Author Topic: S-video mod schematic for the schematic illiterate (For TG-16/Duo etc)  (Read 4359 times)

ApolloBoy

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Re: S-video mod schematic for the schematic illiterate (For TG-16/Duo etc)
« Reply #90 on: January 27, 2013, 07:42:16 PM »
You clearly don't understand how video works.  Pick up a copy of Digital Video Essentials and educate yourself. 
So Mike makes a nice detailed post and that's all you have to say? OK...
Quote from: Arkhan
it makes me laugh because people are like I REMEMBER PLAYIN THAT BACK IN THE DAY, MAN THAT WAS FUN.

and then I go "yeah I remember playing that 2 days ago because I still have my SNES, retard"

SignOfZeta

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Re: S-video mod schematic for the schematic illiterate (For TG-16/Duo etc)
« Reply #91 on: January 27, 2013, 07:43:06 PM »
DIGITAL Video Essentials? Isn't this a calibration disc? Much education could possible be contained there? And regardless, this isn't digital video we are taking about.

Next he'll be talking about how we are all tools for not understanding that the HDMI mod clearly trumps the YPBPR ones...

jamisonia

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Re: S-video mod schematic for the schematic illiterate (For TG-16/Duo etc)
« Reply #92 on: January 28, 2013, 04:25:45 AM »
You clearly don't understand how video works.  Pick up a copy of Digital Video Essentials and educate yourself.  
So Mike makes a nice detailed post and that's all you have to say? OK...

There was nothing else I felt like saying after he insisted on flaming me with this bullshit, bullshit bullshit.  If he wants to maintain that s-video can be superior to YPbPr on the same set, that demonstrates of lack of understanding about video.  Additionally I see no reason for him to flame me over mentioning that the S-video jack pin markings were inconsistent the DIN port markings right below it, and how that is not conducive to a post made specifically for those who can't read schematics.  Correct or not is one thing, but to flame me for mentioning it. 

Yes Digital Video Essentials, in addition to being a calibration disc is a very detailed explanation of how video and TV works.  It goes into great details about analog signals as well.  Although Video Essentials goes into greater detail about analog (being that it was for LaserDisc).  In fact all this education is people's #1 complaint about DVE.  They just want to calibrate their sets, they don't want to know how or why it works, and exactly what they're doing.  Popping in DVE forces you to watch about 30 minutes at least on the difference video standards, how TVs work, and the history of TVs before you get to calibration.  If you watch all three Video Essentials discs, Video Essentials, Digital Video Essential, and DVE HD Basics, you'll get a pretty good handle on how video was worked for the inception of TV through today.  If you just want to calibrate get Disney's WoW Disc.    

In unrelated news, and I'm sure this will be of great despair to you all, I am done with this community. 
« Last Edit: January 28, 2013, 04:28:56 AM by jamisonia »

SignOfZeta

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Re: S-video mod schematic for the schematic illiterate (For TG-16/Duo etc)
« Reply #93 on: January 28, 2013, 05:23:13 AM »
I have Video Essentials, the LD. It's pretty useful, but it isn't exactly educational and it doesn't go into much detail at all about analog signals. I agree it is too long winded though.

The point, anyway, is that Y/C can indeed be superior to YPBPR on the same set in certain circumstances. In other circumstances composite can be better than Y/C. This is absolutely positively true. Mike is a gigantic a$$hole but he's absolutely correct in this matter and you maybe need to go back to working at Best Buy to repeat the home theater sales floor crash course you flunked out of.

Bernie

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Re: S-video mod schematic for the schematic illiterate (For TG-16/Duo etc)
« Reply #94 on: January 28, 2013, 05:33:21 AM »
You clearly don't understand how video works.  Pick up a copy of Digital Video Essentials and educate yourself. 
So Mike makes a nice detailed post and that's all you have to say? OK...


In unrelated news, and I'm sure this will be of great despair to you all, I am done with this community. 

Dont let the door hit you in the ass on the way out....  :)  Have a nice day.

ProfessorProfessorson

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Re: S-video mod schematic for the schematic illiterate (For TG-16/Duo etc)
« Reply #95 on: January 28, 2013, 07:34:17 AM »
Because f*ck all, so enjoy the lulz:
http://www.pcenginefx.com/forums/index.php?topic=14060.msg280766#new

Anyway, if I can track down a copy of the old software I used to use for capping game play, I will make some composite/s-video compare videos to update this thread.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2013, 07:52:58 AM by ProfessorProfessorson »

HercTNT

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Re: S-video mod schematic for the schematic illiterate (For TG-16/Duo etc)
« Reply #96 on: January 28, 2013, 09:06:27 AM »
Jamisonia, ahh yes, a true breakfast cereal if i ever saw one. Fruits, nuts, and flakes. Noob jumps into the forums and immediatly stirs the shit by crapping on mike, ignores everyone else's statements, then claims he was doing it in self defense. Just one more troll looking for 15 minutes of forum fame. Now he's gonna take his football and go home, leaving us empty handed with no ball to play with. Guess he showed us...............

ProfessorProfessorson

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Re: S-video mod schematic for the schematic illiterate (For TG-16/Duo etc)
« Reply #97 on: January 28, 2013, 09:09:32 AM »
Not exactly empty handed, I got a video out of it. :P

HercTNT

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Re: S-video mod schematic for the schematic illiterate (For TG-16/Duo etc)
« Reply #98 on: January 28, 2013, 09:10:18 AM »
 :clap:

Sensato Black Lion

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Re: S-video mod schematic for the schematic illiterate (For TG-16/Duo etc)
« Reply #99 on: March 05, 2013, 01:23:19 AM »
Back on the original topic, has anyone compared this newer s-video mod with the CXA1645 one?

I made a screenshot comparison page based on the CXA mod some time ago if anyone is interested: http://quebecgamers.com/sensato/Workshop/PCE_svid.htm

I took my screenshots with some ATI All-In-Wonder capture card from an old PC I don't have anymore.

The difference between svideo and composite seems bigger to me with these screenshots (based on the CXA1645 svideo mod) than with the newer mod but I will have to try the newer mod to see how it really does.

I almost pray that the output from the new mod is of similar quality than with the CXA mod because the new mod is simply MUCH easier to perform.

SNKNostalgia

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Re: S-video mod schematic for the schematic illiterate (For TG-16/Duo etc)
« Reply #100 on: March 05, 2013, 11:46:22 AM »
Back on the original topic, has anyone compared this newer s-video mod with the CXA1645 one?

I made a screenshot comparison page based on the CXA mod some time ago if anyone is interested: http://quebecgamers.com/sensato/Workshop/PCE_svid.htm

I took my screenshots with some ATI All-In-Wonder capture card from an old PC I don't have anymore.

The difference between svideo and composite seems bigger to me with these screenshots (based on the CXA1645 svideo mod) than with the newer mod but I will have to try the newer mod to see how it really does.

I almost pray that the output from the new mod is of similar quality than with the CXA mod because the new mod is simply MUCH easier to perform.


My Duo originally had the even better CXA 2075 S-video mod, which looked just a bit better than CXA 1645 from what I could tell. Now I have it with the newer S-video mod in the same Duo... which I added while I sent it off for a cap replacement after my attempt that went wrong.

I can tell you for sure, it is definitely better. First of all, even the pics you posted show it very well; the colors are more accurate and has a brighter picture more like you see in the original composite video, but much more vibrant and sharp. So you get the right colors and the brighter picture as intended. The new S-Video mod along with some caps added also gets rid of any jail bars and the subtle RF-like interference.

I say remove any CXA based S-Video mods and replace it with the new one.

roflmao

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Re: S-video mod schematic for the schematic illiterate (For TG-16/Duo etc)
« Reply #101 on: March 05, 2013, 12:03:49 PM »
Back on the original topic, has anyone compared this newer s-video mod with the CXA1645 one?

I made a screenshot comparison page based on the CXA mod some time ago if anyone is interested: http://quebecgamers.com/sensato/Workshop/PCE_svid.htm

I took my screenshots with some ATI All-In-Wonder capture card from an old PC I don't have anymore.

The difference between svideo and composite seems bigger to me with these screenshots (based on the CXA1645 svideo mod) than with the newer mod but I will have to try the newer mod to see how it really does.

I almost pray that the output from the new mod is of similar quality than with the CXA mod because the new mod is simply MUCH easier to perform.


That's a great comparison, Sensato.  I don't think my composite looks that bad, but when I record it to DVD it ends up blurrier than what I see on the TV.  S-video looks sooo much sharper, though.  I'm really tempted to try this out.

Sensato Black Lion

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Re: S-video mod schematic for the schematic illiterate (For TG-16/Duo etc)
« Reply #102 on: March 05, 2013, 01:48:31 PM »

My Duo originally had the even better CXA 2075 S-video mod, which looked just a bit better than CXA 1645 from what I could tell. Now I have it with the newer S-video mod in the same Duo... which I added while I sent it off for a cap replacement after my attempt that went wrong.

I can tell you for sure, it is definitely better. First of all, even the pics you posted show it very well; the colors are more accurate and has a brighter picture more like you see in the original composite video, but much more vibrant and sharp. So you get the right colors and the brighter picture as intended. The new S-Video mod along with some caps added also gets rid of any jail bars and the subtle RF-like interference.

I say remove any CXA based S-Video mods and replace it with the new one.

Good to have some opinions on that.

Something bugs me a bit though. Aren't the right colors are supposed to be the ones you get with RGB? S-video should be closer to RGB than composite, no? I mean composite colors might be the ones we are used to, but are they really the right colors?

This might already have been talked about earlier in the topic but since the chroma from the new svideo mod actually comes from a filtered composite video, I have a bit of a hard time understanding how they can be better than with the CXA mod.

New Svid colors: RGB to composite to chroma
CXA svid colors: RGB to chroma

I might not be as simple as that...

I have to agree that the CXA mod makes things a bit darker than they should be and that the jailbars can be annoying.

I will definitely do a side by side comparison very soon.


That's a great comparison, Sensato.  I don't think my composite looks that bad, but when I record it to DVD it ends up blurrier than what I see on the TV.  S-video looks sooo much sharper, though.  I'm really tempted to try this out.

Yeah, the screen caps from that page are a bit off compared to what they look like on your TV. It's unfortunately like that for ll my screenshots comparison pages.

Sensato Black Lion

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Re: S-video mod schematic for the schematic illiterate (For TG-16/Duo etc)
« Reply #103 on: March 06, 2013, 01:20:17 AM »
I did a quick test earlier this morning and I must admit that I'm impressed with the "new mod".

I have some major color bleeding for now though but I blame the old .001 uf cap I used. The bleeding I have does not appear in screencaps seen in previous posts from other members.

There is VERY little chances that I'll ever spend 3-4 hours building another CXA1645 svideo circuit for the PCE...

Props to everyone who contributed to this mod!




« Last Edit: March 07, 2013, 03:33:18 PM by Sensato Black Lion »

NightWolve

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Re: S-video mod schematic for the schematic illiterate (For TG-16/Duo etc)
« Reply #104 on: March 06, 2013, 05:11:00 AM »
Something bugs me a bit though. Aren't the right colors are supposed to be the ones you get with RGB? S-video should be closer to RGB than composite, no? I mean composite colors might be the ones we are used to, but are they really the right colors?


Bonknuts talked about this somewhere; essentially, the RGB pins from the Hu6260 video encoder chip haven't gone through some kind of colorspace adjustment that occurs internally. So actually, the raw RGB is technically kind of wrong colorspace-wise versus the Luma/Y that the same chip produces internally and outputs via pin 40 (this applies to the Chroma as well). Search his account if you want details.

There is VERY little chances that I'll ever spend 3-4 hours building another CXA1645 svideo circuit for the PCE...


Yeah, unnecessary for numerous reasons, the one above and the obvious one as far as how easy and cheap this is! Some foreign chip is never going to match the properly produced/mixed Luma/Y that the Hu6260 chip was already producing. What happened is it appears that technical people discovered the RGB+Sync pins first and the Luma/Y pin was discovered much later... So that's why the early mods required some foreign chip and hooking it up to the RGB+Sync lines. Luma/Y is produced by mixing RGB+Sync, 4 signals, and it's far more likely that Hudson engineers did a better job of mixing it properly than what some foreign chip can do by starting over, etc.

Still, there are more tweaks possible. You can get a pure/perfect Chroma by disconnecting the Luma/Y from the internal amplifier instead of using a filter capacitor - go a couple of pages back on this thread, I already talked about it. That's if you're willing to do that and restore Composite support by alternate means. The other thing is that the S8050 or 2n3904 transistors aren't the best way to amplify a video signal... There are chips that do a better job than a transistor and give you different/better results like the NJM2267 chip for example. Refer to ConHuevos here who used my SNES Component amp circuit which I designed around the S8050. He built that first, but then bought the NJM2267 and built a far more complex circuit just for purely amplification purposes here (NOT mixing). It's visibly better than the result with the S8050 transistor (which is equivalent to the 2n3904).

Anyhow, the simple point is you're dealing with a natively produced Luma/Y signal here and all you need is a good way to amplify it; going as far as getting another chip to mix it from raw RGB+Sync is never going to be as good and it might even introduce incompatibility problems as well (because of the Sync mixing and amplifying!!)... But on the other hand, when it comes to amplifying, these chips will tend to be better than generic transistors, etc. Overall, this transistor-based S-Video circuit is very cheap and very easy, so most people will be able to do it themselves and that outweighs most other factors. If you're a perfectionist like me though, you'll wanna go further. ;)

http://quebecgamers.com/sensato/Workshop/PCE_svid.htm


Great job on this BTW; a Javascript mouseover to switch between the S-Video shot and back was a good idea. My Turbo Duo Composite was pretty shitty I always thought, I think your shots capture it, even though it's with a capture card.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2014, 12:09:00 PM by NightWolve »