Author Topic: S-video mod schematic for the schematic illiterate (For TG-16/Duo etc)  (Read 4701 times)

Duo_R

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Re: S-video mod schematic for the schematic illiterate (For TG-16/Duo etc)
« Reply #60 on: January 20, 2013, 03:08:32 PM »
yeah you just need the right socket that solders up nicely to the board. I found one on ebay that works.
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ApolloBoy

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Re: S-video mod schematic for the schematic illiterate (For TG-16/Duo etc)
« Reply #61 on: January 20, 2013, 07:19:41 PM »
If you have a white PCE you can just ditch the useless OEM RF socket completely and replace it with a 4 pin mini DIN.
That's what I did with mine and Black Tiger's PCEs. It's a very clean solution and you don't have to drill any extra holes which is really nice.
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it makes me laugh because people are like I REMEMBER PLAYIN THAT BACK IN THE DAY, MAN THAT WAS FUN.

and then I go "yeah I remember playing that 2 days ago because I still have my SNES, retard"

NightWolve

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Re: S-video mod schematic for the schematic illiterate (For TG-16/Duo etc)
« Reply #62 on: January 23, 2013, 07:26:00 PM »
I prefer S-video myself since I still like to do all of my gaming on a CRT TV. I hate playing games on a flat screen. I can't stand seeing the picture all streched out or a square in the center with black all around it. So for those of us who prefer CRT gaming S-video is still a great option.


Sounds like you missed out on a CRT with YPbPr inputs then! I've got a 32" Panasonic with three S-Video jacks and one YPbPr Component, although I modded it and added another set of jacks on the right side for convenience since I'm doing a lot of testing and plugging cables in & out frequently enough (only one set of jacks works at a time, obviously - I bought so many of these, I had to do something with them.).

Nice thing is, a 240p Luma signal is guaranteed to work with a CRT and the picture is just plain lovely; the shimmering effects when scrolling are mostly eliminated (not completely, but better than S-Video), the colors are more solid and there's less interference (wavy lines, etc.). It's not raw analog RGB, but it's pretty close from my understanding. I finished the SNES Component mod and I'm still so impressed by the difference (This is the amplifier circuit I built with steve's favorite transistors)!



Anyway, no reason you can't do both mods, right? ;)

ProfessorProfessorson

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Re: S-video mod schematic for the schematic illiterate (For TG-16/Duo etc)
« Reply #63 on: January 23, 2013, 11:56:46 PM »
People seem to forget the old saying YMMV at times like these. Just having an component option does not automatically make it superior across the board for everyone. Different tv sets will offer different quality on their inputs. What works great for one in component may not do as well for another via the same option. I personally have two CRT sets, both supporting composite and svideo, and one supporting component in also. The one without component support, its svideo in is totally superior to the others component in, simply due to it being a better tv, so I wont even bother using anything on the other one other then cable tv, xbox, and GC. Others may have similar issues like myself, or simply no set that supports component in at all CRT wise. They could also run into issues like what my mom's old crt used to experience, with her component in being a tad, just a tad, worse then her svideo in. Something that wasn't easy to spot when watching dvds but was noticeable when connected to a jrok encoder and doing some game testing.

At any rate, please try to stay on topic on this one and keep the component mod discussion and info on the component thread. If the component mod is finalized and actually on par with svideo now, or superior, in both color and sharpness or quality, then some actual quality screen grabs or video capture needs to be done now, for one, to show its been finalized, and two, to compare against the s-video mod (no moar cell phone pics, damn you Steve!). The component thread needs to be updated with that info, and a final schematic if it has not yet (sorry, I dont read that thread really, so have no idea if you guys have done this yet or not). Nice gold plated jacks btw Nightwolve. I used to use them on my supergun kits. They hold up well.

NightWolve

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Re: S-video mod schematic for the schematic illiterate (For TG-16/Duo etc)
« Reply #64 on: January 24, 2013, 01:05:11 AM »
People seem to forget the old saying YMMV at times like these. Just having an component option does not automatically make it superior across the board for everyone. Different tv sets will offer different quality on their inputs. What works great for one in component may not do as well for another via the same option. I personally have two CRT sets, both supporting composite and svideo, and one supporting component in also. The one without component support, its svideo in is totally superior to the others component in, simply due to it being a better tv, so I wont even bother using anything on the other one other then cable tv, xbox, and GC. Others may have similar issues like myself, or simply no set that supports component in at all CRT wise. They could also run into issues like what my mom's old crt used to experience, with her component in being a tad, just a tad, worse then her svideo in. Something that wasn't easy to spot when watching dvds but was noticeable when connected to a jrok encoder and doing some game testing.

I hear ya, and I don't doubt this at all, but I think in principle or say in general, you ought to be able to get better picture quality with YPbPr Component because then it becomes counter-intuitive, that is to say, why would the industry bother to adopt the YPbPr standard as the successor to S-Video if you *generally* couldn't get a better result, etc. ? But yeah, based on what I've heard over time, I'm not gonna say in every case you get a better result, but there's certainly a good chance that you will and that's only ever been my experience. Anyway, with steve's cheap circuit, we can have both options as mentioned! :) Some creativity is needed for using the limited real estate of the Duo for jack placement though, but yeah...

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At any rate, please try to stay on topic on this one and keep the component mod discussion and info on the component thread.

I wouldn't have thought the tangent to be too off or unwanted, but sure.

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If the component mod is finalized and actually on par with svideo now, or superior, in both color and sharpness or quality, then some actual quality screen grabs or video capture needs to be done now, for one, to show its been finalized, and two, to compare against the s-video mod (no moar cell phone pics, damn you Steve!). The component thread needs to be updated with that info, and a final schematic if it has not yet (sorry, I dont read that thread really, so have no idea if you guys have done this yet or not).

Oh yeah, it'll happen. Goes without saying. I believe he feels the circuit is purty final (it works for the customer), but would like backup verification by others (me, Blue and anyone else) to build it off the schematic before proceeding with further plans to manufacture pre-made boards. Not something you wanna rush of course, and everyone works in their own time and mood, etc. (P.S. steve, I wouldn't wait on me, I'm distracted by other things lately so I dunno when I'll get to it).

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Nice gold plated jacks btw Nightwolve. I used to use them on my supergun kits. They hold up well.

Yeah, got a local store (American Science'n'Surplus) that sells them for $1 (all 3 jacks on a wall plate)! Of course, they only come in standard yellow, white and red so I had to improvise and use green and blue nail polish to get proper Component coloring... ;) The green polish is strong, but blue came with glitter which requires more care or you'll nick it off unfortunately... I'm just being cheap, is all - you can buy them online with proper coloring obviously. The other thing though, I wish my drilling had gone a bit better for it, but good enough I guess... =\
« Last Edit: January 24, 2013, 03:14:37 PM by NightWolve »

jamisonia

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Re: S-video mod schematic for the schematic illiterate (For TG-16/Duo etc)
« Reply #65 on: January 24, 2013, 04:19:12 AM »
People seem to forget the old saying YMMV at times like these. Just having an component option does not automatically make it superior across the board for everyone. Different tv sets will offer different quality on their inputs. What works great for one in component may not do as well for another via the same option. I personally have two CRT sets, both supporting composite and svideo, and one supporting component in also. The one without component support, its svideo in is totally superior to the others component in, simply due to it being a better tv, so I wont even bother using anything on the other one other then cable tv, xbox, and GC. Others may have similar issues like myself, or simply no set that supports component in at all CRT wise. They could also run into issues like what my mom's old crt used to experience, with her component in being a tad, just a tad, worse then her svideo in. Something that wasn't easy to spot when watching dvds but was noticeable when connected to a jrok encoder and doing some game testing.

At any rate, please try to stay on topic on this one and keep the component mod discussion and info on the component thread. If the component mod is finalized and actually on par with svideo now, or superior, in both color and sharpness or quality, then some actual quality screen grabs or video capture needs to be done now, for one, to show its been finalized, and two, to compare against the s-video mod (no moar cell phone pics, damn you Steve!). The component thread needs to be updated with that info, and a final schematic if it has not yet (sorry, I dont read that thread really, so have no idea if you guys have done this yet or not). Nice gold plated jacks btw Nightwolve. I used to use them on my supergun kits. They hold up well.



This is simply not true.  If the source material originates in RGB the quality of the output will be RGB > YPbPr > S-Video > Composite > RF.  This rules are hard and fast and always apply, if the material is stored in a component format. It should be stated that YPbPr and RGB are closer to how the actual source material looks, it may not look better.  Better may be a matter of opinion.  It will look more accurate to the source material.  You can argue whether this is "better" nor not.  People argue using s-video isn't better because it destroys video trick the developers relied on back in those days.    


I'd also like to make note that the s-video inputs are labeled incorrectly in the first post.  When looking at a female s-video port, as the picture depicts, Luma is going into the right top in (pin 3), and Chroma goes into the left top pin (pin 4).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S-Video 
« Last Edit: January 24, 2013, 04:22:25 AM by jamisonia »

HercTNT

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Re: S-video mod schematic for the schematic illiterate (For TG-16/Duo etc)
« Reply #66 on: January 24, 2013, 05:41:40 AM »
Not sure what video trick you refferring to, but many people here have s-vid modded turbo's. I have an s-vid modded turbo and genesis and the improved visual quality is not subjective. S-vid is clearly superior to composite in any good screenshot anywhere on the web or here your going to find it. Take an s-vid modded and composite genny side by side and tell me the s-video is debatable (i'm sure you will) :roll:

ProfessorProfessorson

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Re: S-video mod schematic for the schematic illiterate (For TG-16/Duo etc)
« Reply #67 on: January 24, 2013, 06:02:42 AM »
People seem to forget the old saying YMMV at times like these. Just having an component option does not automatically make it superior across the board for everyone. Different tv sets will offer different quality on their inputs. What works great for one in component may not do as well for another via the same option. I personally have two CRT sets, both supporting composite and svideo, and one supporting component in also. The one without component support, its svideo in is totally superior to the others component in, simply due to it being a better tv, so I wont even bother using anything on the other one other then cable tv, xbox, and GC. Others may have similar issues like myself, or simply no set that supports component in at all CRT wise. They could also run into issues like what my mom's old crt used to experience, with her component in being a tad, just a tad, worse then her svideo in. Something that wasn't easy to spot when watching dvds but was noticeable when connected to a jrok encoder and doing some game testing.

At any rate, please try to stay on topic on this one and keep the component mod discussion and info on the component thread. If the component mod is finalized and actually on par with svideo now, or superior, in both color and sharpness or quality, then some actual quality screen grabs or video capture needs to be done now, for one, to show its been finalized, and two, to compare against the s-video mod (no moar cell phone pics, damn you Steve!). The component thread needs to be updated with that info, and a final schematic if it has not yet (sorry, I dont read that thread really, so have no idea if you guys have done this yet or not). Nice gold plated jacks btw Nightwolve. I used to use them on my supergun kits. They hold up well.



This is simply not true.  If the source material originates in RGB the quality of the output will be RGB > YPbPr > S-Video > Composite > RF.  This rules are hard and fast and always apply, if the material is stored in a component format. It should be stated that YPbPr and RGB are closer to how the actual source material looks, it may not look better.  Better may be a matter of opinion.  It will look more accurate to the source material.  You can argue whether this is "better" nor not.  People argue using s-video isn't better because it destroys video trick the developers relied on back in those days.    


I'd also like to make note that the s-video inputs are labeled incorrectly in the first post.  When looking at a female s-video port, as the picture depicts, Luma is going into the right top in (pin 3), and Chroma goes into the left top pin (pin 4).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S-Video  


This is under the assumption of one: the component mod is working 100 percent up to snuff, and two: you have a great set. Just because the TV offers component does not suddenly make it a awesome set, nor does it mean the manufacture implemented component well. CRT's are not created equal. Quality will vary among them, among the inputs and the TV's using them depending on how great the manufacturer did of a job putting the set together. I'm sorry you think its a lie, but I have been in the game long enough to speak from vast experience concerning the matter. If you have a hard time understanding why or how a great built crt using a Panasonic or other quality tube using s-video can beat a shitty Emerson with god awful inner working and a terrible no name crt tube from China, then I'm sorry, I cant help you. You are a lost cause.


As for the s-video soldering info, evidently you don't understand what "REAR" of the jack means, as the schematic clearly states. It means solder side, as in, not the front of the jack that you plug the svideo cable into. Again, if you don't understand what this means, then sorry, I cant help you. If it makes you feel better though, you can burn a effigy of me or something and shout a few curses my way.




« Last Edit: January 24, 2013, 06:23:16 AM by ProfessorProfessorson »

jamisonia

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Re: S-video mod schematic for the schematic illiterate (For TG-16/Duo etc)
« Reply #68 on: January 25, 2013, 01:54:13 AM »
As for the s-video soldering info, evidently you don't understand what "REAR" of the jack means, as the schematic clearly states.

So this isn't the s-video schematic for the illiterate then?  It requires reading.  To be honest I just simply looked at the picture, and noticed something didn't look right.   

I think you can see my point though.  The picture shows you looking at the female socket end of an s-video plug.  Additionally its inconsistent with the Turbo's DIN plug you show right below it.  I'm not sure why you're being a jackass about it.  I think you can see that there should be some consistency, especially if this is supposed to be for those that can't read schematics.   

Insofar as the YPbPr goes, you really believe that the circuit used to implement on YPbPr on cheap TVs is inferior to the circuit used to separate the C into its separate colors from the Y/C input?  By you own admission DVDs still looked better.  DVDs are a far superior test source. 


thesteve

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Re: S-video mod schematic for the schematic illiterate (For TG-16/Duo etc)
« Reply #69 on: January 25, 2013, 04:08:13 AM »
as i see it S-Vid is the prefered output for the PCE/Turbo, as it does it native.

thesteve

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Re: S-video mod schematic for the schematic illiterate (For TG-16/Duo etc)
« Reply #70 on: January 25, 2013, 04:10:21 AM »
composite
S-Vid
note the color bleed on composite (same TV)

Keith Courage

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Re: S-video mod schematic for the schematic illiterate (For TG-16/Duo etc)
« Reply #71 on: January 25, 2013, 06:46:47 AM »
Even if component can look better the fact still remains that this S-video mod is easy to do. Where as for someone who hasn't done much soldering the component mod schematic could look like an alien language and end up taking much much much more time to complete. So for those looking for an easy Video upgrade S-video is the way to go.

jamisonia

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Re: S-video mod schematic for the schematic illiterate (For TG-16/Duo etc)
« Reply #72 on: January 25, 2013, 07:01:05 AM »
Even if component can look better the fact still remains that this S-video mod is easy to do. Where as for someone who hasn't done much soldering the component mod schematic could look like an alien language and end up taking much much much more time to complete. So for those looking for an easy Video upgrade S-video is the way to go.

Given, but to say some TVs work with Y/C signals better than they work with YPbPr signals makes no sense.  No matter what the signals are divided into Red, Green, and Blue Signals.  The more separated the signals are to begin with the more accurate reproduction.  However, given that YPbPr doesn't actually contain the green color signal, I will admit that YPbPr will look "greener" compared to composite and Y/C.  Obviously straight RGB is still the best.  (Not in the case of BDs and DVDs though)   

ProfessorProfessorson

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Re: S-video mod schematic for the schematic illiterate (For TG-16/Duo etc)
« Reply #73 on: January 25, 2013, 09:00:38 AM »
As for the s-video soldering info, evidently you don't understand what "REAR" of the jack means, as the schematic clearly states.

So this isn't the s-video schematic for the illiterate then?  It requires reading.  To be honest I just simply looked at the picture, and noticed something didn't look right.  

I think you can see my point though.  The picture shows you looking at the female socket end of an s-video plug.  Additionally its inconsistent with the Turbo's DIN plug you show right below it.  I'm not sure why you're being a jackass about it.  I think you can see that there should be some consistency, especially if this is supposed to be for those that can't read schematics.    

Insofar as the YPbPr goes, you really believe that the circuit used to implement on YPbPr on cheap TVs is inferior to the circuit used to separate the C into its separate colors from the Y/C input?  By you own admission DVDs still looked better.  DVDs are a far superior test source.  




Dvds being outputted in normal play via component, with the video in motion, not running a THX or similar calibration test , using still images for that matter, no you would not see much a difference as compared to an analog out, non-progress scan component signal on a jrok encoder, when running a arcade game boards calibration test. There is a big difference there between the two, and that is where the quality issues were shown.

Its not being rude, its stating a fact. You having issues accepting that, let alone accepting the fact that a shitty crt tube and shitty circuitry, is not going to compete with a solid built set, regardless of the shity one offering component over the better ones s-video out, is not my problem, nor anyone else here. And trying to clog up this thread with your imaginary issues and inability to tell the difference between a bad tv and a good one, that is being a jack ass.

No one here is saying component itself in general is worse then svideo quality wise. Its not. It is superior signal wise. What matters however is the total quality of the sum of the parts used. Its the same thing as having a thousand dollar surround THX receiver and slapping it with a 50 dollar set of used generic no name speakers, versus a solid Pioneer Stereo receiver with two solid Dynaudio speakers. The other guy may have 5.1, but who f*cking cares, because it sounds like 5.1 out of a few tin cans due to the weakest link being the speakers. The same applies to the crt being used. If it is a shitty crt, it is going to be your weakest link in the chain, and therefore your end picture quality is going to suck, regardless of the shitty crt offering component, all it is doing is giving you a worse representation of a otherwise solid signal.

And that worse representation of said signal, being component, is then not going to stand a chance against the best representation of s-video, which is a quality signal just a notch below it for that matter. This also applies to the mod itself. If the component mod is not yet up to snuff, then the end quality is still not going to compete with, nor surpass, the svideo mod that is. As stated before, and now I am basically sounding like a broken record, if you don't understand why all of this is the fact of the matter, then you are a lost cause.

Also, stating REAR of the jack, everyone else seems to know what it meant but you. I mean come on, 5 pages later and the only guy complaining and accusing someone of lying is the one guy who dropped me a pm talking about how he and others argue on the other forum he is on, and is fishing for some back talk about Drakon, who no one else gives a flying f*ck about? Seriously?  

Also, in what world does a svideo jack have anything to do with a TurboDuo din plug? They are separate entities, and each were labeled accordingly. Just because you can invent some complaints does not make them valid, and seriously, if you cant READ the words on the schematic, then probably just as well you should not be on the net, since you obviously cant read or type then, correct? Implying someone as being schematic illiterate is a bit different then just implying they are illiterate, which I did not do. Are you some global representative for The Derek Zoolander School for Kids Who Can't Read Good and Want to Do Other Stuff Good Too or something?

Seriously, stop trying to clog up this thread with bullshit already. It is not warranted, wanted, nor appreciated by anyone here who actually knows wtf they are doing, let alone in general.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2013, 09:03:16 AM by ProfessorProfessorson »

SignOfZeta

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Re: S-video mod schematic for the schematic illiterate (For TG-16/Duo etc)
« Reply #74 on: January 25, 2013, 11:59:43 AM »
Even if component can look better the fact still remains that this S-video mod is easy to do. Where as for someone who hasn't done much soldering the component mod schematic could look like an alien language and end up taking much much much more time to complete. So for those looking for an easy Video upgrade S-video is the way to go.

Given, but to say some TVs work with Y/C signals better than they work with YPbPr signals makes no sense.  No matter what the signals are divided into Red, Green, and Blue Signals.  The more separated the signals are to begin with the more accurate reproduction.  However, given that YPbPr doesn't actually contain the green color signal, I will admit that YPbPr will look "greener" compared to composite and Y/C.  Obviously straight RGB is still the best.  (Not in the case of BDs and DVDs though)   

I think you are underestimating how shitty a TV can be, and encoders as well.

I installed a JROK in my CMVS and I'm telling you there is zero improvement over s-video. Yeah, there SHOULD be, but there isn't. This is probably because the JROK has a so-so component transcoder, and also because my Sony XBR960 has a f*cking wicked bunch of super high tech circuitry in it. I'm not sure, I just know that the encoder was kind of a waste of money. I should have just used the standard JROK.

It might make a bigger difference on my pro JVC since it has no comb filters or anything, being a reference monitor. I've never tried it though. 

The point is: things vary a lot from set to set, and anyone bothering to go through this process probably has a nice Sony or JVC from the golden era of CRT and the PCE is going to look amazing on it with this very mod.