Super Street Fighter 2 Turbo

[spenoza]

Rover, remember that Capcom had about as much to do with the PCE SF2 as they did most other PCE Capcom games, meaning probably not much besides providing code and art assets. NEC Avenue did the SF2 port on PCE.

[MottZilla]

Black Tiger, I looked it up since you mentioned it. You're right, a measly 512Kbyte of RAM, I think that is mapped to the 12mhz 68000 cpu. Then another 256Kbyte of RAM shared between both 68000 CPUs. Atleast that is what the information I read suggested.

In that case it really isn't all that much. It is still significantly more than the Super CD-ROM card provides, but not all that much and the Arcade card certainly puts it to shame. I think Sega should have followed the PCE with the idea of expanding memory by using the cartridge slot. Ofcourse I think the Sega CD was doomed as it was anyway.

I'm not sure you are right about only using part of RAM, thats 6 Megabits of memory available to the faster (12mhz) 68000 cpu. I would imagine the easiest thing to do or best thing to do if you aren't actually using both CPUs would be to ditch the base cpu (7.5mhhz 68000) and just use the Sega CD 12mhz 68000 and the 6 megs of memory as needed. But 6 megs only goes so far. Look at Mortal Kombat, the cartridge used 16 megs. And it used less animation than the CD version. So it's no wonder about load times and the slow Shang Tsung morphing and such.

I would think SF2 would have been possible on Sega CD if the early detail of around 127K for one of the characters is accurate. I think you'd have enough memory for both characters and all the other assets for a battle. Ofcourse anything is possible if you adjust it enough. I would think SF2 SCE as it appeared on cartridge probably could have been done on Sega CD.

[soop]

Rover, remember that Capcom had about as much to do with the PCE SF2 as they did most other PCE Capcom games, meaning probably not much besides providing code and art assets. NEC Avenue did the SF2 port on PCE.

No, I thought that too, but it was the same team as the Megadrive and Snes versions.  Someone actually linked to the credits as they appeared at the end of the game, and they're Capcom staff.

I think that was on Sega 16.

[nodtveidt]

With the Arcade Card, you can use the system RAM for only program code and PSG effects. That helps a LOT. The program code for a fighting game doesn't tend to be too complex either... they tend to have very basic AI.

[Arkhan]

You could always cut out frames of animation!  YEAH

[nodtveidt]

I still remember being irritated by the SNES port of Samurai Shodown... the number of missing frames was ridiculous.

[Black Tiger]

Rover, remember that Capcom had about as much to do with the PCE SF2 as they did most other PCE Capcom games, meaning probably not much besides providing code and art assets. NEC Avenue did the SF2 port on PCE.

No, I thought that too, but it was the same team as the Megadrive and Snes versions.  Someone actually linked to the credits as they appeared at the end of the game, and they're Capcom staff.

I think that was on Sega 16.

I don't think that the credits are accurate. Just as secret teams made many games during the 16-bit generation, I think that the credits being too similar or identical to other versions is a sign that they don't reflect the PCE version.

[SignOfZeta]

Rover, remember that Capcom had about as much to do with the PCE SF2 as they did most other PCE Capcom games, meaning probably not much besides providing code and art assets. NEC Avenue did the SF2 port on PCE.

No, I thought that too, but it was the same team as the Megadrive and Snes versions.  Someone actually linked to the credits as they appeared at the end of the game, and they're Capcom staff.

I think that was on Sega 16.

I don't think that the credits are accurate. Just as secret teams made many games during the 16-bit generation, I think that the credits being too similar or identical to other versions is a sign that they don't reflect the PCE version.

Yeah, I think they just copied the staff roll from the arcade version.

[soop]

No, they are different to the point that nicknames are used in place of names in some cases, and it's not 100% the same people iirc.  I'll try and find it, but it'll be difficult.

woot!  Original thread (worth a read, particularly about the Amiga conversion) http://www.sega-16.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-6469.html

PC Engine credits: http://www.mobygames.com/game/turbo-grafx/street-fighter-ii-special-champion-edition/credits
Megadrive credits: http://www.mobygames.com/game/genesis/street-fighter-ii-special-champion-edition/credits

The SNES also has a few people that worked on other conversions, but if you click on each name, you can see that at least most of them were working for Capcom (or on capcom games).

[Black Tiger]

No, they are different to the point that nicknames are used in place of names in some cases, and it's not 100% the same people iirc.  I'll try and find it, but it'll be difficult.

woot!  Original thread (worth a read, particularly about the Amiga conversion) http://www.sega-16.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-6469.html

PC Engine credits: http://www.mobygames.com/game/turbo-grafx/street-fighter-ii-special-champion-edition/credits
Megadrive credits: http://www.mobygames.com/game/genesis/street-fighter-ii-special-champion-edition/credits

The SNES also has a few people that worked on other conversions, but if you click on each name, you can see that at least most of them were working for Capcom (or on capcom games).

It is possible, but whoever did work directly on the PCE version would be essentially translating over the work of the SFC versions team, so many of those credits may be for their still major contributions. What we do know for sure is how vague or misleading that game credits were back then, so it's anybody's guess really. There is a site with otherwise secret info on who really developed various games, which says that the team who did Gate of Thunder also worked on the Genesis Thunder Force games. But I'm guessing that the credits probably don't make that clear. Madden Duo CD Football was done by Hudson, but may very well be loaded with EA credits.

[spenoza]

Well, the art assets and game design credits and all that will still belong to Capcom. NEC Avenue would only have some coding and management credits, really, and they still have to pay tribute to the original code that their version is based upon. I'm sure NEC Avenue consulted with Capcom in detail as well. But yeah, the credits that are different should be the NEC Avenue staff, there the mirrored credits will be the original artists, coders, and consultants.

[soop]

Well the only people who are definitely NEC rather than Capcom are:
Technical Design
Nobuhiro Takagaki (Nob),
Yasunobu Kasuya

Market Design
Masao Takeuchi
Nobuyuki Kondō
Hirotada Hashimoto

(though there are people with only the one game to their name).

That's only 5 NEC staff to make an AAA title, which I think is a little far fetched, even if you could cancel out sprite design and game mechanics.  In fact "market design" sounds like they worked on marketing, which leaves 2 guys to create the game.

I'd be very surprised if Capcom didn't send a few guys off with their packed lunches, or more likely, NEC sent a couple of guys to Capcom HQ, where the people who have already done (at least) 2 home ports used some NEC knowledge to port again to the PC Engine.

I think it's putting the horse before the cart to send out an AAA title to be developed by 2 guys at NEC with no previous working knowledge of the game.  It's far more likely the other way around, plus the fact that Capcom can keep their precious source code close to their chest.

Even the front cover says "licensed to NEC", which is hardly proof that they coded it.

[spenoza]

I think it's putting the horse before the cart to send out an AAA title to be developed by 2 guys at NEC with no previous working knowledge of the game.  It's far more likely the other way around, plus the fact that Capcom can keep their precious source code close to their chest.

Have you seen how many platforms have Street Fighter II ports, and how much money many of those home ports made? That source code wasn't precious at all. That source code was the town whore  ; )

As you yourself said, there are several names with no other credits, and they could well have been NEC employees, especially if they're not listed for the ports to other platforms.

As for 2 guys porting the code for an AAA title, I don't see how that would be impossible at all. 2 qualified, experienced coders working salaried, long-hours work weeks with all the assets and program structure already created, with design documents already prepared for dealing with ports, porting it to the PCE and then optimizing the code. And one of those un-named folks probably did the music conversion. No, that's no problem at all. Keep in mind that at that time in game development, AAA titles could be crafted by one or two people, even if they usually weren't. I don't have a problem buying into 2 programmers handling all the code-porting duties.

Again, they probably had some guidance and consulted with Capcom, but I doubt Capcom actually had to touch any of the code on the port. The PCE was simply not a platform of expertise or interest for them. It would be much easier for Capcom to leave the port to NEC Avenue since NEC had the programmers who know the hardware. Look how many other Capcom ports they did. They probably had a good working relationship with the NEC Avenue team and trusted them to do the coding.

[soop]

I dunno, capcom did a lot of PC Engine games - even 2 of the Super Grafx games.  But your point about the amount of ports available on other platforms doesn't discount the fact that, while it might have been ported frequently, they still would not have wanted the source for the most popular fighting game at the time falling into the hands of SNK, or any of the other companies who might have challenged them.

You might say that it would be obvious just by playing it enough, all the little things that make Street Fighter II great, but the little things would be carefully weighted, and without the numbers.. well, you've seen all the would-be Street Fighter II beaters during the 16 bit years and on.  That shit's their special sauce.

[Black Tiger]

I dunno, capcom did a lot of PC Engine games - even 2 of the Super Grafx games.  But your point about the amount of ports available on other platforms doesn't discount the fact that, while it might have been ported frequently, they still would not have wanted the source for the most popular fighting game at the time falling into the hands of SNK, or any of the other companies who might have challenged them.

You might say that it would be obvious just by playing it enough, all the little things that make Street Fighter II great, but the little things would be carefully weighted, and without the numbers.. well, you've seen all the would-be Street Fighter II beaters during the 16 bit years and on.  That shit's their special sauce.

Everything I've ever heard and judging from the games themselves, says that the only PCE game Capcom might have had a hand in was Son Son II. Ports aren't always made by the company or team responsible for the original. Before the Genesis got big enough, Sega developed all the Capcom ports which they published as well.