Author Topic: Could the TG16 / PCE handle Donkey Kong Country?  (Read 861 times)

Tatsujin

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Re: Could the TG16 / PCE handle Donkey Kong Country?
« Reply #15 on: August 06, 2012, 10:01:02 PM »
Someone explain to me why the turbo the colors would have to be downgraded doesnt it have the ability to show 512 colors. Sorry im not up to date on the technical system specs like alot of you guys are. It for sure would need an arcade card.

it actually can display something like 16 palettes of each 15 colors plus one shared color = 241 for each the background and the sprites = max. of 482 colors on screen. but to achieve that as ingame graphics of an action game would be kind of difficult, or sort of.

again the techies are asked here :)
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Arkhan

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Re: Could the TG16 / PCE handle Donkey Kong Country?
« Reply #16 on: August 07, 2012, 03:21:21 AM »
That game has aged terribly. Not as bad as nearly every PS1 game, but still...such a one trick pony, DKC. Its really really smooth and...that's just about it. All the soul of a cheap set of 22" rims. Revolting.
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[Fri 19:34]<nectarsis> been wanting to try that one for awhile now Ope
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nodtveidt

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Re: Could the TG16 / PCE handle Donkey Kong Country?
« Reply #17 on: August 07, 2012, 04:06:10 AM »
To be more specific about the colors... and this is especially true with that gradient bullshit... the SNES has a 5/5/5 RGB scheme, whereas the Turbo and Genesis both have a 3/3/3 RGB color scheme. The extra bits available to the SNES give it a lot more flexibility, and some games took advantage with all the sickening gradients. Remapping colors for the PC from the SNES isn't difficult though... quite often, it's just a matter of slightly raising or lowering individual palette entries to fit into the approximated colorspace for the PCE (offsets of 36.43 in 24 bit colorspace). Screenshots from SNES emulators seem to always have colors with an offset of 16 or 17 in the 24 bit colorspace, and rarely do SNES games use shades that are so close together than remapping produces identical color results. You really only start to notice it when dealing with, again, those nasty gradients... but then, you can also "cheat" a bit there and use dithering between the bands to achieve similar results.

Example: say one color in the SNES palette comes out to be 33,66,99 in 24 bit colorspace (16+17 = 33, then multiply). The 33 is raised to 36, the 66 is raised to 72, and the 99 is raised to 108 or 109 (depending on how strict you want to be). In some cases, depending on how it looks, you might actually lower a color rather than raising it; it's not usually the case, but it does sometimes look better that way. In any event, this is something you generally want to do manually rather than letting an automated tool do the work since eyeballing the end result is of critical importance.

esteban

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Re: Could the TG16 / PCE handle Donkey Kong Country?
« Reply #18 on: August 07, 2012, 04:36:02 AM »
To be more specific about the colors... and this is especially true with that gradient bullshit... the SNES has a 5/5/5 RGB scheme, whereas the Turbo and Genesis both have a 3/3/3 RGB color scheme. The extra bits available to the SNES give it a lot more flexibility, and some games took advantage with all the sickening gradients. Remapping colors for the PC from the SNES isn't difficult though... quite often, it's just a matter of slightly raising or lowering individual palette entries to fit into the approximated colorspace for the PCE (offsets of 36.43 in 24 bit colorspace). Screenshots from SNES emulators seem to always have colors with an offset of 16 or 17 in the 24 bit colorspace, and rarely do SNES games use shades that are so close together than remapping produces identical color results. You really only start to notice it when dealing with, again, those nasty gradients... but then, you can also "cheat" a bit there and use dithering between the bands to achieve similar results.

Example: say one color in the SNES palette comes out to be 33,66,99 in 24 bit colorspace (16+17 = 33, then multiply). The 33 is raised to 36, the 66 is raised to 72, and the 99 is raised to 108 or 109 (depending on how strict you want to be). In some cases, depending on how it looks, you might actually lower a color rather than raising it; it's not usually the case, but it does sometimes look better that way. In any event, this is something you generally want to do manually rather than letting an automated tool do the work since eyeballing the end result is of critical importance.


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Lilgrafx

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Re: Could the TG16 / PCE handle Donkey Kong Country?
« Reply #19 on: August 07, 2012, 05:46:34 AM »
That game has aged terribly. Not as bad as nearly every PS1 game, but still...such a one trick pony, DKC. Its really really smooth and...that's just about it. All the soul of a cheap set of 22" rims. Revolting.

I'd disagree with that, is has very responsive controls, good music, and pretty stellar platforming.

HercTNT

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Re: Could the TG16 / PCE handle Donkey Kong Country?
« Reply #20 on: August 07, 2012, 06:00:30 AM »
I have a love hate relationship with DKC. The graphics are top notch, the sound is amazing, and the controls are spot on. I'm in complete agreement though that its a one trick pony. After my first playthrough i was unable to pick it up again. The frustration factor is so high, i found myself hating the game, but pushing myself along just to finish it. The fun went away quickly.

Black Tiger

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Re: Could the TG16 / PCE handle Donkey Kong Country?
« Reply #21 on: August 07, 2012, 06:02:56 AM »
That game has aged terribly. Not as bad as nearly every PS1 game, but still...such a one trick pony, DKC. Its really really smooth and...that's just about it. All the soul of a cheap set of 22" rims. Revolting.

I'd disagree with that, is has very responsive controls, good music, and pretty stellar platforming.

I think that the artwork/designs look terrible and is what immediately became dated. Unfortunately, it's the only thing they've kept to this day. An example of art done right in a similar style without being soulless, is the original Sonic the Hedgehog. I was disappointed as soon as Sonic 2 came out that they had began evolving towards a more realistic and unoriginal style.
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MottZilla

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Re: Could the TG16 / PCE handle Donkey Kong Country?
« Reply #22 on: August 07, 2012, 06:25:28 AM »
Whenever people ask if you could have some game from one platform on another platform they never seem to specify anything after that. Do you mean exactly the same? Almost like what you see with 360 and PS3 games? Or do you just mean more like say, Rock 'n Roll Racing which appeared on both SNES and Genesis (or Mortal Kombat, SF2, etc.)? DKC has simple gameplay that takes advantage of the SNES PPU and SPC chip to offer a good platformer with very nice graphics and audio. So if you don't care about graphics and audio changes, sure the PCE could do it.

If you wanted minimal downgrades you'd want to use the SuperGrafx and the CDROM. Either using a HuCard with alot of ROM while running music from the CD or by using the Arcade Card. You'd still lose any color blending type effects, like I think Squaks the Parrot with the Flashlight effect. But gameplay wise the game could work. Again though really the game was made to show off the SNES PPU and SPC chips. And it does.

For other games it all just depends how much you want to change them to get them on different hardware. Really between the PCE, SNES, and Genesis none of them are a clear winner above any of the rest. They are all different and have different ways of doing things and some things they are better at than the others. Programming wise I do like the Genesis for the 68000 which has a big address space. SNES has alot of addressable memory too but it is a bit less nice with the 65816's system of banks but you can get used to that. PCE just has the 64K so you're going to be banking plenty. But the CPU should be much faster than the SNES which I do like. SNES is nice for having a huge 128K worth of RAM which Genesis coming in second with only 64K and poor PCE in last with 8K. It really makes me wish the DUO had not just integrated the Super CD-ROM but also the SuperGrafx. The PCE seems more complete that way.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2012, 06:29:13 AM by MottZilla »

Nando

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Re: Could the TG16 / PCE handle Donkey Kong Country?
« Reply #23 on: August 07, 2012, 06:40:42 AM »

I think that the artwork/designs look terrible and is what immediately became dated.

Pre-rendered SGI look was the shiznizzle back then.....CO CO COMBO BREAKER!

But it did have that "plastic" look to it. So shiny!

The SNES benefited from all the artist and dev's that cut their teeth on the PCE.  ;)

geise

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Re: Could the TG16 / PCE handle Donkey Kong Country?
« Reply #24 on: August 07, 2012, 07:04:18 AM »
Well back in 95 people still didn't really know how to properly light a 3d object.  Plus, there really wasn't a great deal of options either.  I'm sure they were using Alias Wavefront or Softimage back then.  Even with those programs lighting was still fairly basic.  So most had this crazy glossy/shiny plastic look to it.  As for the pce hadling it, old rove pretty much seemed to answer that question.  Mine however is why would you want the pce to handle DKC?

esteban

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Re: Could the TG16 / PCE handle Donkey Kong Country?
« Reply #25 on: August 07, 2012, 10:17:44 AM »
...why would you want the pce to handle DKC?


Exactly. We have enough trash on the PCE. Why add more?




« Last Edit: August 07, 2012, 10:19:26 AM by esteban »
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Lilgrafx

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Re: Could the TG16 / PCE handle Donkey Kong Country?
« Reply #26 on: August 07, 2012, 11:47:29 AM »
Put a pile of shit under them and label it SEGA and you've got it.

HercTNT

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Re: Could the TG16 / PCE handle Donkey Kong Country?
« Reply #27 on: August 07, 2012, 01:14:52 PM »
LOL go LIL, now tell us how you really feel :) I like sega, but funny stuff all the same.

SignOfZeta

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Re: Could the TG16 / PCE handle Donkey Kong Country?
« Reply #28 on: August 07, 2012, 01:17:23 PM »
I love Sega, Nintendo, and NEC. I just think DKC is a flash in the pan. Not only is nowhere near as good as World or Yoshi's Island, its not even as good as Rayman or Sonic 3.

f*ck, it's probably better than Vectorman. That's about all I can say for it.

Bernie

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Re: Could the TG16 / PCE handle Donkey Kong Country?
« Reply #29 on: August 07, 2012, 01:32:18 PM »
I love Sega, Nintendo, and NEC. I just think DKC is a flash in the pan. Not only is nowhere near as good as World or Yoshi's Island, its not even as good as Rayman or Sonic 3.

f*ck, it's probably better than Vectorman. That's about all I can say for it.

Have to admit..  Not too big on the DKC games either..  I have all three, and most likely going to let em go soon.  Just happened to get them all in a bundle.  DKC 1 is OK at best, IMO.  I know a lot of people really liked them a lot tho, so I cant say they are bad games..  Just not games for Bernie.