Street Fighter 2 Champion Edition

[MottZilla]

You know there are alot of factors that helped determine winners and losers. Sega's success with the Genesis in the US was definitely helped by good timing, marketing, and most definitely Sonic The Hedgehog both as a game and as a Mascot.

I do think that the TurboGrafx 16 was doomed, maybe not from the outset. But unlike in Japan the prices definitely made a big difference. The PC-Engine really shines with CD-ROM games and that technology just was too expensive for the market in North America at the time. The Sega CD certainly wasn't a success. And they had things going for them. Sega was hot at the time. While the line-up of games may not have been AAA, the price is most likely the real reason it wasn't near as popular as the base system.

I like the PCE but without things playing out quite differently I think they were doomed to fail in North America. This idea about if Sega had gone down and made room for NEC may have helped but I still think the Super Nintendo would have been #1, and probably would have dominated the generation. Anyway, you can speculate about these things forever.

About the original topic, Street Fighter II' was definitely not worth the cost of bringing to the TG16. There were plenty of other games way better they should have tried bringing to North America instead. Castlevania is definitely one. Gradius II might have been another. Probably a good number of HuCards that should be on such a list too. Tiger Heli for one.

[SignOfZeta]

Regarding the issue of Sonic and marketing:

The idea that marketing made Sonic is disingenuous bullshit, basically the video game equivelant of politicians blaming the media. Ads help sell things, but in the end people buy what they like. Sonic the Hedgehog was an AMAZING looking game for the time and extremely fluid. It flowed, as Bruce said, "like water".

When you put Sonic 1 (or the second one, Sonic 2 pack-ins sold more systems, probably) next to Super Mario Word it makes Mario look like a f*cking NES game. If Mario World is the begining of 16-bit and Yoshi's Island is the end, Sonic is the stepping stone that got us there. It raised the bar enormously.

If I was to take a cynical look at Sega's success with the Genesis I would mention EA and Mortal Kombat 1. EA and MK sold a lot of Genesis 2s, even in the later years when there was no benefit, and sometimes detriment, to the Sega versions. The train was in motion. Meanwhile, Japan, where they hated MK and didn't give much of a shit about EA sports, the 16-bit Sega years were as dark as the NEC years in the US.

[DragonmasterDan]

Regarding the issue of Sonic and marketing:

The idea that marketing made Sonic is disingenuous bullshit, basically the video game equivelant of politicians blaming the media. Ads help sell things, but in the end people buy what they like. Sonic the Hedgehog was an AMAZING looking game for the time and extremely fluid. It flowed, as Bruce said, "like water".

When you put Sonic 1 (or the second one, Sonic 2 pack-ins sold more systems, probably) next to Super Mario Word it makes Mario look like a f*cking NES game. If Mario World is the begining of 16-bit and Yoshi's Island is the end, Sonic is the stepping stone that got us there. It raised the bar enormously.

If I was to take a cynical look at Sega's success with the Genesis I would mention EA and Mortal Kombat 1. EA and MK sold a lot of Genesis 2s, even in the later years when there was no benefit, and sometimes detriment, to the Sega versions. The train was in motion. Meanwhile, Japan, where they hated MK and didn't give much of a shit about EA sports, the 16-bit Sega years were as dark as the NEC years in the US.

I'm by no means saying Sonic wasn't a great game, but how it was marketed was every bit as important as the product itself.

[SignOfZeta]

That makes you sound like a PCE fanboy that can't except losing the console wars.

"Oh, they bought something other than [insert prefered console]? They must have been brainwashed then."

[DragonmasterDan]

That makes you sound like a PCE fanboy that can't except losing the console wars.

"Oh, they bought something other than [insert prefered console]? They must have been brainwashed then."

No one is saying anything about brainwashing. I'm simply saying Sega did a far better job of raising public awareness of their system, did a better job of promoting their system by creating a Sonic bundle to replace the original Altered Beast pack in fairly short order after Sonic was released, and made their product look cool with a fantastic advertising campaign.

[esteban]

Hany whispers, "Sonic can dust my doilies anytime he wants to."

[Black Tiger]

Non-fanboy wording:

"Oh, they bought something other than [insert prefered console]? They must have marketed it better then."

[SignOfZeta]

Maybe I'm projecting myself onto others. To me, anyone who buys something just because they saw an add for it is a f*cking tool.

Having the Duo at Kmart, Target, etc probably would have helped more. I mean, an ad is one thing, but I'm pretty sure than at least %30 of America was living in a towns where you couldn't even buy a Turboduo. In my town the only place to get one was at EB, which was in a one year old mall. If that mall hadn't been built, I would have had to mail order it or drive almost an hour to get one.

Keep in mind that back then EB wasn't the ghetto GameStop is now. You could buy Neo games off the shelf there back then.

[HercTNT]

An if you don't see an add for it, how would you know it exists? marketing fuels the corporate engine across the world.

[SignOfZeta]

I'm pretty sure consumer products and money existed centuries before advertising. Just because you've never bought a single product without first seeing an ad for it doesn't mean everyone works that way.

That must be why the Dairy Council started running ads for milk in the 80s. People lost confidence in any product not mercilously hyped on television.

How did you find out about milk, btw?

I've never seen an ad on TV for Snap On tools, Neo Geo, Momo steering wheels, G Shock watches, or John Deere lawn tractors, or any of the iPhone games I have, yet I own all of these things. I also have a Chihuahua, two space heaters, a bunch of laserdisc players, some plastic model kits, a soldering iron, and several musical instruments I've never seen ads for.

In fact, since I almost never watch any TV it's amazing I manage to spend any money at all!

An if you don't see an add for it, how would you know it exists? marketing fuels the corporate engine across the world.

[HercTNT]

I don't disagree with this. i just think that advertising has its place. not everything is a household name. if you saw an add for bonks revenge in a gaming magazine, and it hyped you up to buy it, would you still be a tool?  After all, better and more advertising could have helped out nec at least.

[DragonmasterDan]

Maybe I'm projecting myself onto others. To me, anyone who buys something just because they saw an add for it is a f*cking tool.

Keep in mind, the target audience for video games at that time was mostly children. They care a lot more about what's cool and what's well liked than most adults do. I don't think that makes them a tool, it just makes them children.

Having the Duo at Kmart, Target, etc probably would have helped more. I mean, an ad is one thing, but I'm pretty sure than at least %30 of America was living in a towns where you couldn't even buy a Turboduo. In my town the only place to get one was at EB, which was in a one year old mall. If that mall hadn't been built, I would have had to mail order it or drive almost an hour to get one.

Right, but Sonic was a year before the Turbo Duo, under NEC Home Electronics the TurboGrafx 16 had a wider web of retailers than TTI did with the Duo.

Keep in mind that back then EB wasn't the ghetto GameStop is now. You could buy Neo games off the shelf there back then.

You could do that at some Toys R Us's as well (and the Neo-Geo Gold console configuration).

[DragonmasterDan]

In fact, since I almost never watch any TV it's amazing I manage to spend any money at all!

TV isn't as integral a part of American life as it was 20 years ago. The internet, the increased popularity of video games among many other things have dropped TV viewership down from what it was years ago when there were fewer entertainment outlets. The fact that there's more channels, ondemand options and netflix from 20 years ago has further led to a decline. TV ads had a much bigger impact then than they do today.

[KnightWarrior]

Was there any plans for a 6 button Joystick for the PC Engine??

[DragonmasterDan]

Was there any plans for a 6 button Joystick for the PC Engine??

There were some third party six button joysticks for PC engine.