I finally beat Raiden!

[PC Gaijin]

Ok, this might not be a huge accomplishment for some of you shooter fanatics, but I finally beat Raiden. I generally like shooters, but they're not my favorite genre and modern shooters (the "bullet hell" variety) just ain't my cup of tea. However, I love 16-bit shooters especially the ones on the Turbo. For some reason I've been on a shooter kick for the past week. Been playing a different one every night. Now I can take down Super Star Soldier, Final Soldier, Soldier Blade, Blazing Lazers, Gradius, Parodius, Side Arms easily enough (that's what I've been playing the past week ) but damned if Raiden didn't kick my ass, especially a couple of the bosses.

I used to play the hell out of this game "back in the day" but I'd always get frustrated and quit after getting to the boss in level 6 (or was it 7? Everything is running together in a blur now ). The level that had two tanks with the faces on top firing arcs of like six shots at once. That guy would just blow me away in the first two seconds of the fight. Well tonight I finally figured out how to beat him. I had a fully powered up blue laser and the homing missiles. Right at the start just before the tanks stop flashing and begin attacking, I'd drop a bomb. It would damage them slightly but the main thing the bomb does is absorb all their shots. So I'd use the bomb blast as "cover" and just keep concentrated fire on one of the "faces" on the lower tank. The first bomb was just enough for me to destroy one of the faces, then I had to dodge the shots from the other three faces and drop a second bomb to take out the other face on the lower tank. Once that one was gone (and thus the lower tank destroyed) it was pretty easy to dodge the fire from the upper tank and destroy it.

So I finally cleared this hurdle of...wait a minute, have I really had this game for almost fifteen years!? I reach the final level and woo....what a letdown The last level is pretty darn easy, as is the final boss. This guy is another tank running on tracks. As he chugs away up the screen he takes pot shots at you that are pretty easy to dodge. I just concentrated my fire on him taking out his shields (which regenerate) and barely moving to dodge his shots. When he reached the end of the tracks there was some kind of massive structure that he "plugged into" that looked like it would rain holy hell down on me, but I had never stopped firing on him and the whole thing blew up before he even got a shot off. I didn't even use a single bomb, ha.

Anyway, I'm looking forward to an awesome ending...or an ending of some kind even if it's just a credit roll. I get a "Mission Completed" and a 1,000,000 point bonus...then the game starts over at level 1. Doh! Does anyone know if there's any true ending to the game or does it just repeat like that? Oh well, I'm was too damn tired to try another run through (it took me almost an hour and a half to beat it the first time, pretty long for a shooter). Final score was 2,429,350 with 8 ships and 2 bombs in reserve.

[rolins]

Congrats, on beating Raiden. You really should give yourself pat on the back because Raiden is tough. If you think your skills are superb now then give Super Raiden a shot. It has two extra levels. Stage 10 being the hardest. I manage to beat it only once.

Anyway, I'm looking forward to an awesome ending...or an ending of some kind even if it's just a credit roll. I get a "Mission Completed" and a 1,000,000 point bonus...then the game starts over at level 1. Doh! Does anyone know if there's any true ending to the game or does it just repeat like that? Oh well, I'm was too damn tired to try another run through (it took me almost an hour and a half to beat it the first time, pretty long for a shooter). Final score was 2,429,350 with 8 ships and 2 bombs in reserve.

Yeah, there is no real ending for Raiden (hucard). Only Super Raiden (scd) has one. You can check out my post here to read about stage 9 + 10, and the ending.

http://pcenginefx.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=930&start=15&sid=9aaef041f8da3bbe131148f00678006b


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[esteban]

So I finally cleared this hurdle of...wait a minute, have I really had this game for almost fifteen years!?

I know! We're getting moldy in our old age. As I mentioned on Rolins thread, I still have to beat the HuCard. Then I'm moving on to the SCD (I already bought it). Raiden kicks my ass as well. It's pretty lame that the HuCard doesn't have a nice ending, but the fact that the SCD exists more than makes up for this. Sinistron is the only other shooter (North American) that I haven't beaten. Well, I've never beaten Deep Blue either

So, you two shooter fans should tackle Sinistron now. Using many continues, I've gotten to the last stage (even the last boss, IIRC). Sinistron is kool because even if you start out with a pea shooter on a level or check point (even the last level), you can dodge stuff strategically take out key targets and make it a lot further than you'd expect.

Nodtveidt says that the Japanese version of Sinistron, Violent Soldier, is actually even harder. Hah! I'm not gonna rush out and get that HuCard until I can beat Sinistron. Sinistron has its flaws, for sure, but it can grow on you. I still haven't developed a good stragety for the asteroid stage... and that hinders my enjoyment. 15 years ... and I still cringe when I think about the maze stage that follows the asteroid level (I think its stage 4). I don't want to figure out how to best navigate through the maze again.

[lkermel]

I have to congratulate you, this is an amazing  accomplishment  !!!

I finished it on an emulator with the save-state option (This is for my site, one of the game that'll be spoiled in the near future). Anyway, later stages are really tough and I am totally amazed that you finished it. Great Job !

And you're right, it is such a shame that the game just loops at the end... no credits... nothing... Has anyone ever finished Super Raiden ? Just to check if this is also the case for the CDRom version.

[rolins]

Has anyone ever finished Super Raiden ? Just to check if this is also the case for the CDRom version.

I've beaten Super Raiden. If you check the link I posted previously in this thread you can read the differences between the hucard and cd-rom version.

[PC Gaijin]

Wow, I didn't even notice that other thread. If I had I would have posted there instead of making a new one. :oops: Thanks for the info on Super Raiden rolins, I was going to ask for opinions about that game. The music in particular is why I am thinking about getting the CD. I guess because of the limited number of voices the Turbo can play at once sometimes sound effects "drop out" when things get intense. I figured moving all the music to CD and just using the Turbo's sound chip would improve that. Also, if anyone remembers playing the arcade version, the HuCard just doesn't have the same punch in the sound department. Still an awesome port, one of my favorites on the Turbo.

However, the two extra stages on Super Raiden sounds intriguing. As I said level 8 and the boss were kind of a letdown for me. I never made it that far in the arcade version, so does anyone know if the arcade game had 8 levels too? Are the Super Raiden level 9 and 10 something exclusive to that game or are they in the arcade game too? Just wondering how complete a port the HuCard is. And man if 9 and 10 are as tough as you say they are rolins....hmm, I don't know if I'm up for it haha.

One thing I forgot to mention is that I was using a TurboStick, and it actually helped a lot. Normally, I hardly ever use the TurboStick because I don't think it's a very good joystick, and I'm just too used to a control pad after all these years. However, when I started playing these shooters again I figured I'd try out the slow-mo on the TurboStick to see if it helped. Well it didn't (the slow-mo is pretty crappy), but I found that I had a lot easier time with shooters using a stick than a pad (easier on the thumb too!).

The only real complaints I have about Raiden are that your ship moves too slow (way too slow for how fast some of the enemy shots are), and like too many shooters if you die and lose your powerups late in the game you might as well start over. Other than that I love it.

stevek666, I can beat Sinistron I remember some of the stages were a real pain the rear. In the asteroid stage I always stayed as far to the right of the screen as I could. This helped me dodge those ships that try to ram you since when you're real close to them when they start moving a quick flip of the wrist will get you out of their way. For the maze level I also stayed as far to the right as I could so that if I saw I was heading into a dead end I could try to back out. Staying to the right was a pretty good strategy overall since it often let you destroy enemies before they could get a big burst of shots off at you. What I hated about the maze level was those little green mechs that would come up from behind and either jump up and kill you or drop down out of nowhere (too fast to dodge). Very frustrating level.

The final boss in Sinistron is cheap because there's a trick to beating him. The boss is a biomech thing nestled between two trunks (one on the floor and one on the ceiling) that spit out blue globes. The globes then burst and a swarm of about five or six red sperm-looking creatures (sorry, don't know how else to describe them) spiral around and home in on you. The problem is that if you are outside of the trunks you can only fire fast enough to destroy the blue globes, none of your shots will get through to the actual boss. To defeat him you have to have the two option ships. A fully powered up weapon speeds things up, but isn't necessary. When the boss scrolls into view immediately position yourself just inside the trunks. There's just enough room for you to fit in there so that the globes will come out behind your ship. The boss itself doesn't do anything but sit there. The globes will start coming out behind you and bursting. The red sperm things will then loop around from above and below homing into your ship. Your options will shield you from them though. So just fire away at the boss until he dies. Easy as pie, but still cheap. I kind of wanted a more white-knuckle final battle. At least you get an ending with Sinistron. Not much but better than Raiden.

lkermel I really like your site. Most game sites nowadays are so heavy and flashy (literally, I hate Flash). I miss the good old days of the net with simple HTML and fansites rather than commercial sites (most of which seemed to be owned by the same small handful of companies anyway). I especially enjoyed the HuCard article, it's great to find a fan site that isn't just a regurgitated version of info you can get in a zillion other places on the web (like all the sites that just spit out tech specs and a picture of a console and call it a day). If I can ever get off my lazy butt I've been planning a fansite of my own. There will be Turbo stuff there of course, but I really want to cover Atari 8-bit home computer games (800/XL/XE/XEGS), especially the cartridges. I have over a hundred Atari 8-bit carts, most complete with boxes and manuals. Would love to do writeups on some of those eventually. Yes, before I became a Turbo fanboy I was an Atari fanboy.

[rolins]

However, the two extra stages on Super Raiden sounds intriguing. As I said level 8 and the boss were kind of a letdown for me. I never made it that far in the arcade version, so does anyone know if the arcade game had 8 levels too? Are the Super Raiden level 9 and 10 something exclusive to that game or are they in the arcade game too? Just wondering how complete a port the HuCard is. And man if 9 and 10 are as tough as you say they are rolins....hmm, I don't know if I'm up for it haha.

Stage 9 isn't too bad, it's like every other level in the game. When you get to stage 10 don't blink because there's always one bullet that pass the corner of your eye. As for the Arcade version, I've never played it.

The only real complaints I have about Raiden are that your ship moves too slow (way too slow for how fast some of the enemy shots are), and like too many shooters if you die and lose your powerups late in the game you might as well start over. Other than that I love it.

I agree, this game is unforgiving like R-Type. If you die even once, forget about continuing. Just reset your duo and begin again from square one.

stevek666, I can beat Sinistron I remember some of the stages were a real pain the rear.

I haven't played Sinistron yet. I probably should check this game out to see how hard it is.

[nodtveidt]

Sinistron will kick your ass, but Violent Soldier will kick your ass across a country. Both are very hard games. They seem simple at first but until you get a grasp of how to play (it plays a bit differently than many shooters, a lot more strategy is involved), even the first level will beat you down hardcore. Infinite continues helps a lot though, and memorizing the attack patterns of the enemies REALLY helps. I've gotten so good at Sinistron now that I can clear the whole game without being hit once. Not such luck with Violent Soldier...even knowing the levels very well isn't enough...

The maze level (level 5) is a real nightmare. It's all about positioning and dealing with the little green monsters, as they pose the biggest threat (not the big ships, although they're a pain too). I use the regular shots with the ramming jaws half-open (works best fully powered up). Use the option to wipe out the green monsters above you, and keep the shots coming to wipe out the big ships and their homing missles. There's a couple of parts to really memorize, especially where the green monsters drop down from above you. The final stretch of the first half is a real nightmare and it's very hard to memorize the pattern so you just have to have very good reflexes to pass it. When you see the powerup ships, you've cleared the checkpoint and won't have to do that horrible first half again...the second half is far easier and you can easily memorize your way through it.

The first half of level 6 is the hardest level in the game and the hardest level I've ever seen in a shooter. The one in Sinistron is hard enough...the Violent Soldier version is enough to drive a person with methyphobia to drink Everclear...for Sinistron, you can skip it with the half-level sacrificial skip trick but this doesn't work in Violent Soldier...you gotta take it on no matter what. The second half is easier but positioning and memorization are everything.

For the final boss in Sinistron, I use the blue laser with the ramming jaws half-open and turbos on. Basically, my strategy is to get positioned to where I can shoot the blue things and still have shots hit the boss. The little critters that come out will circle around you and some of your shots will take them out. You have to be slightly higher than halfway up the screen or else your shots will all be dedicated to taking out the blue things...in the right position, you'll still wipe them out (a few critters will escape and circle, as stated before) but while the blue thing from below is ascending, you'll get two shots in against the boss. It takes about 50 hits to destroy it with the blue laser this way. This strategy also works with Violent Soldier, although the minibosses before the final boss are about twice as tough as in Sinistron.

[esteban]

PC Gaijin: Hah! I never thought of using the TurboStick. Maybe I'll give it a shot. I know that I preferred using the NES Advantage Stick when playing shooters on the NES. But the TurboStick is so light... I prefer something solid and "grounded", especially for precision manuevering (sp).

After reading your despcription of the final boss in Sinistron, I know that I definitely got to him. I continued many times on the last stage, starting with pea-shooter, so at least the game gives you a fighting chance (although I can't remember if I had any decent power-ups by the time I got to the final boss).

Nod, you're absolutely spot on about the maze level. I think I would drop down constantly (for the most part), making a "step" pattern. I can't believe I still remember this stuff. Ingrained in my gray cells, it seems.

[TR0N]

Congrats man try beating, Raiden II on the, PS1 and, Raiden III on the PS2

[PC Gaijin]

PC Gaijin: Hah! I never thought of using the TurboStick. Maybe I'll give it a shot. I know that I preferred using the NES Advantage Stick when playing shooters on the NES. But the TurboStick is so light... I prefer something solid and "grounded", especially for precision manuevering (sp).

Yeah, the TurboStick is too light and feels flimsy, which is why I normally don't use it much. But I definitely prefer sticks for shooters, and I don't have any other joystick for the Turbo.

I'd never played Violent Soldier before, in fact I didn't even know that was the Japanese version of Sinistron. So tonight I loaded up ME and went at it. First of all, save-states sure makes things a lot easier. Secondly, while Violent Soldier was definitely harder than Sinistron in a couple places, I didn't think it was that much harder.

The first few levels are identical to Sinistron as far as I can tell. For awhile there I was thinking, "what the heck was notdveidt talking about, this is exactly the same?" Then I got to the asteroid level. Goodness, Violent Soldier tosses a lot more asteroids and ships at you, and they're much more aggressive especially in surrounding you. That was a pretty big surprise, but oddly enough I made it all the way through without dying the first time. Something about being in new territory and not knowing what to expect just seems to enhance my senses and I was dodging all the "new" asteroids and ships fairly easily. Heh, I've noticed that before: whenever I first enter an area I'll often do much better than my next few attempts when I actually know what to expect. Anyway, after that the boss seemed to be faster too.

Then the final level: gah, those little green balls that fire the green shots in a circle made me want to put my foot thru the monitor. That's the only difference I can tell between Violent Soldier and Sinistron, but that one little change upped the difficulty considerably. Options saved the day though, I used them to destroy the green balls while keeping an eye on everything else on the screen.

Then I noticed the two sub-bosses before the final boss were sped up, so they were a little harder to kill. The final boss didn't seem to be any different than Sinistron, and the same trick I used in Sinistron worked here.

The ending in Violent Soldier is different though. After the screens showing you fighting your way through the game (which is the same) all Sinistron gives you is "Congratulations!" in the best NES game-over tradition, but Violent Soldier has a credit roll. What's up with the "come back summer vacation" part though? Were the programmers saying to the player "come back on your summer vacation and play again" or were they wishing for summer vacation after working on the game?

I think next I'll tackle Cybercore. Never played it very much because it always seemed like a second-string game...kind of like Sinistron. Not a bad game certainly, but not up the leagues of Super Star Soldier, Soldier Blade, etc. But then again it wasn't a bargain-basement turd like Deep Blue either.

Congrats man try beating, Raiden II on the, PS1 and, Raiden III on the PS2

I've thought about getting a JP PS2 for stuff like Raiden III...but I don't want to open those gates because then I'd buy a whole bunch of import PS2 games I don't have time to play. Maybe when FFXII releases I'll break down and get a JP PS2. I've been waiting for that game forever, might not be able to wait six months or more for a translation.

[esteban]

I don't have any other joystick for the Turbo.

You and the rest of North America .

Goodness, Violent Soldier tosses a lot more asteroids and ships at you, and they're much more aggressive especially in surrounding you.

Noooooooooooooo...

Heh, I've noticed that before: whenever I first enter an area I'll often do much better than my next few attempts when I actually know what to expect.

Yes, my "twitch" reflexes seem to be highly sensitive when I'm playing a new area as well... I think this is because I'm "in the zone" and the anticipation of "what's coming next?" has the adrenaline pumping. Once you get too familiar with an area, it is hard to get excited. In fact, sometimes I regress (i.e. I get a sense of dread when I get to the asteroid level, which certainly doesn't help my game).

The ending in Violent Soldier is different though. After the screens showing you fighting your way through the game (which is the same) all Sinistron gives you is "Congratulations!" in the best NES game-over tradition, but Violent Soldier has a credit roll. What's up with the "come back summer vacation" part though? Were the programmers saying to the player "come back on your summer vacation and play again" or were they wishing for summer vacation after working on the game?

Hey, does music play during the credits? Can you tell if it is a new tune, or is it simply recycled (I'm dorky and like to know stuff like that)? And I looked up the release date (December 1990) for Violent Soldier... which didn't provide and clues as to what that cryptic message means.

I think next I'll tackle Cybercore. Never played it very much because it always seemed like a second-string game...kind of like Sinistron. Not a bad game certainly, but not up the leagues of Super Star Soldier, Soldier Blade, etc. But then again it wasn't a bargain-basement turd like Deep Blue either.

I like Cybercore, but I think most shooter fans would dismiss it if they didn't give it a chance. When I first got it back in the day, I was disappointed because it seemed like a mediocre clone of Namco's shooters (the Xevious / Dragon Spirit formula: shoot the airborne enemies, bomb the land-based enemies).

But, starved for games on the TG-16, I eventually went back to it and started having fun. I love the music, even though the songs are comprised of really, really short loops.

The early bosses are totally weak. That sucks, because I think the game would be a lot better if all of the boss fights were tough from the beginning.  

Overall, if you like Dragon Spirt, then you'll like Cybercore. It took some practice before I could 1CC Cybercore, so it provided a decent challenge (for me, anyway). It is a forgiving game, like Sinistron, in the fact that when you die and respawn with a pea-shooter, you do have a fighting chance. I remember continuing on the last level and beating the game (although my ship felt really sluggish compared to some quick opponents you have to dodge).

I recently purchased the Japanese Cybercore HuCard (I should be getting it next week). Who knows? Maybe they dumbed down this game like they did for Sinistron? Both games were published by IGS, who also handled the North American releases, so I think there's a good chance they tinkered with the TG-16 version! If I had to guess, I'd say that they neutered some of the bosses for the TG-16 version (I hope so, anyway!). Realistically, though, I expect the games to be identical .

Congrats man try beating, Raiden II on the, PS1 and, Raiden III on the PS2

I've been playing Raiden II at the laundromat... It's as fun as the original. But I really wish they changed some of the aesthetics instead of recycling nearly everything from the first game. I like the gameplay formula, no need to change that, but I wanted to see radically different sprites and stages.

[nodtveidt]

Hey, does music play during the credits? Can you tell if it is a new tune, or is it simply recycled (I'm dorky and like to know stuff like that)?

The credit scroll music in Violent Soldier is the same as the end music in Sinistron. The only difference is that in Violent Soldier, the music eventually stops but in Sinistron, it loops infinitely.

[rolins]

I recently purchased the Japanese Cybercore HuCard (I should be getting it next week). Who knows? Maybe they dumbed down this game like they did for Sinistron? Both games were published by IGS, who also handled the North American releases, so I think there's a good chance they tinkered with the TG-16 version! If I had to guess, I'd say that they neutered some of the bosses for the TG-16 version (I hope so, anyway!). Realistically, though, I expect the games to be identical .

I haven't played Cybercore on the pce either, but if you thought it was a let down then should also try the X68000 version. I read its much more harder.

http://nfg.2y.net/sales/html/EEEpZApEZAswNrCFAU.html


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[Keranu]

Awesome, I had no idea there was a x86 version of Cyber Core! I thought that was a big time TG16 exclusive.