anyone else down. Necromancer has asked me a question or questions and I'm doing my best to answer as best I can.

[rag-time4]

This thread is absolutely f*cking retarded.

It is and i wounder why it hasn't died yet.

Keranu forgot how to lock threads.

Well, I for one was just waiting for the thread to get out of control before I locked it up but we should be able to talk about religion in a civilized manner....

Thank you for giving us the opportunity!

It's been very interesting to get to know each other a little better, which is what the thread was about in the first place.

Through this thread, I found out Keranu was also a Muslim, and he sent me a PM with a link to a site that let me find a couple Mosques and a Halal [kosher] market in my town, which I probably wouldn't have found on my own. (thanks keranu)

[Keranu]

He could send you the hell or he could not, that's all his decision and it's not for us to judge.

Well I'm judging!  Let's see him try to stop me.  No?  OK.  I win.

This isn't the day of judgement.

God is most merciful so even if you sinned thousands of times, he never hesitates to forgive if you mean it.

Rock on, a free pass to do anything I want and still get the good seats after I die!
[/quote]
LOL. Forgiveness is more than just a word.

Through this thread, I found out Keranu was also a Muslim, and he sent me a PM with a link to a site that let me find a couple Mosques and a Halal [kosher] market in my town, which I probably wouldn't have found on my own. (thanks keranu)

Any time!