My Tool-Assisted Speedruns (TAS) for Turbografx

[Arkhan]

Nobody said "holy geez, I'm the best at teh vidya games 'cos I is so 1337".

Yes they have.


There was once someone in an IRC channel bragging about his gaming prowess and showing videos....

of him cheating with an emulator.

Hilarious nonsense ensued when he got ripped apart by everyone for being a flid.

[Arkhan]

Im not upset either.  I am just stating my view.   You don't have to be upset to post opinions.

[ProfessorProfessorson]

Dr.Professor, if you're not angry, why are you calling people idiots and beating a dead horse about the morality of TAS?

Cheating on spouse = bad
Cheating on tests = bad
Cheating in sports = bad
Cheating on 1 player video game for own amusement = huh? who cares.

Nobody said "holy geez, I'm the best at teh vidya games 'cos I is so 1337".

I've never even dabbled in TAS personally.  I only said that it was interesting and that liked the videos and would like to give it a try sometime... then you come in and start acting like someone depicted the Prophet Muhammed at a mosque.  What is it about this forum?  I've been a TG16 fan since the thing came out and was excited to find an active community of other fans, but so far the confrontational opinion police have swooped in to attack nearly every post I've made.

WTF are you going on about. I did not call "people" idiots. My last couple of post don't even address you for one, and were not a reply to you. The idiot was the clown trying to fish for non-existent emotions. Well, ok, maybe there is two idiots here on this thread, him and you. Instead of questioning and calling out the entire forum over its supposedly confrontational behavior you seem to dislike, you should learn to read a thread conversation better and check who the statements are addressing, and why they were made. It involves more then just yourself more often then not.

Better still, don't go comparing it to crazed attacks over religious matters that don't even concern me or anyone else here. There are plenty of people here of different religious backgrounds, and non-religious both. That is a none issue here, and that statement was not only in poor taste, because serious terror attacks do happen over things like that concerning peoples tolerance towards others religions,  but also, it's moot because it has ZERO to do with the subject being discussed here. God, Jesus, Muhammed, ENIAC, Cthulhu and crew having nothing to do with anything being said here.

[nodtveidt]

TAS videos are cool. If you don't like them, that's cool too. Opinions are like a$$holes... you know the rest.

[Jibbajaba]

What is it about this forum?  I've been a TG16 fan since the thing came out and was excited to find an active community of other fans, but so far the confrontational opinion police have swooped in to attack nearly every post I've made.

Maybe because you have 15 posts and you're already trying to argue with forum regulars.  Have some respect.  Lurk for awhile, get to know people by reading their posts, and generally try to stay out of arguments until you have at least a small reputation as a basically good forum member.  Trying to make a name for yourself by interjecting yourself into forum arguments with the regulars is not a good way to integrate yourself into the community.

Chris

[Jibbajaba]

Ah f*ck it, I don't want to get involved.

Chris

[nodtveidt]

Ah f*ck it, I don't want to get involved.

Probably a good idea.

[Arjak]

What is it about this forum?  I've been a TG16 fan since the thing came out and was excited to find an active community of other fans, but so far the confrontational opinion police have swooped in to attack nearly every post I've made.

Maybe because you have 15 posts and you're already trying to argue with forum regulars.  Have some respect.  Lurk for awhile, get to know people by reading their posts, and generally try to stay out of arguments until you have at least a small reputation as a basically good forum member.  Trying to make a name for yourself by interjecting yourself into forum arguments with the regulars is not a good way to integrate yourself into the community.

Chris

Chris, I'm not trying to argue with anyone but I appreciate your response and attempt to help me fit in.  I had lurked for a while.  I have not been disrespectful intentionally, but I do not tolerate disrespect very well... I understand respect is earned whereas disrespect can be had freely. How long must one lurk, and how many times must one bite their tongue before integration is achieved?  In this thread, all I said was that I thought the TAS vids were cool, then I get tag teamed by people who disagree and gradually escalated the conversation to flames.

I'm still hopeful that I'll find this to be a community I want to integrate with as there are so many interesting conversations going on between people who seem to be genuinely nice. I used to run a large forum/IRC so I know how difficult it can be for someone new to the scene to be accepted, but at the same time I do not feel obligated to just sit silently when someone with a higher post count decides to disagree with me.  It is kind of disappointing to me because sometimes it happens to be people who I'd pegged as cool after having reading their other posts.

I agree with nullity; just because a person has been here longer doesn't mean that they're right about everything. If new users, who appear to be willing to be competent upstanding members of the forum, are going to be flamed just for disagreeing with a vet of the forum, why not just merge with the neo-geo forums?

Seriously, just let people have their fun trying to make games their b*tch. If you don't appreciate it, fine. Just don't get your panties in a bunch over someone disagreeing with you on it.

[Arkhan]

Ah f*ck it, I don't want to get involved.

Chris

LOL... is it too late for me to take that option?

Why white knight someone else you don't even know.  Let them do it themselves, lol.

Especially when that other person is instigating personal flame wars on the forum.

[ProfessorProfessorson]

You did call DK an idiot, and I chose to respond you your post.  You don't have to address me to elicit a response when we're all discussing the same thing- which is how upset you seem to get when people have an opinion that differs from your own.  I'll also respond to your claim that DK "is fishing for non-existent emotions"- you make no sense.  Perhaps you should re-read his posts and compare the tone against your own posts and look for the difference.  You may spot the emotions.  His were polite, whereas yours were full of verbal chest-puffing.

DK is not more then one person. You stated I called "people" idiots. People being plural. Anyone going around claiming people are experiencing non-existent emotions over trivial shit like cheating in game clears IS a idiot for not simply taking the comment for what it is, expressing a opinion. Calling someone a idiot for doing the such is not "verbal chest-puffing", its stating a fact. Calling someone a cheater for using save states, hacks, cheat codes, etc to clear a game is not "verbal chest-puffing", or being emotional either. Again, its stating fact.

While it perhaps wasn't in the best taste, I stand by my Muhammed metaphor, which I shall explain now since it seems to have gone over your head and hit your religious tolerance centers instead of your rationality and self reflection center:

Your reaction is out of proportion to the offense you are reacting to; at least to those who do not share your views or opinions.

My reaction was stating a fact. I'm not going to butter the guy up with bullshit and lie to him and tell him he did some great thing, some huge accomplishment, when he in fact did not. Your metaphor as you'd like to put it, has no bearing at all on the content of the conversation. I did not make threats on his life, call his family disparaging names, torch his house, or threaten to time travel to 2062 and rape his grandkids.  I called him a cheater, for cheating on a game, and a idiot, for making false claims about my emotional state about the subject, the same as you are doing. Cheat on games, you're a cheater. Say stupid shit, you're a idiot. That too hard a concept for you to grasp?

I'd wager you're not even really a professor. So, following the example of your reaction to TAS videos being advertised and posted as TAS videos:  How dare you claim to be a professor when you're not one... roar! People should go about getting that title the honest way!

Again, you are a idiot.
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Professor%20Professorson

As for your assertation that I've called out and generalized the whole community as being confrontational, you're mistaken.  What I said is that so far, almost every post I've made has been responded to in a hostile and confrontational manner.  Look at my post count... mathematically, it is unlikely that I've spoken with everyone.  You can point the finger at me all you want, but you and a few of the other members are the ones being irrational and rude.  Can't blame me for not responding kindly to that.

You stated specifically " What is it about this forum?". The moment you stated that, you spoke of, and addressed, the community as a whole when stating your complaint. So, as you stated, mathematically, its not only unlikely, but also impossible you have had a confrontation with the majority of this forum. Therefore, you should not be starting your verbal complaints with "what is it about this forum?", for obvious reasons. Sorry you cant seem to grasp that.





 Btw, I'm not only not a professor, I'm not a pawnbroker either. For serious.

[ProfessorProfessorson]

cries a lot.

Sexy Banana Pass to you too. Good Day, SIR!

[Jibbajaba]

What is it about this forum?  I've been a TG16 fan since the thing came out and was excited to find an active community of other fans, but so far the confrontational opinion police have swooped in to attack nearly every post I've made.

Maybe because you have 15 posts and you're already trying to argue with forum regulars.  Have some respect.  Lurk for awhile, get to know people by reading their posts, and generally try to stay out of arguments until you have at least a small reputation as a basically good forum member.  Trying to make a name for yourself by interjecting yourself into forum arguments with the regulars is not a good way to integrate yourself into the community.

Chris

Chris, I'm not trying to argue with anyone but I appreciate your response and attempt to help me fit in.  I had lurked for a while.  I have not been disrespectful intentionally, but I do not tolerate disrespect very well... I understand respect is earned whereas disrespect can be had freely. How long must one lurk, and how many times must one bite their tongue before integration is achieved?  In this thread, all I said was that I thought the TAS vids were cool, then I get tag teamed by people who disagree and gradually escalated the conversation to flames.

I'm still hopeful that I'll find this to be a community I want to integrate with as there are so many interesting conversations going on between people who seem to be genuinely nice. I used to run a large forum/IRC so I know how difficult it can be for someone new to the scene to be accepted, but at the same time I do not feel obligated to just sit silently when someone with a higher post count decides to disagree with me.  It is kind of disappointing to me because sometimes it happens to be people who I'd pegged as cool after having reading their other posts.

Here's all I'm saying.

Let's say that you move into a new neighborhood.  And that neighborhood has a little local bar.  So you're thinking, "cool, that'll be a cool place to hang out."  So you go in, and predictably it's a bar full of neighborhood regulars who all know each other.  So you go in there for a couple of days and try to integrate yourself into this little "community" of people who really only know each other because they've all been hanging out in the same bar forever.  Being comfortable with each other, they give each other shit ("how's your wife and my kids"), get in the occasional drunken argument, buy each other beers, etc.  

At this point, you basically have two options.  Just start hanging out at the bar, slowly becoming a familiar face, being friendly to the regulars, etc. until you eventually become just another regular on the same level as everyone else.  Or you could walk in there, have a few beers, and start acting the exact same way everyone else does as though you've been there forever.  People are thinking "who the f*ck is this guy?", but since you haven't really done anything to offend anyone, you're tolerated.  But then you push it too far.  "Hey Bob, nice shirt.  Didn't they have it in your size?  By the way, your wife left her bra at my place last night."  Or let's just say that a few of the regulars get in to an argument over something.  Politics, football, the best brand of shaving cream, whatever.  You interject yourself into the discussion instead of just hanging back.  Again "who the f*ck are you" will be the common thought amongst the regulars, and you'll have a harder time eventually becoming "just one of the guys."  You finally give up, leave, and tell people that "it seemed like a cool place, but not very friendly to new customers."

This isn't just aimed at you, nullity, but basically any new members who instantly have problems with people here.  Newbs basically need to learn to chill the f*ck out, and if someone gives you a little too much shit, you might just have to take it on the chin.  Or at the very least, tell the person to f*ck off and leave it at that.  Complaining that you're being attacked because you're a newb is the absolute WORST thing you can do.

Chris

[DarkKobold]

It doesn't make me angry idiot, so don't go fishing for non-existent emotions regarding the subject. Using any type of "tools" not originally present in the gameplay, intended by the programmers to be utilized in normal game play, to clear a game, is cheating, regardless of your intentions for the video. Just because you somehow decided to make yourself unemotionally invested in the process of clearing the game, playing it like a robot programmed for one straight task, editing out all mistakes in your game play, doesn't make the cheat any less significant. Just because you label it as something other then a normal game clear doesn't mean its still not a game clear. You still cleared the game, but you cheated to do it. You are clearing the game in a fashion that uses methods of bypassing the challenges that were presented before you. The whole point of the game is lost due to this. And yeah, no one is forcing me to watch them, and I don't. Using games and Legos as a comparison to justify the such as not being cheating is idiotic. Legos are a form of model, not a game.

Why do games only have to be played "the way they were meant to be played?"

I never said they had to be. You can cheat all damn day for all I care with your emulation, save states, etc. But cheating to win, for the goal of shaving off time or whatever, I don't care the reasoning behind it, doesn't make you a better player, it just makes you a weak hack. You want to do a video specifically to show exploits in a stage, fine. But don't go bragging about how you cleared a game in 5-20 mins after using save states and other exploits and whatever else, and act like you faced some godly challenge even worth mentioning. There is NOTHING cool or impressive about that. You should just call the videos what they really are. Cheat/save state assisted speed runs. You call it TAS because it sounds nicer on paper. Its whitewashing your game play.

I don't mean to attribute emotions to you, and I never once called you an idiot. Your posts just appear to be very emotional in tone, I don't know how you can't see that.

I've heard your argument before. I never understood why people feel like TASes take something away from their own personal experience with a game. People almost feel attacked by these runs, and they get very emotional about it. These runs aren't meant to be compared to a normal playthrough, or even demonstrate one. They are meant for something completely different. I disagree with the notion that they replace the experience of a game.

Does the game retain its normal challenge with TASing tools? Of course not. Instead, it is a different challenge - how do I make do with less? Less leveling in RPGs, less power ups in action games, less time in general? TASing will never make you a better player at the game, but who ever said that was the goal?

We call them "Save state assisted runs." Except Savestate is just one of the tools. I've looked at the assembly of games to help me better TAS them, written programming scripts, written brute-force bots, and many other tools.

Anyway, I don't see this discussion going anywhere, and this topic was pretty well covered 6 years ago. We aren't calling them cheat runs, because they aren't. That thread covers the both the pro and con, and comes to a nice consensus.

[vestcoat]

What is it about this forum?  I've been a TG16 fan since the thing came out and was excited to find an active community of other fans, but so far the confrontational opinion police have swooped in to attack nearly every post I've made.

Don't take it personally, Nullity. The reason you're running into strong language is because two-thirds of your posts have been in Gouging Much or a discussion with Professorson. Everyone not on the level gets barked at in Gounging Much. Prof is a stand-up guy, this is just how he argues. Some people don't like TAS's because it's not how the games were intended to be played. IMO, any gameplay video without a shaky camera and the voice of a youtube critic is A-OK.

You've only interacted with a handful of people. Post whatever you want. Stay on topic and nobody cares. Nothing short of a serious bender or some gouging in the sale forum will make a lasting impression around here.

[ProfessorProfessorson]

a lot of crap and We aren't calling them cheat runs, because they aren't. That thread covers the both the pro and con, and comes to a nice consensus.

Yeah, and red is black, those cats lounging on your porch are really turtles, and the moon is actually a giant block of tasty cheddar f*cking cheese. WTF ever. A small league of supercheaters convene on a thread for a roundtable discussion taking place in the hopes of convincing their selves, and the world by proxy, that they are not really cheaters, and pat their selves on the back for doing such a great job of it and expect the rest of the world to buy it by linking to their discussion whenever these issues arise. Yeah, that totally not makes them cheaters, just like The Legion of Super-Villains would totally not be comprised of super villains after they decided to gather round for a roundtable discussion on how robbing the world bank or blowing up Hoover Dam or plotting to destroy JLA wasn't really evil or nuthin, and needed to be done for the betterment of mankind, declaring themselves to actually be superheros, then broadcasting a message worldwide stating the such, right?