HELP: Sloppy & Precise Release Dates for North American software

[DragonmasterDan]

Heh, last week I was recording an episode of the as-yet-unreleased successor to my old podcast, Game Face Radio, and I said something almost exactly identical to what you just wrote there. I specifically mentioned "Sonic Twosday". Crazy.

Yep, I got a Sonic 2 T-shirt for preordering it at Software Etc.

I also remember, "Mortal Monday".

Back then I remember these as being unique since I was always hearing about how Dragon Quest release dates were such a huge deal in Japan and how here in the US you rarely knew when a game was coming out until it was actually at the store. Some stores wouldn't get games until months after other stores.

I remember the time before street dates because I had trouble finding out when games I wanted would be released. I called Babbages every day for months about Zelda 3 for example, because there were no release dates for games.

[vestcoat]

Really? Huh... very interesting.  Any further proof for this?  Because those 1989 dates in the two launch titles certainly suggests that it was supposed to be out in '89 at least...

I think it at one point it was supposed to be out in 1989. I also remember reading about how when it came out there was only 3-4 games for quite a few months. I've read multiple news articles about its release, it definitely came out in 1990, not 1989.

I believe you Dan, but please cite sources. We've had lots of release-date discussions in the past and they've never gone anywhere because it always devolves into personal consumer experiences and he-said she-said.

Back to the TGCD - can a few members weigh in with their manufacture dates printed on the bottom of the CD-ROM drives? Mine was made in February 1990, but we know at least two batches of CD-ROM's were sold - one with the CD+G sample disc and box sticker, and one without.

Bantam's Encyclopedia places the TurboExpress release in the "Fall of 1990" (13), but doesn't indicate when the CD was released, other than that it was already out at press time. 

They're both pretty accurate, I haven't gone through and consulted every title screen or manual but I think this is pretty close to accurate.

Out of curiosity, where did you get the list?

Bump.

[vestcoat]

We're not able to prove a lot of this information. In that case the manual DOES say 1993 on it. It could have been released in 1994 as well. There's no way to prove a lot of this.

Did you even read my post? Like I said, Jayamine's info from Garwood places Bonk SCD in December '94.

[DragonmasterDan]

I believe you Dan, but please cite sources. We've had lots of release-date discussions in the past and they've never gone anywhere because it always devolves into personal consumer experiences and he-said she-said.

Back to the TGCD - can a few members weigh in with their manufacture dates printed on the bottom of the CD-ROM drives? Mine was made in February 1990, but we know at least two batches of CD-ROM's were sold - one with the CD+G sample disc and box sticker, and one without.

This is where we need to start getting magazine scans and other sources of info to try and get solid dates. The computer chronicles episode was from December 1990 (just before Christmas) and it mentions the system was just released and that six games were currently available with several more coming before the end of the year. That's the best source I have right now for the Turbo CD date, this is also why these dates are sloppy. Finding better sources might not be possible.

Manufacture date on my Turbo CD is 1990

Did you even read my post? Like I said, Jayamine's info from Garwood places Bonk SCD in December '94.

The Bonk 3 date has been changed to 1994.

[esteban]

OK, a brief break from the debate over the dates for certain items...

One of the reasons why I wanted the TG-16 release dates is because I added instruction manual scans to the Archives:

TurboGrafx-16 Instruction Manuals (you can sort/re-sort the table)


Back on topic:

Were HuCard and CD versions of Bonk 3 released simultaneously?

[TheClash603]

My boxed CD unit came with the CDG and it has a manufacture date of Oct 1989 and serial number 719.  I have another Oct 1989 cd unit with serial number 300 or so.  I think the third one I came across in my time was a 1991...  but I might be making that up.

[esteban]

My TG-CD was manufactured in 1989. I'll have to get the exact info and post later.  .

[A Black Falcon]

If some TGCD drives are from 1989, that leaves open the possibility for a late '89 launch, still, doesn't it?

I know manufacturing starts before the release (my model 0 Dreamcast was made before the US release, for instance), but still, it is possible.

We're not able to prove a lot of this information. In that case the manual DOES say 1993 on it. It could have been released in 1994 as well. There's no way to prove a lot of this.

Did you even read my post? Like I said, Jayamine's info from Garwood places Bonk SCD in December '94.

I'm wondering more about M&MIII and Super Air Zonk, as I said before...why are those in that 1994 list?  I mean, I thjough I'd heard that those had 1993 releases.  I've never heard that about Bonk III CD, but I thought those two were different?  Or is that actually wrong?

[Father5&JoshUnion]

My TZD flyer states that Bonk 3 CD was released in December 1994.

[DragonmasterDan]

If some TGCD drives are from 1989, that leaves open the possibility for a late '89 launch, still, doesn't it?

I know manufacturing starts before the release (my model 0 Dreamcast was made before the US release, for instance), but still, it is possible.

Pretty much all information I recall states it came out in 1990, around Summertime. Manufacturing dates are going to be a ways before a product launch. I do believe it was intended to launch in 1989 with the system, and for whatever reasons (probably retailers being wary of carrying a 400.00 add-on to an unproven system and the fact that they may have only had a couple games ready for it).

I'm wondering more about M&MIII and Super Air Zonk, as I said before...why are those in that 1994 list?  I mean, I thjough I'd heard that those had 1993 releases.  I've never heard that about Bonk III CD, but I thought those two were different?  Or is that actually wrong?

I have SAZ and M&M III, both of those say 1993 on them. I know from hearing stories of other peoples firsthand experiences that SAZ apparently hit stores in late 1993 as a few people over the years have mentioned the disappointed Christmas day expecting an awesome sequel to Air Zonk, and getting well... an adequate shooter in SAZ. I don't know about M&M III but I've always heard it was a 1993 release as well.

[vestcoat]

Esteban - those manual scans are awesome! I know a few other attempts have been made over the years, but the Turbo scene has really needed a definitive manual site for a long time. Thank you.

Clash - thanks for your date and serial number.

If some TGCD drives are from 1989, that leaves open the possibility for a late '89 launch, still, doesn't it?

Judging by how low Clash's serial # is, I'd wager that Oct '89 was the first batch and the earliest manufacture date. I want to believe that the TGCD came out in '89, but we should probably bank on Dan's sources and a 1990 date unless we find supporting evidence. October also seems like a pretty tight turn around to get units from Japan onto store shelves in time for the holidays. Does anyone know when the Duo came out? I have two U.S. Duo's dated August and October '92; I'd guess that the August units were for the Holiday launch and the October units followed in '93...

Anyway, here's a theory:
Maybe NEC was pushing for a TGCD release in '89, but it got delayed. This would explain why Fighting Street and Monster Lair were finished and copyrighted in '89 and CD-ROM's were being made, but we can't find evidence of a launch. Maybe manufacturing fell behind because the FCC demanded more shielding and a bigger case. Maybe they decided to wait for Ys Book I & II (CD is © '89, manual is © '90) because the would-be launch titles (FS and ML) weren't strong enough. Maybe the original cost was going to be even higher than $399 and they needed to bring the price down. Maybe NEC had some dumb CD+G agreement with Warner Bros. that held up production.

I'm wondering more about M&MIII and Super Air Zonk, as I said before...why are those in that 1994 list?  I mean, I thjough I'd heard that those had 1993 releases.  I've never heard that about Bonk III CD, but I thought those two were different?  Or is that actually wrong?

Where did you hear about the '93 releases? A lot of people assume they were released in '93 just by looking at the copyrights, but a handful of secondary insider sources have reported otherwise.

Again, I'm inclined to believe Jayamine's dates are correct and really did come from Steve Garwood. It's always wise to take self-proclaimed insider noobs and unauthorized spokesmen with a grain of salt, but Jayamine never struck me as an attention whore. He also possessed the very first TurboGrafx for a time, so he obviously had some kind of connections. Finally, his information is generally consistent with other reports we've heard over the years.

Besides Jayamine, there was another source who spoke of TTI handing off their handful of unreleased games to TZD and how TZD then spread them out for release over the course of 1994. I just spent half an hour looking for the post which had the info and the list of TZD exclusives and can't find it.

ParanoiaDragon confirms via TTI Secretary Eun Lopez that Bonk 3 SCD was a TZD exclusive here:
http://www.pcenginefx.com/forums/index.php?topic=4096.msg66104#msg66104

Other members reported buying Bonk 3 hucard off the shelf at EB, so we know the hucard version did make it into stores.

Geepee16 has some tangentially related information here:
http://www.pcenginefx.com/forums/index.php?topic=4096.msg66027#msg66027
IIRC, Geepee is the guy who first reported the bulldozer story and who claimed to have had dinner and friendships with Steve and/or other TTI guys. His print runs are higher than Jayamine later posted, but interesting.

[DragonmasterDan]

Judging by how low Clash's serial # is, I'd wager that Oct '89 was the first batch and the earliest manufacture date. I want to believe that the TGCD came out in '89, but we should probably bank on Dan's sources and a 1990 date unless we find supporting evidence. October also seems like a pretty tight turn around to get units from Japan onto store shelves in time for the holidays. Does anyone know when the Duo came out? I have two U.S. Duo's dated August and October '92; I'd guess that the August units were for the Holiday launch and the October units followed in '93...

Duo hit EBs and Babbages in early October 1992. Between the 5th and 11th. It might have shipped a few days earlier.

Anyway, here's a theory:
Maybe NEC was pushing for a TGCD release in '89, but it got delayed. This would explain why Fighting Street and Monster Lair were finished and copyrighted in '89 and CD-ROM's were being made, but we can't find evidence of a launch. Maybe manufacturing fell behind because the FCC demanded more shielding and a bigger case. Maybe they decided to wait for Ys Book I & II (CD is © '89, manual is © '90) because the would-be launch titles (FS and ML) weren't strong enough. Maybe the original cost was going to be even higher than $399 and they needed to bring the price down. Maybe NEC had some dumb CD+G agreement with Warner Bros. that held up production

I suspect something like this is the case. Even when the CD-ROM was available, most retailers besides Babbages, Electronics Boutique, Software Etc and Toys R us that carried Turbo stuff didn't carry it. I suspect the high cost and the limited shelf space for game consoles in most stores at the time made launching the system in 1989 a near impossibility.

Just on a side note, I'm not saying I'm 100% certain it didn't come out in 1989. I simply have no solid evidence to support that it did besides the fact that they were manufacturing them at that point.

[esteban]

BUMP because some folks might find this useful, or have evidence to suggest more precise info.

Yes, I can be hopeful. And naive.

[tg16manaic]

Hey guys, here's the product numbers for the games, as additional info to help
The higher numbers are the newer releases.

TGX 020001     Keith Courage In Alpha Zones
TGX 020002     Victory Run
TGX 020003     Legendary Axe
TGX 030004     Vigilante
TGX 020005     Alien Crush
TGX 030006     Dungeon Explorer
TGX 020007     World Class Baseball
TGX 020008     China Warrior
TGX 030009     Power Golf
TGX 030010     Blazing Lazers
TGX 040011     R Type
TGX 020012     Deep Blue
TGX 020013     Moto Roader
TGX 020014     JJ & Jeff
TGX 030015     Military Madness
TGX 020016     Dragon Spirit
TGX 020017     Fantasy Zone
TGX 020018     Galaga '90
TGX 020019     World Court Tennis
TGX 030020     Final Lap Twin
TGX 020021     Pac Land
TGX 040022     Ordyne
TGX 040025     Space Harrier
TGX 020026     Takin' It To The Hoop
TGX 020027     Cratermaze
TGX 030028     Bonk's Adventure
TGX 030029     Neutopia
TGX 030030     Cyber Core
TGX 010031     Boxy Boy
TGX 020033     King Of Casino
TGX 020034     Timeball
TGX 020035     Chew Man Fu
TGX 020036     Double Dungeons
TGX 040037     Bloody Wolf
TGX 030038     Devil's Crush
TGX 020039     Dragon's Curse
TGX 020040     Psychosis
TGX 040041     Splatterhouse
TGX 020042     Drop Off
TGX 020043     Super Volleyball
TGX 030044     Tiger Road
TGX 030045     Veigues Tactical Gladiator
TGX 030046     TV Sports Football
TGX 040047     Bravo Man
TGX 020048     Legendary Axe 2
TGX 030049     Battle Royale
TGX 040050     Ninja Spirit
TGX 040051     Aero Blasters
TGX 040052     Super Star Soldier
TGX 020053     Bomberman
TGX 040054     Yo Bro
TGX 040055     TV Sports Basketball
TGX 040056     Talespin
TGX 040058     Bonk's Revenge
TGX 030059     Ballistix
TGX 040060     Gunboat
TGX 040061     Davis Cup Tennis
TGX 040062     Impossamole
TGX 040063     Silent Debuggers
TGX 030064     TV Sports Hockey
TGX 040066     Darkwing Duck
TGX 040067     Falcon
TGX 040068     Andre Panza Kick Boxing
TGX 040069     Night Creatures
TGX 040072     Order Of The Griffon
TGX 060075     Raiden
TGX 040076     Ghost Manor
TGX 040077     Champions Forever Boxing
TGX 060078     Neutopia 2
TGX 040079     Jackie Chan's Action Kung Fu
TGX 040080     New Adventure Island
TGX 040081     Dead Moon
TGX 040082     Soldier Blade
TGX 040083     Legend Of Hero Tonma
TGX 040084     Air Zonk
TGX 040085     Samurai Ghost
TGX 040086     Magical Chase
TGX 040087     Shockman
TGX 040089     Somer Assault
TGX 040090     Time Cruise
TGX 040092     World Sports Competition
TGX 040093     Bomberman '93
TGX 030095     Hit The Ice
TGX 030096     Chase H.Q.
TGX 080097     Bonk 3: Bonk's Big Adventure
                       
ATGX 02JTTC   Jack Nicklaus Turbo Golf
ATGX 04TUTG  Turrican
TWG 030701   Parasol Stars
TWG 040501   Cadash
ITGX 10001     Sonic Spike
ITGX 10004     Tricky Kick
ITGX 10007     Sinistron
RTGX 10001    Sidearms
TTGX 20001     Klax

TGXCD 1001    Fighting Street
TGXCD 1002    Ys Book 1 & 2 (CD)
TGXCD 1002    Ys Book 1 & 2 (SCD)
TGXCD 1003    Monster Lair
TGXCD 1005    Magical Dinosaur Tour
TGXCD 1006    Valis 2
TGXCD 1007    Last Alert
TGXCD 1008    Final Zone 2
TGXCD 1010    It Came From The Desert
TGXCD 1011    Sherlock Holmes Consulting Detective
TGXCD 1012    J. B. Harold Murder Club
TGXCD 1013    Camp California
TGXCD 1014    Lords Of The Rising Sun
TGXCD 1015    Ys 3: Wanderers From Ys
TGXCD 1017    Loom
TGXCD 1018    Shadow Of The Beast
TGXCD 1019    Addams Family
TGXCD 1021    Shape Shifter
TGXCD 1024    Valis 3
TGXCD 1025    Splash Lake
TGXCD 1026    Gate Of Thunder
TGXCD 1027    Prince Of Persia
TGXCD 1029    Dragon Slayer: The Legend Of Heroes
TGXCD 1030    Forgotten Worlds
TGXCD 1031    Buster Bros.
TGXCD 1033    Lords Of Thunder
TGXCD 1034    Dungeon Explorer 2
TGXCD 1035    Riot Zone
TGXCD 1036    Sim Earth: The Living Planet
TGXCD 1038    Cotton
TGXCD 1039    Sherlock Holmes Consulting Detective Vol 2
TGXCD 1040    Syd Mead's Terra Forming
TGXCD 1041    Dungeon Master: Theron's Quest
TGXCD 1042    Super Air Zonk
TGXCD 1045    John Madden Duo CD Football
TGXCD 1047    Might & Magic 3: Isles Of Terra
TGXCD 1048    Beyond Shadowgate
TGXCD 1051    Godzilla
TGXCD 1052    Bonk 3: Bonk's Big Adventure
TGXCD 1053    Dynastic Hero

ATGXCD JTTC    Jack Nicklaus Turbo Golf
WTG 990101    Exile
WTG 990102    Exile: Wicked Phenomenon
WTG 990301    Cosmic Fantasy 2
WTG 990801    Vasteel

SRCR01           Local Girls Of Hawaii
SRCR02           Hawiian Island Girls
                  Bikini Girls
DUODEMO02   Lords of Thunder Demo Disc

[Jibbajaba]

Is there a concrete list of the games that were available at launch?  I'd like to do an episode of CGQ-TV covering the launch of the TG-16, but I want to be confident in the games that I'm covering, first.