Super Street Fighter 2 Turbo

[KnightWarrior]

Can it be done on the Turbo CD??

With all the Music, Sprites, Animation in the Game

Of cource it will use the Arcade Card

[BigusSchmuck]

Can it be done on the Turbo CD??

With all the Music, Sprites, Animation in the Game

Of cource it will use the Arcade Card

Add the super grafx to the mix and maybe yes. Honestly, I don't see why it can't be done seeing how we have Fatal Fury Special and the Art of Fighting with the Arcade card....

[MottZilla]

If you wanted the original arcade resolution I'm not so sure, maybe with the SGX. Doesn't matter though, won't ever happen unless you find someone very talented and crazy enough to try to do such a thing. For one it's not like Capcom is going to hand out the source code to the game.

[SignOfZeta]

Certainly. Most of what happens in SSFII' is the same shit that happened in SFII. Ryu is %95 identical, so is Ken, Guile, etc. Some have different voice samples, a few new moves, a lot of recolored shit. You need to add five new characters, but that's no problem at all on CD. The music can run off the CD.

Resolution wouldn't be the same, but does any port of a CPS2 game have correct resolution? I'm not sure.

You'd need the Arcade Card for sure, but you wouldn't need no stupid Supergrafx.

[spenoza]

It has been argued that the Arcade Card doesn't actually have enough RAM to store all the animation frames of two combatants and their backgrounds, and that the special HuCard was the only way to truly do SF2 right on the PCE. This means that SF2 Turbo would need an even larger HuCard and would also not be practicable on the Arcade Card.

[Black Tiger]

Something that looks like the 3DO version certainly would be no problem.

Most people don't perceive much of the animation and details in games like this, so if some is missing it would still pass as "perfect".

[Tatsujin]

It has been argued that the Arcade Card doesn't actually have enough RAM to store all the animation frames of two combatants and their backgrounds, and that the special HuCard was the only way to truly do SF2 right on the PCE. This means that SF2 Turbo would need an even larger HuCard and would also not be practicable on the Arcade Card.

what's the calculation there? the ACD could store about the same size of data for one level than the 20mbit Hucard could for the whole SFII' game.

[SignOfZeta]

It has been argued that the Arcade Card doesn't actually have enough RAM to store all the animation frames of two combatants and their backgrounds, and that the special HuCard was the only way to truly do SF2 right on the PCE. This means that SF2 Turbo would need an even larger HuCard and would also not be practicable on the Arcade Card.

That makes zero sense to me for two main reasons:

1) The Neo games have WAY more assets than SFII does. SFII was mind blowing in 1991, but things moved on quickly and after a few years of Capcom using the exact same sprites/animation/resolution/color depth/hardware, etc they were quickly surpassed in the art department by SNK. Across five different SFII releases Ryu has the following changes: different Hadouken animation, lunging punch thing (forward->fierce), air tastumaki kick (no new animation), getting up animation, Shinku Hadouken (recolored frames of existing animation). I think that's it. Any system that can handle SFII can handle SSFIIX. The main reason to go from CPS1 to CPS2, really, was copyright protection.

2) The Arcade Card wasn't even out yet when SFII came out. I think the AC was almost two years after SFII'.


The main reason, as it seemed to me at the time, for SFII' to be made on a HuCard instead of a Super CD was that the Super CD card was too memory poor. Supposedly Capcom was toying with a hybrid CD/Hu release like KOF '95, but I think the main reason they scrapped that is they wanted as many PCE people to be able to play it as possible. CDROM2 people were only part of PCE ownership. The same logic applies to Bomberman releases (which could have easily been done on SuperCD). Its also possible they didn't want load times. They were trying (and in the end succeeded) to make a version comparable with the SFC version of SFII and the upcoming SFC and MD ports of SFII'Turbo. A CD version on PCE would have been the only version that loaded.

Of course, none of that applies to an Arcade Card version except for HuCards having a larger audience, which I'm pretty sure is the reason they made it a HuCard instead of a SuperCD or hybrid HuCard/SuperCD. By the time the AC came out, Capcom (and pretty much everyone else) was long gone from PCE forever.

[MottZilla]

I don't know who would ever have suggested that it wouldn't have been possible to achieve a SNES/MD style SSF2 port on the Arcade CD because of memory. The Arcade CD has plenty of memory to handle that. When I said arcade resolution before, know that I really mean that the graphics are not redrawn/squished/scaled down. The SNES, Genesis, and PCE ports of SF2 all had the graphics reduced in size fitting with the 256 pixel wide resolution. This requires less memory too. However the later ports such as PS1 and Saturn do not use reduced size graphics at all. They use the full resolution graphics. I do think that Saturn and probably PS1 cropped the view a bit as Saturn I believe was restricted to either 352 or 320 pixel wide resolutions and the CPS1 and CPS2 had 384 pixel width.

[spenoza]

You all are, of course, correct. I misremembered an old post. I searched back through the forums to double-check and I did indeed remember it incorrectly. My mistake.

[KnightWarrior]

Thanks for the input guys

I'm guessing Capcom or NEC Maxed out the Memory on the PCE,  Hyper Fighting would have relly pushed the PCE to the Max

[Black Tiger]

Thanks for the input guys

I'm guessing Capcom or NEC Maxed out the Memory on the PCE,  Hyper Fighting would have relly pushed the PCE to the Max

It was the same for Sega/Mega-CD, there just isn't enough room within 2 - 6 megs for all the player animation to access at the speed it needs. SFII' requires uncompressed sprites to animate fast enough. There is no memory limit for the PCE any more than there is for Mega Drive and Super Famicom. All three used bank switching/misc techniques once their cart size limits were reached. You could do Street Fighter Zero 3 on a PCE HuCard.

[nodtveidt]

Tom said something about the characters taking up a lot of memory space... like, Dhalsim was like 127KB or so... something like that. It'd be impossible to do that with the regular System 3.0 spec, as there's simply not enough memory. SFII was going to be a hucard from the start, though it's said that Capcom had planned to do a hybrid design, where the music was on CD but the game was on the cart. To do that, apparently the card has to be configured as a system card, and you will either need to copy over portions of the system card's BIOS, or would have to write your own CDROM driver code... neither would really be hard for a company like Capcom, but I guess they just didn't want to limit its exposure so they just stuck with the straight hucard design.

[MottZilla]

Pushing the PCE "to the max" is more like pushing the bounds of what it can process with the cpu, transfer via DMA, and draw on the screen (like sprites). Memory is just memory. You could have a HuCard with as much memory as a late Nintendo 64 game if you really wanted. But back in the time frame we are talking about, the 20 megabits of memory in SF2'CE Hucard was alot. If that character graphics figure is right, about 128K for just one character's graphics you would never be able to pull that off on the Super CD-ROM. But the Arcade CD no problem, I think it has 2 megabytes or so to deal with. Not bad when the SNES SSF2 cartridge was 4 megabytes. I'm sure character graphics take up the majority of space as across all the 16bit ports of SF2 you had to have the character graphics uncompressed for DMA transfers into VRAM. They may have compressed all the other graphics they could though like stage backgrounds. Ofcourse that doesn't help except for storage.

It's actually rather interesting that the Super CD only has about 256kb of Memory if I remember right. Yet even with that tiny amount of memory it has some really wonderful games. I think the Sega CD had a whole lot more memory, though the Arcade Card turns that around.

[Black Tiger]

It's actually rather interesting that the Super CD only has about 256kb of Memory if I remember right. Yet even with that tiny amount of memory it has some really wonderful games. I think the Sega CD had a whole lot more memory, though the Arcade Card turns that around.

The way that tech experts describe it, the Sega-CD actually has three separate 2meg banks, instead of the general strtaight-6meg figure normally tossed around. Apparently a developer had to be pretty skilled to utilize all that memory at once, just as the Sega-CD has other bottlenecks. Judging by the content in the average Sega-CD game, I'm guessing that many/most only used 2megs of storage or ran most things from a single 2meg bank and maybe had other minor things stored in other places.