'Pcenginefx.com market value' Price List

[Lilgrafx]

Yep, here it is.  http://www.pcenginefx.com/forums/index.php?topic=7062.0

$175 for magical chase, I wish

[DarkKobold]

Look here, dickbag, a lot of us have been here for years, bought our Turbos when they were in stores, we've beaten the subjects of Magical Chase, and price guides, and market manipulation to death (use the goddamn search tool), and we're not really interested in dredging the lake every two weeks when some a$$hole noob with fifty posts waltzes in and demands an explanation of why we don't think ebay prices are some kind of sacrament from God.  You might find a couple of receptive listeners, but you're basically arguing with a bunch of grognards and surly old misanthropes. In case you didn't notice, we have a nearly 200-hundred-page thread bitching about ebay prices and half the guys here are members of the f*ck Ebay Club. If you're so smart and we're so arrogant, then crawl back to ebay or try to find good deals and raffles on Racketboy. If you don't like our views, you're caucusing with the wrong party.

You actually do a good job of explaining it, this is basically the republican party. "We have our ideas, who cares about the facts?" However, I think you are speaking for far too much of the community. Don't pretend you speak for everyone here.

Also, there are plenty of people here who have been awesome to me. I've gotten good trades, good deals, and etc.  I like it here, because I do get good deals. How do I know they are deals? Because they are below eBay prices! I have no intention to resell. In fact, I've been hesitant to sell any of my extra turbo-stuff (despite numerous offers). I'd rather keep it to trade and build my collection.

Nintendo stuff? I'll sell that crap like a madman.

Finally, just because I'm new here, doesn't mean I'm new to collecting. 

Anyway, here's one account for your proof:

What really gets me is a particular guy who sells on ebay... I asked him if he had MC, because of the items(s) he was selling, and he told me he had 6 or 8 copies.  And when I keep harassing him, presumably to sell me a copy, he told me he was holding on to them for investment purposes. 

Interesting. I wonder how this is going to work out for him. I've said it elsewhere (I'm far more active at www.reddit.com/r/gamecollecting), but I find video games to be a very bad investment. The short argument is that a good investment should have high liquidity. In poor economic times, video games have very very poor liquidity, as people do not have discretionary income. (People often confuse disposable and discretionary.) However, resilience in poor economic times is the exact reason to have good investments.  In essence, he is banking on the continued prosperity of his economy - a bet I'd not be willing to take in the current world economic climate.

There is one copy of MC available on the public market right now. You have to be a little bit resourceful to find it, but it's there and the price, while outlandish by our standards, would probably be reasonable by yours, considering its condition.

Interesting. I found one PCE copy available (which I don't count, but some might.) Just because I defend eBay prices, doesn't mean I'm willing to pay them. I don't know if you are willing to share it, but I'd be curious to see it. Also, wolfsaq2 would probably love to see it as well - and would possibly be happy to pay the price. The poor guy just wants to finish his TG set.

[Necromancer]

Alright, genius, if that is what it is worth, I'll pay you $75. Easy $25 profit. Go find a copy for $50. Waiting...

Oh wait, you can't.

Did I say that those two auctions are the only determinants in estimating value?  Nope, but keep grasping at straws - your floundering makes me smile.

That is not Open Market Value. Lets look at actual completed auctions -

ACTUAL f*ckING DATA!

Yep, and the actual f*cking data shows that its current value is $47.99.  You're right - it's 100% accurate!

You are making a substantial claim here. You provide the proof. Waiting...

And you're making an equally substantial counter claim.  I'm anxiously awaiting your proof. 

I and many others here have witnessed resellers like Pompey Parsons buying multiple copies when they can get 'em cheap and reselling high, but I needn't provide proof to fools (vestcoat did it for me anyway).  If you want to stick your head in the sand and ignore the facts of how resellers operate (a.k.a. basic economics), that's your problem.

Ebay, Amazon, half, etc are the only markets open to the general public. Unless you consider PM deals here "open market." If you do, then you are retarded.

And only a retard would ignore open forum sales threads, craigslist deals, local retailers, buying stuff at game conventions, etc.

Really, then, oh grand master, what is the point? Magical Chase isn't available for sale, to anyone at the moment. Prove me wrong.

The point, oh ignorant one, is that people aren't listing it for sale because it does not sell at the inflated prices clowns proclaim it to be worth.

I made NO CLAIM as to what their financial situation was. For all we know, some sellers could be exactly like BlackTiger said. However, without any factual data, we can't make any factual assertion either way. BlackTiger quoted his credit card bullshit as fact. I simply stated that "fact" was a made up fantasy.

Wrong again:  stating that B.T. was living in a fantasy world negated the possibility of him being correct.  Aren't semantics fun?

You keep saying this. However, beyond Amazon and half.com, what are "open markets" available for the general public to make buying decisions? Given the world-wide nature of eBay and its ilk, you aren't going to find a more accurate indicator of what people are willing to pay, based on the availability of an item.

See above.

Actually, BINs that don't sell are a perfect example of the free market working. People post things, they don't sell. Ergo, they are not worth what the person asked. If you somehow thought I was suggesting that unsold BINs are an indicator of actual value, then there is no hope for you.

And yet there were unsold copies of Magical Chase for less than what it's sold for on eBay.  I'm confused.... it's worth less than the unsold BINs while simultaneously worth at least as much as the sold price?

Sticks and stones.

Says the twelve year old that came out swinging for B.T.

Provide facts and data, instead of making baseless assertions and cutesy insults.

I'll use your 'facts and data': Dynastic Hero is currently worth $47.99.

[DarkKobold]

I make a killing buying and selling off craigslist. If craigslist were FMV, that would be impossible.

Wrong again:  stating that B.T. was living in a fantasy world negated the possibility of him being correct.  Aren't semantics fun?

No, the fantasy world was that he knew exactly the financial situation of these people.

 However, after thinking about it, I realized that it would take a special brand of stupid to put an investment in video games on a credit card. Lets take a scenario, with the mythical Legend of Hero Soldier Chase Blade TG-16 game. There is an auction right now on Ebay starting at .99c. Our faithful reseller, WhiteTiger, bids it up to $100, and wins. Now, obviously, all the other bidders on LoHSCB weren't willing to pay more than $100, so it has a FMV currently of $100. According to the theory of Credit-Gouging, WhiteTiger immediately relists it on Ebay BIN for twice the price.  If it sells, he makes $68 - shipping. ($200 * .84 (ebay/paypal fees) - $100 = $68)

However, all buyers interested in LoHSCB weren't willing to pay over the $100, so they aren't going to be interested in it at $200. So, he is stuck with it for a month, and has to pay his credit card bill. Credit card fees are currently an average of 16.87%. He's now only at $51 profit. But wait, it didn't sell another month! He now has to pay interest on his balance plus his interest! He's now got a balance of $136.59 on his credit card! Down to $32 in profit. If it doesn't sell that 2nd month... He has now spent $159.63 on the initial $100 investment. His profit is at $9, if he sells in the third month. Then it starts going negative.

Three things: Credit card debt is very, very, very bad debt to have. Buying off ebay to resell on Ebay is bad business, and third, does anyone have a copy of LoHSCB for sale? I've been looking everywhere.

I'll use your 'facts and data': Dynastic Hero is currently worth $47.99.

I'll agree. The PCE version is worth exactly that. Its not a perfect algorithm. Looking at the actual list of completed auctions, the TG-16 version is worth $300-700.

[vestcoat]

Interesting. I wonder how this is going to work out for him. I've said it elsewhere (I'm far more active at www.reddit.com/r/gamecollecting), but I find video games to be a very bad investment. The short argument is that a good investment should have high liquidity. In poor economic times, video games have very very poor liquidity, as people do not have discretionary income. (People often confuse disposable and discretionary.) However, resilience in poor economic times is the exact reason to have good investments.  In essence, he is banking on the continued prosperity of his economy - a bet I'd not be willing to take in the current world economic climate.

For those in it for the money, modern video games will probably be a bad investment (just like modern baseball cards, comics, action figures, and Magic Cards). It's always the "golden age" (in this case 8-and-16-bit) stuff that people ignored and abused as kids that does well. Also, entertainment always does well in depressions (as does alcohol). The Great Recession ('08-09) was exactly when prices really went out of control and "retro gaming" went mainstream. Unlike some folks here, I don't think the NEC bubble will ever burst (unfortunately), but neither do I subscribe to the ebay price guide or the belief that my possessions don't depreciate in value.

There is one copy of MC available on the public market right now. You have to be a little bit resourceful to find it, but it's there and the price, while outlandish by our standards, would probably be reasonable by yours, considering its condition.

Interesting. I found one PCE copy available (which I don't count, but some might.) Just because I defend eBay prices, doesn't mean I'm willing to pay them. I don't know if you are willing to share it, but I'd be curious to see it. Also, wolfsaq2 would probably love to see it as well - and would possibly be happy to pay the price. The poor guy just wants to finish his TG set.

Sorry. Not to give you the high hat, but I think collectors should be resourceful and that if someone really wants it, they'll find it. This particular copy has been mentioned on the forums a couple of times, so I'm not keeping a secret from anybody. I don't know Wolfsaq2, but I don't have much sympathy for members that come around solely to cross-post the same WTB's here and on a bunch of other forums. There are a lot of members here who are both much more active and who've been looking for a copy much longer than he has.

[Black Tiger]

DarkKobold, as I mentioned in my posts that got you so excited, we were here while all of this bullshit began to evolve. Everything you demand proof of is documented in this forum. Magical Chase's instant jump in price is legendary around here. People sitting on   multiple copies of "rare" games like Magical Chase, crooked sellers with multiple accounts buying up everything below their gouged prices, insane lies used to mislead buyers... all the crap that has led to an insulated premium market for noobs which coexists along side the "give-it-all-to-me-as-proof!" market is detailed right here.

Before you jumped in to make a fool of yourself, I actually described your ridiculous argument. Why would we help someone like you scoop up some of these killer deals? We have everything to lose and nothing to gain. We aren't arrogant and don't need to bust our asses to prove anything to someone who demands we hand over our games to them.

If we're a pack of liars, then why even try arguing with us? Why don't you let us get back to paying top end eBay prices and then lying about?

[DarkKobold]

For those in it for the money, modern video games will probably be a bad investment (just like modern baseball cards, comics, action figures, and Magic Cards). It's always the "golden age" (in this case 8-and-16-bit) stuff that people ignored and abused as kids that does well. Also, entertainment always does well in depressions (as does alcohol). The Great Recession ('08-09) was exactly when prices really went out of control and "retro gaming" went mainstream. Unlike some folks here, I don't think the NEC bubble will ever burst (unfortunately), but neither do I subscribe to the ebay price guide or the belief that my possessions don't depreciate in value.

Funny you should mention MtG. I had a P9 set I put on Ebay about 7 years ago. The price on that has now more than doubled. I was sure that MTG was going to die soon, and I'd better get the most I could out of my cards while I could. Oh well.

So, I disagree with your statement that video games grew during the '08 recession. This chart agrees with me:

http://videogames.pricecharting.com/

However, this chart agrees with you:

http://www.whitehutchinson.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/Share-graph.jpg

As a scientist, I have to present both sets of data I found That said, I feel like video game prices are spiking now, because the American economy is recovering. Times of recession, people need to spend what they have on essentials, and video games are far from that. We'd need to dive into the data further to really get at whether recessions increase or decrease video game spending.

As far as the NEC stuff goes, I don't know if you can call it a bubble (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_bubble). It is a rare game system that many video game collectors (like myself) didn't get a chance to own, and therefore are willing to pay a premium to finally have it. With more game collectors entering the market than leaving, prices are naturally going to rise. For it to be a bubble, it would have to be traded in far higher volume, and there would have to be some sort of corrective measure to restore "equilibrium pricing"

Sorry. Not to give you the high hat, but I think collectors should be resourceful and that if someone really wants it, they'll find it. This particular copy has been mentioned on the forums a couple of times, so I'm not keeping a secret from anybody. I don't know Wolfsaq2, but I don't have much sympathy for members that come around solely to cross-post the same WTB's here and on a bunch of other forums. There are a lot of members here who are both much more active and who've been looking for a copy much longer than he has.

That's cool. I wouldn't be buying it anyway. I'm just curious what they are asking.

[Bernie]

Is this not the guy that joined after finding that awesome Craigslist lot of TG-16?  What's his deal?  

EDIT:  Think I got DK mixed up with another new member.  Anyway, attacking the members here that actually give to the community aint kool man.     Saying folks are retarded for feeling a certain way, ect.  We feel the way we feel about eBay prices for the exact reasons Black Tiger mentioned.

[vestcoat]

So, I disagree with your statement that video games grew during the '08 recession. This chart agrees with me:

http://videogames.pricecharting.com/

However, this chart agrees with you:

http://www.whitehutchinson.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/Share-graph.jpg

I wouldn't be surprised if other systems caught on a year or two later, but 2008 was the year for Turbo gouging on ebay and CIB noob collectors on PCEFX. IIRC, it was the year MC first doubled in price, thanks to one man. TZD shut down around the same time and the Virtual Console ramped up. The last good deals at Gameexpress and mom-and-pop online dealers were gobbled up, and BIN listings really started to surpass auctions.

Until 2008, every Turbo game could be found for less than $100, with the exceptions of Magical Chase and Dynastic Hero... and maybe Bonk 3 SCD and Super Air Zonk if you didn't have friends.

Anyone know when those retrogaming magazines started coming out? Or when Racketboy started its "rare and valuable" guides?

[DarkKobold]

Is this not the guy that joined after finding that awesome Craigslist lot of TG-16?  What's his deal? 

EDIT:  Think I got DK mixed up with another new member.  Anyway, attacking the members here that actually give to the community aint kool man.     Saying folks are retarded for feeling a certain way, ect.  We feel the way we feel about eBay prices for the exact reasons Black Tiger mentioned.

My deal is that I'm a big free market believer. I believe I've done a good job of toning down the anti-reseller rhetoric at my main hangout, /r/gamecollecting. It has always gotten under my skin when someone says "This is worth $X, and everyone who thinks it is worth more is wrong." This, to me, is the epitome of arrogance. Any item is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it, and it is an attempt to exert control over other people by calling people gougers for charging what they want to get for an item.

I'm actually the one that got the awesome estate sale. However, as I said before, I was a big turbo-fan (emulator only) before I got that lot. (Tool-Assisted Speedruns no one here cares about.)

Also, I actually only called BlackTiger's posting arrogant, not the man himself.

[BlueBMW]

I like milkshakes... and cookies.

Good news, I dont think the x68000 bubble will hit for many more years!

[PunkicCyborg]

Wow DarkKobold your posts are almost all in sales threads and about collecting. You act so high and mighty but i'd like to see some posts in the high scores threads, clears, or participation in the completing all turbo games.
Do you even play your stuff or just let them sit on your shelf calculating their value, how much you paid and salivating to completed ebay listings?
I haven't been into turbo since day one but I will tell you this, those prices in BlackTigers list DO happen regularly in this forum and will continue to do so as long as there are true turbo GAMERS and this place doesn't just get run over by flippers and gougers like yourself.

[Firebomber7]

I hate to say this, but I kind of agree with DarkKobold on a number of points...

 

[TheClash603]

Also, there are plenty of people here who have been awesome to me. I've gotten good trades, good deals, and etc.  I like it here, because I do get good deals. How do I know they are deals? Because they are below eBay prices! I have no intention to resell. In fact, I've been hesitant to sell any of my extra turbo-stuff (despite numerous offers). I'd rather keep it to trade and build my collection.

I make a killing buying and selling off craigslist. If craigslist were FMV, that would be impossible.

Perhaps forum members should stop giving this guy any deals, considering he immediately follows up by saying he is exploiting us by flipping his Craigslist finds at higher prices?  It is one thing to do it, it is another thing to brag about doing it and to expect to continue to be treated well.  I wasn't going to butt in, because I think pricing is a funny issue that is subjective and in the eye of the beholder, but this rubbed me the wrong way.

[DarkKobold]

Also, there are plenty of people here who have been awesome to me. I've gotten good trades, good deals, and etc.  I like it here, because I do get good deals. How do I know they are deals? Because they are below eBay prices! I have no intention to resell. In fact, I've been hesitant to sell any of my extra turbo-stuff (despite numerous offers). I'd rather keep it to trade and build my collection.

I make a killing buying and selling off craigslist. If craigslist were FMV, that would be impossible.

Perhaps forum members should stop giving this guy any deals, considering he immediately follows up by saying he is exploiting us by flipping his Craigslist finds at higher prices?  It is one thing to do it, it is another thing to brag about doing it and to expect to continue to be treated well.  I wasn't going to butt in, because I think pricing is a funny issue that is subjective and in the eye of the beholder, but this rubbed me the wrong way.

How do you have it quoted that "I don't sell turbo stuff," and then go "How dare he sell the turbo stuff he gets here!"

Its in your quote of my text! I'm not flipping things I get here, you even quoted that factoid!