S-video mod schematic for the schematic illiterate (For TG-16/Duo etc)

[ProfessorProfessorson]

I went ahead and got off my lazy ass and did these since I figured it needed to be done for this thread to compare s-video against composite. There is some drawbacks to this though. For one, I do not have the capture card I used to have, nor the software I used to cap with, so I was limited to using my Geforce FX 5950 Vivo in and Windows movie maker. Anyone in the know as far as video capping is concerned is that it is near impossible to play games and cap video in Windows Movie Maker due to the lag and choppiness present in their software when capping from svideo and composite. Due to this I did not cap as wide a range of games, nor did I do any actual videos. Actual videos would have shown the degree to which the shimmering effect has been minimized, however I cant give you that. Also, my 5950 is not great where color is concerned, so you are not going to see much variation between color quality in these pics.

Saying all of that, I will go on record and state what I have stated prior, Pce/TG composite was never terrible to begin with. It was one of the best examples of composite done right on a game system, compared to the likes of the Genesis, Master System, or early AES, where composite was simply terrible. My only real complaint with the TG/PCE composite was the shimmering, which happens on most any system via composite anyway. Sharpness was fairly good as is, as was color. Regardless, what these pics will show you is the degree to which sharpness has been improved, and due to that, finer details are nicer looking. Don't try looking at the total picture, as that will probably make it harder to compare on these pics.

What I suggest is to focus on finer details, like the straight lines on the buildings on the background of Air Zonk, rocks on the bottom area of Keith Courage, or how nice and smooth the old mans staff is in Cadash, along with how smooth the status field looks in that game in S-video compared to composite. Or for that matter how much sharper the character portraits look on Cadash on character select (especially in the Fighters case). Basically just building on already great image quality composite provided for the system, S-video really just fixed what little problems are there a bit more. On a good crt, in motion, you will obviously notice more then what these pics provide. Sorry I could not get you any decent gameplay videos, just not possible with my current gear.

[Bernie]

I may catch shit for this....but I find it really hard to tell the difference... I just ain't seeing it.

[HercTNT]

no, your right bernie. just goes to show just how good the composite on the turbo really is. s-vid helps, but composite is very close. its not like the diff between the composite and s-vid on a genny. that will open your eyes.

[tpivette]

I may catch shit for this....but I find it really hard to tell the difference... I just ain't seeing it.

Glad I wasn't the only one thinking that...

I'd be willing to bet, though, when in motion the S-Video would be alot better. I've noticed alot of the "shimmering" effect with composite vs the lack of with S-Video

[ProfessorProfessorson]

Like I said, sharpness is improved by a degree. The shimmering for me was always the major issue. The sharpness thing is more of a nit picking thing, and you really have to have a good eye and notice certain things to see the difference some times depending on the display being used. It also helps if your tv by chance somehow managed terrible composite in but good svideo in, as more flaws will be noticeable. Only issue with this is you are viewing these grabs from caps, so the whole sdtv crt/scanline factor has been taken away, making it harder to spot differences. As stated prior, ymmv anyway. You will be less likely to notice a improvement on your LCD between the two then compared to a CRT too.

If this helps you spot some differences, here you go:

[roflmao]

While I haven't seen the TG16/PCE in S-Video I have seen the difference using the Genesis, Saturn, PS1 & 2 with composite and s-video and the difference is very noticeable.  Especially in motion.

[SignOfZeta]

Video capture cards are a pretty useless gauge of video quality, IMHO. In this case it seems to be doing a great job of presenting the composite at least, usually you get the opposite. Usually everything looks crap. Often times they are wired internally to combine Y/C anyway. Sometimes they have awesome 3D comb filters superior to what's probably in your TV. Then there is all the hardware compression they do which ends up giving you new artifacts not present in the signal, or artificially cleaning it up. Either way, a capture card puts its own unique twist on the signal.

[ProfessorProfessorson]

Video capture cards are a pretty useless gauge of video quality, IMHO. In this case it seems to be doing a great job of presenting the composite at least, usually you get the opposite. Usually everything looks crap. Often times they are wired internally to combine Y/C anyway. Sometimes they have awesome 3D comb filters superior to what's probably in your TV. Then there is all the hardware compression they do which ends up giving you new artifacts not present in the signal, or artificially cleaning it up. Either way, a capture card puts its own unique twist on the signal.

Yeah I agree. The prior card I used to use, a Gainward Golden Sample Ti4200, with InterVideo WinCoder, was a lot better for this sort of task. There was no lag when capping vids, and it did not try to clean up composite at all, as found here:



Unfortunately the FX 5950 I have does more clean up on the composite lines image quality then the Ti 4200 did, which is great for people who wanted a quality clean up job when capping video from vcr's, laserdisc,  etc. But it's bad for using it when doing a compare like this because it trumps up the signal quality more then the average tv probably would on the composite line . It makes me feel a bit foolish for selling my old Gainward.

[Keith Courage]

S-Video looks way better in person. I have a S-video modded DUO-R and in many games I have switched from Composite to S-Video back and forth to see the change and the difference is like night and day depending on the game. Some games the difference is minimal but on others it's just amazing. I am playing through Blood Gear right now and I have to say that S-Video tromps standard composite.

[ProfessorProfessorson]

Yeah, like I said, my 5950 cap card is doing some cleanup on the composite line, which is also partly why I get lag when I record video with it via composite in. Its very likely more often then not that hardly anyone's TV here will have a composite image looking as nice as it did in the pics above, though I image some people with really really good monitors can get fairly close, with the same, or better color quality. High quality still shots, and seeing stuff in motion on a traditional crt though, is another issue all together. Active movement in the image would expose more weakness in the composite quality that the still shots alone are not going to show, and I wish I could present that, but I cant play the games with the degree of lag that is present on that setup.

[thesteve]

that is why i prefer live shots of actual monitors/TV's
i have always found cap cards to add excessive blur/filtering

[ProfessorProfessorson]

Live shots are fine if you can actually see what the pic is showing. You need to be using a decent camera to do those types of shots and get really good results though. I even have issues getting good shots with my camera on a CRT due to glare and crap. To be honest with like with the shots you posted, I honestly have a hard time telling whats what on screen because it looks bad. If I have to choose between something like cellphone or iphone pics, and screen caps on a capture card, I am going to choose the cap card every time.

[NightWolve]

Even if component can look better the fact still remains that this S-video mod is easy to do. Where as for someone who hasn't done much soldering the component mod schematic could look like an alien language and end up taking much much much more time to complete. So for those looking for an easy Video upgrade S-video is the way to go.

Oh sure, there was never any "Don't do the S-Video mod in favor of Component only" message here (It was do both and it's worth it!) and of course the S-Video mod alone is naturally far easier. You can see from my Turbo Duo's case, I aim to do both simultaneously and I have some ideas I wanna try on how to best tweak the Luma and Chroma although there are pros/cons to it all as discussed earlier.

(There's a little story behind the female S-Video jack that you see above... I was billed $10 for it total from http://www.markertek.com/ and this happened because I assumed the shipping would be reasonable, but they don't tell you what the charge will be until they're ready to ship... Disgusted, I sent a nasty email to their support desk and they wound up completely refunding the shipping charge to me, so I only paid the $1.50 for it... The fun didn't end after I received it, though. It didn't include the locking nut, even though it's clearly shown in the picture, so I had to improvise and make my own which required using a hack saw and my bench grinder... It uses metric threading of size 13mm and I could only find a nut for plumbing applications that would work, I shopped around several places before making my own... Anyway... Heh-heh! I never bought anything from them again suffice to say...)

Given your point about difficulty though, eventually steve and BlueBMW are gonna be manufacturing an amp PCB for RGB, YPbPr, and *I think* S-Video as well. A PCEFX Jrok equivalent but just meant for NEC systems and without some $50+ price tag. Thus, for us seasoned DIY folks that want a little electrical engineering challenge on the side, we can go ahead and build it ourselves, but those with less skills/confidence/time can buy a custom, ready-to-go board for a reasonable price where you'd just have to solder wires up properly to the 6260 video chip and elsewhere, along with deciding on jack placement or going with DIN, etc.

that is why i prefer live shots of actual monitors/TV's
i have always found cap cards to add excessive blur/filtering

It's kind of funny... Steve can learn how to come up with a S-Video circuit, a YPbPr circuit, an RGB amp, a 3.5" LCD Mod for the Turbo Express, strategically placing a few caps around a video chip to eliminate jail bars, and all sorts of repairs of hardware both electrical and mechanical, etc... BUT, what he can't learn to do or come up with is how to take some decent screenshots, let alone organize them in a useful fashion for the viewer... Heh-heh! Just messin' with ya.

[esteban]

It's kind of funny... Steve can learn how to come up with a S-Video circuit, a YPbPr circuit, an RGB amp, a 3.5" LCD Mod for the Turbo Express, strategically placing a few caps around a video chip to eliminate jail bars, and all sorts of repairs of hardware both electrical and mechanical, etc... BUT, what he can't learn to do or come up with is how to take some decent screenshots, let alone organize them in a useful fashion for the viewer... Heh-heh! Just messin' with ya.

Hahahhahahhaaha. Seriously. He does amazing things but when he documents his accomplishments, it looks like a broken flip phone circa 1998 took the pictures.

I feel bad for even joking about the extreme discrepancy between his contributions and his photos.

[jamisonia]

Dvds being outputted in normal play via component, with the video in motion, not running a THX or similar calibration test , using still images for that matter, no you would not see much a difference as compared to an analog out, non-progress scan component signal on a jrok encoder, when running a arcade game boards calibration test. There is a big difference there between the two, and that is where the quality issues were shown.

Its not being rude, its stating a fact. You having issues accepting that, let alone accepting the fact that a shitty crt tube and shitty circuitry, is not going to compete with a solid built set, regardless of the shity one offering component over the better ones s-video out, is not my problem, nor anyone else here. And trying to clog up this thread with your imaginary issues and inability to tell the difference between a bad tv and a good one, that is being a jack ass.

No one here is saying component itself in general is worse then svideo quality wise. Its not. It is superior signal wise. What matters however is the total quality of the sum of the parts used. Its the same thing as having a thousand dollar surround THX receiver and slapping it with a 50 dollar set of used generic no name speakers, versus a solid Pioneer Stereo receiver with two solid Dynaudio speakers. The other guy may have 5.1, but who f*cking cares, because it sounds like 5.1 out of a few tin cans due to the weakest link being the speakers. The same applies to the crt being used. If it is a shitty crt, it is going to be your weakest link in the chain, and therefore your end picture quality is going to suck, regardless of the shitty crt offering component, all it is doing is giving you a worse representation of a otherwise solid signal.

And that worse representation of said signal, being component, is then not going to stand a chance against the best representation of s-video, which is a quality signal just a notch below it for that matter. This also applies to the mod itself. If the component mod is not yet up to snuff, then the end quality is still not going to compete with, nor surpass, the svideo mod that is. As stated before, and now I am basically sounding like a broken record, if you don't understand why all of this is the fact of the matter, then you are a lost cause.

Also, stating REAR of the jack, everyone else seems to know what it meant but you. I mean come on, 5 pages later and the only guy complaining and accusing someone of lying is the one guy who dropped me a pm talking about how he and others argue on the other forum he is on, and is fishing for some back talk about Drakon, who no one else gives a flying f*ck about? Seriously? 

Also, in what world does a svideo jack have anything to do with a TurboDuo din plug? They are separate entities, and each were labeled accordingly. Just because you can invent some complaints does not make them valid, and seriously, if you cant READ the words on the schematic, then probably just as well you should not be on the net, since you obviously cant read or type then, correct? Implying someone as being schematic illiterate is a bit different then just implying they are illiterate, which I did not do. Are you some global representative for The Derek Zoolander School for Kids Who Can't Read Good and Want to Do Other Stuff Good Too or something?

Seriously, stop trying to clog up this thread with bullshit already. It is not warranted, wanted, nor appreciated by anyone here who actually knows wtf they are doing, let alone in general.

You clearly don't understand how video works.  Pick up a copy of Digital Video Essentials and educate yourself.