Street Fighter 2 Champion Edition

[ProfessorProfessorson]

(1) The cost of national marketing campaigns in the U.S. was exponentially higher than national campaigns in Japan. It would have taken a shitload of $$$ to replicate what NEC did in Japan. Even then, Sega and Nintendo pumped tons of $$$ into North America, so NEC/TTi would always have come up short (IMHO). I fear that TG-16 might have died an earlier death if NEC had dumped millions of $$$'s into advertising that didn't generate radically improved sales (to offset the costs).

Yes but you're missing two points, first off the US had roughly three times the population and it was far less densely distributed. Throwing more money at advertising alone wouldn't have improved the situation. Also you're looking only at the NEC era, by TTI time they had settled into catering to a niche rather than going head to head with Sega and Nintendo to put a console in every American household and no longer had the resources that were used during the NEC Home Electronics USA era.

Yeah the thing too is the actual marketing itself that was being done was just weak. The comic book related ads just came off as generic. The early TV ads were well done, and everything done after, including ads in mags and comics, should have been done similar to the original TV ads. But like I said, with no major games or a large library to brag about, marketing more wouldn't have mattered too much anyway. Games sell hardware, not the other way around, and you can only milk Splatterhouse, Bloody Wolf, Ninja Spirit, and Bonk for only so long.

[DragonmasterDan]

Yeah the thing too is the actual marketing itself that was being done was just weak. The comic book related ads just came off as generic. The early TV ads were well done, and everything done after, including ads in mags and comics, should have been done similar to the original TV ads. But like I said, with no major games or a large library to brag about, marketing more wouldn't have mattered too much anyway. Games sell hardware, not the other way around, and you can only milk Splatterhouse, Bloody Wolf, Ninja Spirit, and Bonk for only so long.

It seems like 1991 was a bad year for releases in the US as well, as Sega was launching Sonic and the SNES was being released NEC put out far less games than the previous year.

Here's a list I have from 1990 releases and then 1991 releases. A few of these might be off but I believe it's mostly accurate. That huge dropoff in US HuCard releases made it look like the Turbo was dying while the Genesis was catching fire that year and the SNES exploded into the marketplace. Had a stronger 1991 library of releases made it out, it would have been more successful.

1990
Aero Blasters
Andre Panza Kick Boxing
Battle Royale
Bloody Wolf
Bonk's Adventure
BoxyBoy
Bravoman
Chew Man Fu
Cratermaze
Cyber Core
Devils Crush
Double Dungeons
Dragons Curse
Drop off
Final Lap Twin
Jack Nicklaus's Turbo Golf
JJ & Jeff
King of Casino
Klax
Neutopia
Ninja Spirit
Pac-Pand
Psychosis
Raiden
Sonic Spike Volleyball
Super Star Soldier
Super Volleyball
Timeball
TV Sports Football
Veigues Tactical Gladiator

1991
Bomberman
Bonk's Revenge
Cadash
Champions Forever Boxing
Davis Cup Tennis
Impossamole
Legendary Axe II
Parasol Stars
Silent Debuggers
Sinistron
Talespin
Turrican
TV Sports Basketball
Yo Bro

[SignOfZeta]

I honestly believe that the Turbo Grafx 16 was totally f*cked from day one. Nothing could have saved it.

I agree %100 that the earlier marketing attempts had much more impact. The later stuff was bush league crap. In all seriousness though, you don't need a shitload of ads to sell a good product to an audience that is willing to buy it. You can just brainwash them for a while, but eventually they will move on if wasn't something they really wanted.

Have you EVER seen an add on TV for a Ferrari? I'm pretty sure they don't exist, yet they sell every car they make, often times before they are even built. Chrysler on the other hand has to pay Eminem to be in their ad, and still people aren't happy with the things.

And before some a$$hole accuses me of hating NEC systems, I'm not saying the TG was bad, but it really wasn't what people here wanted, not after the SNES was released. Sega had EA, Sonic, and the f*cking "blood code", the SNES had Mario and F Zero and Contra III, NEC had...I don't even know. What could NEC have done that would have possibly been as interesting to Americans in the early 90s and those things? I just wasn't going to happen.

And think, while the PCE was much bigger in Japan, the Mega Drive was a huge failure. If the MD was as big in Japan as it was here (ie: if they loved Hockey and really shitty fighting games as much as Americans did) would the PCE have done as well? There are only so many fans, and so many dollars to go around. Perhaps two successful systems was just the maximum possible.

[geise]

Maybe people just "thought" they knew what they wanted and just got an SNES cause "everyone" else had one.  Most have never even touched a tg-16 let alont a turbo duo.  NEC just wasn't a household name and the CD system was just way to expensive with so few games.

As awesome as SF2 CE is on the PC-Engine it was a little to late for it to really be a game changer.  Now if it was regular SF2 and out before the SNES/SFC version that might've been a different story.

[SignOfZeta]

I absolutely positively wanted a SNES. No f*cking doubt. I also wanted a Duo. I had both, but it was more than obvious to me which was the fringe system.

[geise]

So true.  That's why I loved my Turbo Duo so much.  I knew at the time I wasn't missing out on something so amazing.

[turboswimbz]

I am going to say that all these things played a part.  There just wasn't enough support here.  I personally look at 3 things.
price
Smaller less known game library
distrubtion and logistics late in it's life

[KnightWarrior]

Just remember Nintendo Brain Washed every kid in America thinking the NES and SNES is cool system to have

[SignOfZeta]

Just remember Nintendo Brain Washed every kid in America thinking the NES and SNES is cool system to have

Yes. There is no way they were actually having fun playing those systems or anything like that.

[KnightWarrior]

Does anyone have a Manual Scan of this game?

replacementdocs doesn't have it

[vestcoat]

you read Japanese?

[KnightWarrior]

Nope, I just want it

[esteban]

(1) The cost of national marketing campaigns in the U.S. was exponentially higher than national campaigns in Japan. It would have taken a shitload of $$$ to replicate what NEC did in Japan. Even then, Sega and Nintendo pumped tons of $$$ into North America, so NEC/TTi would always have come up short (IMHO). I fear that TG-16 might have died an earlier death if NEC had dumped millions of $$$'s into advertising that didn't generate radically improved sales (to offset the costs).

Yes but you're missing two points, first off the US had roughly three times the population and it was far less densely distributed. Throwing more money at advertising alone wouldn't have improved the situation. Also you're looking only at the NEC era, by TTI time they had settled into catering to a niche rather than going head to head with Sega and Nintendo to put a console in every American household and no longer had the resources that were used during the NEC Home Electronics USA era.

Yeah the thing too is the actual marketing itself that was being done was just weak. The comic book related ads just came off as generic. The early TV ads were well done, and everything done after, including ads in mags and comics, should have been done similar to the original TV ads. But like I said, with no major games or a large library to brag about, marketing more wouldn't have mattered too much anyway. Games sell hardware, not the other way around, and you can only milk Splatterhouse, Bloody Wolf, Ninja Spirit, and Bonk for only so long.

I totally agree, Prof. Software sells hardware. NEC/TTi needed a solid stable of titles to even have a prayer.

I suppose NEC thought folks reading comic books were 6-7 years old and made the comics for this demographic? I've seen a Bonk and Splatterhouse comic....can't think of any others...
 
DragonmasterDan, we are in agreement as well (although, initially, I thought you had misconstrued my stance on advertising).

1990
Aero Blasters
Andre Panza Kick Boxing
Battle Royale
Bloody Wolf
Bonk's Adventure
BoxyBoy
Bravoman
Chew Man Fu
Cratermaze
Cyber Core
Devils Crush
Double Dungeons
Dragons Curse
Drop off
Final Lap Twin
Jack Nicklaus's Turbo Golf
JJ & Jeff
King of Casino
Klax
Neutopia
Ninja Spirit
Pac-Pand
Psychosis
Raiden
Sonic Spike Volleyball
Super Star Soldier
Super Volleyball
Timeball
TV Sports Football
Veigues Tactical Gladiator

1991
Bomberman
Bonk's Revenge
Cadash
Champions Forever Boxing
Davis Cup Tennis
Impossamole
Legendary Axe II
Parasol Stars
Silent Debuggers
Sinistron
Talespin
Turrican
TV Sports Basketball
Yo Bro

This is an incredibly intriguing point that folks do not bring up! We have very little data available to us (actual sales data), so the release schedule is one of the few solid pieces of data at our disposal. If memory serves, the CD-ROM release schedule was consistently weak during the life of the TG-16 (later, with the release of the TurboDuo, there may have been more emphasis on the CD format).

If CD releases were scant in 1991, coupled with the threadbare list of 1991 HuCard titles....then we have the appearance of a moribund console.

Maybe people just "thought" they knew what they wanted and just got an SNES cause "everyone" else had one.  Most have never even touched a tg-16 let alont a turbo duo.  NEC just wasn't a household name and the CD system was just way to expensive with so few games.

As awesome as SF2 CE is on the PC-Engine it was a little to late for it to really be a game changer.  Now if it was regular SF2 and out before the SNES/SFC version that might've been a different story.

I mentioned "word of mouth" in my initial post and I think it plays a tremendously important role in determining the success of a platform.

[Chuplayer]

This still isn't as bad as what happened with Fatal Fury Special.

What happened with Fatal Fury Special?

[Black Tiger]

I honestly believe that the Turbo Grafx 16 was totally f*cked from day one. Nothing could have saved it.

I agree %100 that the earlier marketing attempts had much more impact. The later stuff was bush league crap. In all seriousness though, you don't need a shitload of ads to sell a good product to an audience that is willing to buy it. You can just brainwash them for a while, but eventually they will move on if wasn't something they really wanted.

Have you EVER seen an add on TV for a Ferrari? I'm pretty sure they don't exist, yet they sell every car they make, often times before they are even built. Chrysler on the other hand has to pay Eminem to be in their ad, and still people aren't happy with the things.

And before some a$$hole accuses me of hating NEC systems, I'm not saying the TG was bad, but it really wasn't what people here wanted, not after the SNES was released. Sega had EA, Sonic, and the f*cking "blood code", the SNES had Mario and F Zero and Contra III, NEC had...I don't even know. What could NEC have done that would have possibly been as interesting to Americans in the early 90s and those things? I just wasn't going to happen.

And think, while the PCE was much bigger in Japan, the Mega Drive was a huge failure. If the MD was as big in Japan as it was here (ie: if they loved Hockey and really shitty fighting games as much as Americans did) would the PCE have done as well? There are only so many fans, and so many dollars to go around. Perhaps two successful systems was just the maximum possible.

If things were done differently from day one, then everything would be different. Your fantasy scenarios always include the TurboGrafx-16/Genesis/SNES as being the exact same if things were done different. But if things were done different, then Sega and Nintendo and the rest of reality would have been altered. If the TurboGrafx-16 had been handled as well as possible, Sonic would not exist because the Genesis/Mega Drive would not have lasted long enough. Sega might have continued their work towards Sonic and published for PC Engine. The SNES would have totally bombed, since Contra III, Turbo Ghouls 'n Ghosts, Street Fighter II, Dragon Warrior V - VII, Final Fantasy IV - VII and all the other big third party games would have all been on TurboGrafx-16. Plus, the SNES games would look pretty weak against HuCards that used the TURBO FX chip to do the kinds of 3D graphics you'd never see in SNES games. Super Mario All Stars would be Nintendo's first PCE game, released in 1995, after they existed the hardware business.

A successful from the start TurboGrafx-16 would have radically altered the 32-bit generation, since the Saturn and Nintendo 64 would not exist as Sega and Nintendo would only be software publishers who stuck by the TurboGrafx-32 after supporting the TG-16 through 1998. Sony's botched attempt to sell a console (with no previous input from Nintendo) would bomb so bad that Sony got out of the video game business altogether and hasn't even published games ever since.



Sega was broke compared to NEC/Hudson. If the Genresis didn't take off and the TG-16 quickly pulled ahead of the NES, then Sega would be out the hardware business very quickly. Nintendo would immediately lose its grip on third parties long before the SNES was released in our timeline, if the NES/Famicom had died out early in the face of the worldwide success of the TG-16/PCE. They might not have even bothered with the SNES at all.

It is very easy to see how the TG-16 could have dominated the market. All that rich NEC had to do was beat the poor Sega and everything else would have played out in NEC's favor.